pascal@CAM.ORG (Pascal Gosselin) (04/23/91)
Just thought you might like to know that System 7.0 will NOT be made available through 'copy-all-you-want' dealers, user groups, etc... Apple will be charging (I can't reveil the amount 'cuz of non-disclosure, but I was told that I could say to customers that there will be a fee involved) for System 7.0 . Lets just say you could buy yourself a copy of Windows 3.0 for a lot less. You won't even escape the cost by buying a new Mac. 7.0 won't ship in the box until September (at least in Canada). That's about all I can say until May 13th... -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Pascal Gosselin | Internet: P.Gosselin@CAM.ORG Applelink: CDA0585 | | Gest-Mac Inc. Apple VAR | Voice (514) 767-4444 Fax (514) 767-7337 | +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
curfmanm@darkstar.cas.orst.edu (Matthew Curfmanm) (04/24/91)
Actualy, Apple really hasn't said it will charge for System 7.0. What they
did tell the VAR's and dealers was that they 'could' charge some duplicating
charge for System 7.0: something like $20 for a copy. I would imagine that
this permission will in fact lead to the dealers charging for copies, but
they don't have to :-)
Apple is stressing to the VAR's and dealers that anybody interested in
upgrading should buy the upgrade kit, which includes the docs. I understand
that this will cost in around $100.00. Their reasoning is that there are many
changes in System 7.0, and that we are not smart enough to figure them out
without reading their docs.
Apple will not be shipping System 7.0 with machines until September, to allow
developers to catch up and have System 7.0-ready apps available.
This is at least what Apple Oregon told their dealers in what might be called
a heated question and answer period regarding this subject. There was a lot
of confussion between the dealers and Apple about the free copy thing, and
Apple kinda him-hawed around the subject, finaly saying what I mentioned above.
--
______________________________________________________________________________
Matt Curfman Oregon State University
curfmanm@darkstar.cas.orst.edu Extension Computing Technology Unit
Standard Disclaimer Appliesmacman@wpi.WPI.EDU (Chris Silverberg) (04/24/91)
In an article pascal@CAM.ORG (Pascal Gosselin) rambles: >Just thought you might like to know that System 7.0 will NOT be made >available through 'copy-all-you-want' dealers, user groups, etc... >Apple will be charging (I can't reveil the amount 'cuz of non-disclosure, >but I was told that I could say to customers that there will be a fee >involved) for System 7.0 . Lets just say you could buy yourself a copy >of Windows 3.0 for a lot less. There are still conflicting view apparently then... I have been told by serveral sources that user groups will be able to distribute System 7 by the same means that they have been distributing system 6.x. As MacWeek reported, Apple seems to realize that system 7 will be pretty much copies all over the place (which is the way it should be). People who do not purchase 7.0 from a dealer will still be able to access technical support, although they will have to pay for the calls. (A person who purchases System 7.0 will have toll free tech support). - Chris =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Chris Silverberg INTERNET: macman@wpi.wpi.edu Worcester Polytechnic Institute Main Street USA 508-832-7725 (sysop) America Online: TfChris WMUG BBS 508-832-5844 (sysop)
greg@enterprise.Sun.COM (Greg George - Sun Area Project Consultant - Midwest ) (04/24/91)
In article <1991Apr23.041147.5758@CAM.ORG>, pascal@CAM.ORG (Pascal Gosselin) writes: |> Just thought you might like to know that System 7.0 will NOT be made |> available through 'copy-all-you-want' dealers, user groups, etc... |> |> Apple will be charging (I can't reveil the amount 'cuz of non-disclosure, |> but I was told that I could say to customers that there will be a fee |> involved) for System 7.0 . |>Lets just say you could buy yourself a copy |> of Windows 3.0 for a lot less. Gee, thats interesting, I just spoke to a friend of mine at a large software distributor who already has a retail price of $99.00. With normal "street" pricing it should be selling for ~$80.00. |> You won't even escape the cost by buying a new Mac. 7.0 won't ship in the |> box until September (at least in Canada). |> |> That's about all I can say until May 13th... |> |> |> -- |> +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |> | Pascal Gosselin | Internet: P.Gosselin@CAM.ORG Applelink: CDA0585 | |> | Gest-Mac Inc. Apple VAR | Voice (514) 767-4444 Fax (514) 767-7337 | |> +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ greg
