seiffert@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (04/11/91)
I just installed System 7.0b4 on my machine. Seems to be working fine except that when I went to login to our novell server I received the message: "The disk servername.sys can not be used. You do not have enough access privilages." I was logging on as the supervisor! The other weirdness is that I can mount other volumes on the server. I just can't mount the SYS volume. Has anybody else ran into this problem yet? We are running Memorex-Telex 7065-20's with Novell NE2000 network adapters and Netware 286 2.15 rev C with Mac VAP's 2.0. Is this Apple's problem or Novell's. If Novell's, does Netware 286 2.2 or 386 3.11 take care of this problem? Thanks in advance. ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////| Kurt A. Seiffert ---> Novell <- seiffert@ucs.indiana.edu UCS Workstations ---> Unix <-- seiffert@silver.ucs.indiana.edu Network Engineer ---> VMS <--- seiffert@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu WCC Office:104.08 ph:855-5746 ---> C <------ 750 N. SR 46 "No silly quote yet... Well I ---> Scheme <- Bloomington, IN 47405 could, but nothing original." ---> Macintosh!! <<<<<<<<<()>>>>>>>>> \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\|
brianb@kinetics.com (Brian Bulkowski) (04/12/91)
Hi Guys: Good to see that people are using Mac products. The same problem exists with NetWare for Mac 3.0 (what works with OS 3.11). It is *APPLE'S PROBLEM*. Really now, I wouldn't say it if it wasn't true. It has to do with the number of volumes, system 7 won't accept a volume ID of 0, which is what we return for the SYS volume. All previous Apple systems allowed volume IDs to start at 0. Sooooo ... Apple will (supposedly) fix this in the next version of system 7. Have a good one! brianb brianb@wc.novell.com In article <1991Apr11.152736.16640@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> seiffert@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu writes: >I just installed System 7.0b4 on my machine. Seems to be working fine >except that when I went to login to our novell server I received the >message: "The disk servername.sys can not be used. You do not have enough >access privilages." I was logging on as the supervisor! The other weirdness >is that I can mount other volumes on the server. I just can't mount the SYS >volume. > >Has anybody else ran into this problem yet? We are running Memorex-Telex >7065-20's with Novell NE2000 network adapters and Netware 286 2.15 rev C >with Mac VAP's 2.0. Is this Apple's problem or Novell's. If Novell's, does >Netware 286 2.2 or 386 3.11 take care of this problem? > >Thanks in advance. > >///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////| >Kurt A. Seiffert ---> Novell <- seiffert@ucs.indiana.edu >UCS Workstations ---> Unix <-- seiffert@silver.ucs.indiana.edu >Network Engineer ---> VMS <--- seiffert@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu >WCC Office:104.08 ph:855-5746 ---> C <------ 750 N. SR 46 >"No silly quote yet... Well I ---> Scheme <- Bloomington, IN 47405 >could, but nothing original." ---> Macintosh!! <<<<<<<<<()>>>>>>>>> >\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\|
jackb@MDI.COM (Jack Brindle) (04/13/91)
In article <1991Apr11.195758.26515@novell.com> brianb@wc.novell.com (Brian Bulkowski) writes: >Hi Guys: >Good to see that people are using Mac products. The same problem >exists with NetWare for Mac 3.0 (what works with OS 3.11). It is >*APPLE'S PROBLEM*. Really now, I wouldn't say it if it wasn't >true. It has to do with the number of volumes, system 7 won't >accept a volume ID of 0, which is what we return for the SYS volume. >All previous Apple systems allowed volume IDs to start at 0. >Sooooo ... Apple will (supposedly) fix this in the next version of >system 7. > >Have a good one! >brianb >brianb@wc.novell.com This is bologna. Netware 3.0 just recently went out. Novell has had System 7 in beta form since at least October. They should have seen the problem A LONG TIME AGO. It would have been a simple fix to resolve the problem before 3.0 went out the door. I guess it is just easier for them to try to reflect the problem back on Apple. Now, as far as volume IDs, Apple published recommended methods for obtaining a new volume id to mount a volume with. The notes described a method for searching the volume table for free entries. None of the notes showed the use of volume 0, they all started counting at -1, going down (the index into the volume table is the 2s complement of this number; thus volume -1 has an index of 0). Flame on> It is disgusting for developers to receive all kinds of information from Apple on what they should and shouldn't do (I've seen the info - I get it too!), then go off and invent their own way, ignoring Apple's info, then try to blame the resulting mess on Apple. Maybe they are just used to getting away with it in the DOS world. Flame off> Jack Brindle ham radio: wa4fib/7
