iijimam@prism.CS.ORST.EDU (Mutsumi Iijima) (05/14/91)
It is 10:00 PDT, May 13th. I walked into Oregon State University Book Store few minutes ago and asked about System 7.0. They said they hadn't gotten a copy of System 7.0, yet. According to them, The Computer Store (which is an authorized Apple dealer and is in town (Corvallis, OR) hadn't gotten it, yet. They also said they could get it Thursday night, but not from Apple, from Corvallis MUG. One more thing they said, "You will need 12 800K disks." What? 12 DD disks? How the system can grow that much? C'mon Apple, it's May 13th! We all want System 7.0. /----------------------------------------------------------------------------\ | Mutsumi Iijima | Anybody interested in Japan or/and | | Oregon State University | Japanese system of Macintosh? Feel free to | | INTERNET: | send a E-mail to the addresses left. I | | iijimam@prism.cs.orst.edu | will wait hering from you. :> | | CompuServe: 72210,554 | *******************************************| | America Online: Iijimam | *******************************************| \----------------------------------------------------------------------------/
oleary@ux.acs.umn.edu (Doc O'Leary) (05/14/91)
In article <1991May13.173422.25070@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> iijimam@prism.CS.ORST.EDU (Mutsumi Iijima) writes: >It is 10:00 PDT, May 13th. I walked into Oregon State University Book Store few >minutes ago and asked about System 7.0. They said they hadn't gotten a copy of >System 7.0, yet. According to them, The Computer Store (which is an authorized >Apple dealer and is in town (Corvallis, OR) hadn't gotten it, yet. They also >said they could get it Thursday night, but not from Apple, from Corvallis MUG. >One more thing they said, "You will need 12 800K disks." What? 12 DD disks? How >the system can grow that much? > >C'mon Apple, it's May 13th! We all want System 7.0. I walked into our Microcomputer Center at 10:00 this morning, too, and they had just placed the disk images on the file server. Unfortunately, they were FDHD images and I had only brought 800K disks :-(. I guess I just have to live with the beta for one more day . . . --------- Doc PS: Lay off Apple on this one. System 7 is free (remember the whines about how much it would cost?) even if you can't get it on day one. If you want to complain, there's the whole issue of 32-bit ROMs that we can chew them out for. ********************** Signature Block : Version 2.5 ********************* * | OK, one last time . . . This is * * "Was it love, or was it the idea | an egg . . . This is an egg in a * * of being in love?" -- PF | frying pan . . . Any questions? * * (BTW, which one *is* Pink?) | * * | --->oleary@ux.acs.umn.edu<--- * ****************** Copyright (c) 1991 by Doc O'Leary ********************
torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie) (05/14/91)
iijimam@prism.CS.ORST.EDU (Mutsumi Iijima) writes: >It is 10:00 PDT, May 13th. I walked into Oregon State University Book Store few >minutes ago and asked about System 7.0. They said they hadn't gotten a copy of >System 7.0, yet. According to them, The Computer Store (which is an authorized Speaking of System 7, is ftp.apple.com down? Or is it just being besieged by 10000 lusting-for-System-7 ftpers? I ftped a lot of the System 7 source code from here up until 1 a.m. last night, but when I try to ftp there this morning, I repeatedly get "Connection timed out". -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Evan Torrie. Stanford University, Class of 199? torrie@cs.stanford.edu "If it weren't for your gumboots, where would you be? You'd be in the hospital, or in-firm-ary..." F. Dagg
bc@Apple.COM (bill coderre) (05/14/91)
| Speaking of System 7, is ftp.apple.com down? Or is it just being |besieged by 10000 lusting-for-System-7 ftpers? | I ftped a lot of the System 7 source code from here up until 1 a.m. |last night, but when I try to ftp there this morning, I repeatedly get |"Connection timed out". Geez, I knew they were gonna be pleasant about distribution, but *Source code*? Boy, I'd better check this out.,... According to someone else, apple.apple.com was getting 5-10 FTP's a *MINUTE* looking for the elusive 7.0. (Note: it ain't there, see ftp.apple.com instead. Several of us use apple.apple.com for "work purposes" so please don't pig our machine too much, OK?) bill coderre NOT part of the Sytem 7 team, but pretty damn proud anyway
bc@Apple.COM (bill coderre) (05/14/91)
