dsk@eecs.nwu.edu (Daniel S. Katz) (09/19/90)
Does anyone know anything about compatability between the MacClassic and System 7.0? Will they work together? +-----------------------------------+-------------------------------+ |Dan Katz | (708)491-8887| |Dept. of Electrical Engineering | dsk@eecs.nwu.edu| |Northwestern University | dkatz@nuacc.bitnet| +-----------------------------------+-------------------------------+
wilkins@jarthur.Claremont.EDU (Mark Wilkins) (09/19/90)
In article <12280@accuvax.nwu.edu> dsk@eecs.nwu.edu (Daniel S. Katz) writes: >Does anyone know anything about compatability between the MacClassic >and System 7.0? Will they work together? Apple has made very clear that ALL Macs currently sold and ALL future Macs will be capable of running System 7 and taking advantage of almost all of its features. System 7.0a9 has some internal stuff which hints at the existence of (possibly) support for future machines, although to be more specific I'm sure I'd be violating nondisclosure, regardless of Apple's "Talk all you want" stance on System 7. Apple, I'm sure, realizes that not everyone will upgrade, but the truth is that they'd be shooting themselves in the foot if they said "System 7 is only for high-end machines" because it would make all the nifty features of System 7 much less useful. As far as I can tell, the only barrier to upgrading is memory, and at $49 per megabyte, that's not too much an issue. -- Mark Wilkins
bskendig@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Brian Kendig) (09/19/90)
In article <8444@jarthur.Claremont.EDU> wilkins@jarthur.Claremont.EDU (Mark Wilkins) writes: >In article <12280@accuvax.nwu.edu> dsk@eecs.nwu.edu (Daniel S. Katz) writes: >>Does anyone know anything about compatability between the MacClassic >>and System 7.0? Will they work together? > Apple has made very clear that ALL Macs currently sold and ALL future Macs >will be capable of running System 7 and taking advantage of almost all of >its features. There's nothing in System 7 that is designed *not* to work with older Macs. Assuming that your Mac has been upgraded to at least the 128k ROMs and 2Mb of memory, you should be able to run System 7. (Of course, there's really no way to know until it's tried.) > System 7.0a9 has some internal stuff which hints at the existence of >(possibly) support for future machines, although to be more specific I'm >sure I'd be violating nondisclosure, regardless of Apple's "Talk all you >want" stance on System 7. Hm, I'd hope that System 7 will support future machines! I don't take kindly to the idea of getting up to System 7.0.5 within a matter of months, just to get new Macs to work... Perhaps I don't understand you correctly. > Apple, I'm sure, realizes that not everyone will upgrade, but the truth is >that they'd be shooting themselves in the foot if they said "System 7 is >only for high-end machines" because it would make all the nifty features of >System 7 much less useful. Well, I'll have more faith in Apple once they decide to stop creating only high-end machines, and come out with something small, inexpensive, and not crippled beyond the point of usefulness. Besides, I've seen System 7 on a Mac SE. In my opinion, it was ssllooww. Made System 6 feel zippy. Let's hope the speed has improved since 7.0a9! > As far as I can tell, the only barrier to upgrading is memory, and at $49 >per megabyte, that's not too much an issue. $49 per meg?! From where? I'm definitely interested! << Brian >> | Brian S. Kendig \ Macintosh | Engineering, | bskendig | | Computer Engineering |\ Thought | USS Enterprise | @phoenix.Princeton.EDU | Princeton University |_\ Police | -= NCC-1701-D =- | @PUCC.BITNET | .. s l o w l y, s l o w l y, w i t h t h e v e l o c i t y o f l o v e.
