pv9y@vax5.cit.cornell.edu (07/31/90)
Does anyone know what the deal is with After Dark 2.0? They have an ad
in one of the magazines about it, but other than that there has been
no news at all. Hopefully it will be another updater posted to the net
when it does come out. And lots more modules would be really nice!
Adam
--
Adam C. Engst pv9y@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"I ain't worried and I ain't scurried and I'm having a good time"
-Paul Simon bruce@sim.uucp (Bruce Burkhalter) (08/02/90)
In article <4923.26b55905@vax5.cit.cornell.edu> pv9y@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes: >Does anyone know what the deal is with After Dark 2.0? They have an ad >in one of the magazines about it, but other than that there has been >no news at all. Hopefully it will be another updater posted to the net >when it does come out. And lots more modules would be really nice! > >Adam > >-- >Adam C. Engst pv9y@vax5.cit.cornell.edu >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >"I ain't worried and I ain't scurried and I'm having a good time" > -Paul Simon To: pasteur!helios.ee.lbl.gov!ucsd!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!rochester!cornell!vax8530!pv9y Subject: Re: After Dark 2.0 - any news? Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system In-Reply-To: <4923.26b55905@vax5.cit.cornell.edu> Organization: University of California, Berkeley Cc: Bcc: In article <4923.26b55905@vax5.cit.cornell.edu> you write: >Does anyone know what the deal is with After Dark 2.0? They have an ad >in one of the magazines about it, but other than that there has been >no news at all. Hopefully it will be another updater posted to the net >when it does come out. And lots more modules would be really nice! > >Adam > >-- >Adam C. Engst pv9y@vax5.cit.cornell.edu I will post the offical press release but here is a rundown of After Dark 2.0. After Dark 2.0 is ready! It is a brand new version of the program, not an update. The new version is pretty slick (but then again I helped write it! :) ). There are several new modules and many of the old modules have new features. After Dark 2.0 also has sound. There is thunder with the lightning. Worms munch your screen. Puzzle makes a neat clicking noise as the pieces move. A new feature is SystemIQ. When SystemIQ is active After Dark will monitor CPU, disk, and modem/printer port activity. If After Dark senses that the Mac is busy, it will not go to sleep. If After Dark is already asleep, it will throtle back its animation to give the Mac more time. After Dark 2.0 is now aware of "Notification Manager" events such as Print Monitor alerts and the arrival of electronic mail. If After Dark is asleep and Apple menu starts to flash, After Dark will wake up. If the Apple menu is still flashing when After Dark goes back to sleep, it will scroll a message across the top of the screen with the icon that is flashing in the Apple menu. Password protection has been enhanced. After Dark 2.0 now has automatic password sleep and password protection across reboot. All of the modules have online help. Just click in the credits area and it will expand to show info and help about the module. Here are some of the new modules: Fish!: Fish! is the After Dark version of Fish! cdev by Tom & Ed's Bogus software. The fish are large, in full color, and look just like real fish. Flying Toasters: Just what it sounds like. :) Toasters with wings chase toast across the screen. No, there is not a gas leak in our building. :) Satori: Fascinating color waves, patterns, and rays fill your screen and animate. Written by Ben Haller author of Solarian II. MultiModule: Allows you to run different modules at the same time anywhere on the screen. Sort of a screen saver construction kit. Put a different module in each corner of the screen and run them simultaneously. Run modules on top of each other. Put Puzzle on top of Can of Worms for an interesting effect. Endless possibilities! Lots of other stuff but I am tired of typing. If you have any questions feel free to ask. Bruce Burkhalter After Dark Product Manager Berkeley Systems, Inc.
