breidenb@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Oliver Breidenbach) (05/02/91)
hi,
yesterday I discovered a very interessting thing. I have an alias for resedit in
the 7.0 apple menu items folder. I accidentally dragged some file over it just
like you drag something over the trash. The resedit icon went highlited. "Oh"
i thought, "a neat feature, what happens if I 'drop' things into it?"
Guess what, Resedit opened with the given file.
I now wonder if that is a thing available to all applications, or if it is a
special resedit feature. And second, will that enable programmers to establish
things on the desktop that work like the trashcan? (e.g. for mail out boxes?)
just wondering.
Oliver.
---
Oliver Breidenbach, CSD, Technische Universitaet, Muenchen
E-Mail: Oliver.Breidenbach@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.defolta@tove.cs.umd.edu (Wayne Folta) (05/02/91)
>I thought, "a neat feature, what happens if I 'drop' things into it?" >Guess what, Resedit opened with the given file. >I now wonder if that is a thing available to all applications, or if it is a >special resedit feature. And second, will that enable programmers to establish >things on the desktop that work like the trashcan? (e.g. for mail out boxes?) I have seen others describe this feature. It sounds like it is equivalent to shift-selecting the document and the application, then double-clicking the application. This invokes the application on the selected document(s) in System 6. Even if this is a shortcut for an already-existent feature, it certainly changes the user's perspective on what is happening. From the user's viewpoint, the program could do trashcan-like things: you could certainly write a progam that, if it is invoked on a file moves the file to some hidden directory and if it is invoked with no file displays the hidden directory -- a trashcan-like equivalent. If System 7.0 allows you to hide or remove the trashcan from the desktop, you could write a trashcan-work-alike that examines the files you drop on it and files them in different directories, depending on their color. Then an INIT could trash these directories on differing schedules: the green- file folder every night, the orange-file folder weekly, and the red-file folder never. Wayne -- Wayne Folta (folta@cs.umd.edu 128.8.128.8)
howie@ssc-vax.UUCP (Howard S Modell) (05/02/91)
In article <1991May2.115300.2662@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE>, breidenb@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Oliver Breidenbach) writes: > yesterday I discovered a very interessting thing. I have an alias for resedit in > the 7.0 apple menu items folder. I accidentally dragged some file over it just > like you drag something over the trash. The resedit icon went highlited. "Oh" > i thought, "a neat feature, what happens if I 'drop' things into it?" > Guess what, Resedit opened with the given file. According to the Overview of System 7.0 in the June issue of MacUser (I just got mine yesterday), this is a general feature of Finder 7.0. BTW, the Overview I cite is a nice one, at least from the perspective of someone like myself who hasn't had the privilege of playing with the 7.0 Beta copies.
nerm@Apple.COM (Dean Yu) (05/03/91)
In article <1991May2.115300.2662@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE> breidenb@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Oliver Breidenbach) writes: > >hi, > >yesterday I discovered a very interessting thing. I have an alias for resedit in >the 7.0 apple menu items folder. I accidentally dragged some file over it just >like you drag something over the trash. The resedit icon went highlited. "Oh" >i thought, "a neat feature, what happens if I 'drop' things into it?" >Guess what, Resedit opened with the given file. >I now wonder if that is a thing available to all applications, or if it is a >special resedit feature. And second, will that enable programmers to establish >things on the desktop that work like the trashcan? (e.g. for mail out boxes?) > This drop capability is a feature that an application can take advantage of. Any type that is specified by an application's 'FREF' resource can be dropped onto the application, and it will open with that document. There are special wildcard symbols to specify that an application can open any file, folder, or volume. (ResEdit uses the any file wildcard.) In answer to your second question, not really. This feature basically simulates selecting Open from the File menu. -- Dean Yu Blue Meanie, Negative Ethnic Role Model, etc. Apple Computer, Inc. My opinions and so on and so forth...