Charles.E.Dubuque@dartmouth.edu (Charles E. Dubuque) (04/24/91)
a) who sez? b) just in canada? c) is this a joke? Chuck ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Chuck Dubuque ||"It's one thing to think something that seems Dartmouth College || completely impossible. But quite another to HB 4233 Hanover NH || say it..." -- Silent Invasion, book II 03755 || C.Dubuque@Dartmouth.edu || DartmouthUs -not- the Review, but it's close ------------------------------------------------------------------------
resnick@cogsci.uiuc.edu (Pete Resnick) (04/24/91)
pascal@CAM.ORG (Pascal Gosselin) writes: >Just thought you might like to know that System 7.0 will NOT be made >available through 'copy-all-you-want' dealers, user groups, etc... >Apple will be charging (I can't reveil the amount 'cuz of non-disclosure, >but I was told that I could say to customers that there will be a fee >involved) for System 7.0 . Well, the rumor mill continues... I just got off the phone with the Apple Assistance Center (Ann, by the way, is a very nice person, and put up with me and all of my silly questions much longer than she needed to). They claim that the policy on System 7 will be exactly the same as before: you pay if you want the manuals. curfmanm@darkstar.cas.orst.edu (Matthew Curfmanm) writes: >Actualy, Apple really hasn't said it will charge for System 7.0. What they >did tell the VAR's and dealers was that they 'could' charge some duplicating >charge for System 7.0: something like $20 for a copy. I would imagine that >this permission will in fact lead to the dealers charging for copies, but >they don't have to :-) This, again according to AAC, has always been the policy, that is, that dealers have always been allowed to charge you for duplicating costs if they so desired. I was not real fond of Pascal's apparent "I-know-something-you-don't-know" attitude and giving out what is apparently misinformation, especially given that he has been given some amount of trust by Apple with a non- disclosure agreement. Next time, don't bother posting unless you are willing to tell us who in Apple told you this and where it is in writing. pr -- Pete Resnick (...so what is a mojo, and why would one be rising?) Graduate assistant - Philosophy Department, Gregory Hall, UIUC System manager - Cognitive Science Group, Beckman Institute, UIUC Internet/ARPAnet/EDUnet : resnick@cogsci.uiuc.edu BITNET (if no other way) : FREE0285@UIUCVMD
pascal@CAM.ORG (Pascal Gosselin) (04/24/91)
pascal@CAM.ORG (Pascal Gosselin) writes: >Just thought you might like to know that System 7.0 will NOT be made >available through 'copy-all-you-want' dealers, user groups, etc... >Apple will be charging (I can't reveil the amount 'cuz of non-disclosure, >but I was told that I could say to customers that there will be a fee >involved) for System 7.0 . Lets just say you could buy yourself a copy >of Windows 3.0 for a lot less. >You won't even escape the cost by buying a new Mac. 7.0 won't ship in the >box until September (at least in Canada). >That's about all I can say until May 13th... In a self-reply, I'd like to mention (as many people pointed out to me) that this in the situation in Canada. It seems that Apple just couldn't take the bad press of doing a similar move in the U.S. -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Pascal Gosselin | Internet: P.Gosselin@CAM.ORG Applelink: CDA0585 | | Gest-Mac Inc. Apple VAR | Voice (514) 767-4444 Fax (514) 767-7337 | +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
whitneyh@ogicse.ogi.edu (Whitney Hunter ) (04/24/91)