walkerb@turing.cs.rpi.edu (Bob Walker) (08/02/90)
In article <4923.26b55905@vax5.cit.cornell.edu> pv9y@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes: >Does anyone know what the deal is with After Dark 2.0? They have an ad >in one of the magazines about it, but other than that there has been >no news at all. Hopefully it will be another updater posted to the net >when it does come out. And lots more modules would be really nice! I called Berkeley Systems yesterday, and was told that registered users would receive an announcement in the mail in mid-to-late August, and I should wait until then. I guess that means that it may be ready, but you can't buy it for another few weeks... - bob
bruce@sim.uucp (Bruce Burkhalter) (08/03/90)
In article <Z~7$7M+@rpi.edu> walkerb@turing.cs.rpi.edu (Bob Walker) writes: <In article <4923.26b55905@vax5.cit.cornell.edu> pv9y@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes: <>Does anyone know what the deal is with After Dark 2.0? They have an ad <>in one of the magazines about it, but other than that there has been <>no news at all. Hopefully it will be another updater posted to the net <>when it does come out. And lots more modules would be really nice! < <I called Berkeley Systems yesterday, and was told that registered users <would receive an announcement in the mail in mid-to-late August, and I <should wait until then. < <I guess that means that it may be ready, but you can't buy it for <another few weeks... < < - bob Yeah things have been pretty crazy, finishing up After Dark 2.0, setting up for MacWorld, going to MacWorld, etc. Unfortunately we don't have as many people as Microsoft (yet!), so it will take a little longer to get the upgrade stuff going. Hope you can hold on for a couple of weeks! If you have any questions, feel free to ask. Bruce Burkhalter After Dark Guy Berkeley Systems, Inc.
smith@coral.bucknell.edu (Greg Smith) (08/03/90)
In article <26716@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, bruce@sim.uucp (Bruce Burkhalter) writes: > <I called Berkeley Systems yesterday, and was told that registered users > <would receive an announcement in the mail in mid-to-late August, and I > <should wait until then. > < > <I guess that means that it may be ready, but you can't buy it for > <another few weeks... > < > < - bob > > > Yeah things have been pretty crazy, finishing up After Dark 2.0, > setting up for MacWorld, going to MacWorld, etc. Unfortunately > we don't have as many people as Microsoft (yet!), so it will take > a little longer to get the upgrade stuff going. Hope you can hold > on for a couple of weeks! If you have any questions, feel free to > ask. I recently purchased a tape drive for my Mac. With that drive, I received the After Dark starter kit. There didn't appear to be any way for me to become a registered user, although the kit did include a form for me to order the After Dark programming kit, extra modules, etc. for ~$14.95. Is there some way for me to get After Dark 2.0 without spending the $14.95 for that programming kit and an additional $5.00 for an upgrade after that? I really like After Dark, but I don't want to spend another $20 on something that just came with my tape drive. Please mail me any responses in addition to posting; I'm going on vacation, and my news site will have expired your responses by the time I get back next week. > Bruce Burkhalter > After Dark Guy > Berkeley Systems, Inc. Greg Smith Finder Sounds Fall Guy +----------------------------+------------------------------------+ | Gregory J. Smith | Internet: smith@bucknell.edu | | Systems Analyst/Postmaster | smith@coral.bucknell.edu | | Bucknell Computer Services | BITNET: smith@bucknell.bitnet | | Bucknell University | smith@bknlvms.bitnet | | Lewisburg, PA 17837 | AT&Tnet: (717) 524-1801 | +----------------------------+------------------------------------+
isle@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Ken Hancock) (08/04/90)
In article <1990Aug3.102021.2770@coral.bucknell.edu> smith@coral.bucknell.edu (Greg Smith) writes: > >I recently purchased a tape drive for my Mac. With that drive, I received the >After Dark starter kit. There didn't appear to be any way for me to become a >registered user, although the kit did include a form for me to order the After >Dark programming kit, extra modules, etc. for ~$14.95. Is there some way for >me to get After Dark 2.0 without spending the $14.95 for that programming kit >and an additional $5.00 for an upgrade after that? I can do this story one better.... A friend of mine had a pirate copy of After Dark running on his computer. I saw it, really liked it, so I ordered a copy from MacConnection for $22. Now I'm going to have to pay $15 (70% of purchase price) for version 2.0. So, now I'm getting to pay $37 for the same package