tonyrich@titanic.cs.wisc.edu (Anthony Rich) (09/02/90)
wnn@ornl.gov (Wolfgang N. Naegeli) writes: > It would be great if I could carry a floppy with my personal preferences > file around, stick it in any Mac, [and have] all the applications > configured to my personal preferences. YES, YES, YES! Right now, the Mac programs that *do* allow saving preferences usually keep their preference files in the System Folder (or in a Preferences folder in the System Folder), but that still associates the preferences with the *machine*, not with the *users* of the machine. Normally people sharing a Mac share its hard disk, and therefore the preferences in *one* System Folder, rather than booting from customized System Folders on their own private floppies. What would be ideal is for the Mac to maintain a collection of user- preference setups, perhaps selectable in a list in the Control Panel. Each user could select his or her own preferences, or switch back to a default set of preferences, or even switch to someone else's preferences if they wanted to try them out. (Sort of a "Blesser" for preferences). At the computer science department here, the Unix workstations are networked, so if you're in someone else's office, you can use their machine to "log into" your own (typically to show someone something that's only on your machine). But it's usually awkward to do any work that way, because even though you're connected remotely to your own machine, your own preferences (such as your custom keyboard mapping, command aliases, etc.) don't apply to the machine you're sitting at. Often very basic things are different, like whether the "backspace" key or the "delete" key acts as a backspace. It would be nice if preferences were in a single file (or folder, on the Mac) that was easy to install and move from machine to machine without disrupting whatever preferences people normally use on those computers. Maybe someday. If it ever happens, I'm guessing that it'll happen on the Mac before it happens anywhere else. How about in System 8, Apple? -- Tony -- ----------------------------------------- | EMAIL: tonyrich@titanic.cs.wisc.edu | | Disclaimer: I speak only for myself. | -----------------------------------------
jbr0@cbnews.att.com (joseph.a.brownlee) (09/05/90)
In article <11128@spool.cs.wisc.edu>, tonyrich@titanic.cs.wisc.edu (Anthony Rich) writes: > wnn@ornl.gov (Wolfgang N. Naegeli) writes: > > It would be great if I could carry a floppy with my personal preferences > > file around, stick it in any Mac, [and have] all the applications > > configured to my personal preferences. > > YES, YES, YES! Right now, the Mac programs that *do* allow saving > preferences usually keep their preference files in the System Folder > (or in a Preferences folder in the System Folder), but that still associates > the preferences with the *machine*, not with the *users* of the machine. > [...] This, combined with the prennial "How do I read the name from the Chooser" question, makes me think that what the Mac needs is the ability to have a pseudo-login facility. This facility would be an extension of the existing Chooser functionality that would identify you as a particular user, and would allow those applications that need them to save per-user preference data. For compatibility, perhaps there would be some default user (like "Macintosh" or something) that would be the selected user if the user did not explicitly identify themselves. This way, the user would not be forced to identify themselves if they were willing to accept a default configuration, while users who wanted to have their own preference data would have a mechanism to support this. One problem with a scheme like this is that it would be easy to forget to select your name from the registered users, launch a bunch of applications, and then realize that you aren't who you thought you were. Perhaps some preference somewhere would allow you to be prompted for your identity at startup. At the very least though, you would still need the ability to change who you are without having to re-boot. One argument I have heard against that sort of thing is the Mac is a "home computer" (which was true with the 128K machine prehaps, but time have changed just a little -- but I digress). I don't think this argument holds water. My wife and I both use our home machine, and her preferences in certain applications don't match mine at all. People are different, and what makes one