iijimam@prism.CS.ORST.EDU (Mutsumi Iijima) writes: |It is 10:00 PDT, May 13th. I walked into Oregon State University Book Store few |minutes ago and asked about System 7.0. They said they hadn't gotten a copy of |System 7.0, yet. According to them, The Computer Store (which is an authorized |Apple dealer and is in town (Corvallis, OR) hadn't gotten it, yet. They also |said they could get it Thursday night, but not from Apple, from Corvallis MUG. |One more thing they said, "You will need 12 800K disks." What? 12 DD disks? How |the system can grow that much? | |C'mon Apple, it's May 13th! We all want System 7.0. This is just the attitude I've grown to trust and recognize from the Usenet. System 7.0 "officially" shipped at 1100 AM, worldwide developers' conference time. The fact is that MANY places around the country had their copies AT THAT TIME. Copies should be everywhere in a week or so. Tell you what. If you get my boss to OK it, I'll hop in my 1963 Corvair Monza Convertible and DRIVE OVER to your house and install 7.0. I should be there in about four to six days, depending on whether the brakes hold up. As for 12 disks: 7 for the software, 1 for the disk tools (bootable), 2 for Hypercard 2.1, and 2 for the compatibility checker/"preview" stacks. Inside Mac VI is also out, and clocks in at OVER TEN POUNDS net weight. I believe it's a little thicker than my hardbound "special edition" of IM I-III, although I haven't tested. bill coderre System 7 is more reliable than your car -- not mine, though
rang@cs.wisc.edu (Anton Rang) (05/15/91)
In article <3914@ux.acs.umn.edu> oleary@ux.acs.umn.edu (Doc O'Leary) writes: >In article <1991May13.173422.25070@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> iijimam@prism.CS.ORST.EDU (Mutsumi Iijima) writes: >>It is 10:00 PDT, May 13th. [ And 7.0 wasn't at his local dealer yet. ] > >I walked into our Microcomputer Center at 10:00 this morning, too, and they >had just placed the disk images on the file server. [ ... ] > >PS: Lay off Apple on this one. System 7 is free (remember the whines about >how much it would cost?) even if you can't get it on day one. Yeah, I think Apple's doing a pretty good job with this, though some of their dealers could be doing better. The local dealers I've called in town here have said "We can sell you the upgrade package by the end of the week, but it's not our policy to let people copy disks on our equipment," which is pretty reasonable. I'm somewhat more upset by our university micro lab which (a) is not going to let us copy system 7 to our own disks and (b) is not going to be selling disks which they've pre-copied for at least two weeks. Time to take a weekend off and go visit my friendly dealer at home. :) I can wait for a few days, though I'm glad that Apple did put the compatibility checker stack on ftp.apple.com Sunday night so that I could get a head start at trying to get upgrades for my software (not that most of the companies I called had anyone who seemed to know what was going on...). Anton +---------------------------+------------------+-------------+----------------+ | Anton Rang (grad student) | rang@cs.wisc.edu | UW--Madison | "VMS Forever!" | +---------------------------+------------------+-------------+----------------+
ghe@physics.orst.edu (Guangliang He) (05/15/91)
In article <52858@apple.Apple.COM>, bc@Apple.COM (bill coderre) writes: |> As for 12 disks: 7 for the software, 1 for the disk tools (bootable), |> 2 for Hypercard 2.1, and 2 for the compatibility checker/"preview" |> stacks. |> So, is Hypercard 2.1 freely distributable or only system 7.0? --- Guangliang He | -----Go Blazers!----- ghe@physics.orst.edu | -----Go Blazers!-----
gaynor@agvax2.ag.ohio-state.edu (05/15/91)
In article <52858@apple.Apple.COM>, bc@Apple.COM (bill coderre) writes: >iijimam@prism.CS.ORST.EDU (Mutsumi Iijima) writes: >| >|C'mon Apple, it's May 13th! We all want System 7.0. > >This is just the attitude I've grown to trust and recognize from the >Usenet. Cut him a break, Bill. Remember, until just recently, Apple was known for having -lots- of an announced product out and available the day it was announced. But now, with the orientation being on getting products out to market quickly, Apple often hasn't had a product out in -quantity- on the day of its announcement (Display Card 8.24 GC anyone? Macintosh Classic? <grin>). But that hasn't sunk in, and quanitity availibility is still the expectation. Add those expectations to the amount of anticipation that Mac users have gone through for the last two years waiting for 7.0, and the taunts they've endured at the hands of their Windows-using adversaries, and a lot of us Usenet folk begin acting like whiny kids. Now, myself, I'm quite proud that I've managed to maintain a level of maturity and professionalism while waiting for 7.0 to show up at OSU's Computer Store, although they had it at a local retail chain YESTERDAY! I want my copy of System 7.0 RIGHT NOW, DAMMIT! I DON'T CARE IF MARK JOHNSON HAS TO STAY LATE AND NOT SLEEP AT ALL! I WANT 7.0 NOW, DAMMIT!!! NOW! NOW! NOW! NOW! GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME gimme... gimme... uh... ahem. <cough> 'scuse me. [ This post has been smileyed for the humor-impaired. :) :) :) :) :) ] Latebreaking news flash. While I was writing this post, the OSU Computer Store called. My copy of System 7.0 is in! --- Jim Gaynor - AgVAX System Manager - Academic Computing - Ohio State University VMS:<gaynor@agvax2.ag.ohio-state.edu> UNIX:<gaynor@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Disclaimer : All opinions expressed here are mine and only mine. So there! Witty Quote: "Think, think, think, think..." - Winnie-the-Pooh, Taoist Bear.