markw@kinetics.com (Mark Wittenberg) (04/13/91)
The News Manager) Nntp-Posting-Host: plasma Reply-To: markw@wc.novell.com Organization: Novell, Inc. References: <1991Apr11.152736.16640@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <1991Apr11.195758.26515@novell.com> Date: 12 Apr 91 00:00:24 GMT In <1991Apr11.195758.26515@novell.com> brianb@kinetics.com (Brian Bulkowski) writes: >true. It has to do with the number of volumes, system 7 won't >accept a volume ID of 0, which is what we return for the SYS volume. >All previous Apple systems allowed volume IDs to start at 0. >Sooooo ... Apple will (supposedly) fix this in the next version of >system 7. >brianb@wc.novell.com Just to add to Brian's comments: yes, it's fixed in 7.0b5. /markw --- Mark Wittenberg Voice: (415) 975-4512 Novell, Inc. Internet: markw@wc.novell.com 1340 Treat Blvd. Suite 500 UUCP: ucbvax!mtxinu!kinetics!markw Walnut Creek, CA 94596 AppleLink: NOVELL.WCENG FAX: (415) 938-2562
markw@kinetics.com (Mark Wittenberg) (04/13/91)
The News Manager) Nntp-Posting-Host: plasma Reply-To: markw@wc.novell.com Organization: Novell, Inc. References: <1991Apr11.152736.16640@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> <1991Apr11.195758.26515@novell.com> <1991Apr12.203756.3939@MDI.COM> Date: 13 Apr 91 01:56:37 GMT In <1991Apr12.203756.3939@MDI.COM> jackb@MDI.COM (Jack Brindle) writes: >In article <1991Apr11.195758.26515@novell.com> brianb@wc.novell.com (Brian Bulkowski) writes: >>The same problem exists with NetWare for Mac 3.0 ... It is *APPLE'S PROBLEM* >>... It has to do with the number of volumes, system 7 won't >>accept a volume ID of 0, which is what we return for the SYS volume. >This is bologna. Netware 3.0 just recently went out. Novell has had >System 7 in beta form since at least October. They should have seen >the problem A LONG TIME AGO. It would have been a simple fix to resolve >the problem before 3.0 went out the door. I guess it is just easier for >them to try to reflect the problem back on Apple. Now, as far as volume IDs, >Apple published recommended methods for obtaining a new volume id to >mount a volume with. The notes described a method for searching the volume >table for free entries. None of the notes showed the use of volume 0, they >all started counting at -1, going down (the index into the volume table >is the 2s complement of this number; thus volume -1 has an index of 0). Sorry Jack; it's not bologna. This is indeed Apple's bug: that's why _they_ fixed it, not us. Apple knows it's their bug, and they are not complaining to us. The bug was not in 6.0.x (I don't know which versions of 7.0 had it or not, except as noted), was in 7.0b4, and was fixed in 7.0b5. Believe me, it's not like we're twisting Apple's arm to get them to change their specs; when we noticed this problem and called Apple about it they told us that they had already noticed it and fixed it in b5. >Flame on> >It is disgusting for developers to receive all kinds of information from >Apple on what they should and shouldn't do (I've seen the info - I get it >too!), then go off and invent their own way, ignoring Apple's info, then try >to blame the resulting mess on Apple. Maybe they are just used to getting >away with it in the DOS world. >Flame off> >Jack Brindle We aren't inventing our own way; 0 is a perfectly valid volume id. You are right that we should have seen the bug early and got Apple to fix it before 7.0b4. For that matter Apple should not have put the bug in, and having put it in should have fixed it before 7.0b4. That's what bugs are; things that don't work right. That's one of the reasons that 7.0 is in beta -- they haven't fixed all of the bugs. You're right again; we do receive tons of information about what we should and shouldn't do. Much of it is correct (like saying that 0 is a valid volume id). Some things slip through the cracks. Lighten up a little, ok? Incidentally, while we may be used to many things in the DOS world, blaming Apple for stuff is not one I'd be likely to place at the top of the list. /markw --- Mark Wittenberg Voice: (415) 975-4512 Novell, Inc. Internet: markw@wc.novell.com 1340 Treat Blvd. Suite 500 UUCP: ucbvax!mtxinu!kinetics!markw Walnut Creek, CA 94596 AppleLink: NOVELL.WCENG FAX: (415) 938-2562
