gaynor@magnus.ircc.ohio-state.edu (Jim Gaynor) (02/28/91)
Message crossposted to comp.sys.mac.comm and c.s.m.system. In the recent MacWEEK article proclaiming the May 13th availability date for System 7.0, one of the interesting things I noticed was the statement that System 7.0 would -not- be available via online information services. Of course, one automatically assumes services like Compuserve, America Online and such. This makes automatic sense (at least to me) - the System 7.0 distribution set is likely to be -huge-, far too much for downloading via 1200/2400 baud (and 9600 baud is just barely coming around at Compuserve). But what about the ftp archives that Apple maintains? Are they included in this pronouncement? Will System 7.0 be available via anonymous ftp, or will System Software >= 7.0 no longer be present in the archives? (Something that ought to make the bloody lawyers happy, but that'd be about it.) Larry? Dean? Anyone? -- Jim Gaynor - Systems Analyst 1 + "This is Serious. He is Lost. The Ohio State University ACS-FM-OCES | We must begin the Search at once." gaynor@magnus.ircc.ohio-state.ed | -Rabbit, from gaynor@agvax2.ag.ohio-state.edu + "The House at Pooh Corner"
francis@uchicago.edu (Francis Stracke) (03/01/91)
In article <1991Feb28.150318.11265@magnus.ircc.ohio-state.edu> gaynor@magnus.ircc.ohio-state.edu (Jim Gaynor) writes: Message crossposted to comp.sys.mac.comm and c.s.m.system. Why? [says Sys7 won't be available for download] But what about the ftp archives that Apple maintains? Are they included in this pronouncement? Will System 7.0 be available via anonymous ftp, or will System Software >= 7.0 no longer be present in the archives? (Something that ought to make the bloody lawyers happy, Excuse me--are you under the impression that *current* Systems are there? No. Don't be silly. The System is extremely copyrighted, and Apple would never give it out to just anybody. Updates, yes--but that doesn't give anybody the opportunity to violate copyright: you need the old System to get the new one. Never mind that it's not exactly difficult to get. We're talking about a company that makes you buy a license if you want to put the System on the distribution disks of your app. (Actually, the most recent update on there is 6.0.4--but then, I think they stopped putting stuff on that archive some time ago.) -- /=============================================================================\ | Francis Stracke | My opinions are my own. I don't steal them.| | Department of Mathematics |=============================================| | University of Chicago | Until you stalk and overrun, | | francis@zaphod.uchicago.edu | you can't devour anyone. -- Hobbes | \=============================================================================/
6600zot@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Jason S. White) (03/01/91)
In article <FRANCIS.91Feb28164330@daisy.uchicago.edu> francis@uchicago.edu (Francis Stracke) writes: >Excuse me--are you under the impression that *current* Systems are >there? No. Don't be silly. The System is extremely copyrighted, and >Apple would never give it out to just anybody. >Updates, yes--but that doesn't give anybody the opportunity to violate >copyright: you need the old System to get the new one. >Never mind that it's not exactly difficult to get. We're talking >about a company that makes you buy a license if you want to put the >System on the distribution disks of your app. >(Actually, the most recent update on there is 6.0.4--but then, I think >they stopped putting stuff on that archive some time ago.) >-- Excuse me--are you under the impression that *current* systems are not at apple.com? I just finished FTPing there, and what did I see? I saw system 6.0.7 with all of the utilities, the whole thing!!!! It was just a simple anonymous ftp, that's all! As for 7.0, there is a good chance. Since on can supposedly go to any authorized apple dealer and request the latest system and get it without much of a problem, I think that this will hold for posting of the overdue update. I'm also sure that they will have the update on America Online and other places like that. We have to wait until April?????? -6600zot@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Jason S. White 6600zot@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu | | jsw@sbphy.ucsb.edu | | "What do you mean entropy?" white@sgt-york.lanl.gov \ u106703@beta.lanl.gov / ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
