mlwiese@mit.edu (04/08/91)
Warning: Flame ahead Recent beta versions of 7.0 have new icons for control panels that are small version of the original icons in a box with a slider on it. See below for crude picture: +==========+ | +------+ | | | | | <-- top has small version of original icon | +------+ | +----------+ | ---I---- | <-- bottom has a slider +==========+ I think this is a lousy idea, for the following reasons: 1) now all the icons are squares, so THEY ALL LOOK THE SAME. The tiny version of the original icon inside the square is, of necessity, crude by comparison with the orginal full sized version. In small icon views it's practically impossible to tell the icons apart. If you have 7.0bX, try renaming the control panel items with random 3 digit #s and see how hard it is to find the one you want. What's the point of a GUI if you don't make use of the graphics? 2) I suppose the slider is to help the user identify the item as a control panel. But normal users, even expert users who aren't developers, do not know that "control" has a special meaning, ie check box, button, slider. The slider <-> control panel association is NOT intuitive except for developers, and they don't need help identifying control panels. Normal users will learn the association, but they will wonder why. What do you think? Mike Wiese mlwiese@eagle.mit.edu
george@swbatl.sbc.com (George Nincehelser 5-6544) (04/08/91)
In article <1991Apr7.224711.4792@athena.mit.edu> mlwiese@mit.edu writes: >Warning: Flame ahead > >Recent beta versions of 7.0 have new icons for control panels that are small >version of the original icons in a box with a slider on it. See below for crude >picture: [Complaints deleted] > >What do you think? No big deal. Icons can be changed easily (if you know how). I'd agree with you if the OS forced you to have a slider and shrunk the orignal icon, but that isn't the case. One gripe I have though, is that I miss clicking on the upper right icon to cycle through the active applications. Doing so now brings down a menu of the active applications. Is there any way to get the cycling action back? I guess I'll live if there isn't... -- / George David Nincehelser \ george@swbatl.sbc.com \ / / Southwestern Bell Telephone \ Phone: (314) 235-6544 \ / / / Advanced Technology Laboratory \ Fax: (314) 235-5797 \ / / / /\ 1010 Pine, St. Louis, MO 63101 \ de asini umbra disceptare \
jhp@wpi.WPI.EDU (John Petrangleo) (04/08/91)
In article <1991Apr7.224711.4792@athena.mit.edu> mlwiese@mit.edu writes: >Warning: Flame ahead > >Recent beta versions of 7.0 have new icons for control panels that are small >version of the original icons in a box with a slider on it. > >I think this is a lousy idea, for the following reasons: I agree. In fact, I liked the icons that were in 7.0B1. (I really liked the memory one; a little mac dreaming of more memory). The ones in 7.0B4 are U G L Y ! I do like the puzzle pieces for inits (excuse me, system extensions), though. ------------------------------ jhp@wpi.wpi.edu ------------------------------
macman@wpi.WPI.EDU (Chris Silverberg) (04/08/91)
In an article mlwiese@mit.edu rambles: > I suppose the slider is to help the user identify the item as a control > panel. But normal users, even expert users who aren't developers, do not > know that "control" has a special meaning, ie check box, button, slider. > The slider <-> control panel association is NOT intuitive except for > developers, and they don't need help identifying control panels. Normal > users will learn the association, but they will wonder why. Well, unless you are viewing them in small icon view, they certainly don't all look alike, and I think the consistency of the Control Panels is a good thing... and it WILL be helpful, especially