dweisman@umiami.ir.miami.edu (Ordinary Man) (05/03/91)
In article <33872@mimsy.umd.edu>, folta@tove.cs.umd.edu (Wayne Folta) writes: > If System 7.0 allows you to hide or remove the trashcan from the desktop, > you could write a trashcan-work-alike that examines the files you drop > on it and files them in different directories, depending on their color. > Then an INIT could trash these directories on differing schedules: the green- > file folder every night, the orange-file folder weekly, and the red-file > folder never. I see a couple of possible problems with this though. 1) Hey, what about us guys without color macs? :) (I know it's just an example) 2) If you drag a file onto an application (which this trash substitute would have to be), it will launch and be slow EVERY time you put something into it. In fact, what if it was already launched? Do you have to quit each time? Don't expect a program to act like the trash which is just another directory in System 7. Interesting idea, though. Maybe has some future possibilities when programmers learn more about documented System 7 features. > Wayne Dan -- /-------------------------------------------------------------------------\ | Dan Weisman - University of Miami - Florida | || || || || | |--------------------------------------------------| || || ||\ /|| | | INTERNET -----> dweisman@umiami.IR.Miami.edu | || || || | || | | BITNET -----> dweisman@umiami | ||||||| || | || | |-------------------------------------------------------------------------| | "The more I get to see, the less I understand..." - Triumph | \_________________________________________________________________________/
sho@gibbs.physics.purdue.edu (Sho Kuwamoto) (05/03/91)
In article <52324@apple.Apple.COM> nerm@Apple.COM (Dean Yu) writes: >In article <1991May2.115300.2662@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE> breidenb@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Oliver Breidenbach) writes: >>[can we put other things on the desktop to drop files into, e.g., >> a mail box] > In answer to your second question, not really. [The dropping files >onto applications] feature basically simulates selecting Open from >the File menu. Creating new active objects on the desktop is a feature I'd really be interested in. For example I want to be able to drop a document into a printer icon and have it come out the right printer. Much easier than using the Chooser to pick the printer. If I've heard correctly, it was done on the old Xerox systems... However, with regard to the mailbox question, it seems that a system 7.0 friendly mail program could, when opening a file, pop up a (movable) modal dialog to ask the user whether to send the file and to whom to send the file. This way, you could take a file and drop it into the mailbox icon, type in the address and hit the ok button. Isn't this the behavior you want? -Sho -- sho@physics.purdue.edu
unierik@uts.uni-c.dk (Erik Bertelsen) (05/03/91)
Yes, the idea is that you can drop any file on any application, and the application should start and open the file. For this to happen, the application should have its BNDL/FREF resources describe the file's type to tell Finder that the operation is possible. An example: You can drop any TEXT file on any application containg the proper BNDL/FREF resources for file type TEXT. And yes, the application can send the file as a mail message if it chooses to do so (and even remove and/or archive the original file some other place. Regards Erik Bertelsen UNI-C, The danish Computing Centre for Research and Education.
folta@tove.cs.umd.edu (Wayne Folta) (05/03/91)
>> If System 7.0 allows you to hide or remove the trashcan from the desktop, >> you could write a trashcan-work-alike that examines the files you drop >> on it and files them in different directories, depending on their color. >> Then an INIT could trash these directories on differing schedules: the green- >> file folder every night, the orange-file folder weekly, and the red-file >> folder never. > >I see a couple of possible problems with this though. > >1) Hey, what about us guys without color macs? :) (I know it's just an example) >2) If you drag a file onto an application (which this trash substitute would >have to be), it will launch and be slow EVERY time you put something into it. >In fact, what if it was already launched? Do you have to quit each time? I thought of this after posting my original. I think the solution is to make the program in question a "headless" (or "faceless"?) program like Backgrounder. That way, you'd be asking an already-running program to open the file. This is pretty fast for most programs I've used that handle this correctly. I guess an easier idea is to have a background program watching the trashcan folder, pulling items out that shouldn't be thrown away too hastily and moving them to a folder where they are flushed weekly. BTW, I have heard that Sys 7.0 allows you to paste any icon onto any file. Does anyone know if this is true? Even for folders? -- Wayne Folta (folta@cs.umd.edu 128.8.128.8)
dweisman@umiami.ir.miami.edu (Ordinary Man) (05/03/91)