rsvp@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (R. Scott V. Paterson) (04/15/91)
From Comp.sys.Novell iIn <1991Apr12.203756.3939@MDI.COM> jackb@MDI.COM (Jack Brindle) writes: >In article <1991Apr11.195758.26515@novell.com> brianb@wc.novell.com (Brian Bulk owski) writes: >>The same problem exists with NetWare for Mac 3.0 ... It is *APPLE'S PROBLEM* >>... It has to do with the number of volumes, system 7 won't >>accept a volume ID of 0, which is what we return for the SYS volume. >This is bologna. Netware 3.0 just recently went out. Novell has had >System 7 in beta form since at least October. They should have seen >the problem A LONG TIME AGO. It would have been a simple fix to resolve >the problem before 3.0 went out the door. I guess it is just easier for >them to try to reflect the problem back on Apple. Now, as far as volume IDs, >Apple published recommended methods for obtaining a new volume id to >mount a volume with. The notes described a method for searching the volume >table for free entries. None of the notes showed the use of volume 0, they >all started counting at -1, going down (the index into the volume table >is the 2s complement of this number; thus volume -1 has an index of 0). Sorry Jack; it's not bologna. This is indeed Apple's bug: that's why _they_ fixed it, not us. Apple knows it's their bug, and they are not complaining to us. The bug was not in 6.0.x (I don't know which versions of 7.0 had it or not, except as noted), was in 7.0b4, and was fixed in 7.0b5. Believe me, it's not like we're twisting Apple's arm to get them to change their specs; when we noticed this problem and called Apple about it they told us that they had already noticed it and fixed it in b5. >Flame on> >It is disgusting for developers to receive all kinds of information from >Apple on what they should and shouldn't do (I've seen the info - I get it >too!), then go off and invent their own way, ignoring Apple's info, then try >to blame the resulting mess on Apple. Maybe they are just used to getting >away with it in the DOS world. >Flame off> >Jack Brindle We aren't inventing our own way; 0 is a perfectly valid volume id. You are right that we should have seen the bug early and got Apple to fix it before 7.0b4. For that matter Apple should not have put the bug in, and having put it in should have fixed it before 7.0b4. That's what bugs are; things that don't work right. That's one of the reasons that 7.0 is in beta -- they haven't fixed all of the bugs. You're right again; we do receive tons of information about what we should and shouldn't do. Much of it is correct (like saying that 0 is a valid volume id). Some things slip through the cracks. Lighten up a little, ok? Incidentally, while we may be used to many things in the DOS world, blaming Apple for stuff is not one I'd be likely to place at the top of the list. /markw
tecot@momenta.com (Ed Tecot) (04/16/91)
markw@kinetics.com (Mark Wittenberg) writes: >>This is bologna. Netware 3.0 just recently went out. Novell has had >>System 7 in beta form since at least October. They should have seen >>the problem A LONG TIME AGO. It would have been a simple fix to resolve >>the problem before 3.0 went out the door. I guess it is just easier for >>them to try to reflect the problem back on Apple. Now, as far as volume IDs, >>Apple published recommended methods for obtaining a new volume id to >>mount a volume with. The notes described a method for searching the volume >>table for free entries. None of the notes showed the use of volume 0, they >>all started counting at -1, going down (the index into the volume table >>is the 2s complement of this number; thus volume -1 has an index of 0). >Sorry Jack; it's not bologna. This is indeed Apple's bug: that's why _they_ >fixed it, not us. Apple knows it's their bug, and they are not complaining >to us. The bug was not in 6.0.x (I don't know which versions of 7.0 had >it or not, except as noted), was in 7.0b4, and was fixed in 7.0b5. Believe >me, it's not like we're twisting Apple's arm to get them to change their >specs; when we noticed this problem and called Apple about it they told >us that they had already noticed it and fixed it in b5. That's right, it's not bologna, it's cow chips. Just because Apple fixes a bug, it doesn't mean that the fault lies with Apple. At Apple, compatibility is very important; it's SOP to fix a third party's bug in system software if possible. It seems to be pretty clear here that Novell's not following the rules. _emt
bdahlen@zephyr.cair.du.edu (Robert L. Dahlen - U. of Denver USA=) (04/16/91)