jess@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Jess M Holle) (05/15/91)
In article <RANG.91May14144441@nexus.cs.wisc.edu> rang@cs.wisc.edu (Anton Rang) writes: > Yeah, I think Apple's doing a pretty good job with this, though some >of their dealers could be doing better. The local dealers I've called Speaking of dealers who could be doing better: The local Computerland here could be doing much better. It took three people to figure out what their policy on System 7 was (the first didn't even know what it was, though I explained that it was Macintosh System 7.0). Then I was told that Apple's official policy was that the software could not be distributed for free and that it could only be purchased with the manuals. Fortunately, I had already read the official policy several times here (ie. the dealers are allowed to charge for disk copying and are given a list price for System 7.0 with documentation). I didn't take the time to argue with them, but rather decided to wait until I could get System 7.0 for free. Unfortunately, Computerland is the only Apple dealer in town. Anyone in the West Lafayette, Indiana, area knows of the pathetic dealership that Computerland runs. They have at most one Macintosh in their whole store, so they can't be selling many (often times they don't have any Macs on display and when they do it's an SE or Classic). The poor quality of their repair service has convinced me to get my computer repaired in Indy (an hour and a half away). The store seems to only care about PC's, which they have about 10 of on display. All their employees only seem to know about PC's as well. This type of a dealership is inexcusable when you consider that with a year round population base of over 60,000 in the area PLUS over 35,000 college students and an installed base of over 1000 Macs in campus labs a Mac dealership should be thriving here. Instead Computerland is so bad that Apple took away their educational distribution license and gave it to a dealership in Indy a couple months ago (yes, Computerland has been in this shape since long before then). Apple, if you're listening, if there is some way to encourage someone to start up a REAL Mac dealership in the area PLEASE do. I don't know how your dealership program works, but if someone else here applies for a dealership, PLEASE strongly consider it. Also, I don't know how Computerland's franchising works, but if upper-level Computerland management is listening, PLEASE get on the local branches case in a big way. ....Long bitch session over, thanks....... Jess Holle jess@mn.ecn.purdue.edu jess@gn.ecn.purdue.edu me
jess@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Jess M Holle) (05/15/91)
In article <1991May14.200710.16346@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> ghe@physics.orst.edu writes: >So, is Hypercard 2.1 freely distributable or only system 7.0? I am very curious about this as well and have the following questions to add: 1) Does the Hypercard 2.1 that comes with 7.0 include everything from -the Claris release -the minimalized version that comes with new Macs 2) If (1) is a no on either or both counts, what is missing/will I need/want it (ie. can I open any stack that I might come across that requires 2.1, can I do my own scripting, etc, etc) 3) Are the Hypercard 2.1 disks freely copiable like the rest of 7.0 -at dealers -eventually over ftp Much thanks to anyone who can inform me on these issues. Jess Holle
dlarkins@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Darrell B Larkins) (05/15/91)
I suppose I can bitch my local dealership out now too. I can relate to the
three stages of command at the local apple dealership. 1) The "Hang on, I don't
know what you are talking about" stage. 2) The "I think we can, but I'm not
sure, let me check...." stage. 3) The "Yes, we definitely do have the System
7.0 upgrade kits, but we can't make copies because it isn't free" stage.
This really pisses me off. [Excuse the French] It's next to impossible to
tell them that you heard it from the horses mouth on Usenet [what is that?],
and that you know that the upgrade kit is $99 but you just want the software.
It's so tempting to tell them that you know and they don't, but of course they
could never ever ever ever believe something different than what their manager
said. Problem is that the Usenet is so intangible, they would never buy it
unless you logged them ono your own system and read two weeks of previous
messages.
So here I am with 6.0.5 waiting for some day when I can get it free.
[Actually I am trying to get a couple of other people to go in on it with me,
so don't flame me for being cheap. I'm just broke.
The point? Oh yeah. The point. The point is that it's really nice to talk
about a utopian System 7.0 society here. But for me, I guess it's shell out the
beans for the upgrade kit... Just kind of a let down, that's all....
Congrats to all you lucky bastards who have it already.
Just frustrated,
Brian Larkins.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Yes, well that's the sort of blink-headed philistine pig-ignorance I've come|
| to expect from you non-creative garbage. -- John Cleese (Monty Python) |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|bdugan@teri.bio.uci.edu (Bill Dugan) (05/15/91)
At UC Irvine, our Macintosh lab apparently just decided to cash in on fanatics who want System 7 NOW. I was told they charge $10 for anyone (even students) to copy the disks. The question "Why" produced "Because the copying will take up a lot of time in which other students could be using the Macs for other things." The question "How about if I come by later when it isn't busy" produced "Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.................it doesn't work that way, it's still $10." Strangely, the campus computer dealer, Computrends, said they didn't do it and it was Computrends who referred me over to the Mac lab, which is not for computer science majors at all; basically, it's a Microsoft Word network where students can pay a few bucks to type up & print out their reports on a Laserwriter. It really would've been quite nice if Apple published some kind of coupon in the papers saying "Bring this to your dealer for a FREE copy of System 7". Assuming you bring the disks. It would be a nice way to standardize dealer response, which is never uniform even on simpler matters. bill
chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach, only here for the beer) (05/15/91)
jess@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Jess M Holle) writes: >Apple, if you're listening, if there is some way to encourage someone to start >up a REAL Mac dealership in the area PLEASE do. I don't know how your >dealership program works, but if someone else here applies for a dealership, >PLEASE strongly consider it. Bitching on USENET won't help. If you have a bum dealer (anywhere in the U.S.) call the Apple Assistance Center 800 number and lodge a complaint against them. Dealers that get a track record will be investigated -- but postings on the net don't count. -- Chuq Von Rospach >=< chuq@apple.com >=< GEnie:CHUQ or MAC.BIGOT >=< ALink:CHUQ SFWA Nebula Awards Reports Editor =+= Editor, OtherRealms Book Reviewer, Amazing Stories ---@--- #include <standard/disclaimer.h> Recommended: ORION IN THE DYING TIME Ben Bova (Tor, Aug, ***-); SACRED VISIONS Greeley&Cassutt (Tor, Aug, ****+); MEN AT WORK George Will (****); XENOCIDE Orson Scott Card (August, ****)