In article <33918@mimsy.umd.edu>, folta@tove.cs.umd.edu (Wayne Folta) writes: > I guess an easier idea is to have a background program watching the trashcan > folder, pulling items out that shouldn't be thrown away too hastily and > moving them to a folder where they are flushed weekly. What I could also see it doing would be to delete a user-defined set of files on shutdown. Like the annoying ResEdit scrap file that stays in the trash for weeks after you've run ResEdit and haven't emptied the trash. An intelligent trash can? A Temprament replacement? Hmmmmm..... > BTW, I have heard that Sys 7.0 allows you to paste any icon onto any file. > Does anyone know if this is true? Even for folders? Yes, it sure is. When you do a "Get Info..." on anything in the finder, you can click it's icon and copy it. Or you can paste another icon from a different program in, or a PICT from the clipboard, scaled to fit. It's neat, but I personally haven't used it. I believe it works for any icon displayed in the finder: folders, files, and even volumes, except the trash. Dan -- /-------------------------------------------------------------------------\ | Dan Weisman - University of Miami - Florida | || || || || | |--------------------------------------------------| || || ||\ /|| | | INTERNET -----> dweisman@umiami.IR.Miami.edu | || || || | || | | BITNET -----> dweisman@umiami | ||||||| || | || | |-------------------------------------------------------------------------| | "The more I get to see, the less I understand..." - Triumph | \_________________________________________________________________________/
pejacoby@mmm.serc.3m.com (Paul E. Jacoby) (05/03/91)
In article <33918@mimsy.umd.edu> folta@tove.cs.umd.edu (Wayne Folta) writes: > >BTW, I have heard that Sys 7.0 allows you to paste any icon onto any file. >Does anyone know if this is true? Even for folders? You bet; it works via the Get Info command. Open the Get Info window for any application, folder, or hard disk. Click on the icon. Choose PASTE to put your new icon in it's place. VERY nice for folders; good visual identification for when you don't want to read ALL the names of the 87 folders in your 'Development' folder :-) -- | Paul E. Jacoby, 3M Company | | | Maplewood, MN 55144-1000 | Parachuting? Why jump out of a | | => pejacoby@3m.com | perfectly good airplane? | | (612) 737-3211 | |
lsr@Apple.com (Larry Rosenstein) (05/03/91)
In article <1991May2.151148.9565@umiami.ir.miami.edu>, dweisman@umiami.ir.miami.edu (Ordinary Man) writes: > > 1) Hey, what about us guys without color macs? :) (I know it's just an example) What used to be Colors is now Labels, and is available on all machines. The list views can show the label attached to each item. > 2) If you drag a file onto an application (which this trash substitute would > have to be), it will launch and be slow EVERY time you put something into it. > In fact, what if it was already launched? Do you have to quit each time? It would have to launch it the first time, but it can stay running. I don't think the program could be a faceless app, because then it couldn't receive the events telling it what files to work on.
dawg6844@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Dan Walkowski) (05/04/91)
folta@tove.cs.umd.edu (Wayne Folta) writes: >BTW, I have heard that Sys 7.0 allows you to paste any icon onto any file. >Does anyone know if this is true? Even for folders? >-- Yes, in fact you can paste PICT's from the clipboard and they will be scaled. -- _______________________________________________________________________________ Dan Walkowski | To understand recursion, Univ. of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci. | you must first understand recursion. walkowsk@cs.uiuc.edu |
palmer@nntp-server.caltech.edu (David Palmer) (05/04/91)
pejacoby@mmm.serc.3m.com (Paul E. Jacoby) writes: >In article <33918@mimsy.umd.edu> folta@tove.cs.umd.edu (Wayne Folta) writes: >> >>BTW, I have heard that Sys 7.0 allows you to paste any icon onto any file. >>Does anyone know if this is true? Even for folders? >You bet; it works via the Get Info command. Open the Get Info window >for any application, folder, or hard disk. Click on the icon. Choose >PASTE to put your new icon in it's place. VERY nice for folders; good >visual identification for when you don't want to read ALL the names of >the 87 folders in your 'Development' folder :-) OK, here is a utility that will appear as soon as someone decides it is a good idea and codes it up: Something which goes through the disk, finds all graphics files (GIFs, macpaint, macdraw, etc.) and replaces their icons with thumbnail versions of their contents. You can then find graphics based on what they look like, instead of the file names. This is a shareware idea. If you do it, send me 10% of your profit :-). (Wow, that was a profitable 30 seconds of inspiration, if anyone actually does this.) -- David Palmer palmer@gap.cco.caltech.edu ...rutgers!cit-vax!gap.cco.caltech.edu!palmer "Operator, get me the number for 911" --Homer Simpson
jackb@MDI.COM (Jack Brindle) (05/04/91)
