chma@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Michael Antolovich) (04/16/91)
In article <1991Apr14.221831.8968@umiami.ir.miami.edu> dweisman@umiami.ir.miami.edu (Ordinary Man) writes: > I would have to say to 2 Meg users that even though apple says that >you can run System 7 with 2 Megs, you will probably want to upgrade to at least >4 Megs to get the most out of it. Since "Multifinder" is always on, you will ..........................................^^^^^^^^^^^........................ >probably never get more than 2 programs to run at a time and most likely >never more than one big one. In addition, if you wanted to run, say Think >Pascal, forget it with 2 Megs of memory. I was wondering if the following still applies in System 7.0:- Often when I start running out of memory, I kill the Finder and then I can launch more programs (small ones :-) using any of the application launching utilities (I use MasterJuggler). Note I also have a largish Finder Partition (512K). I seem to remember that one of System 7.0's features is that the memory partitions aren't fixed (ie when you kill a 500K program in Sys 6.etc you are left with a 500K hole in the middle if it was launched in between two other programs). Would this mean the little hole made by the Finder at the front will be joined with the rest of the memeory at the end ? Michael. -- _______________________________________________________________________________ \ Michael Antolovich in sunny North Queensland (where it's bloody hot!) / \ chma@marlin.jcu.edu.au / \_________________________________________________________________________/
dweisman@umiami.ir.miami.edu (Ordinary Man) (04/16/91)
In article <1991Apr16.074738.4433@marlin.jcu.edu.au>, chma@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Michael Antolovich) writes: > I was wondering if the following still applies in System 7.0:- > Often when I start running out of memory, I kill the Finder and then I > can launch more programs (small ones :-) using any of the application > launching utilities (I use MasterJuggler). Note I also have a largish > Finder Partition (512K). I seem to remember that one of System 7.0's > features is that the memory partitions aren't fixed (ie when you kill a > 500K program in Sys 6.etc you are left with a 500K hole in the middle > if it was launched in between two other programs). Would this mean the > little hole made by the Finder at the front will be joined with the rest > of the memeory at the end ? > Michael. Well, if I understand you correctly, you've been able to kill the finder and use the memory it took up to launch another program. Unless I'm mistaken, you can't kill Finder 7. It's gotta be around always. All the things you can open from the apple menu seem to need the finder around. Besides, if you run so low on memory that you have to kill the finder, you might want to upgrade. In the new "About this Macintosh..." menu item (used to be about the finder) you'll notice (if you see finder 7, that is) that the memory used bar bundles the system, finder, and other programs in memory into one line called "System Software". Finder and System are no longer separate. This would indicate to me that you can't trash the finder. Sorry. Dan -- /-------------------------------------------------------------------------\ | Dan Weisman - University of Miami - Florida | || || || || | |--------------------------------------------------| || || ||\ /|| | | INTERNET -----> dweisman@umiami.IR.Miami.edu | || || || | || | | BITNET -----> dweisman@umiami | ||||||| || | || | |-------------------------------------------------------------------------| | "The more I get to see, the less I understand..." - Triumph | \_________________________________________________________________________/
sho@gibbs.physics.purdue.edu (Sho Kuwamoto) (04/18/91)
In article <=B5_#A_@smurf.sub.org> urlichs@smurf.sub.org (Matthias Urlichs) writes: >It seems to be possible to kill the Finder. The 7.0 Installer does it, for >instance. I don't know how it does this; it probably just sends the Finder a >QUIT AppleEvent. Speaking of which, does anyone have a list of the AppleEvents which have been decided upon so far? I wouldn't be surprised to see QUIT and OPEN AppleEvents, since the Finder already uses a kludge to fake apps into quitting and opening files. Other than that, I have no clue as to what's in and what's not. Is there an EDIT AppleEvent that my THINK C compiler can use to ask another editor to edit a particular file at a particular line? Is there a spell check Apple Event? Youth wants to know. -Sho -- sho@physics.purdue.edu <<-- damn. maybe i'd better get a CD-ROM so I don't have to ask these silly questions.
urlichs@smurf.sub.org (Matthias Urlichs) (04/18/91)
In comp.sys.mac.system, article <1991Apr16.120334.9033@umiami.ir.miami.edu>,
dweisman@umiami.ir.miami.edu (Ordinary Man) writes:
<
< Well, if I understand you correctly, you've been able to kill the finder and
< use the memory it took up to launch another program. Unless I'm mistaken, you
< can't kill Finder 7. It's gotta be around always. All the things you can open
< from the apple menu seem to need the finder around.
It seems to be possible to kill the Finder. The 7.0 Installer does it, for
instance. I don't know how it does this; it probably just sends the Finder a
QUIT AppleEvent.
(Those newfangled events have to be good for _some_ things. ;-)
Whether killing off the Finder is a good idea is another question.
