bskendig@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Brian Kendig) (05/10/91)
Due to all the questions recently that all are variations on "Why should I upgrade to System 7.0? What good is it, really?", I've decided to update and repost an article I put here about two months ago. ----- >... Should I get it? Will it attempt to rape my Mac IIcx just like >many of these other upgrades do? I wish someone would post the major >changes/advantages of system 7.0. How much of my life will be trashed >in the uneasy transition to 7.0? Yes, System 7 is designed to totally trash your Macintosh. Well over a year of careful design and development was spent fine-tuning the system to cause loss of crucial data at the worst times possible, and the system manuals were revised countless times to make them as obscure and misleading and confusing as they could be. But seriously, folks: No, it will not `rape' your Macintosh. No, the transition will not be uneasy. No, your life will not be trashed. The difference between System 6 and System 7 is something akin to the difference between Microsoft Windows 3.0 and anything on a Macintosh. System 7 includes lots of little built-in things that you won't know how you ever lived without: ... an intelligent System Folder that knows exactly where to put things you drop into it, ... an Apple Menu that you can configure just by putting things into a folder (no more Font/DA Mover), ... the ability to open suitcases and cdevs (no more Control Panel) and even the System File itself directly from the Finder, ... a Finder that actually does more for you and fixes seven years worth of little glitches and anomalies that you've probably long since taken as facts of life (and it even adds beautiful color, and keeps the Trash can where you move it, and adds labels and list views and stuff), ... the addition of aliases (which you will probably quickly find gobs of uses for: a file can now appear in several places. Drop an alias of Microsoft Word in the Apple Menu Items folder! Double-click on an alias of a fileserver, and have your Mac automatically connect to the fileserver for you!), ... the ability to have TeachText quickly open any `README' file that used to elicit the dialog "The application that created this document is busy/missing," ... the ability to hit command-option-escape and quit out of an application that has hung or bombed, ... the ability to give an icon to any file merely by pasting any graphic into a "Get Info" window (graphics are resized to fit), ... the ability to move through files in Finder windows by typing their names and using the arrow keys and Tab key, ... the ability to "hide" applications (Multifinder is always turned on under System 7, so if the screen becomes too cluttered with windows, just hide a few applications -- their windows will vanish until you show the applications again)... And then, once you've gotten past the little niceties, you get to the big stuff: AppleEvents -- you can write a small text editor that can tell somebody else's small spell checker to check your document, or you can have HyperCard tell the Finder to open your favorite paint program then tell that paint program to open a file and print it. The Edition Manager -- you can analyze statistics with your spreadsheet and `publish' that file, then write up a report with your word processor and `subscribe' to the spreadsheet file when you place it in your report. Find that your numbers were off somewhere? Load up the spreadsheet file, change the numbers, and save your work -- and the part of it you copied into your report is automatically updated to reflect the change. Personal FileShare -- you want the guy down the hall to be able to get at some of your files? Just turn FileShare on, and he can mount your hard drive as a server on his Mac or IBM without interrupting your work. The files need to be seen by more people? Set up user accounts and groups and priviledges for your various files and folders by using familiar techniques in the Finder. Need to be able to get to your hard drive from any machine on the network? Turn FileShare on, drop an alias of your hard drive onto a floppy disk, then you can pretend that the floppy disk contains everything on your hard drive -- because when you put it into a Mac and open the alias, the Mac will automatically mount the hard drive on your machine and give you access to its files. The Help Manager -- you have an application that's so complex that it looks like it was coded by Martians? Just use the Help menu (right next to the Applications menu at the right end of the menubar, which is where the Multifinder icon used to be) to turn on interactive help, and point to what you don't grok. Balloons of text will appear as you move your pointer, explaining exactly what such-and-such is and why it's highlighted or turned off or what-not. Virtual Memory -- on any Mac with a PMMU in it (all Mac II class machines except the original Mac II), you can tell it to pretend that part of the hard disk is really RAM memory. If you have 2 megs of memory in your machine, and you need five megs for a little while, just add three megabytes of virtual memory: the Mac will use some hard disk space to store the information that it's pretending is in memory, and it will load this information back into RAM when it needs it. (In this example, you'll need 3M free on the hard drive to store the virtual memory, and another meg or two for some free room in which to swap stuff out of RAM onto the disk.) Sound good? Too good, maybe? Bugs, right? Nope. This isn't going to be another case of System 6.0 (oops) 6.0.1 (whups) 6.0.2 (aah) ... 