In article <13312@goofy.Apple.COM> lsr@Apple.com (Larry Rosenstein) writes: >It would have >to launch it the first time, but it can stay running. I don't think the >program could be a faceless app, because then it couldn't receive the >events telling it what files to work on. I hate to question Larry, but why would there be a restriction on faceless apps receiving an open AppleEvent? I can see that it could not use the "open" menu command mechanism, but I don't remember seeing a restriction against background/faceless apps receiving AppleEvents. The open command would, of course, be handled as an "Open" AppleEvent, assuming that the app had the proper bits set in its Vers resource to enable the reception of AppleEvents. For those wondering, Apple has extended the App4 user event mechanism to signal AppleEvents to applications, much the same as the way MultiFinder events are signaled. Or, am I missing something here? Jack Brindle ham radio: wa4fib/7
dawg6844@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Dan Walkowski) (05/04/91)
palmer@nntp-server.caltech.edu (David Palmer) writes: >Something which goes through the disk, finds all graphics files (GIFs, >macpaint, macdraw, etc.) and replaces their icons with thumbnail >versions of their contents. You can then find graphics based on >what they look like, instead of the file names. The only problem is that they get so distorted by being scrunched and converted to the finder palette that they are al,ost unrecognizeable. (I've done a few) dan -- _______________________________________________________________________________ Dan Walkowski | To understand recursion, Univ. of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci. | you must first understand recursion. walkowsk@cs.uiuc.edu |
cs483106@umbc5.umbc.edu (cs483106) (05/04/91)
Interestingly enough, the 'paste a new icon into the get info window' trick works when you've copied the icon out of res-edit(as in, out of the icon family editor). I've done this on more than one occasion now, so as to give some unique icons to some aliases. Does anyone know if this trick works with pasting a PICT into the get info window? "Pope" Q.E.D Michael Kohne mikek@isis.ngs.noaa.gov
umh@vax5.cit.cornell.edu (05/05/91)
In article <UNIERIK.91May2202150@uts.uni-c.dk>, unierik@uts.uni-c.dk (Erik Bertelsen) writes: > Yes, the idea is that you can drop any file on any application, and the > application should start and open the file. > This idea of dropping document icons on program icons began, I believe, in MS Windows. Has Apple paid MS some license fee for using it? Would Apple care to comment on the ethics of stealing user-interface from MS while suing MS for doing the same to Apple? Maynard Handley
Greg@AppleLink.Apple.Com (Greg Marriott) (05/05/91)
In article <1991May4.150955.24020@umbc3.umbc.edu>, cs483106@umbc5.umbc.edu (cs483106) writes: > ...the 'paste a new icon into the get info window' trick works... > Does anyone know if this trick works > with pasting a PICT into the get info window? This will work fine. The picture will be scaled to create 32 by 32 large icons and 16 by 16 small icons. The entire icon family will be created (i.e. icl8, icl4, ICN#, ics8, ics4, ics#). You may need to use ResEdit to "touch up" the images if the PICT is squished too much... Greg Marriott Blue Meanie Apple Computer, Inc.
oleary@ux.acs.umn.edu (Doc O'Leary) (05/05/91)
In article <1991May4.171453.4489@vax5.cit.cornell.edu> umh@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes: >In article <UNIERIK.91May2202150@uts.uni-c.dk>, >unierik@uts.uni-c.dk (Erik Bertelsen) writes: >> Yes, the idea is that you can drop any file on any application, and the >> application should start and open the file. >> >This idea of dropping document icons on program icons began, I believe, in >MS Windows. Has Apple paid MS some license fee for using it? Would Apple care >to comment on the ethics of stealing user-interface from MS while suing MS for >doing the same to Apple? > >Maynard Handley Take your flame wars somewhere else, Mr. Handley. Ideas don't originate in software packages, they come from people. Even if Windows was the first to IMPLEMENT the idea doesn't mean they have exclusive rights to its use (Xerox vs. Apple). It may very well be that the idea came from within Apple during System 7 development. Another item to add to list in the Apple vs. Microsoft lawsuit perhaps (which, I believe, has been expanded to cover Windows 3.0). We shall see. --------- Doc ********************** Signature Block : Version 2.5 ********************* * | OK, one last time . . . This is * * "Was it love, or was it the idea | an egg . . . This is an egg in a * * of being in love?" -- PF | frying pan . . . Any questions? * * (BTW, which one *is* Pink?) | * * | --->oleary@ux.acs.umn.edu<--- * ****************** Copyright (c) 1991 by Doc O'Leary ********************
d88-jwa@alv.nada.kth.se (Jon W{tte) (05/05/91)
In article <3862@ux.acs.umn.edu> oleary@ux.acs.umn.edu (Doc O'Leary) writes: >This idea of dropping document icons on program icons began, I believe, in >MS Windows. Has Apple paid MS some license fee for using it? >Maynard Handley Take your flame wars somewhere else, Mr. Handley. Exactly ! Ideas don't originate in software packages, they come from people. Even if Windows was the first to IMPLEMENT the idea doesn't mean they have exclusive It wasn't. As so much else, it originated with Xerox. (Though they had a printer icon where you could drop documents to print them - that was planned for 7.0 but I believe Apple changed its mind. Wouldn't want to steal TOO much, huh ?) For me they can steal interface how much they want, though they ought to scrap their i/f lawsuit. -- Jon W{tte h+@nada.kth.se - Power !