that will still cost $22 from MacConnection. I sometimes have to wonder why I'm honest in the first place.... Adobe is doing the same thing with Adobe Type Manager 2.0. $20 for twice the speed for 1.2 -- that's not the 70% of the purchase price, but still about 50%. Because I've decided to support a company and a new product from the beginning, I'm the one who's going to get to pay... I don't mind paying upgrades for products that are significantly better, but if the company that makes them doesn't think the new version is good enough to warrant a price raise, then why am I getting charge more? Ken -- Ken Hancock | This account needs a new home in MA... Isle Systems | Can you provide a link for it? isle@eleazar.dartmouth.edu | It doesn't bite... :-)
dorner@pequod.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Dorner) (08/04/90)
In article <23497@dartvax.Dartmouth.EDU> isle@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Ken Hancock) writes: >Now I'm going to have to pay $15 (70% of purchase price) for version 2.0. >So, now I'm getting to pay $37 for the same package that will still cost >$22 from MacConnection. Except that you've been using it in the meantime, which is worth something. I also suspect that $15 is getting close to break-even for distributing a disk and a small manual. Those of us with published commercial software probably could tell us for sure. -- Steve Dorner, U of Illinois Computing Services Office Internet: s-dorner@uiuc.edu UUCP: {convex,uunet}!uiucuxc!dorner
chuq@Apple.COM (Spot, the Wonder Dog) (08/04/90)
isle@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Ken Hancock) writes: >A friend of mine had a pirate copy of After Dark running on his computer. >I saw it, really liked it, so I ordered a copy from MacConnection for $22. >Now I'm going to have to pay $15 (70% of purchase price) for version 2.0. >So, now I'm getting to pay $37 for the same package that will still cost >$22 from MacConnection. I sometimes have to wonder why I'm honest in the >first place.... Well, you're honest because it helps you sleep better at night. Your honest because it's the honest people that make sure a company gets enough money to survive long enough to release 2.0 -- and making sure they get enough money to convince them it's worth doing 2.0. There's a strong fallacy in your argument -- You're assigning a value of $0 for your ability to have the product. You're saying "I can buy it now for $22 and buy the new release later for $15, or I can buy the new release later new for $22" -- what is the *value* of having it for the period between "now" and "later"? If it's zero, then why are you bothering to use the product? Remember, you're USING the product while waiting for the upgrade. That use is returning some of the value that you paid for it. Sure, you could have waited. But what would that have cost you elsewhere? -- Chuq Von Rospach <+> chuq@apple.com <+> [This is myself speaking] It's a small world, after all! It's a small world, after all! It's a small world, after all! It's a small, small world!
bruce@sim.uucp (Bruce Burkhalter) (08/04/90)
In article <23497@dartvax.Dartmouth.EDU> isle@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Ken Hancock) writes: > >I can do this story one better.... > >A friend of mine had a pirate copy of After Dark running on his computer. >I saw it, really liked it, so I ordered a copy from MacConnection for $22. >Now I'm going to have to pay $15 (70% of purchase price) for version 2.0. >So, now I'm getting to pay $37 for the same package that will still cost >$22 from MacConnection. I sometimes have to wonder why I'm honest in the >first place.... > >Adobe is doing the same thing with Adobe Type Manager 2.0. >$20 for twice the speed for 1.2 -- that's not the 70% of the purchase >price, but still about 50%. Because I've decided to support a >company and a new product from the beginning, I'm the one who's >going to get to pay... > >I don't mind paying upgrades for products that are significantly >better, but if the company that makes them doesn't think the new >version is good enough to warrant a price raise, then why am I >getting charge more? > >Ken > > > >-- >Ken Hancock | This account needs a new home in MA... >Isle Systems | Can you provide a link for it? >isle@eleazar.dartmouth.edu | It doesn't bite... :-) Ken - I understand what you are saying. We are in a difficult position. We can't raise the list price because we will price ourselves out of the market. Believe me, we think the new version is "good enough" to deserve a raise in price. We have put *a lot* of work into After Dark 2.0 but we can't base the price on that. We have to base it on the competition and what people will pay for this type of program (i.e. utilities). The other problem is the upgrade price. If we make