6.0.5 (nice) 6.0.6 (oops) 6.0.7 (crash). This thing's been in development for well over a year now. Apple made a CD-ROM with the alpha 9 version of the code, and sent it to developers so people could begin making _sure_ their programs worked well with System 7. Then they did the same with the beta 1 version (which included a list a mile high of reported and resolved bugs), and then again with the beta 4 version. They even went through a handful of `final candidate' versions, ironing out the most minor glitches. If you're holding out for System 7.0.1, you'll be waiting a long time while the rest of us are on cloud nine. However, before 7.0 is officially released, there are a few things you can do to get ready for it. - Don't expect to keep using System 6 if you depend at all on your Macintosh for work. As applications begin taking advantage of all the new features, your machine will be at a dead-and in terms of what it can run; as you see people working even more quickly and easily with the improved Finder, you'll be deciding to upgrade. - Therefore, if you have a Macintosh with only one megabyte of memory, upgrade it now to at least two. System 7 includes a Multifinder that's integrated into the system -- you can't turn it off. Therefore it *requires* 2Mb to even load into your machine in the first place, and probably 2.5-3Mb to be of any great use if you're a Multifinder enthusiast. As soon as System 7 is released, hordes of people may very well create a backlog of SIMMs, and then you'll be kicking yourself for not planning ahead. - System 7 works fine with Plusses, SE's, and Classics. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that it works _quickly_. The engineers at Apple have done a *tremendous* job of optimizing the code to do quite well on the 68000-based machines, but if you use your SE or (especially) Plus for several hours each day, it might not be a bad idea to look into selling your machine while you still might be able to get some money for it, and upgrading to a Macintosh LC or IIsi. If you're in the market for a Macintosh, don't be blindly lured by the enticing price of the Classic; the small nine-inch screen of the compact Macs definitely hampers System 7 more than it did System 6, because you're likely to have more windows open on the screen at a time (what with Multifinder on all the time). - System 7 will offer `virtual memory' to anyone whose machine has a PMMU. This means that you can take a IIci with four megs of memory, for example, and tell it to simulate having eight megs, as long as you have enough free space on your hard drive to store the swapfiles. Virtual memory is nice, but it's slow; if you can afford the RAM, you'll be doing yourself a favor. (Here's a VM tip: If you use more virtual memory than you've got RAM in your machine, you might find your machine slowing down due to frequent and heavy disk accesses. As a rule of thumb, if you have, say, 4M RAM in your machine, add no more than 4M virtual for a total of 8M if you want to keep peppy.) When System 7.0 is released, it'll most likely be available everywhere on the release date. Apple's most likely not going to stand in the way of letting anyone have a copy of it; all you'll need to do is bring seven 800k floppies or four 1.4Mb floppies to your local Apple dealer, and copy away. (Then bring 'em back to your office, install it on your machine, set up folders containing the contents of the disks, and use Personal FileShare to make your hard drive available to the network; people can then upgrade from System 6 to System 7 directly from your machine, without ever having to worry about getting copies of the distribution disks!) If you want documentation, that will be an additional charge ($90, I think, is the price that's been given here). Copying disks is free and simple; copying lots and lots of paper is a hassle which dealers usually don't want to go through. << Brian >> Disclaimer: I don't work for Apple. All of this information comes from public sources such as MacWeek, and my own experience in using System 7.0b4. (I removed 6.0.7 from my hard drive long ago; 7.0 is much more stable and a heluvalot better, in my opinion.) | Brian S. Kendig \ Macintosh | Engineering, | bskendig | | Computer Engineering |\ Thought | USS Enterprise | @phoenix.Princeton.EDU | Princeton University |_\ Police | -= NCC-1701-D =- | @PUCC.BITNET | "You gave your life to become the person you are right now. Was it worth it?"