lsr@Apple.com (Larry Rosenstein) (05/07/91)
In article <1991May3.230835.17470@MDI.COM>, jackb@MDI.COM (Jack Brindle) writes: > > I hate to question Larry, but why would there be a restriction on faceless > apps receiving an open AppleEvent? I can see that it could not use the > "open" menu command mechanism, but I don't remember seeing a restriction > against background/faceless apps receiving AppleEvents. The open command Actually now that I think of it, you're right. A faceless app doesn't have menus, but I think people have written faceless apps that can send & receive Apple events. I was confusing faceless apps with things like INITs, which don't have event loops, which is a requirement for using Apple events.
amanda@visix.com (Amanda Walker) (05/07/91)
umh@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes:
This idea of dropping document icons on program icons began, I believe, in
MS Windows.
Nope. This one dates back to the Xerox Star.
--
Amanda Walker amanda@visix.com
Visix Software Inc. ...!uunet!visix!amanda
--
"Now, telephone companies are not stupid, at least for large values of
'stupid'." --Mr. Protocol (Michael O'Brien)jtn@potomac.ads.com (John T. Nelson) (05/08/91)
>Creating new active objects on the desktop is a feature I'd really be >interested in. For example I want to be able to drop a document into >a printer icon and have it come out the right printer. Much easier >than using the Chooser to pick the printer. If I've heard correctly, >it was done on the old Xerox systems... Yup, but as I remember you had to make a COPY of the document you dropped into the printer otherwise the printer would gobble the document up while printing it. Probably bit quite a few unsuspecting users.
sw@nan.co.uk (Sak Wathanasin) (05/09/91)
In article <1991May7.170534.14871@potomac.ads.com>, jtn@potomac.ads.com (John T. Nelson) writes: > >Creating new active objects on the desktop is a feature I'd really be > >interested in. For example I want to be able to drop a document into > >a printer icon and have it come out the right printer. Much easier > >than using the Chooser to pick the printer. If I've heard correctly, > >it was done on the old Xerox systems... > > Yup, but as I remember you had to make a COPY of the document you > dropped into the printer otherwise the printer would gobble the > document up while printing it. Probably bit quite a few unsuspecting > users. > You can't just drag an icon around in Viewpoint. You have to either "move" or "copy" first (select icon by clicking on it then hit either the "move" or "copy" function key). The metaphor was used for other things as well. For example, you could drop configuration icons into terminal emulators (to make them start up with a saved config) as well as the more obvious "drop things into the mail outbasket icon" to post them. Sak Wathanasin Network Analysis Limited uucp: ...!ukc!nan!sw other: sw@network-analysis-ltd.co.uk phone: (+44) 203 419996 snail: 178 Wainbody Ave South, Coventry CV3 6BX, UK
francis@daisy.uchicago.edu (Francis Stracke) (05/09/91)
In article <0101000D.0vxryg@nan.co.uk> sw@nan.co.uk (Sak Wathanasin) writes: In article <1991May7.170534.14871@potomac.ads.com>, jtn@potomac.ads.com (John T. Nelson) writes: > >Creating new active objects on the desktop is a feature I'd really be > >interested in. For example I want to be able to drop a document into > >a printer icon and have it come out the right printer. Much easier > >than using the Chooser to pick the printer. If I've heard correctly, I thought this was being done. No? Y'know, you could do this for other things, too. Take a file, drag it to the mailbox icon (which represents a fake printer driver--assuming, as I say, this is currently OK), and it gets "printed"--actually, of course, the message gets sent. Reading would be harder... Perhaps a fake disk drive? -- /============================================================================\ | Francis Stracke | My opinions are my own. I don't steal them.| | Department of Mathematics |=============================================| | University of Chicago | What do you get if you multiply 6 by 9? | | francis@zaphod.uchicago.edu | --Ultimate Question | \============================================================================/