boortz@sics.se (Kent Boortz) (09/20/90)
I'm a bit puzzled about Apple Sweden's last move. They have cut the prices a lot for students on something they call SE Education ($1800, I assume this is not very cheap in US). It is an ordinary SE with 1 Mb RAM and 40 Mb hard disk. They sell a lot because most people don't know about system 7 and think that the only thing they lose is speed (relative a SE/30 with system 6.0.x). When system 7 comes they all lose. Of cause they can use an old system but who want to use an old system when you know about that there is one with a lot of new features. If they upgrade to 2 Mb RAM (VERY, VERY expensive in Sweden, Apple has almost no competition) then they can use system 7 but not all of it and probably with slow outline fonts (I can't be sure about that, some people do miracles with clever programming). They will sell this SE Education until last December (at this price at least). This gives me the conclusion that there will not be any low cost mac until then OR that this IS the low cost mac. Why build a new 60000 based computer these days? (The difference in cost compared to one with 68020 could not be much, but it is all about marketing strategy, isn't it?) Kent Boortz boortz@sics.se
ollef@sics.se (Olle Furberg) (09/20/90)
In <1990Sep19.203944.25371@sics.se> boortz@sics.se (Kent Boortz) writes: >I'm a bit puzzled about Apple Sweden's last move. They have cut the prices >a lot for students on something they call SE Education ($1800, I assume this >is not very cheap in US). It is an ordinary SE with 1 Mb RAM and 40 Mb hard I've seen this offer and I find it disgusting. They give the machine a new name and hopes that some students doesn't see through these acts of deception. >When system 7 comes they all lose. Of cause they can use an old system but >who want to use an old system when you know about that there is one I've tried System 7 on a Mac II, it's hopeless slow. I can't think of anyone with such a great patience he could use it on a 68000-Mac. Sometimes I start my MacPlus with System 3.2 just to get some speed over it: there are still a lot of programs that works with it. Is Apple going to give any support for a less-than-two-meg-system to be used by us who can't afford an upgrade?
bmug@garnet.berkeley.edu (BMUG) (09/20/90)
In article <1990Sep19.203944.25371@sics.se> boortz@sics.se (Kent Boortz) writes: > (some stuff deleted) > >When system 7 comes they all lose. Of cause they can use an old system but >who want to use an old system when you know about that there is one >with a lot of new features. If they upgrade to 2 Mb RAM (VERY, VERY >expensive in Sweden, Apple has almost no competition) then they can >use system 7 but not all of it and probably with slow outline fonts >(I can't be sure about that, some people do miracles with clever programming). > Given that one the companies in the U.S. (Technology Works) sells SIMMs for $47 or so using Siemens SIMMs, I'm surprised that there aren't alternative sources for SIMMs in Sweden. Of course, VAT taxes and such will push the price up, but there must be SOME competition (mustn't there?). System 7 won't obsolete any of the current machines (from Plusses on up); the only feature which will be unusable on 68000 machines is virtual memory. Of course, an SE or Plus will always be slower than a II-series machine (or an SE30), but it remains to be seen whether System 7, in its final release, is to sluggish on one of the slower machines. John Heckendorn /\ BMUG ARPA: bmug@garnet.berkeley.EDU A__A 1442A Walnut St., #62 BITNET: bmug@ucbgarne |()| Berkeley, CA 94709 Phone: (415) 549-2684 | |
hanche@imf.unit.no (Harald Hanche-Olsen) (09/20/90)
In article <8444@jarthur.Claremont.EDU> wilkins@jarthur.Claremont.EDU (Mark Wilkins) writes:
...
Apple has made very clear that ALL Macs currently sold and ALL future Macs
will be capable of running System 7 and taking advantage of almost all of
its features.
...
As far as I can tell, the only barrier to upgrading is memory, and at $49
per megabyte, that's not too much an issue.
But all the money in the world will not upgrade my SE beyond 4MB,
right? Even now I occasionally find life with 4MB under MultiFinder a
bit cramped - and that situation will not improve under System 7.0...