kucharsk@solbourne.com (William Kucharski) (05/10/91)
Not to rain on anyone's parade, but I used to think like this when I was in school, too. Now that I've been in the "Real World(tm)" for a while, I know better (no flames intended)... In article <9348@idunno.Princeton.EDU> bskendig@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Brian Kendig) writes: >Nope. This isn't going to be another case of System 6.0 (oops) 6.0.1 >(whups) 6.0.2 (aah) ... 6.0.5 (nice) 6.0.6 (oops) 6.0.7 (crash). > >This thing's been in development for well over a year now. Apple made >a CD-ROM with the alpha 9 version of the code, and sent it to >developers so people could begin making _sure_ their programs worked >well with System 7. Then they did the same with the beta 1 version >(which included a list a mile high of reported and resolved bugs), and >then again with the beta 4 version. They even went through a handful >of `final candidate' versions, ironing out the most minor glitches. I'll believe this when I see it. Yes, 7.0alpha and 7.0b4 and friends have been out for a long time, but when you consider the number of systems out there running 7,416 PD and shareware INITs, I'm sure problems will turn up. How's the compatibility? Will I have to pay $75/pop to the developers of all my programs to get a version that won't crash under 7.0? I'm not talking "use the new features of 7.0," I'm talking what programs of mine, if any, will 7.0 break? >- Don't expect to keep using System 6 if you depend at all on your >Macintosh for work. As applications begin taking advantage of all the >new features, your machine will be at a dead-and in terms of what it >can run; as you see people working even more quickly and easily with >the improved Finder, you'll be deciding to upgrade. Define work. Yes, there are lots of hoopy new features in 7.0, but I wouldn't expect most businesses to install 7.0 on more than one or two Macs in the building before 1992 at best, just because most Mac admins that I've had to deal with at some point or another have a "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" attitude. Also, have you ever tried to get more RAM for a company-owned Mac? It isn't pretty. As far as upgrades go, how many companies out there are still running Word 3, for example? >- System 7 works fine with Plusses, SE's, and Classics. However, that >doesn't necessarily mean that it works _quickly_. The engineers at >Apple have done a *tremendous* job of optimizing the code to do quite >well on the 68000-based machines, but if you use your SE or >(especially) Plus for several hours each day, it might not be a bad >idea to look into selling your machine while you still might be able >to get some money for it, and upgrading to a Macintosh LC or IIsi. If >you're in the market for a Macintosh, don't be blindly lured by the >enticing price of the Classic; the small nine-inch screen of the >compact Macs definitely hampers System 7 more than it did System 6, >because you're likely to have more windows open on the screen at a >time (what with Multifinder on all the time). This is a nice thought, and great for the individual, but I can't see businesses which have a few hundred Pluses, SEs, etc. selling off truckloads of them to get new Macs which can deal with System 7; most likely they'll try but switch back to 6.0.4 after all their users get done complaining about what a dog their Mac has suddenly become (e.g. more of a dog than usual for a Classic/Plus/SE). I guess I'm somewhat of a cynic and kind of two-faced; I love the new features any new release brings, and I've been looking forward to 7.0 for quite some time; however I can honestly say that I won't be putting up 7.0 for at least a month or two after its release -- let other people find all the hidden bugs. Even if you've had a long beta, customers are great at finding bugs you've never even thought of... -- | William Kucharski, Solbourne Computer, Inc. | Opinions expressed above | Internet: kucharsk@Solbourne.COM | are MINE alone, not those | uucp: ...!{boulder,sun,uunet}!stan!kucharsk | of Solbourne... | Snail Mail: 1900 Pike Road, Longmont, CO 80501 | "It's Night 9 With D2 Dave!"
dawg6844@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Dan Walkowski) (05/10/91)
kucharsk@solbourne.com (William Kucharski) writes: >I guess I'm somewhat of a cynic and kind of two-faced; I love the new features >any new release brings, and I've been looking forward to 7.0 for quite some >time; however I can honestly say that I won't be putting up 7.0 for at least >a month or two after its release -- let other people find all the hidden bugs. >Even if you've had a long beta, customers are great at finding bugs you've >never even thought of... >-- Cynic? That's an understatement if I've ever heard one. First, let me set you straight on the compatibility issue. I've been running 7.0f3 for a month now, and I've only found one program that flat out crashes in 24-bit mode. (SimCity 1.2c. Hint, hint, MAXIS.) I have several hundred megs of software, and use my mac heavily. (>6 hours a day) I have found one or two other small glitches with software, for example, Freehand2.0 doesn't like TrueType fonts. (use the postscript ones) BUT, get this, I have found three (3) programs that I haven't been able to run in over two years because they crashed under 6.0.x, and now they work FINE. Yes, thats what I said. System7 seems to actually be MORE compatible with old software than 6.0.x. In summary: relax. 7.0 is exceptionally well done. It is the most bug-free release of system-software that apple has produced in years, as far as I can tell. -- _______________________________________________________________________________ Dan Walkowski | To understand recursion, Univ. of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci. | you must first understand recursion. walkowsk@cs.uiuc.edu |
jp48+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jonathan Pace) (05/10/91)
I've been avoiding commenting on System 7, but I have to jump in here. I have to agree that System 7 is probably more stable than System 6 has been. I tried running both on my machine, timidly trying out f3c2 and running back to Sys 6 for important stuff. Well, Sys 6 crashes my Mac IIcx more than 7 does. I think the adage 'if it isn't broken - don't fix it' has no value here what-so-ever. Sys 6 IS broke, and it does need fixing. One of the main reasons 7 is so stable is the tons of INITs it replaces. No more hacks to do all the nice things I've come to expect. I've cut my inits down from 23 to 7 and have all the same benefits. As for programs that don't run, I dont have _any_ that don't run under Sys 7. I have one INIT, DiskExpress II, that won't work, but it's being upgraded and the fix is already on the market. If you're waiting for 7.0.1, you better not hunger strike while you do it. Jon Pace Graduation! - Unemployment in one more week!