the upgrade price any lower we are virtually giving it away to all registered users. It costs a couple of bucks just to mail it. On the other hand, some may feel the upgrade price is too high with respect to the list price. While After Dark 2.0 is an "upgrade", I think it is a little different. For the most part, After Dark is a collection of modules. In After Dark 2.0, we have added over 10 new modules and greatly enhanced several "old" ones. If we were to sell a disk with only new modules, I think $15 would be a fair price. After Dark 2.0 has lots of new modules and a program that has several new features all for $15. I think that is a lot of stuff for $15. You make a good point about upgrade price with respect to price paid. One thing I think you should look at is how much money is actually being spent. If I bought Word 4.0 for $400 and the upgrade was $300 I would be pretty steamed mainly because that is lot of money. Even though the $15 upgrade price for After Dark may seem high becasue you paid $22 (which is nearly half the $40 list price), it is still not a large amount of money. I would hope most people could afford a $15 upgrade regardless of what they originally paid for the program. While this does not necessarily "justify" the price, I think it is a point to consider when you look at the upgrade price ratio. One other point, which I think is important, is the use you get out of a program. I use Suitcase, Boomerang, and init/cdev everyday several times a day. The "price/performance" ratio is very high. These relatively inexpensive programs really help me get my work done. I hope After Dark falls into that catagory. There are very few applications that I use day in and day out. While I need a drawing program, I don't use it a whole lot. I spent a couple hundred bucks for something I don't use a lot. When looking at the upgrade price for After Dark 2.0, please consider the points I have presented. I glad that you bought After Dark 1.0 and like it. I know there are a ton of pirated copies and it is easy to just get a copy from a friend. I really respect people who resist that temptation. All I can say is to try After Dark 2.0. I hope you feel it is worth the $15 upgrade. If you don't, I can respect that opinion and hope you will continue to enjoy After Dark 1.0. Bruce Burkhalter After Dark Guy Berkeley Systems, Inc.
pv9y@vax5.cit.cornell.edu (08/04/90)
I must also say that I respect a company that will offer complimentary copies of such software to qualified consultant/reseller types. I received a complimentary copy and a number of people have purchased After Dark after seeing my copy or seeing the demos of it that I've done with that free copy. I don't work for a big store or anything like that - I'm an independent consultant, but consultants can do a lot when given a chance by good companies. As an aside, an article in MacWEEK said that Berkeley Systems was awarded the 1990 Computerworld Smithsonian Award for Business and Related Services for their outSPOKEN product, which help visually impaired and learning disabled people to use a Mac. Bruce, please accept my congratulations and convey them to your co-workers. And see you at Macworld! Adam Engst, TidBITS editor In article <26740@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, bruce@sim.uucp (Bruce Burkhalter) writes: > When looking at the upgrade price for After Dark 2.0, please > consider the points I have presented. I glad that you bought > After Dark 1.0 and like it. I know there are a ton of pirated > copies and it is easy to just get a copy from a friend. I really > respect people who resist that temptation. > > Bruce Burkhalter > After Dark Guy > Berkeley Systems, Inc. -- Adam C. Engst pv9y@vax5.cit.cornell.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "I ain't worried and I ain't scurried and I'm having a good time" -Paul Simon
hideg@spsd3260a.erim.org (Steve Hideg (Mr. Fabulous)) (08/06/90)
In article <23497@dartvax.Dartmouth.EDU> isle@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Ken Hancock) writes: > A friend of mine had a pirate copy of After Dark running on his computer. > I saw it, really liked it, so I ordered a copy from MacConnection for $22. > Now I'm going to have to pay $15 (70% of purchase price) for version 2.0. > So, now I'm getting to pay $37 for the same package that will still cost > $22 from MacConnection. I sometimes have to wonder why I'm honest in the > first place.... I called MacConnection last Friday (Aug 6) to order AfterDark 2.0. The lady on the phone told me to call back Wednesday to order 2.0 (I guess it was released this weekend) so I wouldn't get an older version. I suppose it's all a matter of timing... ____________________________________ Steve Hideg (N8HSC) hideg@spsd3260a.erim.org
Adam.Frix@cmhgate.FIDONET.ORG (Adam Frix) (08/10/90)