hv@uwasa.fi (Harri Valkama) (05/15/91)
In article <52858@apple.Apple.COM> bc@Apple.COM (bill coderre) writes: >iijimam@prism.CS.ORST.EDU (Mutsumi Iijima) writes: > >System 7.0 "officially" shipped at 1100 AM, worldwide developers' >conference time. The fact is that MANY places around the country had >their copies AT THAT TIME. Copies should be everywhere in a week or >so. > >Tell you what. If you get my boss to OK it, I'll hop in my 1963 >Corvair Monza Convertible and DRIVE OVER to your house and install >7.0. I should be there in about four to six days, depending on whether >the brakes hold up. And this is the kind of feedback that we here in UseNet are used to from Apple. Why can't you plan these arrangements like Microsoft does. Remember how Windows 3.0 appeared on market. Worldwide and same day. -- == Harri Valkama, University of Vaasa, Finland ============================ P.O. Box 700, 65101 VAASA, Finland (tel:+358 61 248426 fax:+358 61 248465) Anon ftp garbo.uwasa.fi (128.214.12.37) & nic.funet.fi (128.214.6.100) hv@uwasa.fi hv@finfiles.bitnet /s=hv/o=uwasa/prdm=inet/amdm=fumail/c=fi
bc@Apple.COM (bill coderre) (05/15/91)
gaynor@agvax2.ag.ohio-state.edu writes: |Cut him a break, Bill. Remember, until just recently, Apple was known |for having -lots- of an announced product out and available the day it |was announced. Obviously not a "Hundred Days" owner. I was convinced I was gonna wait a hundred days to get my Macintosh (the original one). (As for the Classics, Apple was pretty sure they had enough throughput to keep up with demand. Surprise! They Like It!) |Add those expectations to the amount of anticipation that Mac users |have gone through for the last two years waiting for 7.0, and the |taunts they've endured at the hands of their Windows-using |adversaries, and a lot of us Usenet folk begin acting like whiny kids. I certainly understand how you feel. I had to wait until the "fc" betas before I could "test" it. But please understand that Apple will acutally do a better job of getting 7.0 "out there" than with almost any other product they've shipped. Most of you should have it within a week, and the early polls predict that within a year, over THREE MILLION MACHINES will be running 7.0. |Latebreaking news flash. While I was writing this post, the OSU |Computer Store called. My copy of System 7.0 is in! Goshes, I love happy endings. bill coderre hundred days owner and damn proud of that
bc@Apple.COM (bill coderre) (05/15/91)
jess@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Jess M Holle) writes: |Speaking of dealers who could be doing better: |Anyone in the West Lafayette, Indiana, area knows of the pathetic dealership |that Computerland runs. Please go to the dealership and ask for the name, address, and phone number of the district manager for ComputerLand. Then write him/her a note, cc:ed to the store manager, explaining the problems you've had and what you'd like. Ask for a reply. If they don't give you some satisfaction, write to me and I'll try to see who you can contact at Apple. bill coderre ps. please don't write to me with lists of crummy dealers UNLESS you have talked to them and given them a chance to fix the problem.
bc@Apple.COM (bill coderre) (05/15/91)
dlarkins@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Darrell B Larkins) writes: | This really pisses me off. [Excuse the French] It's next to impossible to |tell them that you heard it from the horses mouth on Usenet [what is that?], |and that you know that the upgrade kit is $99 but you just want the software. |It's so tempting to tell them that you know and they don't, but of course they |could never ever ever ever believe something different than what their manager |said. 1. Talk to the manager. Have him or her call the System 7 Answer Line and ask the techs what the policy is. Aks the manager to tell you what they find out. 2. If the manager then refuses to offer duplication services, that's his/her right. You'll either have to copy from a friend, get it from a user group, or just buy the thing and suffer with the nice manuals and toll free support. Remember, just because Apple has been trying to explain the policy to computer stores for a while now, doesn't mean that they have to listen. Your store might not know what's happening yet. Give them half a chance. bill coderre beginning to wonder just who is selling macs
gaynor@agvax2.ag.ohio-state.edu (05/15/91)
In article <1991May15.004928.15595@gn.ecn.purdue.edu>, jess@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Jess M Holle) writes: >I am very curious about this as well and have the following questions to add: > >1) Does the Hypercard 2.1 that comes with 7.0 include everything from > -the Claris release > -the minimalized version that comes with new Macs The version of Hypercard 2.1 is the "minimalized" version. You get the full HC 2.1 binary, the "crippled" home stack (User Level 1 and 2 only), plus Addresses and Appointment Calendar. On the plus side, however, it is "Addresses with Audio" and "Appointment Calendar with Audio". You also get an "Audio Help" stack. As an aside, the trick of typing "magic" at the user level card no longer works. Pressing any key at that card just give you a beep. I think this is reliable info - I mean, I have the disks from the Personal Upgrade Kit right here... :-) >2) If (1) is a no on either or both counts, what is missing/will I need/want > it (ie. can I open any stack that I might come across that requires 2.1, > can I do my own scripting, etc, etc) You can open any stack that requires 2.1, provided you have enough system resources, of course. In order to do your own scripting, however, you need an alternate Home stack that will allow you to crank up the User Level (unless there is a trick in this one, different than "magic"). You'll probably also want some additional "support stacks". I'd advise you to check your local user group, ftp sites such as <sumex.stanford.edu> and <mac.archive.umich.edu>, and certain HyperCard books available in bookstores for these stacks. >3) Are the Hypercard 2.1 disks freely copiable like the rest of 7.0 > -at dealers > -eventually over ftp I have no firm data on this, but I doubt it. The Compatibility Checker can run on any HC from 2.1 to 1.2.2, so HC 2.1 is needed for that, and the only dealer that I've encountered who was allowing copies to be made of System 7.0 was not allowing copies of HC 2.1. --- Jim Gaynor - AgVAX System Manager - Academic Computing - Ohio State University VMS:<gaynor@agvax2.ag.ohio-state.edu> UNIX:<gaynor@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Disclaimer : All opinions expressed here are mine and only mine. So there! Witty Quote: "Think, think, think, think..." - Winnie-the-Pooh, Taoist Bear.
