humes@mtsd.uucp (VINCE HUMES) (10/24/90)
I am having a problem with an Apple Internet. First I'll describe my configuration and then the problem. I have 10 MAC II ci's as fileservers. These fileservers are connected to a Farallon star control and to ethernet via an ethertalk card. The Apple Internet router is running on the Mac Fileserver to allow users access to all zones and servers on the internet. The problem is when usage over the routers increases, the fileservers will lock up and the workstations get an "Unexpected Shutdown" Error. Sometimes only one or two servers crash, other times the entire network crashes. The problem always seems to occur when there is activity over the internet routers. Have any of you had similar problems? One other thing, we are running a mix of phase 1, phase 2, decnet and pacerlink. Any input would be greatly appreciate. Thanks in advance.
rob@lcs.mit.edu (Rob Kassel) (10/29/90)
In article <49@mtsd.uucp> humes@mtsd.uucp (VINCE HUMES) writes: >I am having a problem with an Apple Internet. First I'll describe my >configuration and then the problem. > >The problem is when usage over the routers increases, the fileservers will lock >up and the workstations get an "Unexpected Shutdown" Error. Sometimes only one >or two servers crash, other times the entire network crashes. The problem >always seems to occur when there is activity over the internet routers. > Our fileserver/router has had the same problem! Typically, we get crashes when someone sends a large print job, often one with a large bitmapped graphic. I've had a tough time finding someone at apple to listen as our N&C answerline subscription ran out long ago (although Stacy there has been extremely helpful, I can't really bug her further). Here's a sketch of our setup: IIci with 8Mb memory, 1-bit video card, ethertalk card (Rev L) A pile of hard disks (4 apple 80's and 2 FWB 600's and an FWB 300) System 6.0.5 AppleShare File Server (2.0.1) AppleShare Print Server (2.0, spools 5 printers) Apple Internet Router (2.0) QuickMail Mail Center (2.2.1) DiskExpress II localtalk cabling + thinwire ethertalk (used for IP data too) Phase 2 only GatorBox acting as backup router We've tried NUMEROUS things to make the machine not crash, including: increasing the system heap, removing software/inits, using a IIfx SCSI terminator, changing mouse and keyboard, removing some disks, and even changing the network numbers. The only thing that seems to keep the machine running is removing the router. Our solution is to disable the router and buy an Ether*Route box for $500. We've tried for close to a year to correct the problem and basically have given up! If anyone from Apple is reading this message and is interested in trying to debug this problem, I'm willing to help in any way I can. You can contact me via E-mail (Rob@goldilocks.lcs.mit.edu) or AppleLink (MIT.SLS). Rob Kassel MIT Spoken Language Systems Group
alexis@panix.uucp (Alexis Rosen) (10/31/90)
I have a suggestion for both of you, though I can't guarantee that it will
work. (I don't _think_ it will fail, but I haven't tested it in your config.)
Buy Liason instead of the Internet Router. Farallon just sent me the 3.0
golden release, and it should be available at dealers and MacConnection by
now. It speaks Phase 2 (which 2.0.x didn't).
My limited testing during Beta didn't turn up any problems running with
AppleShare. Still, the ethernet it was routing to wasn't very busy.
(BTW, why did you put a 1-bit card on the IIci?)
---
Alexis Rosen
Owner/Sysadmin, PANIX Public Access Unix
{cmcl2,apple}!panix!alexisalexis@panix.uucp (Alexis Rosen) (10/31/90)
One other note- QuickMail 2.2.1 had some nasty problems, although I don't
remember if it was specificly server-unfriendly. Try upgrading to 2.2.3.
In fact, come to think of it, _all_ QuickMail version that I've tested tend
to make servers flaky. However, I've only seen it crash the server when the
server itself is being used. For example, by launching the spooler, or using
the Control Panel, or changing things in the Admin program. This is not good,
but if your configuration is stable, it's survivable. My clients tend to run
the Qmail server on a Plus with a cheap HD.
---
Alexis Rosen
Owner/Sysadmin, PANIX Public Access Unix
{cmcl2,apple}!panix!alexishumes@mtsd.uucp (VINCE HUMES) (11/02/90)
In article <1990Oct28.232544.9462@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu>, rob@lcs.mit.edu (Rob Kassel) writes: I've left the original message and reply at the end of this reponse for reference purposes. I just found this out yesterday, November 1, 1990. It appears that this problem is unique to the IIci. Here's the problem: THe IIci has the video chips on the motherboard (unlike the IIcx which you need a card for). Apparently the Ethertalk driver has a problem with this and generates errors in the ethernet packets and the router gets in a loop and crashes the server. The fix is to geta new version of the ethernet driver. This is not relased because the engineers just finished making the changes. One note of caution: you must install this using the latest version of the network installer. MMy understanding is there are two files--one on the installer disk and one on the ethertalk version 2.0.2 disk. We were able to make the network crash, so after I installed the new software I put the network through the motions to make it crash and could not. Seems to have fixed the problem. If you can't get this, let me know and I'll see if our local Apple SE can help you out. > In article <49@mtsd.uucp> humes@mtsd.uucp (VINCE HUMES) writes: >>I am having a problem with an Apple Internet. First I'll describe my >>configuration and then the problem. >> >>The problem is when usage over the routers increases, the fileservers will lock >>up and the workstations get an "Unexpected Shutdown" Error. Sometimes only one >>or two servers crash, other times the entire network crashes. The problem >>always seems to occur when there is activity over the internet routers. >> > > Our fileserver/router has had the same problem! Typically, we get > crashes when someone sends a large print job, often one with a large > bitmapped graphic. I've had a tough time finding someone at apple to > listen as our N&C answerline subscription ran out long ago (although > Stacy there has been extremely helpful, I can't really bug her > further). Here's a sketch of our setup: > > IIci with 8Mb memory, 1-bit video card, ethertalk card (Rev L) > A pile of hard disks (4 apple 80's and 2 FWB 600's and an FWB 300) > System 6.0.5 > AppleShare File Server (2.0.1) > AppleShare Print Server (2.0, spools 5 printers) > Apple Internet Router (2.0) > QuickMail Mail Center (2.2.1) > DiskExpress II > localtalk cabling + thinwire ethertalk (used for IP data too) > Phase 2 only > GatorBox acting as backup router > > We've tried NUMEROUS things to make the machine not crash, including: > increasing the system heap, removing software/inits, using a IIfx SCSI > terminator, changing mouse and keyboard, removing some disks, and even > changing the network numbers. The only thing that seems to keep the > machine running is removing the router. > > Our solution is to disable the router and buy an Ether*Route box for > $500. We've tried for close to a year to correct the problem and > basically have given up! > > If anyone from Apple is reading this message and is interested in > trying to debug this problem, I'm willing to help in any way I can. > You can contact me via E-mail (Rob@goldilocks.lcs.mit.edu) or > AppleLink (MIT.SLS). > > Rob Kassel > MIT Spoken Language Systems Group