- Harald Hanche-Olsen <hanche@imf.unit.no>
Division of Mathematical Sciences
The Norwegian Institute of Technology
N-7034 Trondheim, NORWAYmacman@wpi.WPI.EDU (Chris Silverberg) (09/20/90)
In article <1990Sep19.203944.25371@sics.se> boortz@sics.se (Kent Boortz)writes: >I'm a bit puzzled about Apple Sweden's last move. They have cut the prices >a lot for students on something they call SE Education ($1800,I assume this is >not very cheap in US).It is an ordinary SE with 1 Mb RAM and 40 Mb hard disk. >They sell a lot because most people don't know about system 7 and think that >the only thing they lose is speed (relative a SE/30 with system 6.0.x). >When system 7 comes they all lose. Of cause they can use an old system but >who want to use an old system when you know about that there is one >with a lot of new features. If they upgrade to 2 Mb RAM (VERY, VERY >expensive in Sweden, Apple has almost no competition) then they can >use system 7 but not all of it and probably with slow outline fonts >(I can't be sure about that, some people do miracles with clever programming). From 1 megabyte, the next upgrade is to 2.5 megs. That should be fine for system 7. Truetype fonts are very fast, faster than ATM, even in the alpha release. There will also be SOME version of ATM that will work with 7 for Adobe fonts. As for prices, my recommendation is to purchase SIMMs through mail order companies. I realize that this is an inconvenience, but at $49 per meg, you'll be saving at least 50% off Apple's prices. >They will sell this SE Education until last December (at this price at least). >This gives me the conclusion that there will not be any low cost mac until >then OR that this IS the low cost mac. Why build a new 60000 based computer >these days? (The difference in cost compared to one with 68020 could not >be much, but it is all about marketing strategy, isn't it?) Three new Macs will be released in October... the SE will be phased out, so the SE will remain a low cost option along with the new machines. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Chris Silverberg INTERNET: macman@wpi.wpi.edu Worcester Polytechnic Institute Main Street USA 508-832-7725 (sysop) America Online: Silverberg WMUG BBS 508-832-5844 (sysop) "Ask me about TeleFinder... A Macintosh BBS with a Macintosh interface"
macman@wpi.WPI.EDU (Chris Silverberg) (09/20/90)
In article <1990Sep20.142124.7304@sics.se> ollef@sics.se (Olle Furberg) writes: >I've tried System 7 on a Mac II, it's hopeless slow. I can't think of anyone >with such a great patience he could use it on a 68000-Mac. >Sometimes I start my MacPlus with System 3.2 just to get some speed over it: >there are still a lot of programs that works with it. THINK about what you are comparing... the alpha version of system 7??? Haven't you been reading about how slow the alpha version is? Didn't it occur to you that perhaps the release version might be alot faster? (which it will be...) >Is Apple going to give any support for a less-than-two-meg-system to be >used by us who can't afford an upgrade? Yea, system 6.0.5... but for what... $100 you can mail order two megabytes to make your Mac a 2.5 meg Mac... that's not out of the range of most people... =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Chris Silverberg INTERNET: macman@wpi.wpi.edu Worcester Polytechnic Institute Main Street USA 508-832-7725 (sysop) America Online: Silverberg WMUG BBS 508-832-5844 (sysop) "Ask me about TeleFinder... A Macintosh BBS with a Macintosh interface"
jeffe@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (George Jefferson ) (09/20/90)
> > >I'm a bit puzzled about Apple Sweden's last move. They have cut the prices > >a lot for students on something they call SE Education ($1800, I assume this > >is not very cheap in US). It is an ordinary SE with 1 Mb RAM and 40 Mb hard > >I've seen this offer and I find it disgusting. They give the machine a new >name and hopes that some students doesn't see through these acts of deception. In the university computer store the other day i overheard a salesman trying (in vain) to explain the concept of a _hard_drive_ to a girl who was deciding between an SE and an SE30. (checkbook in hand) I didn't stick around to hear him tell her about virtual memory :-) -- -george @sol1.lrsm.upenn.edu
dwal@ellis.uchicago.edu (David Walton) (09/20/90)
