lpendley@netcom.UUCP (Lou Pendley) (12/27/90)
i am looking into the Mac, as a new world to venture into. i would greatly appreciate any info on Unix running on the Mac. i need to know basically at least the following questions: a) is it the same look and feel of the typical Mac b) must you purchase special Mac software that only runs under A/UX c) does anybody make software to run on A/UX d) has the industry accepted it as a viable Unix platform your input is greatly appreciated. lou.
abennett@athena.mit.edu (Andrew Bennett) (12/27/90)
In article <19450@netcom.UUCP>, lpendley@netcom.UUCP (Lou Pendley) writes: |> i am looking into the Mac, as a new world to venture into. i |> would greatly appreciate any info on Unix running on the Mac. i |> need to know basically at least the following questions: |> |> a) is it the same look and feel of the typical Mac It has some Mac look & feel features, but it also supports standard Unix shells (prompt and all). |> b) must you purchase special Mac software that only runs under A/UX The Mac OS runs as a task under A/UX. It's the same as any other Mac OS, so you can run anything in it you want. |> c) does anybody make software to run on A/UX Anything that compiles under other Unix systems should port over easily. If you want graphics, you can run X-Windows, too. I don't buy shrink-wrapped Unix software, so I can't really say who is making what for A/UX right now. |> d) has the industry accepted it as a viable Unix platform I don't know about industry, but the Air Force did. |> your input is greatly appreciated. No problem. Hope it helped. |> lou. -Drew -- Andrew Bennett abennett@mit.edu MIT Room 11-124H abennett%athena@mitvma.bitnet 77 Massachusetts Ave. Phone: (617) 253-7174 Cambridge, MA 02139 <Standard disclaimers apply> --
Lou.Pendley@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Lou Pendley) (12/28/90)
Reply-To: lpendley@netcom.UUCP
i am looking into the Mac, as a new world to venture into. i
would greatly appreciate any info on Unix running on the Mac. i
need to know basically at least the following questions:
a) is it the same look and feel of the typical Mac
b) must you purchase special Mac software that only runs under A/UX
c) does anybody make software to run on A/UX
d) has the industry accepted it as a viable Unix platform
your input is greatly appreciated.
lou.
+ Organization: Netcom- The Bay Area's Public Access Unix System {408 241-9760
guest}
--
Lou Pendley - via FidoNet node 1:105/14
UUCP: ...!{uunet!glacier, ..reed.bitnet}!busker!226!20!Lou.Pendley
INTERNET: Lou.Pendley@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORGdaven@svc.portal.com (12/28/90)
In article <19450@netcom.UUCP> lpendley@netcom.UUCP (Lou Pendley) writes: >i am looking into the Mac, as a new world to venture into. i >would greatly appreciate any info on Unix running on the Mac. i >need to know basically at least the following questions: > >a) is it the same look and feel of the typical Mac Very much so! Mac applications still look like Mac applications. The Finder running ontop of A/UX makes UNIX partitions look like regular Mac partitions. You can of course bring up a shell with a command line interface, but you still have a Mac-like window the shell lives in. Also, many UNIX commands have "Commando" interfaces. This means you get a window that shows all or most of the commands options and switches. I find this much easier for issuing commands that I'm not very familiar with. If you've ever used Commando under MPW, you'll know what A/UX's Commando is like. >b) must you purchase special Mac software that only runs under A/UX I suppose some companies do this, but if the software expects to run under System 7.0, chances are it will run under A/UX without any modification. For example, our program MicroPhone II v3.0 runs just fine under A/UX. We don't sell a special version just for A/UX. >c) does anybody make software to run on A/UX Most people make software that is compatible with A/UX, but doesn't take special advantage of A/UX. These packages must run in the MultiFinder process of A/UX. Apple is encouraging developers to write software for A/UX that uses the Mac Toolbox, but runs as a seperate process rather than a sub-process of MultiFinder. How much software of this type exists I can't guess at. >d) has the industry accepted it as a viable Unix platform I don't really know. I do know that I like the Mac Interface running on A/UX. I like it better than NeXTStep or OpenLook. I also like the fact that Apple has done a better job at hiding UNIX than NeXT has. There is no Commando like feature under NeXTStep that I know of, and I hate looking up command line options. I hate command lines period! With A/UX I see the command line far less often that with NeXTStep. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Newman | daven@svc.portal.com | AppleLink: D0025 Sofware Ventures Corp. | AOL: MicroPhone | CIS: 76004,2161 Berkeley, CA 94705 | WELL: tinman@well.sf.ca.us | (415) 644-3232
Andrew.Bennett@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Andrew Bennett) (12/28/90)
Reply-To: abennett@athena.mit.edu
In article <19450@netcom.UUCP>, lpendley@netcom.UUCP (Lou Pendley) writes:
I> i am looking into the Mac, as a new world to venture into. i
I> would greatly appreciate any info on Unix running on the Mac. i
I> need to know basically at least the following questions:
I>
I> a) is it the same look and feel of the typical Mac
It has some Mac look & feel features, but it also supports standard Unix
shells (prompt and all).