for novices, not just developers. When a Control panel is out of the system folder, a user can still double click it and change the settings. But if there is init code in it, there isn't much to tell the user that this item is not an application, but a control panel, and belongs in the control panels's folder. The common icons will be a good visual cue. Now, whether 3rd party authors will pickup the new format is up in the air... I would hope that they do, but it they don't... oh well.. no big deal... at least they tried... =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Chris Silverberg INTERNET: macman@wpi.wpi.edu Worcester Polytechnic Institute Main Street USA 508-832-7725 (sysop) America Online: TfChris WMUG BBS 508-832-5844 (sysop)
bdugan@teri.bio.uci.edu (Bill Dugan) (04/08/91)
In article <1991Apr8.013247.1039@swbatl.sbc.com> george@swbatl.sbc.com (George Nincehelser 5-6544) writes: > >One gripe I have though, is that I miss clicking on the upper right icon to >cycle through the active applications. Doing so now brings down a menu of the >active applications. Is there any way to get the cycling action back? I got used to this one really quickly, but one thing about 7.0 I haven't gotten used to is the disabling of the Tab key when you're on an open/save dialog box. ARRRRGH! I want to hit Tab and cycle to the next drive!!! Is there any way to get this back? If not I am going to have to write some horrendously kludgy INIT to give it back to me. bill
nerm@Apple.COM (Dean Yu) (04/08/91)
In article <27FFF1BF.25998@orion.oac.uci.edu> bdugan@teri.bio.uci.edu (Bill Dugan) writes: >In article <1991Apr8.013247.1039@swbatl.sbc.com> george@swbatl.sbc.com (George Nincehelser 5-6544) writes: >> >>One gripe I have though, is that I miss clicking on the upper right icon to >>cycle through the active applications. Doing so now brings down a menu of the >>active applications. Is there any way to get the cycling action back? I write an INIT which gives you this functionality back in... oh... the Alpha 9 timeframe. Message me if you want it. If I get innundated, I'll post it to binaries. > >I got used to this one really quickly, but one thing about 7.0 I haven't >gotten used to is the disabling of the Tab key when you're on an open/save >dialog box. ARRRRGH! I want to hit Tab and cycle to the next drive!!! >Is there any way to get this back? If not I am going to have to write some >horrendously kludgy INIT to give it back to me. > You can use command and the left or right arrow to cycle bidirectionally through the mounted volumes... -- Dean Yu Blue Meanie, Negative Ethnic Role Model, etc. Apple Computer, Inc. My opinions and so on and so forth...
Greg@AppleLink.Apple.Com (Greg Marriott) (04/08/91)
In article <27FFF1BF.25998@orion.oac.uci.edu>, bdugan@teri.bio.uci.edu (Bill Dugan) writes: > In article <1991Apr8.013247.1039@swbatl.sbc.com> george@swbatl.sbc.com (George Nincehelser 5-6544) writes: > I got used to this one really quickly, but one thing about 7.0 I haven't > gotten used to is the disabling of the Tab key when you're on an open/save > dialog box. ARRRRGH! I want to hit Tab and cycle to the next drive!!! > Is there any way to get this back? If not I am going to have to write some > horrendously kludgy INIT to give it back to me. The tab key is used in the standard save dialog to switch between type-selection in the folder list and typing the name into the edit-text field. Having the tab key change its behavior to cycle between drives in the open dialog would be inconsistent. As Dean mentioned, command-left-arrow and command-right-arrow move back and forth through the drive list. Overall, I don't think this is a terrible change to the way things used to work. Greg Marriott Blue Meanie Apple Computer, Inc.