In article <1990Sep20.142124.7304@sics.se> ollef@sics.se (Olle Furberg) writes: > >I've tried System 7 on a Mac II, it's hopeless slow. I can't think of anyone >with such a great patience he could use it on a 68000-Mac. >Sometimes I start my MacPlus with System 3.2 just to get some speed over it: >there are still a lot of programs that works with it. If you've tried System 7, you've probably tried 7.0a9, yes? While it's true that this version is blazingly slow, remember that it's packed full of debugging code, which will slow down anything. Granted, I suspect I might not want to use the release version on a 68000 machine; I find System _6_ to be annoyingly slow on a Plus, for example. But then, I've been spoiled by the IIci in our lab :-). >Is Apple going to give any support for a less-than-two-meg-system to be >used by us who can't afford an upgrade? I understand that they'll still support System 6, at least for a while. As an earlier poster said, I'm surprised that you don't have competition/lower memory prices in Sweden. That does seem grossly unfair. Is it possible to order memory from US companies, or do import/export restrictions forbid that? -- David Walton Internet: dwal@midway.uchicago.edu University of Chicago { Any opinions found herein are mine, not } Computing Organizations { those of my employers (or anybody else). }
Garance_Drosehn@mts.rpi.edu (Garance Drosehn) (09/21/90)
In article <HANCHE.90Sep20172625@hufsa.imf.unit.no> hanche@imf.unit.no (Harald Hanche-Olsen) writes: > But all the money in the world will not upgrade my SE beyond 4MB, > right? Even now I occasionally find life with 4MB under MultiFinder a > bit cramped - and that situation will not improve under System 7.0... All the money in the world could buy you an accelerator card, some of which support more than 4 Megs. The XL25 board (I think that's the name, from Irwin Magnetics) that I have in my own Mac SE supports 8 Meg, for instance. Garance_Drosehn@mts.rpi.edu ITS Systems Programmer Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY. USA
macman@wpi.WPI.EDU (Chris Silverberg) (09/21/90)
In article <HANCHE.90Sep20172625@hufsa.imf.unit.no> hanche@imf.unit.no (Harald Hanche-Olsen) writes: >But all the money in the world will not upgrade my SE beyond 4MB, >right? Even now I occasionally find life with 4MB under MultiFinder a >bit cramped - and that situation will not improve under System 7.0... Perhaps "all the money in the world" is not quite appropriate... if you have a large Hard Drive, and want to spend $450 on a Dove 030 upgrade, then you'll be able to use virtual memory, that will give you all the free memory you would ever want. (Yup, we all said that when we upgraded from 1 to 4 megs right :-) Of course, i myself would like to do an upgrade for not too much more money that will make my SE an 030 AND a faster machine (which the upgrade doesn't do too well). =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Chris Silverberg INTERNET: macman@wpi.wpi.edu Worcester Polytechnic Institute Main Street USA 508-832-7725 (sysop) America Online: Silverberg WMUG BBS 508-832-5844 (sysop) "Ask me about TeleFinder... A Macintosh BBS with a Macintosh interface"
gillies@m.cs.uiuc.edu (09/21/90)
The "4MB Bottleneck" may soon become as bad as the "640K" bottleneck
on the IBM PC's. Mathematica is nearly unusable with only 4 megs of
memory -- you run out of memory after 10 minutes of use. I expect
that system 7.0 will make mathematica UNUSABLE on a 4Mb machine. And
we can expect things to get much worse in the future.
If a certain Macintosh cannot support virtual memory, then it should
be possible to expand the main memory to 8-12 megabytes, to compensate
for this deficiency. But the mac SE is designed with a built-in 4Mb
limitation. While this originally was a selling point of the II
series, it will soom become an anchor around Apple's throat.
Don W. Gillies, Dept. of Computer Science, University of Illinois
1304 W. Springfield, Urbana, Ill 61801
ARPA: gillies@cs.uiuc.edu UUCP: {uunet,harvard}!uiucdcs!gilliesboortz@sics.se (Kent Boortz) (09/21/90)
Sweden is a small market (but we have many mac's per capita). The Apple monopoly is very strong. You can't find alternatives in a mac store to products like Localtalk connectors (PhoneNet), you have to pay Apple $100 each. There is no competition between different stores (is it the same in US?). If you buy software you have to pay 2, 3 times (or more) than you can get with mail order from US including tax and freight. We tried to upgrade THINK C, bought in Sweden, but it should take months to get it and cost the same as buying a new one from APDA. The funny thing is that they add this enormous profit even to software not translated into Swedish (not even the manual). Someone is making big money ;-) Remember that most people (at least in Sweden) don't have the information that you all have (news, magazines etc). They go were they bought the mac to upgrade and in Sweden this is an Apple RAM upgrade from an Apple dealer. Sorry about going a bit from the point (it was MacClassic & System 7.0) Kent Boortz boortz@sics.se
capslock@wet.UUCP (Allen Crider) (09/21/90)
In article <1990Sep19.203944.25371@sics.se> boortz@sics.se (Kent Boortz) writes: > > >When system 7 comes they all lose. Not to worry, System 7 won't be finished for YEARS!! I'll agree with you that those Classic Macs are pretty slow, and cheaper-faster Macs are coming in the Fall (or in a few years).
