pnm@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au (Paul BIG-EARS Menon) (05/17/91)
Dear Lucky 7s,
Why can't I use a SyQuest cartridge on my Mac in VM mode?
I cannot create a swap file on these. The "drive" popUp
doesn't have the SyQuest volumes in its list (yes, it's
mounted!!). Is it something to do with the driver?
Fragmentation? I erased the disk before I stuck System 7 onto
it & sent it through Disk First Aid. The only ones I've been
able to have success with are the standard Apple hard drives.
Klues Appretiated...
Thanx,
Paul Menon,
Dept of Computer Science,
Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology,
124 Latrobe Street,
Melbourne 3001,
Victoria, Australia.
pnm@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au
PH: +61 3 660 3209
(PS - Please mail a response too, it's bedlam in this group right
now - I'll probably miss it).rob@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Robert K Shull) (05/18/91)
In article <5786@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au> pnm@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au (Paul BIG-EARS Menon) writes: > Why can't I use a SyQuest cartridge on my Mac in VM mode? > I cannot create a swap file on these. The "drive" popUp I would guess (emphasize guess) that it's because the Syquest is marked as an ejectable volume. Seems that removing the disk while the system is paging to/from it would be a Bad Thing, so it may not let you try. Robert -- Robert K. Shull rob@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu chinet!uokmax!rob
burchil@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Charles Andrew Burchill) (05/18/91)
In <5786@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au> pnm@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au (Paul BIG-EARS Menon) writes: >Dear Lucky 7s, > Why can't I use a SyQuest cartridge on my Mac in VM mode? > I cannot create a swap file on these. The "drive" popUp > doesn't have the SyQuest volumes in its list (yes, it's > mounted!!). Is it something to do with the driver? > Fragmentation? I erased the disk before I stuck System 7 onto > it & sent it through Disk First Aid. The only ones I've been > able to have success with are the standard Apple hard drives. > Klues Appretiated... > Thanx, > Paul Menon, > Dept of Computer Science, > Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology, > 124 Latrobe Street, > Melbourne 3001, > Victoria, Australia. >pnm@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au >PH: +61 3 660 3209 >(PS - Please mail a response too, it's bedlam in this group right You can not put VM on any removable media. The reasion is simple - What would happen if you ejected the cartride?, its kind of like pulling SIMMS out of a running machine. Charles Burchill burchil@ccu.umanitoba.ca >now - I'll probably miss it).
rubinoff@linc.cis.upenn.edu (Robert Rubinoff) (05/18/91)
In article <1991May17.194226.27421@ccu.umanitoba.ca> burchil@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Charles Andrew Burchill) writes: >You can not put VM on any removable media. The reasion is simple - >What would happen if you ejected the cartride?, its kind of like >pulling SIMMS out of a running machine. No, this is kind of like saying that you can't boot a machine with SIMMs in it, because somebody might pull one of the SIMMs out while it was running. Obviously, if you eject a cartridge that has paging files on it, the system is going to crash. But that's no reason not to allow VM on removable media! The system should just give a warning when the paging files are set up. Ideally, an attempt to eject the cartridge should be blocked with an alert. But this would require (I presume) modifying the driver. In the meantime, I don't see what the problem is. This seems like unnecessarily protecting people from themselves. Robert
tecot@momenta.com (Ed Tecot) (05/18/91)
pnm@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au (Paul BIG-EARS Menon) writes: >Dear Lucky 7s, > Why can't I use a SyQuest cartridge on my Mac in VM mode? > I cannot create a swap file on these. The "drive" popUp > doesn't have the SyQuest volumes in its list (yes, it's > mounted!!). Is it something to do with the driver? > Fragmentation? I erased the disk before I stuck System 7 onto > it & sent it through Disk First Aid. The only ones I've been > able to have success with are the standard Apple hard drives. > Klues Appretiated... I'd suspect that the driver is not VM compatible, which requires a certain level of reentrancy. You'll probably need a software upgrade from SyQuest. _emt