person more productive is a hinderance to someone else. > It would be nice if preferences were in a single file (or folder, on the > Mac) that was easy to install and move from machine to machine without > disrupting whatever preferences people normally use on those computers. I like this idea. I think the time for dropping all preference data into the System Folder is passed, but for now, there isn't really much of an alternative for the application developers. > Maybe someday. If it ever happens, I'm guessing that it'll happen on > the Mac before it happens anywhere else. How about in System 8, Apple? As you mentioned yourself, UNIX has had this kind of thing for years. But there is no doubt that Apple could show some leadership in this area over DOS and the like, but some effort would have to spent to determine how best to meet this need. -- - _ Joe Brownlee, Analysts International Corp. @ AT&T Network Systems /_\ @ / ` 471 E Broad St, Suite 1610, Columbus, Ohio 43215 (614) 860-7461 / \ | \_, E-mail: jbr@cblph.att.com Who pays attention to what _I_ say? "Scotty, we need warp drive in 3 minutes or we're all dead!" --- James T. Kirk
wnn@ornl.gov (Wolfgang N. Naegeli) (09/05/90)
In article <1990Sep4.172034.23034@cbnews.att.com> jbr0@cbnews.att.com (joseph.a.brownlee) writes: > what the Mac needs is the ability to have a > pseudo-login facility. This facility would be an extension of the existing > Chooser functionality that would identify you as a particular user, and would > allow those applications that need them to save per-user preference data. > . . . > Perhaps some > preference somewhere would allow you to be prompted for your identity at > startup. Good idea to tie the Chooser name into these personal preferences sets! Users often forget to, or are too lazy to, change the Chooser name. Since they are much more likely to feel a real need to load their own preferences, we whould get a much higher rate of correct Chooser names. Prompting on startup is useful, but not fool proof because users do not necessarily restart the Mac when taking control of it. This really is the weak link in any of these schemes. Maybe one day there will be keyboards with inexpensive finger-print scanners built right into the keys. Wolfgang N. Naegeli Internet: wnn@ornl.gov Bitnet: wnn@ornlstc Phone: 615-574-6143 Fax: 615-574-6141 QuickMail (QM-QM): Wolfgang Naegeli @ 615-574-4510 Snail: Oak Ridge National Laboratory, Oak Ridge, TN 37831-6206
6600patb@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Pat Breitenbach) (09/06/90)
Perhaps this discussion ought to consider Apple's position on the subject. IMHO it would probably be: "One person, one computer." But that's a different story. -Patrick Internet: 6600patb@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu
flowers@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (Margot Flowers) (09/06/90)
In article <11128@spool.cs.wisc.edu> tonyrich@titanic.cs.wisc.edu (Anthony Rich) writes: >What would be ideal is for the Mac to maintain a collection of user- >preference setups, perhaps selectable in a list in the Control Panel. There is a cdev in the info-mac archives which is designed to do just this. I have not tried it, but from the documentation it looks nice. Does anyone have any experience with it? It is in cdev/fresh-start-16.hqx and is dated Dec 89. Margot Flowers Flowers@CS.UCLA.EDU ...!(uunet,rutgers,ucbvax,randvax)!cs.ucla.edu!flowers
kent@circus.camex.com (Kent Borg) (09/06/90)
In article <1990Sep5.143446.21834@cs.utk.edu> wnn@ornl.gov (Wolfgang N. Naegeli) writes: >Good idea to tie the Chooser name into these personal preferences sets! >Users often forget to, >or are too lazy to, change the Chooser name. Since they are much more >likely to feel a real >need to load their own preferences, we whould get a much higher rate of >correct Chooser names. Yes, but what *is* the correct Chooser name? The Chooser name might be the name of the person using the computer or it might be the name of the computer. If the computer is used by only one person, then the name won't be changing and it won't matter exactly which name is used. If many different people use the same Mac things get confusing. I prefer that the Chooser name not change all the time. I like to think of it more as the machine's name--after all, when I run Interpol to see what has been recently added to the net, it is nice to know what I am looking at. If one person uses three different machines