dowdy@apple.com (Tom Dowdy) (03/13/91)
Every once in a while someone looks on apple.com for some new
piece of software and (upon not finding it) instantly jumps
to the conclusion that Apple Computer, Inc. has it in for
them personally. While I hardly speak for Apple Computer, Inc,
I thought I would try to shed some light on the apple.com and FTP
situation. You may direct any comments or flames to Mark Johnson
at mjohnson@apple.com.
Why isn't XXXX on apple.com?
Three reasons:
1) apple.com is nearly full. Because apple.com serves as an engineering
unix playstation, mail routing, news, and other server in addition
to FTP, it gets more use (both disk and CPU) than it really should.
We are trying to limit how much junk we throw up there to the things
people REALLY need.
2) Putting stuff up for FTP on apple.com isn't anyone's job. Several
people (myself and Mark Johnson included) do work on our OWN TIME to
make software available for FTP. This isn't in any of our job descriptions
and we are all kinda busy with our own jobs. In particular, of late,
System 7.0 (and preparing the CDs for developers) has been a rather
large time-sink, as one might imagine. Believe me, the LAST thing you
want to do after a 12 hour (or more) day of coding and bug fixing is
to try to wrestle with a unix FTP server!
3) We are trying to offload FTP services to another machine (ftp.apple.com)
for both CPU and disk reasons. This machine isn't ready yet, but we
are trying not to upload a bunch of stuff to apple.com only to remove
it later. This begs the next question:
Why isn't ftp.apple.com available yet?
Four reasons:
1) The machine in question is in need of a new hard disk. This is
in process (and has been for some time).
2) There are some FTP changes we need to make. Once again, this is
in process as well. These changes are to allow us to track usage
(both who is getting things, as well as which things are being
gotten). These changes will allow us (hopefully) to move this from
a part-time-seat-of-the-pants operation to one that is actually
SUPPORTED by Apple.
3) There is a great deal of grunt work that needs to be done in order
to place the quanity of software up onto ftp.apple.com that we wish to.
There are ALOT of disks and directories that need to be stuffed and
binhexed for your enjoyment. We have some MPW scripts that help
us, but it isn't all automatic - and as I said before, this is all
on our own time.
4) Legal reasons. This is perhaps the least of the concerns as it
only affects SOME of the software. There are some licensing things
going on that need to be resolved prior to placing SOME software up
for FTP. This is in process. No, I won't tell you which software it is.
In summary, we are doing this as fast as we can while not getting ourselves
fired. We will try to make really interesting software available as soon
as we can on apple.com, but we really ARE limited in what we can put
there at this time.
To try to make people happier: we will try to get the TrueType disks
up on apple.com AS SOON as humanly possible. In return, all I ask
is a little patience as we try to get all of this working.
Thank you,
Tom Dowdy Internet: dowdy@apple.COM
Apple Computer MS:81EQ UUCP: {sun,voder,amdahl,decwrl}!apple!dowdy
20525 Mariani Ave AppleLink: DOWDY1
Cupertino, CA 95014
"The 'Ooh-Ah' Bird is so called because it lays square eggs."gaynor@magnus.ircc.ohio-state.edu (Jim Gaynor) (03/14/91)
In article <50206@apple.Apple.COM> dowdy@apple.com (Tom Dowdy) writes: >Why isn't ftp.apple.com available yet? > [...] >4) Legal reasons. This is perhaps the least of the concerns as it >only affects SOME of the software. There are some licensing things >going on that need to be resolved prior to placing SOME software up >for FTP. This is in process. No, I won't tell you which software it is. "Would you like a hint?" "Yes, please." "How long can you tread water?" -- Jim Gaynor - Systems Analyst 1 + "This is Serious. He is Lost. The Ohio State University ACS-FM-OCES | We must begin the Search at once." gaynor@magnus.ircc.ohio-state.ed | -Rabbit, from gaynor@agvax2.ag.ohio-state.edu + "The House at Pooh Corner"
dorner@pequod.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Dorner) (03/14/91)
The single most helpful thing 'Apple' has done for me is the anonymous ftp site. It's a great thing you few are doing for us, and is a LOT more valuable than the pretty suits and dresses that occasional show up on our campus. I'm sure people fortunate enough to have ETO subscriptions don't give a darn, but *I* am awfully grateful. -- Steve Dorner, U of Illinois Computing Services Office Internet: s-dorner@uiuc.edu UUCP: uunet!uiucuxc!uiuc.edu!s-dorner