phaedrus@milton.u.washington.edu (Mark Phaedrus) (03/01/91)
In article <FRANCIS.91Feb28164330@daisy.uchicago.edu> francis@uchicago.edu (Francis Stracke) writes: >[someone asking about whether System 7.0 will be on apple.com] > >Excuse me--are you under the impression that *current* Systems are >there? No. Don't be silly. The System is extremely copyrighted, and >Apple would never give it out to just anybody. Really? Many Apple dealers will give you any System version they have if you just bring in or buy the proper number of blank disks, and I don't think that Apple has ever been particularly opposed to that. I think the thing that has made electronic distribution a bit problematic is that the lawyers want to be able to know the names of everyone who gets system software from Apple; CI$/GEnie/etc. can theoretically provide this on request, but it's a bit difficult to manage with an anonymous ftp connection. >Updates, yes--but that doesn't give anybody the opportunity to violate >copyright: you need the old System to get the new one. All the System versions placed on apple.com have been complete; they haven't been "apply this to your System 6.0.3 disks to get 6.0.4" or anything. Of course, to unpack the images you need DiskCopy, and DiskCopy only runs with the system software already running... >(Actually, the most recent update on there is 6.0.4--but then, I think >they stopped putting stuff on that archive some time ago.) Really? I just checked apple.com three minutes ago, and they had the complete 6.0.7 set available in pub/dts/sw.license, along with the proper versions of the CD-ROM and EtherTalk software. -- Internet: phaedrus@u.washington.edu (University of Washington, Seattle) The views expressed here are not those of this station or its management. "If you can keep your head while those about you are losing theirs, consider an exciting career as a guillotine operator!"
thewho@elaine23.stanford.edu (Derek Fong) (03/01/91)
I read in MacWeek that it will cost between 60-100 dollars to upgrade to 7.0. I assume that this covers more than just the documentation since the article also said that Apple will offer 2 months of phone support for system 7.0. Therefore, I would doubt its availability via FTP as Apple wants people to PAY for their copy of System 7. ----Derek Fong---- fong@cive.stanford.edu thewho@leland.stanford.edu
breidenb@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Oliver Breidenbach) (03/01/91)
In article <FRANCIS.91Feb28164330@daisy.uchicago.edu> francis@uchicago.edu (Francis Stracke) writes: > >Updates, yes--but that doesn't give anybody the opportunity to violate >copyright: you need the old System to get the new one. > There are files containing 6.0.7 which is the most recent release. Do they contain only an update?? As far as I know Apple never fools around with updater programs so if you try to install the files on an empty HD you undoubtedly can do so. >Never mind that it's not exactly difficult to get. We're talking >about a company that makes you buy a license if you want to put the >System on the distribution disks of your app. > Due to excellent reliability of the MacOS you never have to include the system on your disk. There are a lot of PD or comercial 3rd party products performing installation operations. Oliver.
breidenb@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Oliver Breidenbach) (03/01/91)
In article <1991Mar1.085232.10303@leland.Stanford.EDU> thewho@elaine23.stanford.edu (Derek Fong) writes: >I read in MacWeek that it will cost between 60-100 dollars to upgrade to 7.0. >I assume that this covers more than just the documentation since the article >also said that Apple will offer 2 months of phone support for system 7.0. > >Therefore, I would doubt its availability via FTP as Apple wants people to >PAY for their copy of System 7. > Did you know that Apple already sells MacOS as a *seperate* product? In Germany it is about $475. (excluding Hypercard which is $75). But it comes bundled to any mac together with a licence agreement which states: Apple permits the right for use for all bundled software *including* all updates. (translated from German) So wait and see... Oliver.