jcav@quads.uchicago.edu (john cavallino) (05/15/91)
In article <1991May15.074524.14152@uwasa.fi> hv@uwasa.fi (Harri Valkama) writes: >In article <52858@apple.Apple.COM> bc@Apple.COM (bill coderre) writes: >>Tell you what. If you get my boss to OK it, I'll hop in my 1963 >>Corvair Monza Convertible and DRIVE OVER to your house and install >>7.0. I should be there in about four to six days, depending on whether >>the brakes hold up. > >And this is the kind of feedback that we here in UseNet are used to >from Apple. Why can't you plan these arrangements like Microsoft does. >Remember how Windows 3.0 appeared on market. Worldwide and same day. It's not "from Apple", it's from a guy named Bill who works there and is posting ON HIS OWN TIME. Lighten up just a little bit, OK? And I don't know where you've been, but the responses of Apple people on Usenet are invaluable and much more frequent than those of most other companies. I suspect that the simple and obvious reason System 7 isn't in more places just yet is that it was released practically the instant it was finished, not after weeks of priming the distribution channel. Would you rather that Apple had made us wait even longer for the release? -- John Cavallino | EMail: jcav@midway.uchicago.edu University of Chicago Hospitals | USMail: 5841 S. Maryland Ave, Box 145 Office of Facilities Management | Chicago, IL 60637 B0 f++ w c+ g+ k s(+) e+ h- pv (qv) | Telephone: 312-702-6900
chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach, only here for the beer) (05/16/91)
hv@uwasa.fi (Harri Valkama) writes: >And this is the kind of feedback that we here in UseNet are used to >from Apple. Why can't you plan these arrangements like Microsoft does. >Remember how Windows 3.0 appeared on market. Worldwide and same day. And, in case anyone was wondering, this was a great example of what I was talking about last night. I hope Harri remembers this message next time he asks questions on the net and nobody at Apple replies (I know I won't, since he's headed towards my kill file...) -- Chuq Von Rospach >=< chuq@apple.com >=< GEnie:CHUQ or MAC.BIGOT >=< ALink:CHUQ SFWA Nebula Awards Reports Editor =+= Editor, OtherRealms Book Reviewer, Amazing Stories ---@--- #include <standard/disclaimer.h> Recommended: ORION IN THE DYING TIME Ben Bova (Tor, Aug, ***-); SACRED VISIONS Greeley&Cassutt (Tor, Aug, ****+); MEN AT WORK George Will (****); XENOCIDE Orson Scott Card (August, ****)
bc@Apple.COM (bill coderre) (05/16/91)
hv@uwasa.fi (Harri Valkama) writes: |And this is the kind of feedback that we here in UseNet are used to |from Apple. Why can't you plan these arrangements like Microsoft does. |Remember how Windows 3.0 appeared on market. Worldwide and same day. Sorry, I think Apple thought all of you would like it faster than that. Just out of curiosity, did Windows ship "internationally" in dozens of versions at once? Did they have it in every computer store at the same time? Apple (cross fingers and pray FedEx does right) should have all the international versions done mid-July, and should have PUK's in stores all over the continental US this week. Mind you, I still am impressed with Windows for being able to get everywhere at once, and the dealers who got it "first" for preventing the hackers from getting it before the allotted time. bill coderre
george@swbatl.sbc.com (George Nincehelser 5-6544) (05/16/91)
In article <52918@apple.Apple.COM> bc@Apple.COM (bill coderre) writes: >Just out of curiosity, did Windows ship "internationally" in dozens of >versions at once? Did they have it in every computer store at the same >time? > >Apple (cross fingers and pray FedEx does right) should have all the >international versions done mid-July, and should have PUK's in stores >all over the continental US this week. > Just out of curiosity, why couldn't Apple distribute the System 7.0 via the larger overnight mail-order houses? -- / George David Nincehelser \ george@swbatl.sbc.com \ / / Southwestern Bell Telephone \ Phone: (314) 235-6544 \ / / / Advanced Technology Laboratory \ Fax: (314) 235-5797 \ / / / /\ 1010 Pine, St. Louis, MO 63101 \ de asini umbra disceptare \
ech@cbnewsk.att.com (ned.horvath) (05/16/91)
I want to publicly thank Bill Coderre (bc@Apple.COM) for his light-hearted finger-in-the-dike duty here on UseNet while most of the Apple engineering staff is at the developer's conference. And Mark Johnson, for trying to do what I've already denounced as so far above and beyond reasonable that he should forget it, i.e. make s7 available over FTP. I STILL think he's crazy, but it's a lovable brand of crazy. And for the whiners who haven't gotten enough free goodies fast enough... get a job. Please post your new company, job description, phone number, and supervisor's name and phone number. I give you two weeks to learn compassion for your fellow mortals... -- =Ned Horvath= ehorvath@attmail.com