wieser@fsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Bernhard Wieser) (03/14/91)
What about... 1) it hasn't been released yet (or) 2) it's only avail. to registered developers (or) 3) you have to buy it (i.e. through APDA) -- ( Bernie Wieser, wieser@cpsc.ucalgary.ca, BSWieser@uncamult.BITNET ) ( 4rth Year Dbl.Mgr Cpsc Clhc University of Calgary | ) ( S/H Developer Dept. of Psychology, " " " \|/ ) ( Octavian Micro Development Group --- o --- )
wirehead@oxy.edu (David J. Harr) (03/14/91)
I would just like to express my (and I'm sure many others) appreciation for having anything at ALL available by FTP from Apple. It is very rare for a company that makes microcomputers to make available the kind of development tools that Apple has made available by FTP. Obviously, in a perfect world, I would have instant access to ALL the new items on ALL the disks of everyone in ATG, but given that this is the real world, I don't think they're doing too bad. So, kudos to Mark Johnson and Tom Dowdy and all the other folks up there who are doing their best to help us. I hope they don't feel like no one appreciates them. Just my 18.7 cents worth (inflation, you know...) David Harr "I think happiness is being famous for your financial ability to indulge in every kind of excess...The best part about being famous would be crushing people who got in your way." --Calvin fnordfnordfnordfnordfnordfnordfnordfnordfnordfnordfnordfnordfnordfnordfnord
chai@hawk.cs.ukans.edu (Ian Chai) (03/14/91)
Dear Tom (Dowdy) Gosh, I knew you were a nice guy from the help you've given me in the past, but I didn't realize how much! Keep up the good work. I look forward to seeing ftp.apple.com when you get it up. (Now if Apple's Legal department would take a tip or two from its tech staff <grin>) Ian Chai chai@cs.ukans.edu 2fntnougat@ukanvax.bitnet
ERTEM@ACC.FAU.EDUCan Ertem (03/18/91)
Thanks for keeping the apple.com ftp site alive. What can we users do to get you guys some support from the Apple corporate types? Thanks again. M.C. Ertem Electrical Engineering Department Florida Atlantic University Boca Raton, FL 33431
gaynor@magnus.ircc.ohio-state.edu (Jim Gaynor) (03/19/91)
In article <1991Mar17.171423.9360@cs.fau.edu> ERTEM@ACC.FAU.EDUCan Ertem writes: > >Thanks for keeping the apple.com ftp site alive. > >What can we users do to get you guys some support from the Apple corporate >types? Send email. If you've ever obtained anything useful from *.apple.com, send people like mjohnson@apple.com effusive thank-you notes telling them just how useful *.apple.com is, and exactly what it is that you find useful about it. With a nice big pile of email thank -you's to show to the corporate types, Mark and Tom and their cohorts have more ammunition in their attempts to get some "official" support for the Apple FTP sites. -- Jim Gaynor - Systems Analyst 1 + "This is Serious. He is Lost. The Ohio State University ACS-FM-OCES | We must begin the Search at once." gaynor@magnus.ircc.ohio-state.ed | -Rabbit, from gaynor@agvax2.ag.ohio-state.edu + "The House at Pooh Corner"
jcav@quads.uchicago.edu (john cavallino) (03/19/91)
In article <1991Mar18.174200.16979@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> gaynor@magnus.ircc.ohio-state.edu (Jim Gaynor) writes: >In article <1991Mar17.171423.9360@cs.fau.edu> ERTEM@ACC.FAU.EDUCan Ertem writes: >>Thanks for keeping the apple.com ftp site alive. >> >>What can we users do to get you guys some support from the Apple corporate >>types? > >Send email. If you've ever obtained anything useful from *.apple.com, >send people like mjohnson@apple.com effusive thank-you notes telling >them just how useful *.apple.com is, and exactly what it is that you >find useful about it. > >With a nice big pile of email thank -you's to show to the corporate >types, Mark and Tom and their cohorts have more ammunition in their >attempts to get some "official" support for the Apple FTP sites. The Apple Internet FTP site is mentioned in the latest APDALog as one of the supported sources of Apple developer products, so it looks like official support is here, or at least very close at hand. Yay! -- John Cavallino | EMail: jcav@midway.uchicago.edu University of Chicago Hospitals | USMail: 5841 S. Maryland Ave, Box 145 Office of Facilities Management | Chicago, IL 60637 "Opinions, my boy. Just opinions" | Telephone: 312-702-6900
lemke@radius.com (Steve Lemke) (03/20/91)