yee@osf.org (Michael K. Yee) (05/11/91)
In article <9348@idunno.Princeton.EDU> bskendig@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Brian Kendig) writes: > ... the ability to move through files in Finder windows by typing > their names and using the arrow keys and Tab key, This is a great feature, but it reminds me of the problem in 6.0.x in which you cannot drag select files if you are using View "as Name". I know you can Shift-Click on each file you want to select, but cannot drag select (i.e. drag rectangle to enclose selection in view "as Icon" or "as Small Icon"). Is there a way to EASILY select multiple files when you are viewing files "as Name"? =Mike -- == Michael K. Yee <yee@osf.org> -+- OSF/Motif Team == Open Software Foundation - 11 Cambridge Center - Cambridge, MA 02142 == "Live simply, so that others may simply live."
bskendig@bird.Princeton.EDU (Brian Kendig) (05/11/91)
In article <YEE.91May10160142@pmin27.osf.org> yee@osf.org (Michael K. Yee) writes: >In article <9348@idunno.Princeton.EDU> bskendig@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Brian Kendig) writes: >> ... the ability to move through files in Finder windows by typing >> their names and using the arrow keys and Tab key, > This is a great feature, but it reminds me of the problem in 6.0.x > in which you cannot drag select files if you are using View "as > Name". I know you can Shift-Click on each file you want to select, > but cannot drag select (i.e. drag rectangle to enclose selection in > view "as Icon" or "as Small Icon"). > > Is there a way to EASILY select multiple files when you are viewing > files "as Name"? You can now drag a rubberband-outline around the icons of the files shown in a list view ("View by Name, Size, Kind, Date, Label, Version, or Comments") easily. More Finder niceties: When you try to rubberband past the borders of the window in any view, the window scrolls with you. As you drag the rubberband, the selected files will highlite _as you enclose them_, not just after you release the mouse button. If you try to drag a file near the edge of a window, it will scroll horizontally, vertically, or diagonally to keep up -- no more having to move a file out to the desktop, scroll the window, then put the file back in just to drop it into a folder that was scrolled out of sight originally! Clicking a window's zoom box will resize it to perfectly fit the icons in it. (Under System 6, clicking a window's zoom box would grow the window to fill almost the whole screen.) You can now scroll sideways in a text view. The days of having to stretch a window waaay wide just to check the modification dates of some files are over! You can specify the font and point size for the text the Finder uses (Geneva 9 by default) from the Views control panel. You can also choose to have your icons in straight or staggered rows, tell it exactly what information to display in a list view, and tell it to use either small, medium, or large icons in a list view. I could go on -- but why don't you try it for yourself? ;) << Brian >> | Brian S. Kendig \ Macintosh | Engineering, | bskendig | | Computer Engineering |\ Thought | USS Enterprise | @phoenix.Princeton.EDU | Princeton University |_\ Police | -= NCC-1701-D =- | @PUCC.BITNET | "You gave your life to become the person you are right now. Was it worth it?"
burchil@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Charles Andrew Burchill) (05/11/91)
In <YEE.91May10160142@pmin27.osf.org> yee@osf.org (Michael K. Yee) writes: >In article <9348@idunno.Princeton.EDU> bskendig@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Brian Kendig) writes: >> ... the ability to move through files in Finder windows by typing >> their names and using the arrow keys and Tab key, > This is a great feature, but it reminds me of the problem in 6.0.x > in which you cannot drag select files if you are using View "as > Name". I know you can Shift-Click on each file you want to select, > but cannot drag select (i.e. drag rectangle to enclose selection in > view "as Icon" or "as Small Icon"). > > Is there a way to EASILY select multiple files when you are viewing > files "as Name"? > =Mike >-- >== Michael K. Yee <yee@osf.org> -+- OSF/Motif Team >== Open Software Foundation - 11 Cambridge Center - Cambridge, MA 02142 In system 7.0 you will be able to drag select when viewing by name. If there is a free line I think you can drag select in name veiw in systerm 6.0x >== "Live simply, so that others may simply live."
