so273208@seas.gwu.edu (Jens Johansen) (04/23/91)
In a recent MacWeek they discussed compatibility of existing applications with System 7.0, and they had a small table listing compatible products and incompatible products. It was very short, though, so here's an idea: Can we start the creation of a more complete table here on the net? I'll start the ball rolling (very slowly, since I'm not a beta tester) with the following table: Compatible | Incompatible | Incompatible | Unknown compat. as of now | upgrade expected | and totally dead | status ___________________________________________________________________________ Word 3.02 | Norton Utils 1.0 | MacWrite 5.0 | virtually everything Excel 2.2 | MacPaint 2.0 | older MacPaint | else Word 4.0 | HyperCard 2.0 | older HyperCard | <add your bits here> Thanks in advance, Jens -- Jens Johansen GTE Spacenet internet: so273208@seas.gwu.edu 1750 Old Meadow Road Dept. of Operations Research McLean, VA 22102 The George Wasington University (703) 848 1279
wilkins@jarthur.Claremont.EDU (Mark Wilkins) (04/23/91)
In article <3102@sparko.gwu.edu> so273208@seas.gwu.edu (Jens Johansen) writes: > > Compatible | Incompatible | Incompatible | Unknown compat. > as of now | upgrade expected | and totally dead | status >___________________________________________________________________________ >Word 3.02 | Norton Utils 1.0 | MacWrite 5.0 | virtually everything >Excel 2.2 | MacPaint 2.0 | older MacPaint | else >Word 4.0 | HyperCard 2.0 | older HyperCard | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Why is HC 2.0 incompatible? I've run it almost constantly for several months in 24 and 32 bit mode with no trouble under 7.0a9, b1, and b4. > ><add your bits here> MacWrite II 1.1 Nisus 3.0 Adobe Photoshop SimCity 1.2c Mathematica 1.2.2 MacTools Deluxe Retrospect 1.2 White Knight 11 StuffIt Deluxe THINK C 4.0.4 Wingz 1.1 Studio/1 PixelPaint Pro PowerPoint Dreams Freehand Nemesis Go Master SoundEdit 2.0.3 ResEdit 2.1 Disinfectant VersaTerm Expressionist (app only) ---------------------------------- -- Mark Wilkins -- ******* "Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitude!" ********** *-----------------------------------------------------------------------------* * Mark R. Wilkins wilkins@jarthur.claremont.edu {uunet}!jarthur!wilkins * ****** MARK.WILKINS on AppleLink ****** MWilkins on America Online ******
ghe@physics.orst.edu (Guangliang He) (04/23/91)
In article <3102@sparko.gwu.edu>, so273208@seas.gwu.edu (Jens Johansen) writes: |> Compatible | Incompatible | Incompatible | Unknown compat. |> as of now | upgrade expected | and totally dead | status |> ___________________________________________________________________________ |> Word 3.02 | Norton Utils 1.0 | MacWrite 5.0 | virtually everything |> Excel 2.2 | MacPaint 2.0 | older MacPaint | else |> Word 4.0 | HyperCard 2.0 | older HyperCard | |> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Are you sure about the HyperCard 2.0? I used it this morning with system 7.0f2 without any problem. Or maybe I was lucky did not hit the bomb place? --- Guangliang He ghe@physics.orst.edu
dawg6844@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Race Bannon) (04/23/91)
I think it would be most feasible to start a list of applications that are NOT compatible, since nearly all of mine are, and that encompasses hundreds. (Although there are a substantial number that run fine in 24-bit and not 32) -- _______________________________________________________________________________ Dan Walkowski | To understand recursion, Univ. of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci. | you must first understand recursion. walkowsk@cs.uiuc.edu |
drenze@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu (Douglas Renze) (04/23/91)
Well, I'm probably the only person who uses this particular app, but FullWrite Professional 1.0.1 is fully compatible with System 7 (and I use it very exten- sively and "harshly," if you will).