ewm@mdavcr.UUCP (Eric W. Mitchell) (05/16/91)
>In article <1991May13.173422.25070@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> iijimam@prism.CS.ORST.EDU (Mutsumi Iijima) writes: >PS: Lay off Apple on this one. System 7 is free (remember the whines about >how much it would cost?) even if you can't get it on day one. If you want to >complain, there's the whole issue of 32-bit ROMs that we can chew them out >for. > At least, it is free in the U.S. Apple Canada is charging $120 for it. And No, that is *not* just if you want the manuals. You *cannot* copy the disks for free. I had a long argument with serveral authorized Apple dealers about this. Why they are doing this is beyond me, but I would gladly pay the money if I got to rip out an Apple Canada exec's lungs in the deal. Eric -- ========================================================================== Eric Mitchell | "We're Screwed!!!" Ph. 604-278-3411 Fax. 604-278-2936 | email !uunet!van-bc!mdavcr!ewm | - Spaced Invaders. or ewm%mda.ca@wimsey.bc.ca | or ewm@mda.ca | ==========================================================================
keir@vms.macc.wisc.edu (Rick Keir, MACC) (05/16/91)
In article <RANG.91May14144441@nexus.cs.wisc.edu>, rang@cs.wisc.edu (Anton Rang) writes... > I'm somewhat more upset by >our university micro lab which (a) is not going to let us copy system >7 to our own disks and (b) is not going to be selling disks which >they've pre-copied for at least two weeks. To add some facts for those using computer centers: (1) we got official 7.0 at 9 AM Wednesday (2) by pushing our duping person we expect to have it ready by noon tomorrow (Thursday) You're free to copy system 7; we're just not making our systems available to do this. We distribute software (Claris upgrades, Word Perfect upgrades, Mac System 6.0.x upgrades) every day, and system 7 is just too large. We'd like our machines free for other purposes, too. We won't be selling the 3 manual set of docs separately for a while; Apple hasn't delivered any to us as of yet. (For those who buy this: the 3-manual set omits a short brochure on "How to install System 7" which is good advice, but not terribly necessary for those who've muddled through previous upgrades; and it omits the "Hypercard Basics" manual, an extremely stripped down Hypercard tutorial. This is the set Apple packages in 5-packs (5 sets of 3 books each) for lab/group upgrades.)
jess@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Jess M Holle) (05/16/91)
In article <1991May15.135248.29580@zardoz.eng.ohio-state.edu> gaynor@agvax2.ag.ohio-state.edu writes: >As an aside, the trick of typing "magic" at the user level card no >longer works. Pressing any key at that card just give you a beep. ...stuff deleted >stack that will allow you to crank up the User Level (unless there is >a trick in this one, different than "magic"). You'll probably also Does anyone know of a way to access levels 3 through 5 on the 7.0 distribution of HC 2.1? Jess Holle
tshea@vax1.mankato.msus.edu (05/16/91)
In article <1991May15.074524.14152@uwasa.fi>, hv@uwasa.fi (Harri Valkama) writes: > In article <52858@apple.Apple.COM> bc@Apple.COM (bill coderre) writes: >>iijimam@prism.CS.ORST.EDU (Mutsumi Iijima) writes: >> >>System 7.0 "officially" shipped at 1100 AM, worldwide developers' >>conference time. The fact is that MANY places around the country had >>their copies AT THAT TIME. Copies should be everywhere in a week or >>so. >> >>Tell you what. If you get my boss to OK it, I'll hop in my 1963 >>Corvair Monza Convertible and DRIVE OVER to your house and install >>7.0. I should be there in about four to six days, depending on whether >>the brakes hold up. > > And this is the kind of feedback that we here in UseNet are used to > from Apple. Why can't you plan these arrangements like Microsoft does. > Remember how Windows 3.0 appeared on market. Worldwide and same day. > > -- > == Harri Valkama, University of Vaasa, Finland ============================ > P.O. Box 700, 65101 VAASA, Finland (tel:+358 61 248426 fax:+358 61 248465) > Anon ftp garbo.uwasa.fi (128.214.12.37) & nic.funet.fi (128.214.6.100) > hv@uwasa.fi hv@finfiles.bitnet /s=hv/o=uwasa/prdm=inet/amdm=fumail/c=fi Ya, and look at what you got! System 7.0 is finished and was announced on May 13th. Will being without System 7.0 for another week going to kill you? are you going to loose business or money because you didn't get System 7.0 the day it was announced? Apple did an excellent job with this upgrade and I cannot imagine the number programmers that spent all night every night before the dead line working on this upgrade. Instead of whining about how you didn't receive System 7.0 on May 13th at 12:01 am you should be applauding the people who did the job and did it well.