gaines@mars.njit.edu (Starman) (03/01/91)
> But what about the ftp archives that Apple maintains? Are > [stuff deleted] >Excuse me--are you under the impression that *current* Systems are >there? No. Don't be silly. The System is extremely copyrighted, and >Apple would never give it out to just anybody. > Excuse ME, but have you been on Apple.Com recently? Or rascal.ics.utexas.edu? Where do you think most of us got 6.0.7 from anyway? I got mine from Apple.Com. The System is copyrighted, but several companies allow FREE upgrades; similar to Ensoniq giving free software upgrades for their keyboards. =========================================================================== "They can fly rings around the moon, | Mike but we're years ahead of them on the highway" | gaines@mars.njit.edu =========================================================================== System 7 on an 800K floppy? HA! ===========================================================================
strange@sprite.berkeley.edu (Steve Strange) (03/02/91)
I remember hearing from some reliable source that if you bought a Mac recently, you would get system 7 for free. I bought a IIsi last November, so I believe I am entitled. I don't know if this includes documentation or not. I may have read this in the papers that came with the machine -- can anyone support or deny this? Steve
roland@dna.lth.se (Roland Mansson) (03/03/91)
In article <1991Mar1.140714.2168@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE> breidenb@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Oliver Breidenbach) writes: >In article <1991Mar1.085232.10303@leland.Stanford.EDU> thewho@elaine23.stanford.edu (Derek Fong) writes: >Did you know that Apple already sells MacOS as a *seperate* product? >In Germany it is about $475. (excluding Hypercard which is $75). >But it comes bundled to any mac together with a licence agreement >which states: ... Are you sure about the price??? Apple Sweden sells it for about $80 (incl sales tax, but not HyperCard). Of course, it also bundled with every Mac. -- Roland Mansson, Lund University Computing Center, Box 783, S220 07 Lund, Sweden Phone: +46-46107436 Fax: +46-46138225 Bitnet: roland_m@seldc52 Internet: roland.mansson@ldc.lu.se or roland.mansson%ldc.lu.se@uunet.uu.net UUCP: {uunet,mcvax}!sunic!ldc.lu.se!roland.mansson AppleLink: SW0022
klingspo@mozart.cs.colostate.edu (Steve Klingsporn) (03/03/91)
Umm, you're quite wrong. I believe Apple licenses System Software for other developers to use, and you "agree" to a license when you buy a Macintosh, yet there is no such thing as "pirated" system software, for when you buy a Macintosh, you have license to any and all system software (A/UX not included) that Apple will release. Check bbs's -- it's there. Check America Online, CompuServe, etc. -- it's there. How do you prove you're a mac user? Bring in a floppy w/ an Apple on it? Bring in your Mac? People who aren't Mac users don't have a use for SysSoft anyhow. :) Steve .
sl242030@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Robert P. Humphrey) (03/04/91)
Well, it's out. According to a friend of mine who is on the
Apple mailing list (He runs a BBS, and they send him all system
software updates, as well as Hypercard 2.0, etc. . .), System 7.0 will
not be available on any BBS or FTP site, including apple.com and
ftp.apple.com, but will only be available from a licenced Apple
dealer, and (this is the kicker),
It will cost $50. (I guess they want to make some money off
of this one.)
--
*******************************************************************************
Robert Humphrey, "It's easy to grin when your ship comes in,
Gentleman Scholar And you've got the stock market beat;
But the man worthwhile, Is the man who can smile,
sl242030@ucs.indiana.edu When his shorts are too tight in the seat."
-Ted Knight, Caddyshack
*******************************************************************************hamilton@kickapoo.cs.iastate.edu (Jon Hamilton) (03/04/91)
klingspo@mozart.cs.colostate.edu (Steve Klingsporn) writes: >Umm, you're quite wrong. I believe Apple licenses System Software for other >developers to use, and you "agree" to a license when you buy a Macintosh, >yet there is no such thing as "pirated" system software, for when >you buy a Macintosh, you have license to any and all system software >(A/UX not included) that Apple will release. You are indeed licensed to use Apple's System Software when you buy a Mac. As with most licensing agreements, there are restrictions. If you look closely you will find that you can only use the software on an Apple machine. See below for more on this topic. >Check bbs's -- it's there. In most cases, it shouldn't be. You need a license to distribute it (and, no matter what anybody tells you, you need a similar license to distribute ResEdit). >Check America Online, CompuServe, etc. -- it's there. That's because they're licensed to redistribute it. >How do you prove you're a mac user? Bring in a floppy w/ an Apple on it? >Bring in your Mac? >People who aren't Mac users don't have a use for SysSoft anyhow. :) What about all the people with AMAXs and Atari emulators? >Steve >. I'm terribly sorry to burst your bubble with some facts and reality. -- % Internet : hamilton@kickapoo.cs.iastate.edu | Insert cute and/or % % America Online : JonHam | deeply meaningful % % Elsewhere : ThatGeek@his.little.corner | musical quote here %