Haven't we been through this before? Why is everybody an expert, but no one can agree? Personally, I'm tired of the speculation. May 13 is only a few weeks away. I guess we will find out then. Whitney
drenze@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu (Douglas Renze) (04/24/91)
In article <20460@ogicse.ogi.edu> whitneyh@ogicse.ogi.edu (Whitney Hunter ) writes: >Haven't we been through this before? Why is everybody an expert, but no one >can agree? Personally, I'm tired of the speculation. May 13 is only a few >weeks away. I guess we will find out then. > >Whitney I heartily agree! Can we drop this at long last? 'Course, I'm planning on buying it anyway. ;)
costello@UUCP (Michael E. Costello) (04/24/91)
In article <1991Apr23.041147.5758@CAM.ORG>, pascal@CAM.ORG (Pascal Gosselin) writes: > > Just thought you might like to know that System 7.0 will NOT be made > available through 'copy-all-you-want' dealers, user groups, etc... > > Apple will be charging (I can't reveil the amount 'cuz of non-disclosure, > but I was told that I could say to customers that there will be a fee > involved) for System 7.0 . Lets just say you could buy yourself a copy > of Windows 3.0 for a lot less. > Please check your information. I can tell you that we *will* be selling System 7 as a user group. We will be selling the 9 disk upgrade package for around $30. Of course, this does not include Apple's documentation. Also for the first time, this will not include Hypercard 2.1 (HC 2.1 *will* be a part of the 12 disk, $99 package available from dealers). I am coordinating the System 7 rollout meeting in Boston, which will take place on May 22. Apple has said all along that user groups will have access to System 7. Think about it for a minute--how else will they achieve the market penetration that S7 needs to succeed? Regards, || Michael Costello, Meeting Director || costello@world.std.com || BCS*Mac || The Boston Computer Society Macintosh User Group || P.O. Box 2591; Woburn, MA 01888 617-631-8188
awessels@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Allen Wessels) (04/24/91)
In article <1991Apr23.222508.29349@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> resnick@cogsci.uiuc.edu (Pete Resnick) writes: >I was not real fond of Pascal's apparent "I-know-something-you-don't-know" >attitude and giving out what is apparently misinformation, especially >given that he has been given some amount of trust by Apple with a non- >disclosure agreement. Next time, don't bother posting unless you are If I were a cynic, I would consider the advantage to a VAR of "preparing" users for an upgrade fee. I mean, they got the information straight of "the Net". Every source I have access to says that the software can be copied free, but the docs will cost.
ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright) (04/25/91)
Look, people, we heard it fron an Apple dealer (or at least a VAR... close enough), so we *know* it isn't true. :-):-):-)
hp48sx@wuarchive.wustl.edu (HP48SX Archive Maintainer) (04/25/91)
I work at a danish Apple Center when I am not studying. I am going to an Apple introduktion of system 7.0 the week before the 13th. We have been promised the international version of 7.0 would be available there, and a danish beta at the same time or shortly after. The danish version will be ready this fall, and can not be distributed before. I think this has something to to with 3rd party developers. Apple Denmark couldn't promise me copies of any 3rd party stuff at the introduction. So I have contacted some developers in USA to get a copy for an introduction I am gonna make in the week when system 7.0 is released. -- ******************************************************* Povl H. Pedersen hp48sx@wuarchive.wustl.edu HP48sx archive maintainer
palmer@whistler.sfu.ca (Leigh Palmer) (04/25/91)
In article <1991Apr24.005826.1050@CAM.ORG> pascal@CAM.ORG (Pascal Gosselin) writes: >In a self-reply, I'd like to mention (as many people pointed out to me) >that this in the situation in Canada. It seems that Apple just couldn't >take the bad press of doing a similar move in the U.S. Only in Canada, you say? Pity...