gwowen@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (George Owen) (09/21/90)
In article <1990Sep20.142124.7304@sics.se> ollef@sics.se (Olle Furberg) writes: > >Is Apple going to give any support for a less-than-two-meg-system to be >used by us who can't afford an upgrade? ... nice wisdom. Think about it ... how many out there that are using more then one application find 2 megs adequate under SYSTEM 6 ? ... just think how fun it'll be under SYSTEM 7 !!!!!!!! Remember , 2 megs is the MINIMUM , not realistic , amount of memory our favorite fruti computer company recommends ! ( at least today ) - G -
ollef@sics.se (Olle Furberg) (09/21/90)
In <15804@wpi.WPI.EDU> macman@wpi.WPI.EDU (Chris Silverberg) writes: >THINK about what you are comparing... the alpha version of system 7??? Haven't >you been reading about how slow the alpha version is? Didn't it occur to you >that perhaps the release version might be alot faster? (which it will be...) >Yea, system 6.0.5... but for what... $100 you can mail order two megabytes to >make your Mac a 2.5 meg Mac... that's not out of the range of most people... I doubt that any System >= 7.0 will be faster than the Systems 3.2 or 6.05 on a *68000*-machine, or do you really think there will be some magic code in the 7.* which could speed up my MacPlus? Btw, System 6.05 is already too slow for my taste... I do the System upgrades because I want to get rid of nasty bugs like Folder From Hell. I would appreciate if Apple sometimes could solve these kind of bugs *before* putting in more features into the software.
resnick@cogsci.uiuc.edu (Pete Resnick) (09/21/90)
gillies@m.cs.uiuc.edu writes: >The "4MB Bottleneck" may soon become as bad as the "640K" bottleneck >on the IBM PC's. Mathematica is nearly unusable with only 4 megs of >memory -- you run out of memory after 10 minutes of use. I expect >that system 7.0 will make mathematica UNUSABLE on a 4Mb machine. And >we can expect things to get much worse in the future. >If a certain Macintosh cannot support virtual memory, then it should >be possible to expand the main memory to 8-12 megabytes, to compensate >for this deficiency. But the mac SE is designed with a built-in 4Mb >limitation. While this originally was a selling point of the II >series, it will soom become an anchor around Apple's throat. >Don W. Gillies, Dept. of Computer Science, University of Illinois **FLAME ON** It would take a person in a computer science department..... The only reason that software becomes unusable on a 4MB machine is because developer's have forgotten how to write small code. An inordinate number of applications that are out today are just plain PIGS. 4MEG???? 32K was a big damn deal 10 years ago; 640K in the PC made me drool. Now, I assume that something like Mathematica would need some larger amount of memory than, say, MacWrite ever did, but dieing with 4MB???? Just because hardware technology progresses orders of magnitude faster than software *technology* does not mean that we compenstate with software *size* and design *stupidity*. People who declare 50 Str255's in a program are probably doing it wrong! **FLAME OFF** Thank you. I needed that. pr -- Pete Resnick (...so what is a mojo, and why would one be rising?) Graduate assistant - Philosophy Department, Gregory Hall, UIUC System manager - Cognitive Science Group, Beckman Institute, UIUC Internet/ARPAnet/EDUnet : resnick@cogsci.uiuc.edu BITNET (if no other way) : FREE0285@UIUCVMD
wilkins@jarthur.Claremont.EDU (Mark Wilkins) (09/21/90)
In article <1990Sep21.013544.28362@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> resnick@cogsci.uiuc.edu (Pete Resnick) writes: >**FLAME ON** >It would take a person in a computer science department..... >The only reason that software becomes unusable on a 4MB machine >is because developer's have forgotten how to write small code. An >inordinate number of applications that are out today are just plain >PIGS. 4MEG???? 32K was a big damn deal 10 years ago; 640K in the >PC made me drool. The reason that Mathematica is so memory-hungry is that by its very nature it has to perform THOUSANDS of token evaluations for every calculation. It is almost entirely symbolic in nature. As a result, it tends to be slow but very flexible for the types