wieser@fsd.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Bernhard Wieser) writes: }What about... } }1) it hasn't been released yet (or) This would usually fall under the same category as (2) below, since unreleased things are often shipped to registered developers. }2) it's only avail. to registered developers (or) This one is easy. Nobody said that all files had to be available via the usually ASSUMED _ANONYMOUS_ ftp. There's not really any reason why ftp couldn't have a list of logins for registered developers. That way, you sign in as whoever you really are, and you get access to things based on who you are. Yes, this takes some time on apple's part, but then that's what they are trying to officially receive some authorization to do - spend someone's time on setting up and maintaining this thing. }3) you have to buy it (i.e. through APDA) I think sometimes this is only so you can get printed docs and pay for the cost involved in APDA getting the stuff to you. APDA stuff should be made available electronically (via FTP) for those interested (and maybe only registered folks, who knows?). I don't know if this would fly, but it might... -- ----- Steve Lemke, KC6QDT - Software Engineering, Radius Inc., San Jose ----- ----- Reply to: lemke@radius.com -- U.C. Santa Barbara ECE Class of '89 ----- ----- "I'm not a UNIX wizard, but I play the Postmaster at radius.com." -----
francis@arthur.zaphod.uchicago.edu (Francis Stracke) (03/20/91)
In article <1423@radius.com> lemke@radius.com (Steve Lemke) writes: This one is easy. Nobody said that all files had to be available via the usually ASSUMED _ANONYMOUS_ ftp. There's not really any reason why ftp couldn't have a list of logins for registered developers. That way, you Sounds reasonable--but don't developers have AppleLink? -- /============================================================================\ | Francis Stracke | My opinions are my own. I don't steal them.| | Department of Mathematics |=============================================| | University of Chicago | Until you stalk and overrun, | | francis@zaphod.uchicago.edu | you can't devour anyone. -- Hobbes | \============================================================================/
cs483106@umbc5.umbc.edu (cs483106) (03/20/91)
In article <FRANCIS.91Mar19172945@arthur.zaphod.uchicago.edu> francis@arthur.zaphod.uchicago.edu (Francis Stracke) writes: >In article <1423@radius.com> lemke@radius.com (Steve Lemke) writes: > > This one is easy. Nobody said that all files had to be available via the > usually ASSUMED _ANONYMOUS_ ftp. There's not really any reason why ftp > couldn't have a list of logins for registered developers. That way, you > >Sounds reasonable--but don't developers have AppleLink? > Registered developers(those of you who have lots of cash to spare) have AppleLink, but I think he was suggesting it for us lowlier persons who have trouble affording a simple APDA membership, let alone all the money a certified developer pays out. "Pope" Q.E.D Michael Kohne mikek@isis.ngs.noaa.gov
francis@zaphod.uchicago.edu (03/20/91)
In article <5464@umbc3.UMBC.EDU> cs483106@umbc5.umbc.edu (cs483106) writes: In article <FRANCIS.91Mar19172945@arthur.zaphod.uchicago.edu> francis@zaphod.uchicago.edu (Francis Stracke) writes: >Sounds reasonable--but don't developers have AppleLink? > Registered developers(those of you who have lots of cash to spare) have AppleLink, but I think he was suggesting it for us lowlier persons who have trouble affording a simple APDA membership, let alone all the money a certified developer pays out. Of course--but if you're limiting FTP access to people who have AppleLink access, you're not doing a lot of good. (Except for saving them phone money--which shouldn't be a problem if they can afford to be registered developers. :-) (Note: I'm *NOT* a registered developer. :-) -- /============================================================================\ | Francis Stracke | My opinions are my own. I don't steal them.| | Department of Mathematics |=============================================| | University of Chicago | Until you stalk and overrun, | | francis@zaphod.uchicago.edu | you can't devour anyone. -- Hobbes | \============================================================================/
d88-jwa@byse.nada.kth.se (Jon W{tte) (03/20/91)
In article <1423@radius.com> lemke@radius.com (Steve Lemke) writes:
This one is easy. Nobody said that all files had to be available via the
usually ASSUMED _ANONYMOUS_ ftp. There's not really any reason why ftp
couldn't have a list of logins for registered developers. That way, you
Erhm... just _how_ large a passwd file (eq.) do you think is
feasible ? Presently, a 10k lines passwd file, searched lineary
(that's the way it is, folks) isn't my idea of fun. Especially
at a high load (with 20 users already in...)