ml27192@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mark Lanett) (04/09/91)
bdugan@teri.bio.uci.edu (Bill Dugan) writes: >In article <1991Apr8.013247.1039@swbatl.sbc.com> george@swbatl.sbc.com (George Nincehelser 5-6544) writes: >> >>One gripe I have though, is that I miss clicking on the upper right icon to >>cycle through the active applications. Doing so now brings down a menu of the >>active applications. Is there any way to get the cycling action back? >I got used to this one really quickly, but one thing about 7.0 I haven't >gotten used to is the disabling of the Tab key when you're on an open/save >dialog box. ARRRRGH! I want to hit Tab and cycle to the next drive!!! >Is there any way to get this back? If not I am going to have to write some >horrendously kludgy INIT to give it back to me. Dod they disable command-up cursor and command-down cursor from going through the hierarchy also? Those are more usefull than the tab key, especially with drives at the root level. >bill -- //----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Lanett ml27192@uxa.cs.uiuc.edu
anders@verity.com (Anders Wallgren) (04/17/91)
In article <671688005.1@mmug.mn.org>, Jim.Spencer@p510 (Jim Spencer) writes: > >I wonder what you are talking about. I haven't tried the fc versions yet but in my 7.0b5 Control Panels folder, the cdev's all have their own icons. The only one I've seen which looks like you describe it is the Network control panel. > > Rebuild your desktop file - almost every icon in the Control Panels folder now has a square border with a little slider picture on the side or on the bottom, with a slightly smaller version of the old icon inside. I must agree that these icons were a little harder to deal with at first, but now I don't seem to be having as much trouble. Perhaps this is due to the fact that I've learned where the different control panels are and I just select from memory rather than actually looking.
yee@osf.org (Michael K. Yee) (04/18/91)
In article <1991Apr17.045421.29754@verity.com> anders@verity.com (Anders Wallgren) writes: |> Rebuild your desktop file - almost every icon in the Control Panels |> folder now has a square border with a little slider picture on the |> side or on the bottom, with a slightly smaller version of the old icon |> inside. I must agree that these icons were a little harder to deal |> with at first, but now I don't seem to be having as much trouble. |> Perhaps this is due to the fact that I've learned where the different |> control panels are and I just select from memory rather than actually |> looking. Sound like a very bad user interface if the control panel icons look worst than the current icons displayed in the 6.0 Control Panel. User interfaces should get better, not worst. I don't have 7.0, but it seems that Apple had their heart in the wrong place in getting rid of the Control Panel. I think the Control Panel is a good idea. The original Control Panel concept seem like a more natural way to deal with the setting of system parameters than the 7.0 paradigm of clicking on CDev files on the desktop. The only problem with the 6.0 Control Panel was waiting for the Control Panel to read all the files in the System folder, and the lack of memory of the last open CDev. Both of these problems are fixed in Control Panel replacement DA called Waitless. Is it too late to ask Apple to put the Control Panel back in? I guess this is another area where a 3rd party company can develop a old style Control Panel DA or application. =Mike -- = Michael K. Yee -- yee@osf.org or uunet!osf.org!yee -- = OSF/Motif Development = Open Software Foundation - 11 Cambridge Center - Cambridge, MA 02142
bskendig@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Brian Kendig) (04/18/91)
In article <YEE.91Apr17140837@katana.osf.org> yee@osf.org (Michael K. Yee) writes: > Sound like a very bad user interface if the control panel icons look > worst than the current icons displayed in the 6.0 Control Panel. > User interfaces should get better, not worst. I don't have 7.0, but > it seems that Apple had their heart in the wrong place in getting > rid of the Control Panel. I think the Control Panel is a good idea. > The original Control Panel concept seem like a more natural way to > deal with the setting of system parameters than the 7.0 paradigm of > clicking on CDev files on the desktop. > ... > I guess this is another area where a 3rd party company can develop a > old style Control Panel DA or application. Yick! Personally, I hope they don't. It's rather confusing for neophytes to have to understand how the icons in the Control Panel can't be manipulated like the icons in the Finder (for example, dragged from the Control Panel to a floppy to copy them), and to try to figure out why nothing interesting happens when they double-click on the cdev file in the System Folder. And I'd rather be able to make the control panel window bigger so I can see more cdevs at once (it's horrible when I have to scroll through twenty at a time!), and it would be oh so nice to be able to look at more than one control panel at once... System 7 fixes all these shortcomings, and also provides the added ability to double-click on any cdev file you find and see its config window, so you can click on its `help' buttons and twiddle with it and figure out what it does without having to actually copy it over and drop it into your System Folder. And when you _do_ drop it into your System Folder, your computer will automagically route it to the Control Panels folder inside. Neat, huh? The Control Panel DA was nice when it brought up one window from which you could tweak all the settings of the machine. It had its day -- but then cdevs came along, and the Control Panel became a kludge for a confusing concept. The System 7 way of handling control panels is much more intuitive to new users, much more flexible for power-users, and better suited to the Finder interface. Before you complain about it, *try it*. << Brian >> | Brian S. Kendig \ Macintosh | Engineering, | bskendig | | Computer Engineering |\ Thought | USS Enterprise | @phoenix.Princeton.EDU | Princeton University |_\ Police | -= NCC-1701-D =- | @PUCC.BITNET | "You gave your life to become the person you are right now. Was it worth it?"