I don't think so.
--
Matthias Urlichs -- urlichs@smurf.sub.org -- urlichs@smurf.ira.uka.de /(o\
Humboldtstrasse 7 - 7500 Karlsruhe 1 - FRG -- +49-721-621127(0700-2330) \o)/amanda@visix.com (Amanda Walker) (04/19/91)
In article <=B5_#A_@smurf.sub.org> urlichs@smurf.sub.org (Matthias Urlichs) writes: It seems to be possible to kill the Finder. The 7.0 Installer does it, for instance. I don't know how it does this; it probably just sends the Finder a QUIT AppleEvent. (Those newfangled events have to be good for _some_ things. ;-) Well, you can kill off the Finder the same you you can under System 6 (an ExitToShell FKEY, for example). Your Apple menu will go away except for anything that the applications themselves put in it, but it does work. It frees up a 384K partition. However, more things may depend on the Finder in System 7.0 than in System 6.0; Virtual Memory may be a safer way to squeeze in some extra memory space... -- Amanda Walker amanda@visix.com Visix Software Inc. ...!uunet!visix!amanda -- "Truth often suffers more by the heat of its defenders than from the arguments of its opposers." --William Penn, _Fruits of Solitude_
kent@sunfs3.Camex.COM (Kent Borg) (04/20/91)
In article <=B5_#A_@smurf.sub.org> urlichs@smurf.sub.org (Matthias Urlichs) writes: >It seems to be possible to kill the Finder. The 7.0 Installer does it, for >instance. I don't know how it does this; it probably just sends the Finder a >QUIT AppleEvent. >(Those newfangled events have to be good for _some_ things. ;-) It does? Are you sure you are not judging based upon the fact that the 800K floppies are really running 6.0.7 as they install 7.0, and they do not run MultiFinder? -- Kent Borg internet: kent@camex.com AOL: kent borg H:(617) 776-6899 W:(617) 426-3577 "We foolishly did not realize that he was stupid." - April Glasbie 3-20-91
owen@sunfs3.Camex.COM (Owen Hartnett) (04/20/91)
In article <1954@camex.COM> kent@sunfs3.Camex.COM (Kent Borg) writes: >In article <=B5_#A_@smurf.sub.org> urlichs@smurf.sub.org (Matthias Urlichs) writes: >>It seems to be possible to kill the Finder. The 7.0 Installer does it, for >>instance. I don't know how it does this; it probably just sends the Finder a >>QUIT AppleEvent. >>(Those newfangled events have to be good for _some_ things. ;-) > >It does? Are you sure you are not judging based upon the fact that >the 800K floppies are really running 6.0.7 as they install 7.0, and >they do not run MultiFinder? There's a key sequence to kill applications (at least in System 7.0FC series). It's CMD-Option-Escape. I got this from Pat Kuras, a local Apple Rep who showed us some tricks with Sys/7 (doesn't it look like an IBM product when you type it like that?) This works with any applications, not just the Finder and kills the topmost application. -Owen .
kent@sunfs3.Camex.COM (Kent Borg) (04/20/91)
In article <1955@camex.COM> owen@sunfs3.Camex.COM (Owen Hartnett) writes: >There's a key sequence to kill applications (at least in System 7.0FC series). >It's CMD-Option-Escape. I got this from Pat Kuras, a local Apple Rep who >showed us some tricks with Sys/7 (doesn't it look like an IBM product when >you type it like that?) Yes, don't type it like that. >This works with any applications, not just the Finder and kills the topmost >application. Yes, the cmd-option-esc has been there for awhile (handy way for non-Macsbug users to get out of runaway applications--seems to be just like an ExitToShell()), and, yes, it can be used to kill the Finder--but the bastard just starts right up again. If the idea behind killing the Finder is to not have the Finder running, then we need another idea. -- Kent Borg internet: kent@camex.com AOL: kent borg H:(617) 776-6899 W:(617) 426-3577 "We foolishly did not realize that he was stupid." - April Glasbie 3-20-91
owen@sunfs3.Camex.COM (Owen Hartnett) (04/20/91)
>Yes, the cmd-option-esc has been there for awhile (handy way for >non-Macsbug users to get out of runaway applications--seems to be just >like an ExitToShell()), and, yes, it can be used to kill the >Finder--but the bastard just starts right up again. > >If the idea behind killing the Finder is to not have the Finder >running, then we need another idea. > >-- >Kent Borg internet: kent@camex.com AOL: kent borg According to Pat Kuras (again), if multiple applications are running, and you kill the Finder (using the aforementioned Opt-Cmd Esc), it will not start up again unless it has to (you have nothing else running). Therefore, if you do this, the Finder won't run until everything has quit, unless your desire is to have nothing running at all, which would be hard to comprehend why, but does have great metaphysical aspects. -Owen
dweisman@umiami.ir.miami.edu (Ordinary Man) (04/20/91)