nick@cs.edinburgh.ac.uk (Nick Rothwell) (03/04/91)
In article <1991Mar1.085232.10303@leland.Stanford.EDU>, thewho@elaine23.stanford.edu (Derek Fong) writes: > I read in MacWeek that it will cost between 60-100 dollars to upgrade to 7.0. > I assume that this covers more than just the documentation since the article > also said that Apple will offer 2 months of phone support for system 7.0. It will therefore be free in Europe since Apple won't be offering this phone support outside the US...? > Therefore, I would doubt its availability via FTP as Apple wants people to > PAY for their copy of System 7. Thus splitting the Mac OS environment completely, as the dealers in the UK tend to be pretty clueless about upgrades and the like, and as a result most of the non-US machines will just stick at System 6.0.x which is free and easily available. -- Nick Rothwell, Laboratory for Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh. nick@lfcs.ed.ac.uk <Atlantic Ocean>!mcsun!ukc!lfcs!nick ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ Captain Waldorf has analogue filters. You do not. ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ Do not try to imitate them or any of their actions. ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~
breidenb@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Oliver Breidenbach) (03/05/91)
In article <1991Mar2.191547.26344@lth.se> roland@dna.lth.se (Roland Mansson) writes: >In article <1991Mar1.140714.2168@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE> breidenb@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Oliver Breidenbach) writes: >>Did you know that Apple already sells MacOS as a *seperate* product? >>In Germany it is about $475. (excluding Hypercard which is $75). >>But it comes bundled to any mac together with a licence agreement >... >Are you sure about the price??? Apple Sweden sells it for about $80 (incl >sales tax, but not HyperCard). Of course, it also bundled with every Mac. >-- interessting, they sell it in five-packs. Sorry. So it is about $95 incl. VAT. (143 DM; at a current 1,50 DM = $1). Oliver.
piper@s5000.rsvl.unisys.com (Piper Keairnes) (03/05/91)
thewho@elaine23.stanford.edu (Derek Fong) writes: >I read in MacWeek that it will cost between 60-100 dollars to upgrade to 7.0. >I assume that this covers more than just the documentation since the article >also said that Apple will offer 2 months of phone support for system 7.0. >Therefore, I would doubt its availability via FTP as Apple wants people to >PAY for their copy of System 7. You can also PAY for the latest System 6.0.x release at your nearest Computerland. When you buy the upgrade, you are buying manuals, disks, registration, etc. Or, you can take in your old system disks (to show proof of ownership) and some blank disks and walk away with a free copy of the System release disks. I'd imagine that the same will be true for System 7.0. Though, I believe there will be enough significant changes and additions to the operating system that many people will opt to buy the upgrade so they have manuals. I know I will. -- Piper Keairnes * piper@rsvl.unisys.com * Purdue Univ. Unisys Corporation * uunet!rsvl.unisys.com!piper * Computing Center Open Software Products * 1410 Carling Dr, St Paul, MN 55108 * Consultant
cs4304ak@evax.arl.utexas.edu (David Richardson) (03/05/91)
In article <1991Mar3.194034.1565@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> sl242030@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Robert P. Humphrey) writes: > It will cost $50. (I guess they want to make some money off >of this one.) Didn't apple try that for system release 5.0 (actually finder 5.4, I think, & system version 4.x)? Of course, that came with fancy manuals. I guess they are preparing for the Mac-Clones. Does this mean Jackintosh owners can buy system 7.0 (like the rest of us :^( ). -- David Richardson U. Texas at Arlington +1 817 856 6637 PO Box 192053 Usually hailing from: b645zax@utarlg.uta.edu Arlington, TX 76019 b645zax@utarlg.bitnet, SPAN: UTSPAN::UTADNX::UTARLG::B645ZAX -2053 USA The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want.
