[comp.sys.mac.system] System 7 Aliases - only half there

t-jacobs@ced.utah.edu (03/15/91)

First of all let me say that I LOVE ALIASES and they are going to make MacLife
a whole lot better. My following comments are only intended to encourage Apple
to make them work everywhere.

The first problem I ran into is that you can't create an Alias of a file on a
file server if the folder is read only. Easy solution: allow a shortcut to
making an Alias by option-shift-dragging the file to the destination to create
an alias at the destination. This makes is possible to make aliases of
read-only folder items. This also speeds up the process for regular aliases
too. 

Aliases don't work in many places. Many programs and utilities go looking for
stuff in the System folder. It appears that they look for the file by name and
upon finding it do a resource open which of course opens up the Alias file and
not the file it points to! It seems like the low level stuff ought to point any
kind of "OPEN" to an Alias file to the actual file. If an Alias file needs to
be opened then some kind of special open should be called.

Even the System itself doesn't do the right thing!!!!!! You can't have an Alias
of any of the special system folders (Apple Menu, Extensions, Controls,
Preferences, etc) replace the actual folder. Meaning the real folder is
somewhere else other that the System folder and the Alias is in the System
folder. I WANT THIS FEATURE!

I would like to make aliases of downloadable laser files and put them in the
Extensions folder so I don't have to keep the actual files around locally.
Meaning I want the aliases to point to real files on the file server. Printing
doesn't work this way (at least not in System 7b4).

FOR FUTURE CONSUMPTION: How about aliases to resources inside files! That could
allow applications to have shared code or other resources. Kind of a lower
level publish & suscribe of sorts!

Tony Jacobs
Center for Engineering Design
University of Utah
t-jacobs@ced.utah.edu

bskendig@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Brian Kendig) (03/15/91)

In article <1991Mar14.203258.16538@fcom.cc.utah.edu> t-jacobs@ced.utah.edu writes:
>.... allow a shortcut to
>making an Alias by option-shift-dragging the file to the destination to create
>an alias at the destination. This makes is possible to make aliases of
>read-only folder items. This also speeds up the process for regular aliases
>too. 

Hear, hear!  This is a wonderful idea.  "Duplicate" from the File menu
has both a command-key equivalent (Command-D) and a shortcut (option-
dragging); why is it that "Make Alias" (which I feel is going to be
used more than Duplicate) has neither?  Option-shift-dragging seems
like the perfect shortcut to me.

>Aliases don't work in many places. Many programs and utilities go looking for
>stuff in the System folder. It appears that they look for the file by name and
>upon finding it do a resource open which of course opens up the Alias file and
>not the file it points to! It seems like the low level stuff ought to point
>any kind of "OPEN" to an Alias file to the actual file. If an Alias file needs
>to be opened then some kind of special open should be called.

Hear, hear!  I had both System 6 and System 7 on my hard drive at once
for a while, and to cut down on disk usage I aliased a lot of INITs
from my System 6 folder into the System 7 folder rather than making
duplicate copies of them.  I didn't even get a warning -- they didn't
work.  It was as if the aliases weren't even there.  Why can't I alias
my INITs and cdevs?

>Even the System itself doesn't do the right thing!!!!!! You can't have an
>Alias of any of the special system folders (Apple Menu, Extensions, Controls,
>Preferences, etc) replace the actual folder. Meaning the real folder is
>somewhere else other that the System folder and the Alias is in the System
>folder. I WANT THIS FEATURE!

So do I!  It sems rather flaky to me to have aliases be essentially
the real things elsewhere, but not in the System Folder.

>I would like to make aliases of downloadable laser files and put them in the
>Extensions folder so I don't have to keep the actual files around locally.
>Meaning I want the aliases to point to real files on the file server. Printing
>doesn't work this way (at least not in System 7b4).

Hear, hear!  And I'd *love* a folder to put my Adobe Type 1 font files
into.  Right now my System Folder has about ten to fifteen folders and
other system files sitting in it, and about forty Adobe font files.
This would be bearable if only Suitcase II worked with System 7.0,
which it still doesn't (version 1.2.8 conflicts nastily with the 7.0b1
Finder), but shouldn't the LaserWriter drivers be able to be told
where to find their PostScript font files?  So much for reducing
System Folder clutter!