drc@claris.com (Dennis Cohen) (04/23/91)
so273208@seas.gwu.edu (Jens Johansen) writes: >In a recent MacWeek they discussed compatibility of existing applications >with System 7.0, and they had a small table listing compatible products >and incompatible products. It was very short, though, so here's an idea: >Can we start the creation of a more complete table here on the net? I'll >start the ball rolling (very slowly, since I'm not a beta tester) with the >following table: > Compatible | Incompatible | Incompatible | Unknown compat. > as of now | upgrade expected | and totally dead | status >___________________________________________________________________________ >Word 3.02 | Norton Utils 1.0 | MacWrite 5.0 | virtually everything >Excel 2.2 | MacPaint 2.0 | older MacPaint | else >Word 4.0 | HyperCard 2.0 | older HyperCard | The above list has a number of inaccuracies in it (as do most quotes from MacWeek). Speaking just to the Claris items, MacPaint 2.0 is "Mostly compatible" (Apple's term meaning that you should be no worse off running it under 7.0 than under 6.0.7 and that any 7.0-specific bugs are both hidden and minor), not "Incompatible, upgrade expected". HyperCard 2.0 is also in the "Mostly Compatible" category, and the upgrade is included in the 7.0 upgrade package (that's what the RI code in the compatibility checker means, Replacement Included). I thought it was a little irresponsible of MacWeek to take a known incomplete and inaccurate database that Apple distributed specifically to solicit updates and additions as a compatibility statement. Do you know of a better way to get companies off their collective duffs and have them submit information than to have inaccurate, negatively slanted information in a "draft" document? The only thing that such "dissemination" accomplishes is to raise the fear level of the consumer, usually without reason. The Compatibility Checker stack is due to go "Golden" any day now. That would give MacWeek a few weeks to pre-publicize all the information that the _REAL_ stack contains, but I guess that sensationalism is more important to them. READ MY DISCLAIMER BELOW, IT IS ESPECIALLY PERTINENT TO THIS POSTING! -- | Dennis Cohen drc@claris.com COHEN2 AFC DCohen 71076,1377 | Internet AppleLink AmerOnline CompuServe | Disclaimer: Any unattributed opinions expressed above are _MINE_!
ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright) (04/24/91)
In article <3102@sparko.gwu.edu> so273208@seas.gwu.edu (Jens Johansen) writes: > > Compatible | Incompatible | Incompatible | Unknown compat. > as of now | upgrade expected | and totally dead | status >___________________________________________________________________________ >Word 3.02 | Norton Utils 1.0 | MacWrite 5.0 | virtually everything >Excel 2.2 | MacPaint 2.0 | older MacPaint | else >Word 4.0 | HyperCard 2.0 | older HyperCard | You need to add more columns to your table. Does "incompatible" means "incompatible under VM," "incompatible in 32-bit mode," or "incompatible even with VM and 32-bit addressing turned off."
hp48sx@wuarchive.wustl.edu (HP48SX Archive Maintainer) (04/25/91)
NISUS 3.05 is NOT completely compatibole with 7.0f2 You can't redefine command-key combinations, as all menus are greyed out when the selection dialog is in front :^( I guess system 7.0 will clean up in the world of software pirates :^) most older pirated software can't run, and can't be upgraded. This is good news for software houses and resllers. -- ******************************************************* Povl H. Pedersen hp48sx@wuarchive.wustl.edu HP48sx archive maintainer
dan@hpnmdla.hp.com (Dan Pleasant) (04/25/91)
>Well, I'm probably the only person who uses this particular app, but FullWrite >Professional 1.0.1 is fully compatible with System 7 (and I use it very exten- >sively and "harshly," if you will). I use FullWrite 1.5, and it has at least one problem with 7.0b4. If you try to set columns (click to "Set Margins" button in the Page Setup dialog) the dialog which normally appears does not. The menus are disabled, and Fullwrite acts as though the dialog is there, but it isn't. Command-period will back out of this state, but you can't set the margins. Dan Pleasant [Too lazy to make a .signature file. But if I wasn't, it would give my return address as dan@sr.hp.com and it would insert a standard disclaimer here.]