jyen@Apple.COM (John Yen) (03/06/91)
Ok, there've been too many questions about these issues. 1) 7.0 will have a cost of $0.00 for the software. You pay if and only if you want anything besides the software itself. This is _not_ changed from the current policy, at least in the US. The above, so far as I know, is For Real Apple Policy. #2 is strictly IMHO. 2) Since the software will be given out/sold under the same policy as for previous system software, I don't expect anything else to change either -- ie, 7.0 will probably be available on apple.com. Back to facts again: 3) There is no system script language called Applescript in 7.0. There _are_, however, AppleEvents as part of Interapplication Communications. 4) to Greg and Dean and whoever else at Apple's reading this: I'm typing this in between scarfing down lunch; chill out, I'm testing, I'm testing... We now return to your regularly scheduled etc. John Yen jyen@apple.com 7.0 kernel test team
sl242030@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Robert P. Humphrey) (03/06/91)
>Or, you can take in your old system disks (to show proof >of ownership) and some blank disks and walk away with a free copy of >the System release disks. Nope. According to Apple, no free-be's will be give out. The only tender for a trade-in will be a check for $50. -- ******************************************************************************* Robert Humphrey, "It's easy to grin when your ship comes in, Gentleman Scholar And you've got the stock market beat; But the man worthwhile, Is the man who can smile, sl242030@ucs.indiana.edu When his shorts are too tight in the seat." -Ted Knight, Caddyshack *******************************************************************************
john@newave.UUCP (John A. Weeks III) (03/06/91)
In article <1991Mar3.194034.1565@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> sl242030@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Robert P. Humphrey) writes: > System 7.0 will ... will only be available from a licenced Apple > dealer, and (this is the kicker), It will cost $50. > (I guess they want to make some money off of this one.) Short memory! All past apple system software kits costed $50, including System 5 and System 6. The $50 covered the disks and manual sets. Dealers were free to allow Mac owners to copy the system software if they so desired. Many of us are wondering if the "free" copies will be available, but. I would assume that one should read the new manuals at least once, so maybe $50 is not unreasonable. Please also contrast this with DOS, where upgrades cost $100. -john- -- =============================================================================== John A. Weeks III (612) 942-6969 john@newave.mn.org NeWave Communications ...uunet!rosevax!tcnet!wd0gol!newave!john ===============================================================================
kscott@cgl.ucsf.edu (Kevin Scott) (03/06/91)
piper@s5000.rsvl.unisys.com (Piper Keairnes) writes: >You can also PAY for the latest System 6.0.x release at your nearest >Computerland. When you buy the upgrade, you are buying manuals, disks, >registration, etc. Or, you can take in your old system disks (to show proof >of ownership) and some blank disks and walk away with a free copy of the >System release disks. Good point. I would also add that even if apple doesn'tpost 7.0 right away, it will be posting 7.01 shrtly after 7.0 comes out. There are bound to be a few problems and apple will (as much as I like to bash apple, I must concede) try and fix and distribute a new system. I consider the mac a hobby as well as a research tool, but I am busy enough that I will not use 7.0 when it first comes out becuase of the likely decrease in my productivity 7.0 would effect. I will read the net to see, just in case it is particularly bug free.
Jim.Spencer@p510.f22.n282.z1.mmug.edgar.mn.org.org (Jim Spencer) (03/07/91)
Steve Strange writes in a message to All SS> I remember hearing from some reliable source that if you bought SS> a Mac recently, you would get system 7 for free. I bought a IIsi SS> last November, so I believe I am entitled. I don't know if this SS> includes documentation or not. I may have read this in the papers SS> that came with the machine -- can anyone support or deny this? The word I keep hearing is that System 7.0 will be basically distributed just like the previous versions of system software, i.e. it will be free to all Mac owners not just to those who purchased a Mac recently. The only change that I'm aware of it that it may not be available from on-line sources because of its size. Presumably the same restrictions will apply to 7.0 that have applied to 6.x: it won't include documentation but you will be able to buy a set that includes manuals if you want.