There are a _lot_ of developers, worldwide...
h+@nada.kth.se
Jon W{tte
--
"The IM-IV file manager chapter documents zillions of calls, all of which
seem to do almost the same thing and none of which seem to do what I want
them to do." -- Juri Munkki in comp.sys.mac.programmerdorner@pequod.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Dorner) (03/20/91)
>Of course--but if you're limiting FTP access to people who have >AppleLink access, you're not doing a lot of good. (Except for saving >them phone money--which shouldn't be a problem if they can afford to >be registered developers. They would save all the aeons it takes to transfer stuff over modems. -- Steve Dorner, U of Illinois Computing Services Office Internet: s-dorner@uiuc.edu UUCP: uunet!uiucuxc!uiuc.edu!s-dorner
dorner@pequod.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Dorner) (03/20/91)
In article <D88-JWA.91Mar20085312@byse.nada.kth.se> d88-jwa@byse.nada.kth.se (Jon W{tte) writes: >Erhm... just _how_ large a passwd file (eq.) do you think is >feasible ? Presently, a 10k lines passwd file, searched lineary >(that's the way it is, folks) isn't my idea of fun. That's *not* the way it is. We use hashed password files on our large user-community machines. One of them has 9000 users. Of course, like any other useful modification (job control, vi, networking, fast file system), it will take a while to get into System V stuff, like A/UX. -- Steve Dorner, U of Illinois Computing Services Office Internet: s-dorner@uiuc.edu UUCP: uunet!uiucuxc!uiuc.edu!s-dorner
francis@zaphod.uchicago.edu (03/22/91)
In article <1991Mar20.145515.19996@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> dorner@pequod.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Dorner) writes (quoting me): >Of course--but if you're limiting FTP access to people who have >AppleLink access, you're not doing a lot of good. (Except for saving >them phone money--which shouldn't be a problem if they can afford to >be registered developers. They would save all the aeons it takes to transfer stuff over modems. Ah. Point taken. (Remembering the one time I used a modem to get stuff from Sumex...) -- /============================================================================\ | Francis Stracke | My opinions are my own. I don't steal them.| | Department of Mathematics |=============================================| | University of Chicago | Until you stalk and overrun, | | francis@zaphod.uchicago.edu | you can't devour anyone. -- Hobbes | \============================================================================/
dtiberio@csws3.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) (03/23/91)
In article <FRANCIS.91Mar21145553@daisy.zaphod.uchicago.edu> francis@zaphod.uchicago.edu writes: > >In article <1991Mar20.145515.19996@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> >dorner@pequod.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Dorner) writes (quoting me): > > >Of course--but if you're limiting FTP access to people who have > >AppleLink access, you're not doing a lot of good. (Except for saving > >them phone money--which shouldn't be a problem if they can afford to > >be registered developers. > > They would save all the aeons it takes to transfer stuff over modems. > >Ah. Point taken. > >(Remembering the one time I used a modem to get stuff from Sumex...) > >-- >/============================================================================\ >| Francis Stracke | My opinions are my own. I don't steal them.| >| Department of Mathematics |=============================================| >| University of Chicago | Until you stalk and overrun, | >| francis@zaphod.uchicago.edu | you can't devour anyone. -- Hobbes | >\============================================================================/
urlichs@smurf.sub.org (Matthias Urlichs) (03/26/91)
In comp.sys.mac.system, article <FRANCIS.91Mar19172945@arthur.zaphod.uchicago.edu>, francis@arthur.zaphod.uchicago.edu (Francis Stracke) writes: < In article <1423@radius.com> lemke@radius.com (Steve Lemke) writes: < < This one is easy. Nobody said that all files had to be available via the < usually ASSUMED _ANONYMOUS_ ftp. There's not really any reason why ftp < couldn't have a list of logins for registered developers. That way, you < < Sounds reasonable--but don't developers have AppleLink? < No, not every developer has AppleLink. Not even every registered developer does. And some who have, have to pay real money to greedy communications companies if they want to download real-world-sized stuff from AppleLink. -- Matthias Urlichs -- urlichs@smurf.sub.org -- urlichs@smurf.ira.uka.de /(o\ Humboldtstrasse 7 - 7500 Karlsruhe 1 - FRG -- +49-721-621127(0700-2330) \o)/