drg@mdaali.mda.uth.tmc.edu (David Gutierrez) (04/25/91)
In article <5661@ns-mx.uiowa.edu> drenze@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu (Douglas Renze) writes: > Well, I'm probably the only person who uses this particular app, but FullWrite > Professional 1.0.1 is fully compatible with System 7 (and I use it very exten- > sively and "harshly," if you will). That's interesting. Ashton-Tate is planning to update the current version of FullWrite (1.5s) to 1.6 when System 7.0 is released. David Gutierrez drg@mdaali.mda.uth.tmc.edu "Only fools are positive." - Moe Howard
chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach, only here for the beer) (04/25/91)
drg@mdaali.mda.uth.tmc.edu (David Gutierrez) writes: >> Well, I'm probably the only person who uses this particular app, but >FullWrite >> Professional 1.0.1 is fully compatible with System 7 (and I use it very >exten- >> sively and "harshly," if you will). This is why this kind of "on the net" listing is so silly and unreliable. >That's interesting. Ashton-Tate is planning to update the current version >of FullWrite (1.5s) to 1.6 when System 7.0 is released. So FWP 1.0.1 supports apple events? subscribe and the edition manager? Aliases? 7.0 stationery? Look -- the ONLY people who know whether an application is compatible with 7.0 is the vendor. Even Apple doesn't -- we don't have the time or the energy to exhaustively test everything out there, which is why 7.0's been as widely ditributed to the developer world as it was. If someone posts "foo is compatible" on USENET, all that REALLY means is "I haven't crashed it on my system". The same with "Foo crashes badly" -- all that means is that it doesn't work with that person's specific configuration. That information is useful in some ways, but keep it in perspective. Just because program foo works on my MacII with 8 meg doesn't mean it's going to work on a IIsi with internal monitor, 32 bit quickdraw and 17 meg, or a IIfx in 32 bit mode with 16 megs of RAM and an 8x24 card with a 2 page monitor. Just because a program crashes in one place doesn't mean much -- it might have been corrupted software, or a specific set of unhappy inits (um, extenions) or whatever. Or maybe it IS incompatible. Without exhaustive testing on a large number of configurations, you don't knw. It's all rumor and hearsay. Now, none of this means that simply because the vendor says you need a new version means you really need it. If it's not crahsing -- great. Perhaps they're just adding the new functionality like publish/subscribe or events. Or pe3rhaps you're just not running into the bugs because you don't have 16Meg of RAM and are running in 32bit mode. It just means it's not crashing for you. Great. So keep the stuff you hear, evne from us dweebs from Apple, in perspective. The ONLY voice of authority on this is the vendor for each product. Anything you see from any other source -- the net, MacLeak, your neighbor's poodle -- is going to be incomplete, inaccurate, based on simplistic and unexhaustive testing and probably out of date. Use it with caution. -- Chuq Von Rospach >=< chuq@apple.com >=< GEnie: CHUQ >=< AppleLink: CHUQ SFWA Nebula Awards Reports Editor =+= Editor, OtherRealms Book Reviewer, Amazing Stories ---@--- #include <standard/disclaimer.h> Recommended: ORION IN THE DYING TIME Ben Bova (Tor, Aug, ***-); SACRED VISIONS Greeley&Cassutt (Tor, Aug, ****+); MEN AT WORK George Will (****); XENOCIDE Orson Scott Card (August, ****)
mitch@Apple.COM (Mitch Adler) (04/25/91)
In article <1991Apr22.184930.29094@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> ghe@physics.orst.edu writes: >In article <3102@sparko.gwu.edu>, so273208@seas.gwu.edu (Jens Johansen) writes: > >|> Compatible | Incompatible | Incompatible | Unknown compat. >|> as of now | upgrade expected | and totally dead | status >|> ___________________________________________________________________________ >|> Word 4.0 | HyperCard 2.0 | older HyperCard | >|> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >Are you sure about the HyperCard 2.0? I used it this morning with system 7.0f2 >without any problem. Or maybe I was lucky did not hit the bomb place? You've probably run into a problem with some XCMD/XFNC, I use HC 2.0 (and so does most of apple) under 7.0 with no problems, except on some stacks with buggy XCMD/XFNCs. -- Mitch Adler mitch@apple.com Development Systems Apple Computer, Inc. AppleLink: M.Adler Claimer: These are MY opinions, not Darin's, not Apple's! MINE!