bschmidt@bnr.ca (Ben Schmidt (BNR)) (03/09/91)
In article <668300445.4@mmug.mmug.edgar.mn.org.org> Jim.Spencer@p510.f22.n282.z1.mmug.edgar.mn.org.org (Jim Spencer) writes: > The word I keep hearing is that System 7.0 will be basically distributed just like the previous versions of system software, i.e. it will be free to all Mac owners not just to those who purchased a Mac recently. The only change that I'm aware of it that it may not be available from on-line sources because of its size. Presumably the same restrictions will apply to 7.0 ^^^^^ Huh? Since when was apple concerned about the $$ one pays for compuserve or applelink? Size is not an argument against posting Sys. 7.0, rather it's an *incentive* for the commercial operators to post. As for apple.com, if posting Sys. 7.0 is going to bog down their ftp server, why not limit anonymous ftp access to say 25 simultaneous logins like Sumex-aim.stanford.edu recently did? Or just take the apple.com ftp server off a Mac and run it on a SPARC. :-) :-) Ben Schmidt Bell-Northern Research, Ltd. bschmidt@bnr.ca
Adam.Frix@p18.f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Adam Frix) (03/09/91)
sl242030@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Robert P. Humphrey) writes: >Or, you can take in your old system disks (to show proof >of ownership) and some blank disks and walk away with a free copy of >the System release disks. RPH> Nope. According to Apple, no free-be's will be give out. The RPH> only tender for a trade-in will be a check for $50. According to _whom_ at Apple? Names, we need names. Why? Because, until System 7 comes out, I sincerely doubt that there's _any_ official Apple policy concerning its distribution. It still officially doesn't exist, and therefore can't have any distribution policy connected to it. So whomever you spoke with was obviously speaking unofficially and off the record, and you should disclaim that before stating what he/she says as fact. I'm tired, real tired, of hearing "Well, I heard..." from everybody about system 7. Claim your speculations as speculations, claim your facts as facts, and keep the two separate. Whenever I hear "I heard from some guy...", I immediately consider the _opposite_ of whatever follows, and usually that opposite is equally a likely candidate for being true. What's Latin for "reader beware?" --Adam-- -- Adam Frix via cmhGate - Net 226 fido<=>uucp gateway Col, OH UUCP: ...!osu-cis!n8emr!cmhgate!20.18!Adam.Frix INET: Adam.Frix@p18.f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG
grobbins@Apple.COM (Grobbins) (03/09/91)
Folks, it is unclear at this time if System 7 will be available via anonymous ftp from an Apple site. We really don't know. Any "official word" you may hear about certainly hasn't made it to Mark Johnson, the manager of the apple.com site. He is hoping to make System 7 available immediately upon its release. Grobbins grobbins@apple.com Apple Developer Technical Support
marcv@reed.UUCP (Marc Visnick) (03/09/91)
In article <668300445.4@mmug.mmug.edgar.mn.org.org> Jim.Spencer@p510.f22.n282.z1.mmug.edgar.mn.org.org (Jim Spencer) writes: > >The word I keep hearing is that System 7.0 will be basically distributed just like the previous versions of system software, i.e. it will be free to all Mac owners not just to those who purchased a Mac recently. The only change that I'm aware of it that it may not be available from on-line sources because of its size. Presumably the same restrictions will apply to 7.0 that have applied to 6.x: it won't include documentation but you will be able to buy a set that includes manuals if you want. > My understanding (as gleaned from publications, newsgroup chatter and rumor) is that distribution will be through dealers _only_ (not through FTP or other online sources), and will be between $50-100. Presumably, this includes documentation and the unprecedented 90-day tech support. (By-line: A couple weeks ago, Apple placed an ad in the UC Berkeley newspaper, looking for students to staff its hotlines.) Another kit will be available to users installing 7.0 on multiple systems. It will be on CD-ROM, and will include on-line documentation. (Pricing on this kit is not yet known.) The remaining question is: can those of us (The Rest Of Us?) who have no need for docs or support bring a couple of blanks into C-land or B-land or wherever to get copies of 7.0? Anyone? -- /-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\ | Marc Visnick | marcv@reed.BITNET or | | Box 615, Reed College, Portland, OR 97202 | ...!tektronix!reed!marcv | \-----------------------------------------------------------------------------/
Adam.Frix@p18.f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Adam Frix) (03/10/91)
john@newave.UUCP (John A. Weeks Iii) writes:
JAW> I would assume that one should read the new manuals at least
JAW> once, so maybe $50 is not unreasonable. Please also contrast
JAW> this with DOS, where upgrades cost $100.