dlarkins@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Darrell B Larkins) (05/16/91)
In article <1991May15.175314.28282@cbnewsk.att.com> ech@cbnewsk.att.com (ned.ho rvath) writes >And for the whiners who haven't gotten enough free goodies fast enough... >get a job. Please post your new company, job description, phone number, >and supervisor's name and phone number. I give you two weeks to learn >compassion for your fellow mortals... >-- > >=Ned Horvath= >ehorvath@attmail.com And for you arrogant bastards who can't imagine that System 7.0 distribution isn't perfect you can try not having all the toys that you're used to your company buying for you and try to live with a sub-Mac II platform for awhile. Stop telling anyone who is complaining to go get a job. Apple has done a masterful job of distribution. The logistics of this must be horrible from Apple's end. But, it isn't perfect. Just because you have been beta testing on your IIfx for 2 years and I haven't seen 7.0 until today, gives you the right to tell me I can't be a little anxious? I think not. And then call me lazy for not having a job. Way to patch things up and make them all better. Why don't you give some reasons here instead of the B.S. I want 7.0, but I don't have it. I'm unhappy about it. What reason do you have to ream me a new asshole? Post my new company, job description, phone number, and boss's name? Why don't you give me your home address, which window is your bedroom, and what is the combination of your security system? I'll give you two weeks to learn compassion for your local insurance agent. [Tried to have a sense of humor.] Brian Larkins. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | Yes, well that's the sort of blink-headed philistine pig-ignorance I've come| | to expect from you non-creative garbage. -- John Cleese (Monty Python) | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
oleary@ux.acs.umn.edu (Doc O'Leary) (05/16/91)
In article <1211@mdavcr.UUCP> ewm@mdavcr.UUCP (Eric W. Mitchell) writes: >>In article <1991May13.173422.25070@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> iijimam@prism.CS.ORST.EDU (Mutsumi Iijima) writes: > >>PS: Lay off Apple on this one. System 7 is free (remember the whines about >>how much it would cost?) even if you can't get it on day one. If you want to >>complain, there's the whole issue of 32-bit ROMs that we can chew them out >>for. >> Actually, I wrote the above, so don't anybody get on Mutsumi Iijima's case. >At least, it is free in the U.S. Apple Canada is charging $120 for it. >And No, that is *not* just if you want the manuals. You *cannot* copy >the disks for free. I had a long argument with serveral authorized >Apple dealers about this. Can other people from Canada verify this? It would seem awfully stupid for Apple Canada to charge $120, seeing as you can get just the disks from (perhaps) BMUG for $20-25 (don't know the exact price, I got System 7 free from the U of M's Microcomputer Center). >Why they are doing this is beyond me, but I would gladly pay the money >if I got to rip out an Apple Canada exec's lungs in the deal. I suspect your dealers are just being jerks like ours are. Apple's getting a lot of grief for problems that just aren't their fault. If anybody's lungs should be removed, it looks like it's the dealers. --------- Doc ********************** Signature Block : Version 2.5 ********************* * | OK, one last time . . . This is * * "Was it love, or was it the idea | an egg . . . This is an egg in a * * of being in love?" -- PF | frying pan . . . Any questions? * * (BTW, which one *is* Pink?) | * * | --->oleary@ux.acs.umn.edu<--- * ****************** Copyright (c) 1991 by Doc O'Leary ********************
bmug@garnet.berkeley.edu (BMUG) (05/16/91)
In article <1991May16.000909.27117@gn.ecn.purdue.edu> jess@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Jess M Holle) writes: >In article <1991May15.135248.29580@zardoz.eng.ohio-state.edu> gaynor@agvax2.ag.ohio-state.edu writes: >>As an aside, the trick of typing "magic" at the user level card no >>longer works. > >Does anyone know of a way to access levels 3 through 5 on the 7.0 distribution >of HC 2.1? > Apparently the "magic" trick still works in HC 2.1; at least, several people at tonight's BMUG general meeting were able to make it work. Remember, you've got to go to the last card of the Home stack before you give the signal. There can't be two versions of HC 2.1 (or its Home stack in the Sys7 Personal Edition) out there, can there? John Heckendorn -- /\ BMUG ARPA: bmug@garnet.berkeley.EDU A__A 1442A Walnut St., #62 BITNET: bmug@ucbgarne |()| Berkeley, CA 94709 Phone: (415) 549-2684 | |
ech@cbnewsk.att.com (ned.horvath) (05/16/91)
In article <1991May15.135248.29580@zardoz.eng.ohio-state.edu> gaynor@agvax2.ag.ohio-state.edu writes: >As an aside, the trick of typing "magic" at the user level card no >longer works. Pressing any key at that card just give you a beep. Sounds like blind-typing is off. Try cmd-M (turn on message box) and type magic into that. Failing that, bring up the message box and type set the userlevel to 5 Disclaimer: I haven't seen HC 2.1 yet, these recommendations are motherhood... -- =Ned Horvath= ehorvath@attmail.com
philip@pescadero.Stanford.EDU (Philip Machanick) (05/16/91)
In article <1991May16.150215.25531@cbnewsk.att.com>, ech@cbnewsk.att.com (ned.horvath) writes: |> In article <1991May15.135248.29580@zardoz.eng.ohio-state.edu> gaynor@agvax2.ag.ohio-state.edu writes: |> >As an aside, the trick of typing "magic" at the user level card no |> >longer works. Pressing any key at that card just give you a beep. |> |> Sounds like blind-typing is off. Try cmd-M (turn on message box) and type |> magic into that. |> |> Failing that, bring up the message box and type |> set the userlevel to 5 |> I already posted this but maybe it got lost (high noise to signal ratio in this group?): |> You can still type magic into the the message box Your second suggestion will also work, but doesn't clear the stuff hiding the user level buttons. -- Philip Machanick philip@pescadero.stanford.edu
Adam.Frix@p18.f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Adam Frix) (05/17/91)
iijimam@prism.CS.ORST.EDU (Mutsumi Iijima) writes:
MI> It is 10:00 PDT, May 13th. I walked into Oregon State University
MI> Book Store few minutes ago and asked about System 7.0. They said
MI> they hadn't gotten a copy of System 7.0, yet. According to them,
MI> The Computer Store (which is an authorized Apple dealer and is
MI> in town (Corvallis, OR) hadn't gotten it, yet. They also said
MI> they could get it Thursday night, but not from Apple, from Corvallis
MI> MUG. One more thing they said, "You will need 12 800K disks."
MI> What? 12 DD disks? How the system can grow that much?
MI> C'mon Apple, it's May 13th! We all want System 7.0.