alan@metasoft.UUCP (Alan Epstein) (04/02/91)
BTW, could someone send me a quick tutorial on anonymous ftp access to this system. Thanks. ----------------------------- Alan Epstein Meta Software Corp UUCP: ...bbn!metasoft!alan 150 Cambridgepark Dr Internet/ARPA: alan%metasoft@bbn.com Cambridge, MA 02140 USA -----------------------------
mxmora@unix.SRI.COM (Matt Mora) (04/09/91)
In article <5464@umbc3.UMBC.EDU> cs483106@umbc5.umbc.edu.UUCP (cs483106) writes: >In article <FRANCIS.91Mar19172945@arthur.zaphod.uchicago.edu> francis@arthur.zaphod.uchicago.edu (Francis Stracke) writes: >>In article <1423@radius.com> lemke@radius.com (Steve Lemke) writes: >> >> This one is easy. Nobody said that all files had to be available via the >> usually ASSUMED _ANONYMOUS_ ftp. There's not really any reason why ftp >> couldn't have a list of logins for registered developers. That way, you >> >>Sounds reasonable--but don't developers have AppleLink? >> > >Registered developers(those of you who have lots of cash to spare) have >AppleLink, but I think he was suggesting it for us lowlier persons who have >trouble affording a simple APDA membership, let alone all the money a >certified developer pays out. I'm a registered developer (actually an lowly ol' peeon of a associate not a PARTNER). My company shelled out the bucks for me to become a asscociate but my org (group) can't afford for me to use applelink. It cost way to much for what you get. So I would like to see a way for me to download the newest resedit or technotes or whathaveyou. Either that or have the applelink charges dropped for certain file downloading. For some reason if your are a associate you are some kind of lower class citizen in apple's eyes. The prerequisite for becoming a partner is that you have to develop a commercial product. Even though the products I develop for my company will make my company buy more macs. They seem to think that in house developers don't need to know every thing that a commercial developer needs to know. One of the programs that I wrote has just been shipped to another company for them to publish it. I guess it was such a good in-house program that they thought that there is going to be a market for it. I have yet to get an invitation to the World Wide Developer Conference. Though apple claims that it is available to all developers. I guess thats enough apple bashing for one day :-) -- ___________________________________________________________ Matthew Mora | my Mac Matt_Mora@sri.com SRI International | my unix mxmora@unix.sri.com ___________________________________________________________
macman@wpi.WPI.EDU (Chris Silverberg) (04/10/91)
In an article mxmora@unix.sri.com (Matt Mora) rambles: >I'm a registered developer (actually an lowly ol' peeon of a associate not a >PARTNER). My company shelled out the bucks for me to become a asscociate but >my org (group) can't afford for me to use applelink. It cost way to much for >what you get. So I would like to see a way for me to download the newest >resedit or technotes or whathaveyou. Either that or have the applelink charges >dropped for certain file downloading. Rumor has it that Dennis Brothers, the original author of Microphone, is working with Apple to develop a new online service which is intended to "burn AppleLink to the ground." The problem that Apple has is that Applelink is owned and operated by GE, which is why the rates are so unreasonable. It seems that Apple was exploring the possibilities with Quantum services, helping develop the America Online software (then known as Applelink Personal), but for whatever reasons seemed to decide a completely Apple owned online service is what they should be shooting for. I really believe that Apple wants to have thier own online service for developers and user groups that's more affordable... hopefully this vision will become a reality... - Chris =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Chris Silverberg INTERNET: macman@wpi.wpi.edu Worcester Polytechnic Institute Main Street USA 508-832-7725 (sysop) America Online: TfChris WMUG BBS 508-832-5844 (sysop)