I> b) must you purchase special Mac software that only runs under A/UX
The Mac OS runs as a task under A/UX. It's the same as any other Mac OS, so
you can run anything in it you want.
I> c) does anybody make software to run on A/UX
Anything that compiles under other Unix systems should port over easily. If
you
want graphics, you can run X-Windows, too. I don't buy shrink-wrapped Unix
software, so I can't really say who is making what for A/UX right now.
I> d) has the industry accepted it as a viable Unix platform
I don't know about industry, but the Air Force did.
I> your input is greatly appreciated.
No problem. Hope it helped.
I> lou.
-Drew
--
Andrew Bennett abennett@mit.edu
MIT Room 11-124H abennett%athena@mitvma.bitnet
77 Massachusetts Ave. Phone: (617) 253-7174
Cambridge, MA 02139 <Standard disclaimers apply>
--
+ Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
--
Andrew Bennett - via FidoNet node 1:105/14
UUCP: ...!{uunet!glacier, ..reed.bitnet}!busker!226!20!Andrew.Bennett
INTERNET: Andrew.Bennett@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORGdaven@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (daven) (12/28/90)
Reply-To: daven@svc.portal.com In article <19450@netcom.UUCP> lpendley@netcom.UUCP (Lou Pendley) writes: >i am looking into the Mac, as a new world to venture into. i >would greatly appreciate any info on Unix running on the Mac. i >need to know basically at least the following questions: > >a) is it the same look and feel of the typical Mac Very much so! Mac applications still look like Mac applications. The Finder running ontop of A/UX makes UNIX partitions look like regular Mac partitions. You can of course bring up a shell with a command line interface, but you still have a Mac-like window the shell lives in. Also, many UNIX commands have "Commando" interfaces. This means you get a window that shows all or most of the commands options and switches. I find this much easier for issuing commands that I'm not very familiar with. If you've ever used Commando under MPW, you'll know what A/UX's Commando is like. >b) must you purchase special Mac software that only runs under A/UX I suppose some companies do this, but if the software expects to run under System 7.0, chances are it will run under A/UX without any modification. For example, our program MicroPhone II v3.0 runs just fine under A/UX. We don't sell a special version just for A/UX. >c) does anybody make software to run on A/UX Most people make software that is compatible with A/UX, but doesn't take special advantage of A/UX. These packages must run in the MultiFinder process of A/UX. Apple is encouraging developers to write software for A/UX that uses the Mac Toolbox, but runs as a seperate process rather than a sub-process of MultiFinder. How much software of this type exists I can't guess at. >d) has the industry accepted it as a viable Unix platform I don't really know. I do know that I like the Mac Interface running on A/UX. I like it better than NeXTStep or OpenLook. I also like the fact that Apple has done a better job at hiding UNIX than NeXT has. There is no Commando like feature under NeXTStep that I know of, and I hate looking up command line options. I hate command lines period! With A/UX I see the command line far less often that with NeXTStep. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Newman I daven@svc.portal.com I AppleLink: D0025 Sofware Ventures Corp. I AOL: MicroPhone I CIS: 76004,2161 Berkeley, CA 94705 I WELL: tinman@well.sf.ca.us I (415) 644-3232 + Organization: Software Ventures -- daven - via FidoNet node 1:105/14 UUCP: ...!{uunet!glacier, ..reed.bitnet}!busker!226!20!daven INTERNET: daven@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG
gee@client2.DRETOR.UUCP (Thomas Gee ) (12/28/90)