of math it's good at. Mathematica, like most other symbolic manipulation programs, is an extreme example of speed optimization at the expense of space optimization. In the past, time was cheap and memory was expensive. These days, that is no longer the case. Mathematica COULD be jammed into much less space but to make it faster it generates MASSIVE hash tables of symbols. Also, all the graphics are done in PostScript to make them machine independent, at the expense of space. By the way, Maple is more space efficient and somewhat faster, but it also suffers from the same tradeoff. Yes, by yesterday's standards Mathematica is absurdly large. However, it would NOT HAVE BEEN POSSIBLE to create such a thing (with all the graphics capabilities, built-in numerical algorithms, and speed) before multiple- megabyte systems existed. -- Mark Wilkins
coxr@ecn.purdue.edu (Richard L Cox) (09/22/90)
>**FLAME ON** >It would take a person in a computer science department..... >The only reason that software becomes unusable on a 4MB machine >is because developer's have forgotten how to write small code. An >inordinate number of applications that are out today are just plain >PIGS. 4MEG???? 32K was a big damn deal 10 years ago; 640K in the >PC made me drool. Now, I assume that something like Mathematica >would need some larger amount of memory than, say, MacWrite ever >did, but dieing with 4MB???? Just because hardware technology >progresses orders of magnitude faster than software *technology* >does not mean that we compenstate with software *size* and design >*stupidity*. > >People who declare 50 Str255's in a program are probably doing it >wrong! >**FLAME OFF** 10 years ago, how many graphic desktop applications were there? coxr@en.ecn.purdue.edu American Online : Rich Kid -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "And the kids they dance, they shake their bones" -GD peace, -Rich
ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM (Norman Goodger) (09/22/90)
In article <1990Sep20.142124.7304@sics.se> ollef@sics.se (Olle Furberg) writes: > >I've tried System 7 on a Mac II, it's hopeless slow. I can't think of anyone >with such a great patience he could use it on a 68000-Mac. >Sometimes I start my MacPlus with System 3.2 just to get some speed over it: >there are still a lot of programs that works with it. >Is Apple going to give any support for a less-than-two-meg-system to be >used by us who can't afford an upgrade? Olle, what you tried was is a "alpha version" of 7.0, much of the speed will be significantly enhanced in later beta and the release version. You already have support for 1 meg machines, its called System 6.0.x. I am not sure what you cannot afford to upgrade to, with 1 meg simm prices at $45 a simm, as far as I am concerned, if you can afford to buy the computer, you can afford a ram upgrade to use 7.0. I doubt if there is any real speed up in using ancient system 3.2 either... current system software runs just fine on any Mac.. A lot of software though will not run under system 3.2. -- Norm Goodger SysOp - MacInfo BBS @415-795-8862 3Com Corp. Co-SysOp FreeSoft RT - GEnie. Enterprise Systems Division (I disclaim anything and everything) UUCP: {3comvax,auspex,sun}!bridge2!ngg Internet: ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM
ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM (Norman Goodger) (09/22/90)
In article <1990Sep21.010848.749@sics.se> ollef@sics.se (Olle Furberg) writes: > >I doubt that any System >= 7.0 will be faster than the Systems 3.2 or 6.05 >on a *68000*-machine, or do you really think there will be some magic code >in the 7.* which could speed up my MacPlus? Btw, System 6.05 is already >too slow for my taste... > >I do the System upgrades because I want to get rid of nasty bugs like Folder >From Hell. I would appreciate if Apple sometimes could solve these kind >of bugs *before* putting in more features into the software. All of a sudden I sat here thinking, what is slow? What possible perception of speed are you looking at that makes you think one system release is slower than another? Are you looking at how fast a program loads? Are you looking at how fast a disk read/writes data? Are you looking at screen updates? What is the perception?? Also I have seen nothing anywhere that concludes that the occasional folder problem that we see is caused by some bug in the system software. It is usually directory damage of some sort. This can happen for a number of reasons, none of which are system software related. -- Norm Goodger SysOp - MacInfo BBS @415-795-8862 3Com Corp. Co-SysOp FreeSoft RT - GEnie. Enterprise Systems Division (I disclaim anything and everything) UUCP: {3comvax,auspex,sun}!bridge2!ngg Internet: ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM
heksterb@Apple.COM (Ben Hekster) (09/22/90)
I agree, there seem to be a lot of programmers out there using fancy development systems with 8 Mb or more, and they're sure as hell are going to USE it all, too! The argument that 32-bit graphics applications NEED lots of memory is only partly valid--it doesn't account for the other 90% of applications, some of which are extremely clean and lean, but some of which, to quote a previous poster, are in fact real memory and CPU PIGS. Just my personal opinion. -- ________________________________________________________________________________ Ben Hekster | "Plans made in the nursery Installer dude | can change the course of history AppleLink: heksterb | Remember that! Internet: heksterb@apple.com | --Shouldn't Have Done That, BITNET: heksterb@henut5 | Depeche Mode [A Broken Frame]
jmunkki@hila.hut.fi (Juri Munkki) (09/22/90)
In article <1990Sep20.212211.15665@sics.se> boortz@sics.se (Kent Boortz) writes: >can get with mail order from US including tax and freight. We tried to upgrade >THINK C, bought in Sweden, but it should take months to get it and cost the >same as buying a new one from APDA. At least some things are better in Finland. I got my Think C upgrade from Acom (it was a few months late, but I could live with 3.0something for that time) and it was only 350 FIM, which was about US$75. >The funny thing is that they add this enormous profit even to software not >translated into Swedish (not even the manual). Someone is making big money ;-) Small volumes translate into high prices. We usually buy our software from ComputerWare. Unfortunately we can't get everything from them. >Remember that most people (at least in Sweden) don't have the information >that you all have (news, magazines etc). They go were they bought the >mac to upgrade and in Sweden this is an Apple RAM upgrade from an Apple >dealer. Apple pricing is unbelievable. Knowing what the prices are in Finland, I guess you should be able to find 1MB SIMMs for around 500 SEK ($90) or slightly less by calling just a few places. Dealers are making good profits by selling non-Apple RAM upgrades at high prices by comparing their price to the official Apple price. ____________________________________________________________________________ / Juri Munkki / Helsinki University of Technology / Wind / Project / / jmunkki@hut.fi / Computing Center Macintosh Support / Surf / STORM / ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
klaus@diku.dk (Klaus Ole Kristiansen) (09/24/90)
ollef@sics.se (Olle Furberg) writes: >In <1990Sep19.203944.25371@sics.se> boortz@sics.se (Kent Boortz) writes: > >I'm a bit puzzled about Apple Sweden's last move. They have cut the prices > >a lot for students on something they call SE Education ($1800, I assume this > >is not very cheap in US). It is an ordinary SE with 1 Mb RAM and 40 Mb hard >I've seen this offer and I find it disgusting. They give the machine a new >name and hopes that some students doesn't see through these acts of deception. > >When system 7 comes they all lose. Of cause they can use an old system but > >who want to use an old system when you know about that there is one >I've tried System 7 on a Mac II, it's hopeless slow. I can't think of anyone >with such a great patience he could use it on a 68000-Mac. >Sometimes I start my MacPlus with System 3.2 just to get some speed over it: >there are still a lot of programs that works with it. >Is Apple going to give any support for a less-than-two-meg-system to be >used by us who can't afford an upgrade? I feel just the opposite. I wish I had I Mac education. In march this year I paid more for a mac DSE with 2 HD drives than they now want for one with one HD and a 40M harddisk! Klaus Kristiansen