in sequence I might end up with three different "John Doe"s out there. Similarly, if Jane Doe is waiting for a LaserWriter which is being tied up by John Doe, it would be nice if she had some way of knowing which machine that really is. She will only know if the Chooser name is fairly stable. As for sets of preferences, I think the Mac is best as a personal computer. To warp the personal aspects so as to make it more of a multiuser computer seems a mistake. (Note, A/UX does allow logging in. Each user gets a personal System Folder.) Kent Borg internet: kent@camex.com AOL: kent borg H:(617) 776-6899 W:(617) 426-3577 "Congress was about to scuttle our defense department ... Could our military industrial complex be backing Iraq?" - my mother, 8-4-90
peirce@claris.com (Michael Peirce) (09/07/90)
In article <1518@camex.COM> kent@camex.com (Kent Borg) writes: >In article <1990Sep5.143446.21834@cs.utk.edu> wnn@ornl.gov (Wolfgang N. Naegeli) writes: >>Good idea to tie the Chooser name into these personal preferences sets! >>Users often forget to, >>or are too lazy to, change the Chooser name. Since they are much more >>likely to feel a real >>need to load their own preferences, we whould get a much higher rate of >>correct Chooser names. > >Yes, but what *is* the correct Chooser name? The Chooser name might >be the name of the person using the computer or it might be the name >of the computer. If the computer is used by only one person, then the >name won't be changing and it won't matter exactly which name is used. >If many different people use the same Mac things get confusing. In System 7 there are now two names for a machine. The machine name and the person's name. This lets me do things like have the Mac II on my desk identified as "Michael Peirce", "MRP's Mac II" and the SE next to it as "Michael Peirce", "MRP's SE". From what I can tell, the old Chooser name maps to the User name (it's stored in the same STR resource in the system file) so things like Public Folder use it to identify the machine. BUT things like FileShare use the new Machine name to identify the machine. Claris Corp. | Michael R. Peirce -------------+-------------------------------------- | 5201 Patrick Henry Drive MS-C4 | Box 58168 | Santa Clara, CA 95051-8168 | (408) 987-7319 | AppleLink: peirce1 | Internet: peirce@claris.com | uucp: {ames,decwrl,apple,sun}!claris!peirce
wnn@ornl.gov (Wolfgang N. Naegeli) (09/08/90)
In article <1518@camex.COM> kent@circus.camex.com (Kent Borg) writes: > . . . what *is* the correct Chooser name? The Chooser name might > be the name of the person using the computer or it might be the name > of the computer. You are right! This really is quite a design flaw. Apple should have put two fields in there, one for the Machine Name/Location and a second one for the User Name. > As for sets of preferences, I think the Mac is best as a personal > computer. To warp the personal aspects so as to make it more of a > multiuser computer seems a mistake. Here, I don't agree. People move around a lot. They have a need to use computers in different locations. Many can't afford a MacPortable and even if they can, they may find it inconvenient to lug around--or inadequate in computing power or screen size. Most of us don't carry cellular phones around either, we rely on phones being available, but we us our personal Foncard. We rely on hotel rooms, but we usually bring our own toothbrush. Easily loadable preferences sets do not make a multi-user system our of a Mac, they make it a M O R E P E R S O N A L computer! By analogy, taking some personal items along when staying in a hotel room makes us feel more comfortable, it doesn't make that room more similar to a dormitory. Wolfgang N. Naegeli Internet: wnn@ornl.gov Bitnet: wnn@ornlstc Phone: 615-574-6143 Fax: 615-574-6141 QuickMail (QM-QM): Wolfgang Naegeli @ 615-574-4510 Snail: Oak Ridge National Laboratory, Oak Ridge, TN 37831-6206
ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith) (09/10/90)
I too have often thought that some sort of "login" would be nice on the Mac in my office at work, so that, for example, people who use my Mac for random things when I am away can easily be prevented from mucking with everything. Probably a good way to do it, from the user interface point of view, is to make it look like AppleShare. The only difference would be you use your own machine as the server. This would probably fit in well with System 7, also. Tim Smith