In article <1990Dec27.145308.22612@athena.mit.edu> abennett@athena.mit.edu (Andrew Bennett) writes: >|> b) must you purchase special Mac software that only runs under A/UX > >The Mac OS runs as a task under A/UX. It's the same as any other Mac OS, so >you can run anything in it you want. Not quite true. I have a number of programs that bomb hideously under A/UX. Not surprisingly, *many* INIT's and CDEV's do not run under A/UX. In my experience, this includes both Moire (it runs, but clicking on the Control Panel entry freezes the computer) and QuicKeys (both versions 1 & 2). As well, I run into continual problems with collisions between access permissions and Mac applications. Many (most?) applications have *very bad* error recovery and announcement facilities. A case in point: MacWrite II. Like most Unix systems, I set the access permissions on "/" to 666 (thats "dr-xr-xr-x" for you beginners :-). MacWrite II creates a temporary file under "/". So, invoke MacWrite II and CRASH (panic: alloc: dup alloc). Lovely. Very graceful. >|> c) does anybody make software to run on A/UX > >Anything that compiles under other Unix systems should port over easily. If you >want graphics, you can run X-Windows, too. I don't buy shrink-wrapped Unix >software, so I can't really say who is making what for A/UX right now. I think there's a list of A/UX software on sumex. >|> lou. > >-Drew Overall, despite my negative comments, I'm very pleased with A/UX. I was slightly horrified at first when I was asked to work on a Mac (being a reasonably old-time Unix fanatic), but A/UX has since assuaged my fears. The developers have done a wonderful job of integrating two operating systems (and more importantly operating system paradigms) in a remarkably transparent manner. Nice package! Tom. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thomas Gee | Aerospace Group | a man in search of a quote DCIEM, DND | Canada | gee@dretor.dciem.dnd.ca ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Disclaimer: I am not the official voice of DCIEM.
rmtodd@servalan.uucp (Richard Todd) (12/29/90)
Followups diverted to comp.unix.aux, since this is pretty Unix-specific stuff here... gee@client2.DRETOR.UUCP (Thomas Gee ) writes: >As well, I run into continual problems with collisions between access >permissions and Mac applications. Many (most?) applications have *very bad* >error recovery and announcement facilities. Very true, but I'm not sure how much that's got to do with your problems here... > A case in point: MacWrite II. >Like most Unix systems, I set the access permissions on "/" to 666 >(thats "dr-xr-xr-x" for you beginners :-). I hope you actually set it to 755 or 755 (that's "drwxr-xr-x" or "dr-xr-xr-x"); setting it to 666 ("drw-rw-rw-") will cause all sorts of havoc for programs that expect to be able to use paths starting from "/" (i.e. practically everything). >(thats "dr-xr-xr-x" for you beginners :-). MacWrite II creates a temporary >file under "/". So, invoke MacWrite II and CRASH (panic: alloc: dup alloc). >Lovely. Very graceful. I *seriously* doubt that anything MacWrite II did caused that panic, except insofar as MacWrite happened to find a part of your filesystem that was corrupted. That panic (meaning that the filesystem code tried to allocate a block that was already allocated to some file) means that some part of the filesystem structure on disk was seriously confused. Be sure to run fsck on that filesystem as soon as possible just to make sure there's nothing still wrong with it. As for running MacWrite II under A/UX, I'm pretty sure a friend of mine has done it without problems (personally,I use Epoch and TeX and avoid Mac word processors like the plague :-). I'll ask him next chance I get to see if there's anything special he had to do... While I'm here, I might as well comment on one way in which Unix-style permissions help MacOS a lot. I'm sure all of you who use MacOS have experienced the dread disorder of Creeping System Corruption, where your system starts to act more and more strangely until you surrender and re-install the System. Well, this happened to me under A/UX on the copy of the System used to run MacOS programs under A/UX, so after re-installing the System file from the distribution disks, I changed it to mode 444 (that's r--r--r--, i.e. read-only, for you beginners :-). Funny, but I haven't had a case of Creeping System Corruption since... -- Richard Todd rmtodd@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu rmtodd@chinet.chi.il.us rmtodd@servalan.uucp "Try looking in the Yellow Pages under 'Psychotics'." -- Michael Santana