>FOR FUTURE CONSUMPTION: How about aliases to resources inside files! That
>could allow applications to have shared code or other resources. Kind of a
>lower level publish & suscribe of sorts!

Sounds kinky!  But really, I don't know if this is necessary.  If
files have to share code, you create some sort of `engine' file they
can both work off.  Shared resources are best placed in a temp file or
a preferences file.

     << Brian >>

| Brian S. Kendig      \ Macintosh |   Engineering,   | bskendig             |
| Computer Engineering |\ Thought  |  USS Enterprise  | @phoenix.Princeton.EDU
| Princeton University |_\ Police  | -= NCC-1701-D =- | @PUCC.BITNET         |
"It's not that I don't HAVE the work to *do* -- I don't DO the work I *have*."

bernard@cs.colorado.edu (Bernie Bernstein) (03/16/91)

In article <7174@idunno.Princeton.EDU>, bskendig@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Brian Kendig) writes:
> 
> In article <1991Mar14.203258.16538@fcom.cc.utah.edu> t-jacobs@ced.utah.edu writes:
> >.... allow a shortcut to
> >making an Alias by option-shift-dragging the file to the destination to create
> >an alias at the destination. This makes is possible to make aliases of
> >read-only folder items. This also speeds up the process for regular aliases
> >too. 
> 
> Hear, hear!  This is a wonderful idea.  "Duplicate" from the File menu
> has both a command-key equivalent (Command-D) and a shortcut (option-
> dragging); why is it that "Make Alias" (which I feel is going to be
> used more than Duplicate) has neither?  Option-shift-dragging seems
> like the perfect shortcut to me.
> 

I agree that this would be a great feature for me and you, but I think we
should see how cautious Apple is being about aliases.  This is the first
time that the desktop metaphor is displaying something that isn't really
there.  This is a new concept for most  (non-technical) people.  Normally
in the finder, if you see a file, that is the only place that it exists.  If
you make a copy of the file, it is just that... a copy of the entire file.

Imagine the dismay a novice user will be in when they click on an icon here
and a file opens from a folder over there.  I guess the designers had to
do lots of convincing to the human interfacers to get aliases in 7.0
in the first place.

Aliases are not completely intuitive, and therefore Apple doesn't want them
to appear on the novices desktop unless they know what they are doing.  I can
picture a novice making an alias to a file then a week later, kill the original 
because they didn't know they were actually using it when they click on that 
other icon (the one in italics).  I guess that is why they put "alias" on the
end of the name of all aliases when they are created.

Also remember that you can make aliases from servers or other disks.  If it
is very easy to make aliases, it might become habit to option-shift-drag
things when you meant to just option-drag or just drag it.  If I copy 
something from a floppy disk, I probably want a copy of it and not
an alias to it.

I'm sure it won't be long before someone writes an init which adds the
feature of option-shift-drag to make an alias to a file (without "alias"
in the name?) and I will be among the first to use it, but as far as the
design decision to make aliases the way they are, I will agree with
Apple.


> >Even the System itself doesn't do the right thing!!!!!! You can't have an
> >Alias of any of the special system folders (Apple Menu, Extensions, Controls,
> >Preferences, etc) replace the actual folder. Meaning the real folder is
> >somewhere else other that the System folder and the Alias is in the System
> >folder. I WANT THIS FEATURE!
> 
> So do I!  It sems rather flaky to me to have aliases be essentially
> the real things elsewhere, but not in the System Folder.
> 

I think it is a little late to be asking for features for 7.0, but maybe
they can start thinking about 7.1.  I wonder if Apple knows about this
bug... it sounds like a bug to me.



      o,  ,,   ,      | Bernie Bernstein                      | ,    ,,
      L>O/  \,/ \    ,| University of Colorado at boulder     |/ \,,/  \
     O./  '  / . `, / | office: (303) 492-8136                |     / ` \  ,.
    ,/   /  ,      '  | email: bernard@cs.colorado.edu        | /        ''  \