REEKES@applelink.apple.com (Jim Reekes) (04/26/91)
In article <11847@jarthur.Claremont.EDU>, wilkins@jarthur.Claremont.EDU (Mark Wilkins) writes: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Why is HC 2.0 incompatible? I've run it almost constantly for several > months in 24 and 32 bit mode with no trouble under 7.0a9, b1, and b4. There's a 32 bit mode related bug when the System's WDEF gets purged. So, you'll see this one only when in 32 bit mode and after the WDEF was purged. Jim Reekes, Toolbox Engineer (yeah I work on the Sound Manager...)
drg@mdaali.mda.uth.tmc.edu (David Gutierrez) (04/27/91)
In article <51975@apple.Apple.COM> chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach, only here for the beer) writes: > drg@mdaali.mda.uth.tmc.edu (David Gutierrez) writes: > > >> Well, I'm probably the only person who uses this particular app, but > >FullWrite > >> Professional 1.0.1 is fully compatible with System 7 (and I use it very > >exten- > >> sively and "harshly," if you will). > > This is why this kind of "on the net" listing is so silly and unreliable. > > >That's interesting. Ashton-Tate is planning to update the current version > >of FullWrite (1.5s) to 1.6 when System 7.0 is released. > > So FWP 1.0.1 supports apple events? subscribe and the edition manager? > Aliases? 7.0 stationery? > > Look -- the ONLY people who know whether an application is compatible with > 7.0 is the vendor. Even Apple doesn't -- we don't have the time or the > energy to exhaustively test everything out there, which is why 7.0's been as > widely ditributed to the developer world as it was. > (lots more flaming deleted) Thanks for the lecture, Chuq. Too bad you're flaming the wrong guy. If you'll look at my post that you quoted, you'll see that I was quoting someone else who said that FWP 1.0.1 was fully compatible with 7.0. I haven't seen anything "fully compatible" (publish/subscribe, AppleEvents, etc.) yet and don't expect to until autumn, although I'm sure I'll be reading all about such programs in a couple of weeks. My only contribution in this matter was to mention that I had read (in the 7.0 compatibility checker, I think) that Ashton-Tate would be releasing FullWrite 1.6 for use under System 7.0. I don't know whether it makes use of 7.0 features or if it's just a bug fix. I imagine I'll find out sometime after May 13. Next time you decide to make someone look like an idiot on the net, check the details before you flame. I hope you "dweebs at Apple" are a little more careful with your programming than with your flaming. I'd hate to feel I had to wait for System 7.0.1 before I could safely upgrade my machines. David Gutierrez drg@mdaali.mda.uth.tmc.edu "Only fools are positive." - Moe Howard
ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright) (04/27/91)
In article <10200001@hpnmdla.hp.com> dan@hpnmdla.hp.com (Dan Pleasant) writes: >I use FullWrite 1.5, and it has at least one problem with 7.0b4. If >you try to set columns (click to "Set Margins" button in the Page >Setup dialog) the dialog which normally appears does not. The menus >are disabled, and Fullwrite acts as though the dialog is there, but it >isn't. Command-period will back out of this state, but you can't set >the margins. It has the same problem with 6.0.7.