Thomas.Gee@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Thomas Gee) (12/29/90)
Reply-To: gee@client2.DRETOR.UUCP In article <1990Dec27.145308.22612@athena.mit.edu> abennett@athena.mit.edu (Andrew Bennett) writes: >I> b) must you purchase special Mac software that only runs under A/UX > >The Mac OS runs as a task under A/UX. It's the same as any other Mac OS, so >you can run anything in it you want. Not quite true. I have a number of programs that bomb hideously under A/UX. Not surprisingly, *many* INIT's and CDEV's do not run under A/UX. In my experience, this includes both Moire (it runs, but clicking on the Control Panel entry freezes the computer) and QuicKeys (both versions 1 & 2). As well, I run into continual problems with collisions between access permissions and Mac applications. Many (most?) applications have *very bad* error recovery and announcement facilities. A case in point: MacWrite II. Like most Unix systems, I set the access permissions on "/" to 666 (thats "dr-xr-xr-x" for you beginners :-). MacWrite II creates a temporary file under "/". So, invoke MacWrite II and CRASH (panic: alloc: dup alloc). Lovely. Very graceful. >I> c) does anybody make software to run on A/UX > >Anything that compiles under other Unix systems should port over easily. If you >want graphics, you can run X-Windows, too. I don't buy shrink-wrapped Unix >software, so I can't really say who is making what for A/UX right now. I think there's a list of A/UX software on sumex. >I> lou. > >-Drew Overall, despite my negative comments, I'm very pleased with A/UX. I was slightly horrified at first when I was asked to work on a Mac (being a reasonably old-time Unix fanatic), but A/UX has since assuaged my fears. The developers have done a wonderful job of integrating two operating systems (and more importantly operating system paradigms) in a remarkably transparent manner. Nice package! Tom. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thomas Gee I Aerospace Group I a man in search of a quote DCIEM, DND I Canada I gee@dretor.dciem.dnd.ca ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Disclaimer: I am not the official voice of DCIEM. + Organization: Defence and Civil Intitute of Environmental Medicine -- Thomas Gee - via FidoNet node 1:105/14 UUCP: ...!{uunet!glacier, ..reed.bitnet}!busker!226!20!Thomas.Gee INTERNET: Thomas.Gee@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG
goldfarb@eola.cs.ucf.edu (Benjamin I. Goldfarb) (01/05/91)
What no one has said yet is that there are many incompatibilities with
various pieces of add-on hardware that work fine under MacOS but whose
manufacturers have not yet decided to support A/UX and maybe never will.
Some examples are the HP DeskWriter, The Irwin 5080 tape drive, the
Orchid MacSprint II cache accelerator for Mac II, and the Ven-Tel 2400E internal
modem for Mac II. I have talked with the various manufacturers and found that
they basically don't want to put out the effort to write the necessary
software.
Also, Adobe ATM doesn't work.
I'm beta-testing an ethernet card at present. There is no Mac II support
for it.
Get the picture?
On the positive side, there is a large list of third-party products for A/UX
that is available by ftp from Apple.
The moral is, if you're starting out fresh and you're not planning to buy
any non-mainstream Apple stuff, A/UX MAY be ok for you.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben Goldfarb uucp: {decvax,uflorida}!ucf-cs!goldfarb
University of Central Florida Internet: goldfarb@eola.cs.ucf.edu
Department of Computer Science