In article <1957@camex.COM>, owen@sunfs3.Camex.COM (Owen Hartnett) writes: >>Yes, the cmd-option-esc has been there for awhile (handy way for >>non-Macsbug users to get out of runaway applications--seems to be just >>like an ExitToShell()), and, yes, it can be used to kill the >>Finder--but the bastard just starts right up again. >> >>If the idea behind killing the Finder is to not have the Finder >>running, then we need another idea. >> >>-- >>Kent Borg internet: kent@camex.com AOL: kent borg > > According to Pat Kuras (again), if multiple applications are running, and > you kill the Finder (using the aforementioned Opt-Cmd Esc), it will not > start up again unless it has to (you have nothing else running). Therefore, > if you do this, the Finder won't run until everything has quit, unless your > desire is to have nothing running at all, which would be hard to comprehend > why, but does have great metaphysical aspects. > > -Owen Well, here's an intersting bit of info... I'm right now running my comm program by itself (in System 7). But the items in the apple menu are gone. It's just the "About" item. I think I mentioned before that if you did kill the finder, you'd lose that functionality. I guess that's what happened. You can run the program Task-It to kill the finder and then have it commit suicide (sorry! :-)). That would let you get a program to run by itself. I can't seem to think of any useful purpose for this, though because the memory this program uses is predefined and can't be changed after you run it. I guess you'd have to get some utility to launch with other than the finder. I know these exist. It's seems to be a pain to go through this but I guess I'd have to say that if you want or need more free memory, you can kill the finder. Only problem is, I have no way to find out how much memory I freed up with this! Dan -- /-------------------------------------------------------------------------\ | Dan Weisman - University of Miami - Florida | || || || || | |--------------------------------------------------| || || ||\ /|| | | INTERNET -----> dweisman@umiami.IR.Miami.edu | || || || | || | | BITNET -----> dweisman@umiami | ||||||| || | || | |-------------------------------------------------------------------------| | "The more I get to see, the less I understand..." - Triumph | \_________________________________________________________________________/
daf@cs.brown.edu (David A. Fedor) (04/20/91)
YES it is possible, and desirable to kill the Finder in system 7. I am now running a finder which has a very convenient "Quit" item at the bottom of the file menu... just like any normal app. When that is hit, the finder calmly cleans up and exits. As Owen said, when the last application is quit, the finder will start up automatically (so as to avoid any meta- physical issues). Hey, that's the same thing that happened pre-7.0. I shall, in spare time, throw together an app which can install this handy menu item into the finder. At around the same time, I'll write something that gives the finder the ability to open some arbitrary app when you try to open a document for which the creater can't be found. As lots of you know, if you double-click a text doc, it asks if you want to open it with TeachText. Like now, double-clicking a stuffit archive (I don't have stuffit) will ask me if I want to open it with Compact Pro. As far as I can tell, this can be done with any number of document types. If anyone cares enough to clamour, I can tell you how to do these things. You might want to wait a few weeks, until the final system 7 appears. Then I can be sure that the program will work as expected. -Dave Fedor
kent@sunfs3.Camex.COM (Kent Borg) (04/23/91)
In article <72883@brunix.UUCP> daf@cs.brown.edu (David A. Fedor) writes: > >YES it is possible, and desirable to kill the Finder in system 7. I am >now running a finder which has a very convenient "Quit" item at the bottom >of the file menu... just like any normal app. When that is hit, the finder >calmly cleans up and exits. As Owen said, when the last application is >quit, the finder will start up automatically (so as to avoid any meta- >physical issues). Hey, that's the same thing that happened pre-7.0. Just this morning I proved to Owen that I was right (ask him), and now I am already correcting myself. I seems that if you bail out of Finder under 7.0 by using the cmd-opt-esc feature, Finder will restart--at least whenever I try it, and I think it has been doing it since at least 7.0a9. Just a few minutes ago I tried it somewhat differently. I dropped down into Macsbug and did and "es" there. (Took some work to catch Finder using the CPU, uw would always be the current hog, even when Finder was in front. Finally I told Finder to do something and tripped it before it finished.) After the "es" Finder was nowhere to be seen, and it has not restarted yet. I am currently under 7.0 MultiFinder with only one app visible, uw. (File Share is still functioning facelessly.) The Apple menu has the two uw items from above the line, but no dividing line nor Apple Menu Items items. The application menu is there but very uninteresting with only one application running. The Help menu is there, but uw doesn't make very good use of it. OK, you Apple folks who have been sitting back giggleing up until now are welcome to tell us when the Finder will insist upon running, and when it is mortal. Well?? -- Kent Borg internet: kent@camex.com AOL: kent borg H:(617) 776-6899 W:(617) 426-3577 "We foolishly did not realize that he was stupid." - April Glasbie 3-20-91