> Bruce Burkhalter writes: > > >A friend of mine had a pirate copy of After Dark running on his computer. > >I saw it, really liked it, so I ordered a copy from MacConnection for $22. > >Now I'm going to have to pay $15 (70% of purchase price) for version 2.0. > >So, now I'm getting to pay $37 for the same package that will still cost > >$22 from MacConnection. I sometimes have to wonder why I'm honest in the > >first place.... > > > >Adobe is doing the same thing with Adobe Type Manager 2.0. > >$20 for twice the speed for 1.2 -- that's not the 70% of the purchase > >price, but still about 50%. Because I've decided to support a > >company and a new product from the beginning, I'm the one who's > >going to get to pay... > > > >I don't mind paying upgrades for products that are significantly > >better, but if the company that makes them doesn't think the new > >version is good enough to warrant a price raise, then why am I > >getting charge more? > > > >Ken > > The other problem is the upgrade price. If we make the upgrade price > any lower we are virtually giving it away to all registered users. > It costs a couple of bucks just to mail it. > On the other hand, some may feel the upgrade price is too high > with respect to the list price. Bruce, please note that Microseeds Publishing (sellers of Redux, Rival, and INITPicker) have a standard offer concerning upgrades: if you want a fresh manual and everything, the upgrade costs $10. If you only need the program itself, the upgrade is FREE. That's right, they'll send you a disk, no package, no manuals, but WITH THE UPGRADE, absolutely FREE. And this isn't restricted to minor updates. INITPicker 2.0, which is an entirely different beastie from 1.0, with many major additions, features, etc., falls under this very policy. Got any other arguments? --Adam-- * Origin: See above (1:226/200.2) -- Adam Frix via cmhGate - Net 226 fido<=>uucp gateway Col, OH UUCP: ...!osu-cis!n8emr!cmhgate!Adam.Frix INET: Adam.Frix@cmhgate.FIDONET.ORG
ephraim@think.com (Ephraim Vishniac) (08/10/90)
In article <26740@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> bruce@sim.UUCP (Bruce Burkhalter) writes: > All I can say is to try After Dark 2.0. I hope you feel it is > worth the $15 upgrade. If you don't, I can respect that opinion > and hope you will continue to enjoy After Dark 1.0. I saw After Dark 2.0 (plus Bruce, Patrick, and some great T-shirts) at MacWorld on Wednesday. It is bizarre that you can buy After Dark 2.0 new for $19 at MacConnection's booth (show special, normally $22) while the upgrade is $15, but I agree with Bruce that 2.0 is worth it. It's worth that much for the flying toasters alone! Seriously, it has amazing new features. You can lay out different modules to use specified areas of the screen, overlapping or not. You can make modules "transparent" so that overlaps look better. You can adjust the darkness of the toast :-). There's sound, but I think it's misplaced in a screen saver. The t-shirts, on the other hand, are seriously overpriced at $12. GatorMail t-shirts were free! I bought one anyway, because I just had to have a shirt that shows the 51st toaster squadron swarming out of the sky "on a mission to save your screen." Fortunately, I work in a place where t-shirts are a major art form. -- Ephraim Vishniac ephraim@think.com ThinkingCorp@applelink.apple.com Thinking Machines Corporation / 245 First Street / Cambridge, MA 02142 One of the flaws in the anarchic bopper society was the ease with which such crazed rumors could spread.
isle@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Ken Hancock) (08/12/90)
In article <65285.26C3A4B8@cmhgate.FIDONET.ORG> Adam.Frix@cmhgate.FIDONET.ORG (Adam Frix) writes: > >Bruce, please note that Microseeds Publishing (sellers of Redux, Rival, and >INITPicker) have a standard offer concerning upgrades: if you want a fresh >manual and everything, the upgrade costs $10. If you only need the program >itself, the upgrade is FREE. That's right, they'll send you a disk, no package, >no manuals, but WITH THE UPGRADE, absolutely FREE. And this isn't restricted >to minor updates. INITPicker 2.0, which is an entirely different beastie from >1.0, with many major additions, features, etc., falls under this very policy. Well, despite all my bitching and moaning about upgrade prices, I did purchase a new copy of After Dark 2.0 at the Expo. I was disappointed that upgrades wouldn't be shipping for two weeks, but since I had bought a color monitor (yeah, I'm worse than broke now...) I couldn't wait two weeks... I also bought two AD T-shirts. Hey, what can I say...it's a great product... Ken -- Ken Hancock | This account needs a new home in MA... Isle Systems | Can you provide a link for it? isle@eleazar.dartmouth.edu | It doesn't bite... :-)