george@swbatl.sbc.com (George Nincehelser 5-6544) (04/18/91)
In article <YEE.91Apr17140837@katana.osf.org> yee@osf.org (Michael K. Yee) writes: >In article <1991Apr17.045421.29754@verity.com> anders@verity.com (Anders Wallgren) writes: > > Sound like a very bad user interface if the control panel icons look > worst than the current icons displayed in the 6.0 Control Panel. > User interfaces should get better, not worst. I don't have 7.0, but > it seems that Apple had their heart in the wrong place in getting > rid of the Control Panel. I think the Control Panel is a good idea. > The original Control Panel concept seem like a more natural way to > deal with the setting of system parameters than the 7.0 paradigm of > clicking on CDev files on the desktop. > Accessing the Control Panel is much like system 6. The system 7 installer puts an alias to the Control Panel folder in the Apple menu...so selecting "Control Panel" in the Apple menu opens the Control Panel folder. Double clicking on the control panel items seems more integrated with the way things on a Mac normally operate. It takes a little getting used to for us old timers, but we can adapt. It should be simple for someone to may a system 6 control panel look alike for system 7. -- / George David Nincehelser \ george@swbatl.sbc.com \ / / Southwestern Bell Telephone \ Phone: (314) 235-6544 \ / / / Advanced Technology Laboratory \ Fax: (314) 235-5797 \ / / / /\ 1010 Pine, St. Louis, MO 63101 \ de asini umbra disceptare \
dweisman@umiami.ir.miami.edu (Ordinary Man) (04/19/91)
In article <1991Apr17.205125.27515@swbatl.sbc.com>, george@swbatl.sbc.com (George Nincehelser 5-6544) writes: > Accessing the Control Panel is much like system 6. The system 7 installer > puts an alias to the Control Panel folder in the Apple menu...so selecting > "Control Panel" in the Apple menu opens the Control Panel folder. Right, and keep in mind that you can also add aliases to individual CDEV's to the Apple menu folder and have then open from the apple menu. It's easier than opening the folder from the menu and then scrolling if necessary and then double-clicking the one you want. This is especially true for frequently used CDEV's. Dan /-------------------------------------------------------------------------\ | Dan Weisman - University of Miami - Florida | || || || || | |--------------------------------------------------| || || ||\ /|| | | INTERNET -----> dweisman@umiami.IR.Miami.edu | || || || | || | | BITNET -----> dweisman@umiami | ||||||| || | || | |-------------------------------------------------------------------------| | "The more I get to see, the less I understand..." - Triumph | \_________________________________________________________________________/
aland@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Alan D.) (04/23/91)
In article <YEE.91Apr17140837@katana.osf.org> yee@osf.org (Michael K. Yee) writes:
The original Control Panel concept seem like a more natural way to
deal with the setting of system parameters than the 7.0 paradigm of
clicking on CDev files on the desktop.
How about this... Put an alias to the Control Panel folder into the
Apple Menu Items folder, and put the Control Panel Folder into View by
Name. This will allow you to double-click on them, without the icons
being confusing at all!
I guess this is another area where a 3rd party company can develop a
old style Control Panel DA or application.
True, but not necessary... If you REALLY want that functionality, try
_Launch & install the Control Panel files into it... I haven't tried
it, so I don't know if it works, but it will definitely provide a
single "Launching Pad" for them... If it works. :)
-=Alan
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