jas@ISI.EDU (Jeff Sullivan) (04/25/91)
In article <3851@texsun.Central.Sun.COM> greg@enterprise.Sun.COM (Greg George - Sun Area Project Consultant - Midwest ) writes: >|>Lets just say you could buy yourself a copy >|> of Windows 3.0 for a lot less. > >Gee, thats interesting, I just spoke to a friend of mine at a large >software distributor who already has a retail price of $99.00. With >normal "street" pricing it should be selling for ~$80.00. > FYI, I've seen Win3 for as low as $50... jas -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey A. Sullivan | Senior Systems Programmer jas@venera.isi.edu | Information Sciences Institute jas@isi.edu | University of Southern California
philip@pescadero.Stanford.EDU (Philip Machanick) (04/25/91)
In article <17708@venera.isi.edu>, jas@ISI.EDU (Jeff Sullivan) writes: |> In article <3851@texsun.Central.Sun.COM> greg@enterprise.Sun.COM (Greg George - Sun Area Project Consultant - Midwest ) writes: |> |> >|>Lets just say you could buy yourself a copy |> >|> of Windows 3.0 for a lot less. |> > |> >Gee, thats interesting, I just spoke to a friend of mine at a large |> >software distributor who already has a retail price of $99.00. With |> >normal "street" pricing it should be selling for ~$80.00. |> > |> |> FYI, I've seen Win3 for as low as $50... For everyone who thinks Apple's policy for previous versions is unclear, I quote from Apple's MacX Installation Guide: MacX requires version 6.0.4 or later ... Your authorized Apple dealer can give you a free upgrade if you do not have version 6.0.4. -- Philip Machanick philip@pescadero.stanford.edu
scott@hsvaic.boeing.com (Scott Hinckley) (04/25/91)
>In article <1991Apr23.041147.5758@CAM.ORG>, pascal@CAM.ORG (Pascal Gosselin) writes: >|> Apple will be charging (I can't reveil the amount 'cuz of non-disclosure, >|> but I was told that I could say to customers that there will be a fee >|> involved) for System 7.0 . >|>Lets just say you could buy yourself a copy >|> of Windows 3.0 for a lot less. You must be thinking about the CD ROM version ($300, includes 2 manual sets and 180 days of support). The 14 disk set ($99 includes 1 manual and 90 days support) -- <<<<<<<<<<<Scott Hinckley<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>VW&Apple][Forever!!!>>>>>>>>>> Internet:scott@hsvaic.boeing.com|UUCP:...!uunet!uw-beaver!bcsaic!hsvaic!scott DISCLAIMER: All contained herein are my opinions, they do not|+1 205 461 2073 represent the opinions or feelings of Boeing or its management| BTN:461-2073
kblackne@mcs.drexel.edu (Ken Blackney) (04/25/91)
In article <17708@venera.isi.edu> jas@ISI.EDU (Jeff Sullivan) writes: > >FYI, I've seen Win3 for as low as $50... > The list price for Windows 3.0 is $149. Most store sell it for $99. I have never seen it for less than $75. However, old versions (2.x) sold for $50 just before the release of Windows 3.0. Ken
pascal@CAM.ORG (Pascal Gosselin) (05/02/91)
scott@hsvaic.boeing.com (Scott Hinckley) writes: >>In article <1991Apr23.041147.5758@CAM.ORG>, pascal@CAM.ORG (Pascal Gosselin) writes: >>|> Apple will be charging (I can't reveil the amount 'cuz of non-disclosure, >>|> but I was told that I could say to customers that there will be a fee >>|> involved) for System 7.0 . >>|>Lets just say you could buy yourself a copy >>|> of Windows 3.0 for a lot less. >You must be thinking about the CD ROM version ($300, includes 2 manual >sets and 180 days of support). >The 14 disk set ($99 includes 1 manual and 90 days support) >-- ><<<<<<<<<<<Scott Hinckley<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>VW&Apple][Forever!!!