marshall@sdd.hp.com (Marshall Clow) (04/27/91)
In article <10200001@hpnmdla.hp.com> dan@hpnmdla.hp.com (Dan Pleasant) writes: >>Well, I'm probably the only person who uses this particular app, but FullWrite >>Professional 1.0.1 is fully compatible with System 7 (and I use it very exten- >>sively and "harshly," if you will). > >I use FullWrite 1.5, and it has at least one problem with 7.0b4. If >you try to set columns (click to "Set Margins" button in the Page >Setup dialog) the dialog which normally appears does not. The menus >are disabled, and Fullwrite acts as though the dialog is there, but it >isn't. Command-period will back out of this state, but you can't set >the margins. > >Dan Pleasant > That is not a system 7 specific bug. The problem is that FW checks the location of the page-setup window using port^.portBits.bounds. Unfortuantely, this assumes that the page setup window is a black and white window. Under System 7 the LaserWriter ( and probably ImageWriter, et. al. ) use color windows for page-setup and print dialogs, so FW gets a bogus rectangle for the location of the window, and centers the "Margins" dialog in some random place ( usually off the screen ). If you have a two-page display, you can sometimes see the dialog. So, the dialog is there, just off the screen. Marshall Clow Hewlett Packard Color Imaging Division marshall@sdd.hp.com AppleLink: HP.Marshall
jmunkki@hila.hut.fi (Juri Munkki) (04/28/91)
In article <1991Apr26.220236.8364@sdd.hp.com> marshall@sdd.hp.com (Marshall Clow) writes: >That is not a system 7 specific bug. The problem is that FW checks the location >of the page-setup window using port^.portBits.bounds. Unfortuantely, this >assumes that the page setup window is a black and white window. Under System 7 >the LaserWriter ( and probably ImageWriter, et. al. ) use color windows for >page-setup and print dialogs, so FW gets a bogus rectangle for the location >of the window, and centers the "Margins" dialog in some random place >( usually off the screen ). If you have a two-page display, you can sometimes >see the dialog. So, the dialog is there, just off the screen. Now that the problem has been identified, someone can easily fix it with a binary patch. I still use FullWrite 1.0 (and I use it quite a lot) and it also has that problem. I'll probably try to patch it the next time I need the set margins dialog. The easiest fix would be to write an FKEY that moves the front window onto the main screen. Running this FKEY would then make the invisible dialog visible. To patch FullWrite itself, one has to drop into the debugger at the correct spot (easy to detect with TMON) make changes to the code resource, call ChangedResource and WriteResource on the CODE resource that was changed. This will make the application slightly larger, because FullWrite compresses most CODE resources. Fortunately it checks for the compression, so writing the uncompressed resource doesn't make it malfunction. I've done some FullWrite binary patching a few years ago. The FKEY solution is by far the easiest and as such I recommend it. Actually, I just noticed I had some time on my hands, so I wrote the FKEY for you. It took me 15 minutes and it seems to work with everything I tried (a few applications), so it's not really FullWrite-specific. The Set Margins dialog works now beautifully. I'm including the source code and a very short BinHex file with this message. Use ResEdit to paste this resource into your copy of FullWrite and hit cmd-shift-8 after the Set Margins button. Voila! Think C source: void main() { GrafPort DummyPort; Rect MainScreen; WindowPtr FunkyFront; Point Movement; OpenPort(&DummyPort); MainScreen = DummyPort.portBits.bounds; ClosePort(&DummyPort); FunkyFront = FrontWindow(); Movement.h = (MainScreen.right-MainScreen.left -FunkyFront->portRect.right+FunkyFront->portRect.left)/2; Movement.v = (MainScreen.bottom-MainScreen.top -FunkyFront->portRect.bottom+FunkyFront->portRect.top)/2; MoveWindow(FunkyFront,Movement.h,Movement.v,0); } (This file must be converted with BinHex 4.0) :$NCeE'aAFQPdC5"'5d9C!