bc@Apple.COM (bill coderre) (05/18/91)
rubinoff@linc.cis.upenn.edu (Robert Rubinoff) writes: |In article <1991May17.194226.27421@ccu.umanitoba.ca> burchil@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Charles Andrew Burchill) writes: |>You can not put VM on any removable media. The reasion is simple - |>What would happen if you ejected the cartride?, its kind of like |>pulling SIMMS out of a running machine. |No, this is kind of like saying that you can't boot a machine with SIMMs in it, |because somebody might pull one of the SIMMs out while it was running. | |Obviously, if you eject a cartridge that has paging files on it, the system is |going to crash. But that's no reason not to allow VM on removable media! The |system should just give a warning when the paging files are set up. | |Ideally, an attempt to eject the cartridge should be blocked with an alert. |But this would require (I presume) modifying the driver. In the meantime, I |don't see what the problem is. This seems like unnecessarily protecting people |from themselves. Let's get something clear: because of the way Multifinder works, if any paging files are ejected, the Mac would crash within 1 second. And, there's only one disk driver interface for floppies, hard drives, and removable hard drives. Also recall that you set up paging BEFORE you use it, then reboot to start using it. It therefore would be incredibly hard to allow paging files to go onto removable drives without causing really serious crashes. But why don't you request it as an enhancement for the next version? I'm sure that if enough people do, Apple might do it. bill coderre hoping to set the facts straight.
pejacoby@mmm.serc.3m.com (Paul E. Jacoby) (05/20/91)
In article <53049@apple.Apple.COM> bc@Apple.COM (bill coderre) writes: >rubinoff@linc.cis.upenn.edu (Robert Rubinoff) writes: >[why can't I put VM swap files on a Syquest removable?] >Let's get something clear: because of the way Multifinder works, if >any paging files are ejected, the Mac would crash within 1 second. >And, there's only one disk driver interface for floppies, hard drives, >and removable hard drives. Also recall that you set up paging BEFORE >you use it, then reboot to start using it. >[...] >But why don't you request it as an enhancement for the next version? >I'm sure that if enough people do, Apple might do it. Bill (or is it 'bill'? :-), Didn't someone in DTS write an INIT that would hack 7.0b4 to allow removables to be used as swap space? Not having a removable, I can't try it out, but I wonder if it would still work under the release 7.0? Anyone? -- | Paul E. Jacoby, 3M Company | | | Maplewood, MN 55144-1000 | Parachuting? Why jump out of a | | => pejacoby@3m.com | perfectly good airplane? | | (612) 737-3211 | |
price@uclapp.physics.ucla.edu (John Price) (05/21/91)
In article <53049@apple.Apple.COM> bc@Apple.COM (bill coderre) writes: [...about VM on a removable...] >But why don't you request it as an enhancement for the next version? >I'm sure that if enough people do, Apple might do it. OK, time for a dumb question. I assume that posting here isn't the right way to make such a request. Who, then, do we write to? John Price * * * * price@uclapp.physics.ucla.edu Where there is no solution, there is no problem.
tony@tui.marcam.dsir.govt.nz (Tony Cooper) (05/21/91)
|> |>You can not put VM on any removable media. The reasion is simple - |> |>What would happen if you ejected the cartride?, its kind of like |> |>pulling SIMMS out of a running machine. Here is a way to do it that I have not troed under System 7.0. I have tried it under 6.0.x. Patch Apple's HD SC Setup or anyone else's setup program so that it recognizes the Syquest as some non removable disk. Then away you go. One problem is that when you do this the disk will not be removable. Ie you will not eject the cartridge when you drag it to the trash. You probably won't even be able to remove it without switching off the drive. But you can't eat your cake and still have it (or something like that). I bet there is an easier way. Some way to tell the system that the drive is not removable even though it is. Maybe a bit in the partition map. Obviously the nonremovability stuff is done in software. Just patching it is all that is required. System 7 isn't so smart that it can't be deceived a bit. Tony Cooper sramtrc@albert.dsir.govt.nz