>>>>>>>>>> >Internet:scott@hsvaic.boeing.com|UUCP:...!uunet!uw-beaver!bcsaic!hsvaic!scott >DISCLAIMER: All contained herein are my opinions, they do not|+1 205 461 2073 >represent the opinions or feelings of Boeing or its management| BTN:461-2073 NO. In Canada, any dealer/Var that copies System 7.0 will be violating its agreement with Apple Canada (the Dealer or VAR authorization agreement). Basically, users in Canada will NOT be given a choice, they will HAVE to pay to get System 7.0 legally and will automatically recieve the docs and the support associated with the package. Only people who purchase the higher-priced site license package will be able make "legal" copies. I am NOT trying to hype anything, but any Canadian user who thinks he can just drop by a dealer on May 13th and get a copy will be seriously dissapointed when he learns that the rules of the game have TOTALLY changed in Canada. This information comes directly from the System 7.0 and AU/X product managerin Canada. He has recommended pricing far in excess of the $50 for documentation that Apple USA will be (supposedly) offering. -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Pascal Gosselin | Internet: P.Gosselin@CAM.ORG Applelink: CDA0585 | | Gest-Mac Inc. Apple VAR | Voice (514) 767-4444 Fax (514) 767-7337 | +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto) (05/02/91)
In article <1991May2.055055.19376@CAM.ORG> pascal@CAM.ORG (Pascal Gosselin) writes: >NO. In Canada, any dealer/Var that copies System 7.0 will be violating >its agreement with Apple Canada (the Dealer or VAR authorization agreement). ... >I am NOT trying to hype anything, but any Canadian user who thinks he can >just drop by a dealer on May 13th and get a copy will be seriously >dissapointed when he learns that the rules of the game have TOTALLY >changed in Canada. > >This information comes directly from the System 7.0 and AU/X product >managerin Canada. He has recommended pricing far in excess of the $50 >for documentation that Apple USA will be (supposedly) offering. Headline on May 13: HUGE TRAFFIC JAM ALONG CANADA/US BORDER. APPLE COMPUTER SUSPECTED CAUSE. -- Matthew T. Russotto russotto@eng.umd.edu russotto@wam.umd.edu .sig under construction, like the rest of this campus.
oleary@ux.acs.umn.edu (Doc O'Leary) (05/02/91)
In article <1991May2.055055.19376@CAM.ORG> pascal@CAM.ORG (Pascal Gosselin) writes, among other things: >Basically, users in Canada will NOT be given a choice, they will HAVE to >pay to get System 7.0 legally and will automatically recieve the docs and >the support associated with the package. >I am NOT trying to hype anything, but any Canadian user who thinks he can >just drop by a dealer on May 13th and get a copy will be seriously >dissapointed when he learns that the rules of the game have TOTALLY >changed in Canada. I have no idea whether this is true or not, but if it is, the implication is that System 7 will NOT be available for anonymous ftp ANYWHERE. --------- Doc ********************** Signature Block : Version 2.5 ********************* * | OK, one last time . . . This is * * "Was it love, or was it the idea | an egg . . . This is an egg in a * * of being in love?" -- PF | frying pan . . . Any questions? * * (BTW, which one *is* Pink?) | * * | --->oleary@ux.acs.umn.edu<--- * ****************** Copyright (c) 1991 by Doc O'Leary ********************
edgar@function.mps.ohio-state.edu (Gerald Edgar) (05/03/91)
>Headline on May 13: >HUGE TRAFFIC JAM ALONG CANADA/US BORDER. APPLE COMPUTER SUSPECTED CAUSE. Do you know what the duty is on computer software to be brought into Canada? They're training the dogs now to sniff out floppies hidden in the car... -- Gerald A. Edgar Internet: edgar@mps.ohio-state.edu Department of Mathematics Bitnet: EDGAR@OHSTPY The Ohio State University telephone: 614-292-0395 (Office) Columbus, OH 43210 -292-4975 (Math. Dept.) -292-1479 (Dept. Fax)
billing@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Wayne Billing) (05/06/91)
In <1991May2.182914.2083@zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu> edgar@function.mps.ohio-state.edu (Gerald Edgar) writes: >>Headline on May 13: >>HUGE TRAFFIC JAM ALONG CANADA/US BORDER. APPLE COMPUTER SUSPECTED CAUSE. >Do you know what the duty is on computer software to be brought into Canada? >They're training the dogs now to sniff out floppies hidden in the car... >-- > Gerald A. Edgar Internet: edgar@mps.ohio-state.edu > Department of Mathematics Bitnet: EDGAR@OHSTPY > The Ohio State University telephone: 614-292-0395 (Office) "Free" Trade has reduced the border penalty significantly. Wayne Billing billing@ccm.UManitoba.CA > Columbus, OH 43210 -292-4975 (Math. Dept.) -292-1479 (Dept. Fax)