$q3#!#3#!(PXVN!N!3"!*!$!DB!N!1Q!*!$2dqep2Y IN!2%a)@eY9YE9B99a%@Na&A%T-5&9EA9fNe0$NCeE'aAFQPdC5"'5d9CC3)!N!- rN!J!N!BrN!J!N"LN3)MT!*!'!HAm6da&6%9F6%KF6%T-5N5eT+5-4%6D6Ga06D6 8fefNe0T)fNh%h8e0YGa&YIA%a04%r%A%YD5N68T2484"&9Z3"&@-5&L3"-5&JBa ,@eA%YE&26m6dqNr%qeqNr%q3!m6dr%p&@e99@e@&9F48YF6%5&a-40AD6D6F6F6 D6EAEA3#3!k*J$J!!4NY&@3!)!*!'3IVrlNja6R&J!!!#6PErK%KZrj5SEd(Zria $l[qF)0NJf8KZrj5SI8+RU53JAbe)riJ`,[q5N!"ZriiJE[q)N!"S!"BJE[q)d'J !%NM!JI`!!Me!riB`,[q3!*!!E[q-)'lrL*!!D!!8)'lrL0"S!"")`)(m!!)p32q %,blrL$mZriBr,[q%3QHT'djH6R9038P1)*!%!!!"!*!$!DB!N!1Q!*!$2`!ab,J (@J#3!a`!-J!!4NY&@3#3!`S!#!!!&!#3"$()%!a$C@jdCA*AD@jNEhICc!: Let me know if you like this kludgey solution. ____________________________________________________________________________ / Juri Munkki / Helsinki University of Technology / Wind / Project / / jmunkki@hut.fi / Computing Center Macintosh Support / Surf / STORM / ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
murdock@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Jon Kyle Murdock) (04/30/91)
While we're on the subject of compatability...
I have heard rumors that only certain hard disk drivers will be compatable
with System 7.0 virtual memory. Since I don't use a hard drive that the
Apple utilities will recognize, this is a concern. Has anyone ran across drivers that will not work?
Thanks,
Kyle
murdock@ksuvm.ksu.edu
murdock@matt.ksu.ksu.edudawg6844@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Dan Walkowski) (05/01/91)
murdock@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Jon Kyle Murdock) writes: >While we're on the subject of compatability... >I have heard rumors that only certain hard disk drivers will be compatable >with System 7.0 virtual memory. Since I don't use a hard drive that the >Apple utilities will recognize, this is a concern. Has anyone ran across drivers that will not work? I can verify that Silverlining DOES work, and very nicely. If you happen to be using the Apple HD Setup drivers, you are told (upon trying to start up VM) that you need to re-run the new 7.0 Apple HD Setup to enable VM. -- _______________________________________________________________________________ Dan Walkowski | To understand recursion, Univ. of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci. | you must first understand recursion. walkowsk@cs.uiuc.edu |
russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto) (05/01/91)
In article <1991Apr30.161750.14748@maverick.ksu.ksu.edu> murdock@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Jon Kyle Murdock) writes: >While we're on the subject of compatability... >I have heard rumors that only certain hard disk drivers will be compatable >with System 7.0 virtual memory. Since I don't use a hard drive that the >Apple utilities will recognize, this is a concern. Has anyone ran across drivers that will not work? The earlier (than 7.0) Apple drivers. SilverLining drivers appear to work. Apple's 7.0 HD SC utility crashes with virtual memory on. -- Matthew T. Russotto russotto@eng.umd.edu russotto@wam.umd.edu .sig under construction, like the rest of this campus.
MacUserLabs@cup.portal.com (Stephan - Somogyi) (05/01/91)
murdock@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Jon Kyle Murdock) writes: >I have heard rumors that only certain hard disk drivers will be >compatable with System 7.0 virtual memory. Since I don't use a hard >drive that the Apple utilities will recognize, this is a concern. The issue with hd drivers is that they have to be re-entrant. If you get a page fault during a file system access the driver has to be able to cope. Silverlining 5.28 works fine for me. Check with your driver manufacturer whether their driver is re-entrant. ______________________________________________________________________ Stephan Somogyi No. No. No. I'm NOT with MIS. MacUser