[comp.sys.mac.system] Network Backup / Exabyte drives

sherer@oucmail.cc.nd.edu (Michael Sherer) (08/29/90)

Our department is working up a network back-up proposal.  We have settled 
on an Exabyte-based system and are waiting for the release of Retrospect 
Remote.  However, I have learned that PCPC has been shipping a product 
called Netstream for about a year now which provides centralized backup of 
each workstation on the network across multiple zones.  Could anyone with 
experience with this product comment on its reliability, strengths and 
weaknesses?  Will it work with Exabyte juke boxes?

Also the Exabytes are quite expensive  in their Mac incarnation.  How 
difficult is it to hang a Mac SCSI cable off a SUN Exabyte drive?


Standard Disclaimer

mlwiese@eagle.mit.edu (Mike Wiese) (08/30/90)

In article <383@news.nd.edu> sherer@oucmail.cc.nd.edu (Michael Sherer) 
writes:
> Our department is working up a network back-up proposal. We have settled 
> on an Exabyte-based system and are waiting for the release of Retrospect 
> Remote.  However, I have learned that PCPC has been shipping a product 
> called Netstream for about a year now which provides centralized backup of 
> each workstation on the network across multiple zones.  Could anyone with 
> experience with this product comment on its reliability, strengths and 
> weaknesses?  Will it work with Exabyte juke boxes?
> 
> Also the Exabytes are quite expensive  in their Mac incarnation.  How 
> difficult is it to hang a Mac SCSI cable off a SUN Exabyte drive?

In early July, before we had heard of Retrospect Remote, our department 
ordered a PCPC DATstream and 50 copies of NetStream software. We ordered 50 copies of NetStream so we could get the volume discount of $77 a copy, even 
though we only have about 35 users right now. We were told by their sales department that NetStream only works with PCPC's backup devices.

We were told it would ship Real Soon Now for about a month, when we read 
about Retrospect Remote on the front page of MacWEEK. We called Dantz and 
got invites to a preview of Retrospect Remote during MacWorld. We were 
thoroughly impressed, and canceled the PCPC order immediately. Note that 
at the last minute PCPC decided not to attend MacWorld, and from speaking 
to them on the phone, it sounds like they are going through some internal 
shuffling. Here's a summary of what we learned about Retrospect Remote:

 - Retrospect Remote is supposed to ship in mid September. I HAVE NOT ACTUALLY TESTED IT IN A REAL WORK ENVIRONMENT.

 - installation consists of dragging a small cdev into each user's system 
folder. There is no serialization until the user has been configured. This 
software will list for only $250 for 10 licenses.

 - after that instalation everything is centrally administered. This 
inlcudes scheduling the backup, selecting what files to backup, restoring 
files, and some security features. Each user can specify a private area of their hard disk which will not be available for backup.

 - The Mac which will have the backup device(s) attatched needs one copy 
of the regular version of Retrospect. Volumes attached to any Mac on the AppleTalk internet (ie across networks and zones) that has Restrospect Remote installed may be selected for backup. Otherwise the interface is the same as before. Users can do a Finder Shut Down when they leave for the day, and Retrospect Remote will trap the ShutDown, wait until the scheduled backup is performed, then allow the ShutDown to complete. This is important for those who have sensitive information on their Macs and are usin








g security software that requires a password at startup. It would be difficult to abort the ShutDown and gain access to the hard disk.

 - Dantz strongly recommends the Mac that will have the backup device 
attatched be connected to the network with an ethernet card, because 
LocalTalk adversely affects performance (except on a IIfx). Client 
Macs can be on LocalTalk. For performance reasons, they suggest a maximum 
of 130 clients, but there is no inherent limit in the software. They use 
ADSP to transport the data over the network, which allows them to come 
close to the theoretical limit for transfer speed on LocalTalk.

 - Dantz has been in the Mac backup business since 1985. They wrote 
Diskfit under contract, and have been selling Retrospect since summer 
1989. They do not sell hardware, so backup device manufacturers give them 
inside information which lets them support "every backup device you can 
connect to a Mac, except 9 track mag tape." It doesn't matter whose name 
is on the outside of the box; Retrospect has its own drivers that work 
with the hardware on the inside. This means it should work with any 8mm 
tape drive since they're all made by the same company, Exabyte.

We asked the president and his brother, who wrote the software, if they 
had any preference between 8mm drives vs DAT drives. They said "There's 
only one company making 8mm data  drives in the US, and the lack of 
competition shows. DAT is the way to go." There are only four 
manufacturers of data DAT drives for the Mac, but there are two standards 
for formatting data: DataDAT and DDS. Sony, Wangtek, and WangDAT all use 
the DDS format, which seems likely to become the prevailing standard. 
Dantz would not comment on relative reliablilty of those three 
manufacturers, only that they were all fine. DAT media costs $20 for 1300 
meg, while 8mm is only $5 for 2300 meg, but either way we're talking only 
a few cents/meg. DAT drives can go from one end of the tape to the 
other in 20 seconds, 8mm takes 15 minutes.

APS (back pages of MacWEEK) is selling a WangDAT for $1999 including 
Retrospect. We are going to order one from somewhere within a week. 

Mike Wiese
MIT Information Services
mlwiese@eagle.mit.edu

lemke@radius.com (Steve Lemke) (08/30/90)

mlwiese@eagle.mit.edu (Mike Wiese) writes:

>"DAT is the way to go."
>Dantz would not comment on relative reliablilty of those three 
>manufacturers, only that they were all fine. DAT media costs $20 for 1300 
>meg, while 8mm is only $5 for 2300 meg, but either way we're talking only 
>a few cents/meg. DAT drives can go from one end of the tape to the 
>other in 20 seconds, 8mm takes 15 minutes.
>
>APS (back pages of MacWEEK) is selling a WangDAT for $1999 including 
>Retrospect. We are going to order one from somewhere within a week. 

Be sure to check out the Micronet DAT drive as well.  I can't recall what
we paid for it (with developer discount), but we bought it at the same time
we bought two 600mb Micronet (Imprimis) hard drives, for use with an Apple-
Share server.  The DAT drive actually sits on a workstation, and backs up
the server over Ethernet.  It's worked really well for us, and it came with
Retrospect.  We're really looking forward to getting Retrospect Remote, since
(theoretically) it should let us back up all of our QuickMail servers without
having to shut them down.

--Steve
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