And I picked up a PC-oriented magazine a couple months ago where a columnist was discussing upgrading MS-DOS systems. His bottom line, stated simply, was "Don't do it unless you have some specific need for the upgrade. If it's not broken, don't try to fix it." This was based on some gobbledy-gook that he claimed was necessary in order to install a new DOS. It involved getting down and dirty with the hard drive, to places where Charles McConathy would have a drink before messing with. So it looked to m
e like DOS upgrades were best done by an experienced professional, and maybe some voodoo chants wouldn't hurt, either. I was rather surprised to see that in 1991, the high priests still live.
But the Mac world is certainly getting more complicated. Consider: coming back _down_ from System 7 to something earlier will require _much_ more thought than similar downgrades did before. You'll at least have the Trash folder and the desktop manager files to pay attention to, as well as all those new sub-System folders. So when going up to System 7, just be aware that you'd better be reasonably sure you want to do it, and be reasonably prepared to do some work if you decide to come back down to Syste
m 6.
--Adam--
--
Adam Frix via cmhGate - Net 226 fido<=>uucp gateway Col, OH
UUCP: ...!osu-cis!n8emr!cmhgate!20.18!Adam.Frix
INET: Adam.Frix@p18.f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORGpeirce@outpost.UUCP (Michael Peirce) (03/13/91)
In article <169861.27DBADCD@cmhgate.FIDONET.ORG>, Adam.Frix@p18.f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Adam Frix) writes:> > > But the Mac world is certainly getting more complicated. Consider: coming back > _down_ from System 7 to something earlier will require _much_ more thought than > similar downgrades did before. You'll at least have the Trash folder and the > desktop managerles to pay attention to, as well as all those new sub-System > folders. So when going up to System 7, just be aware that you'd better be > reasonably sure you want to do it, and be reasonably prepared to do some work > if you decide to come back down to Syse It's not really that bad. A couple of things happen: You have a Desktop Folder that contains all the files that used to be sitting on the desktop. Mildly inconvenient, but no big deal. You pretty much need a seperate system folder for sys 6 & sys 7. The structure has changed too much. Again, a small pain. When you switch back up to sys 7, it rescans the disk so the desktop manager is up to date. This doesn't happen when going back to sys 6. That's about it. I often switch between the two and don't find it very hard to do. Of course, once it goes final, I see VERY little reason to go back to sys 6 once you start using sys 7. It's that much better. -- michael -- Michael Peirce -- outpost!peirce@claris.com -- Peirce Software -- Suite 301, 719 Hibiscus Place -- Macintosh Programming -- San Jose, California 95117 -- & Consulting -- (408) 244-6554, AppleLink: PEIRCE
nwc1@quads.uchicago.edu (Einstuerzende Neubauten) (03/13/91)
Latin for reader beware: "Caveat Lector", I guess. Also, I disagree with the statement that System 7.0 doesn't officially exist. Apple has put out numerous press releases, etc. And I can tell that it will be great. "late May"? Too bad.
6600dtam@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Marc "Tae-Kwon" Tamsky) (03/13/91)
In article <0B010004.y8e4ga@outpost.UUCP> peirce@outpost.UUCP (Michael Peirce) writes: >> if you decide to come back down to Syse >It's not really that bad. A couple of things happen: >You have a Desktop Folder that contains all the files that used to >be sitting on the desktop. Mildly inconvenient, but no big deal. >You pretty much need a seperate system folder for sys 6 & sys 7. >The structure has changed too much. Again, a small pain. >When you switch back up to sys 7, it rescans the disk so the desktop >manager is up to date. This doesn't happen when going back to sys 6. >That's about it. I often switch between the two and don't find it >very hard to do. Of course, once it goes final, I see VERY little >reason to go back to sys 6 once you start using sys 7. It's that much >better. I really don't like the fact that I can't use Norton Utilities to fix stuff that goes wrong with my HD partitions that get "fixed" by 7.0. I'd feel a lot safer if Norton could keep me safe at the same time I enjoy using 7.0. Just my 2 cents. -- = Marc Tamsky Under Capitalism, man expoits man. = = 6600dtam@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu Under Communism, it's just the opposite. = = POB 12600, UCSB -J K Galbraith. = = Santa Barbara, CA 93107 (805)-562-5645 =