At 10:00 am 5/13 I walked into the dealer and asked. He said he didn't have it. When I flattered him by explaining that Apple sent out some packages to dealers the prior week (under the condition that they be kept on ice until Magic Monday) and that _certainly_ his dealership was on the list, he called the warehouse and indeed found a stash of a couple hundred Personal Upgrade Kits. They came into the store at 5:00 pm, and yes, I was the first in central Ohio to get a kit.
Now to unwrap it....
...but not until I'm certain we won't see another 6.0.6/6.0.7 deal....
--Adam--
--
Adam Frix via cmhGate - Net 226 fido<=>uucp gateway Col, OH
UUCP: ...!osu-cis!n8emr!cmhgate!20.18!Adam.Frix
INET: Adam.Frix@p18.f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORGmha@THEORY.TC.CORNELL.EDU (Mark H. Anbinder) (05/17/91)
In article <52918@apple.Apple.COM> bc@Apple.COM (bill coderre) writes: > >Apple (cross fingers and pray FedEx does right) should have all the >international versions done mid-July, and should have PUK's in stores >all over the continental US this week. I'm going to chime in here, because I think, despite Bill's impressive efforts, people are getting the wrong impression of how well Apple has done this. Several weeks ago, Apple dealers were given forms to fill out to get copies of System 7 for the intro date. They were told that orders placed for the upgrade kits through the regular channels would NOT be delivered by the intro date, but that orders placed on these forms WOULD. As it happens, Apple didn't have quite enough kits to cover all of the pre-ship orders, so they allocated a few copies to each dealer who'd gotten the special forms in by the deadline. We had two copies last Saturday. I have a strong suspicion that the dealers who haven't gotten their upgrade kits yet didn't get their orders in on time, or in the right manner (the special forms, not the usual channel). I could be wrong, but *I* haven't seen any reason to fault Apple for the way they have handled this upgrade. Sure, I would have preferred to have enough of the PUK for all of the dozens of people who've come in to buy it (I want a copy for myself, too! :-), but Apple is doing well considering the demand. Keep in mind that this thing was just finalized a VERY few days ago, and they have had several disk duplicators working full time on it since. Just my two cents. :-) -- Mark H. Anbinder ************************* mha@theory.tn.cornell.edu BAKA Computers * ******* ...!batcomputer!memory!mha 200 Pleasant Grove Rd. H: (607) 257-3480 ****** Ithaca, NY 14850 W: (607) 257-2070 ***** Memory Alpha BBS 607-257-5822
cs421317@umbc5.umbc.edu (cs421317) (05/18/91)
I just read the message from the guy at OSU who has 6.0.5 and has to wait to get S7. I'm waiting for the upgrade kit to be delivered from the dealer in the mail (prop Monday), but an idea occured to me. How hard would it be to send E-mail to someone else on the Internet (like Jim Gaynor) and set up an opprotunity to go over to his house and swap bits, so to speak. I'm sure you can find someone who'll help out ... I guess I should put my disks where my mouth is, so ***WHEN*** I finally get it, I guess I can help out anyone who needs it at the Census Bureau. E-mail if getting S7 at the Bureau is a prob. - Gary Goldberg Census Bureau/DIR/SIRS AOL:OgGreeb cs421317@umbc5.umbc.edu
pascal@CAM.ORG (Pascal Gosselin) (05/18/91)
oleary@ux.acs.umn.edu (Doc O'Leary) writes: [stuff deleted] >>At least, it is free in the U.S. Apple Canada is charging $120 for it. >>And No, that is *not* just if you want the manuals. You *cannot* copy >>the disks for free. I had a long argument with serveral authorized >>Apple dealers about this. >Can other people from Canada verify this? It would seem awfully stupid >for Apple Canada to charge $120, seeing as you can get just the disks >from (perhaps) BMUG for $20-25 (don't know the exact price, I got System 7 >free from the U of M's Microcomputer Center). The official line from the Marketing people at Apple Canada is that dealers CAN'T make copies for free. However, the senior Systems Engineering guy at Apple Canada told us on Tuesday that this whole affair was a bunch of BS and that we *COULD* copy the system. When we told this to the marketing folks, they freaked out. This was 2 days ago and we *STILL* don't know what the truth is. I'll be sure to inform the Net when the official work is out ON PAPER (i.e. a document that states an official policy change and/or a change in the legal questions regarding system software distribution). As of May 18th, we will haven't heard a thing from Apple Canada that can truely be called credible. We still haven't gotten our "real" 7.0's yet. I was given a copy by Apple Canada (technically illegal, I was told) in the mean time (after lots of bitching) but I can't give it to anyone before the dust settles. -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Pascal Gosselin | Internet: P.Gosselin@CAM.ORG Applelink: CDA0585 | | Gest-Mac Inc. Apple VAR | Voice (514) 767-4444 Fax (514) 767-7337 | +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
kenh@eclectic.COM (Ken Hancock) (05/21/91)
In article <52918@apple.Apple.COM> bc@Apple.COM (bill coderre) writes: >Mind you, I still am impressed with Windows for being able to get >everywhere at once, and the dealers who got it "first" for preventing >the hackers from getting it before the allotted time. You jest, right? Windows, just like System 7.0, was floating around before the official release day. (I don't recall how long before, but for System 7.0, it was about a week.) Ken -- Ken Hancock | INTERNET: kenh@eclectic.com Isle Systems | Compuserve: >INTERNET: kenh@eclectic.com Macintosh Consulting | AOL: KHancock | Disclaimer: My opinions are mine, | your opinions are yours. Simple, isn't it?