I'm with Mark, lighten up Jack. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert L. Dahlen - Director, Information Systems & Technology University of Denver - Denver, Colorado 80208 (303) 871-4385 INTERNET:bdahlen@du.edu BITNET:bdahlen@ducair
jackb@MDI.COM (Jack Brindle) (04/16/91)
In article <1991Apr15.164422.9731@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> rsvp@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (R. Scott V. Paterson) writes: >From Comp.sys.Novell > >iIn <1991Apr12.203756.3939@MDI.COM> jackb@MDI.COM (Jack Brindle) writes: > >>In article <1991Apr11.195758.26515@novell.com> brianb@wc.novell.com (Brian >Bulk >owski) writes: >>>The same problem exists with NetWare for Mac 3.0 ... It is *APPLE'S >PROBLEM* >>>... It has to do with the number of volumes, system 7 won't >>>accept a volume ID of 0, which is what we return for the SYS volume. > ... stuff removed... For those reading this thread, Brian, Mark and I have exchanged messages on the topic. Brian's original posting mentioned a volume id. There are actually two volume ids being processed here. One is on the local macintosh, where the id ranges from -1 downward and references each mounted volume. This is the one I was referring to. The second, which Brian referred to, is that of the Appleshare volume, handled by Appleshare. This volume can have a range from 0 to 65536 (I believe). The AFP volume is mapped to a local volume through the Appleshare client code running in the local Mac. The reason for my original response was a reaction to a perceived attack on Apple (the here we go again syndrome...). The information, as I saw it was incorrect, or at least needed additional explanation as to which volume refnum they were talking about. My Flame addressed this reaction (which we, unfortunately, see all too often). My apologies to Brian, Mark and Novell for giving them heat when they were actually doing a good job, working with Apple to correct a problem. This shows that Apple listens, and responds, to problems that developers come up with (I've seen it with my own work also). And, that developers listen to customer complaints, suggestions and pats on the back. I would suggest that we all (Brian and myself included) be more specific on what we post so that confusions of this sort do not happen. Again, we were both correct, just talking about different things. Go for it, Brian! - Jack Brindle ham radio: wa4fib/7
medici@dorm.rutgers.edu (Mark Medici) (04/17/91)
There was a bug, then an misunderstanding, which sparked an inferno. The ground is scorched, the smoke is dissipating, and the bug has been killed. I enjoy comp.sys.novell for its wealth of useful information, such as the original post that fathered (or mothered, if you prefer) this thread. I would hate to see the kind of flamethrowing matches common in many other newsgroups become a regular part of this one. Please folks, let's get back to work now. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Medici/SysProg3 * RUCS/User Services * medici@elbereth.rutgers.edu -----------------------------------------------------------------------
jackb@MDI.COM (Jack Brindle) (04/18/91)
In article <1991Apr15.210436.13279@momenta.com> tecot@momenta.com (Ed Tecot) writes: >markw@kinetics.com (Mark Wittenberg) writes: > >>Sorry Jack; it's not bologna. This is indeed Apple's bug: that's why _they_ >>fixed it, not us. Apple knows it's their bug, and they are not complaining >>to us. The bug was not in 6.0.x (I don't know which versions of 7.0 had >>it or not, except as noted), was in 7.0b4, and was fixed in 7.0b5. Believe >>me, it's not like we're twisting Apple's arm to get them to change their >>specs; when we noticed this problem and called Apple about it they told >>us that they had already noticed it and fixed it in b5. > >That's right, it's not bologna, it's cow chips. Just because Apple fixes a >bug, it doesn't mean that the fault lies with Apple. At Apple, compatibility >is very important; it's SOP to fix a third party's bug in system software >if possible. It seems to be pretty clear here that Novell's not following >the rules. > > _emt Gee, here I am actually defending Novell. But, Brian and Mark are right. The problem was that Apple accidentally disallowed a server volume id of 0, which is quite valid according to the AFP specification (all the way back to version 1.0). Apple shipped 7.0B4 with the bug, but realized it quickly, and fixed in the next beta version. It appears it was broken only for that one version. The bug does not show up in earlier versions. The bug fix was not for a third party problem, but to bring the software in line with specifications. Seems quite simple to me... Jack B. ham radio: wa4fib/7