peirce@outpost.UUCP (Michael Peirce) (05/11/91)
In article <YEE.91May10160142@pmin27.osf.org>, yee@osf.org (Michael K. Yee) writes: > > This is a great feature, but it reminds me of the problem in 6.0.x > in which you cannot drag select files if you are using View "as > Name". I know you can Shift-Click on each file you want to select, > but cannot drag select (i.e. drag rectangle to enclose selection in > view "as Icon" or "as Small Icon"). > > Is there a way to EASILY select multiple files when you are viewing > files "as Name"? Sure. While you're viewing by name, simply click in a white space area. You'll get a grey rectangle to drag around just like in the other views. Ain't System 7 something! -- michael -- Michael Peirce -- outpost!peirce@claris.com -- Peirce Software -- Suite 301, 719 Hibiscus Place -- Macintosh Programming -- San Jose, California 95117 -- & Consulting -- (408) 244-6554, AppleLink: PEIRCE
rgm@ocf.berkeley.edu (Rob Menke) (05/11/91)
In article <YEE.91May10160142@pmin27.osf.org> yee@osf.org (Michael K. Yee) writes: Is there a way to EASILY select multiple files when you are viewing files "as Name"? If the window is wide enough (i.e. zoomed open), you can rubber-band a group of files provided that you click at the far right (about an inch past the "Last Modified" field... This, of course, doesn't work too well on small-screen Macs... -- "It is a pity that you Autobots die so | Robert Menke easily... otherwise one might get a | rgm@OCF.berkeley.edu sense of satisfaction..." | ...!ucbvax!OCF!rgm
marykuca@sol.UVic.CA (Brent Marykuca) (05/12/91)
In article <YEE.91May10160142@pmin27.osf.org> yee@osf.org (Michael K. Yee) writes: >In article <9348@idunno.Princeton.EDU> bskendig@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Brian Kendig) writes: >> ... the ability to move through files in Finder windows by typing >> their names and using the arrow keys and Tab key, > > This is a great feature, but it reminds me of the problem in 6.0.x > in which you cannot drag select files if you are using View "as > Name". I know you can Shift-Click on each file you want to select, > but cannot drag select (i.e. drag rectangle to enclose selection in > view "as Icon" or "as Small Icon"). > > Is there a way to EASILY select multiple files when you are viewing > files "as Name"? > > =Mike There sure is. In any name view, just click in any part of the window that doesn't contain writing or icons (white space...). You'll be able to do a band selection of the contents of the name view. Cheers, Brent Marykuca Apple Research Partnership Program University of Victoria -- Brent Marykuca (marykuca@sol.UVic.CA) Apple Research Partnership Program Computing User Services
jtn@potomac.ads.com (John T. Nelson) (05/12/91)
>System 7 includes lots of little built-in things that you won't know >how you ever lived without: Yes there is lot of cool stuff in system 7.0. Lots of tools that people can build triumphant apps on. Problem is that there are things that the Mac needs that still are not provided such as: o Protected process spaces. I hate it when my lowly user app trashes the system or when apps "Unexpectedly Quit." All Macs have user and kernal modes built into the chip. Why can't the OS use them? o Dynamic memory allocation. All memory allocation for an app is performed out of its own allocated app space. This is elegant in a sense since it protects other apps from your memory allocation mistake. Unfortunately since there's no protection between processes you can trash him anyway. Dynamic allocation of memory out of a common heap would make cooperation between processes MUCH smoother and eliminate the fiddling with the app size in get Info. o Preemptive Multitasking. Cooperative multitasking is kindof dumb. Protected process spaces and a system scheduling algorithm, although more complicated to control, would be more elegant for the user and programmer. Even with system 7.0 I have to reenter the event loop (or at least do a Wait NeXTEvent) periodically to get any background processing or update events processed. Many apps doesn't do background processing I'll bet because its inconvient as hell. o TrueType isn't Postscript. Well of course it isn't. TrueType is a good start but it can't do a LOT of stuff that Postscript can do. Where's the rotated text? Where's the blending? All the other stuff I want to do with fonts. o Still need my old INITS. Yup that's right. System 7.0 doesn't provide everything. I still need INITS like HierDA and On Queue to provide heiarchic menus and On Queue to conveniently launch my apps. Oh launching can be done in System 7.0, its just not as convenient as in On Queue. Boomerang remembers the paths of commonly used folders and provides a bunch of other utilities right from the SF dialog box. Great stuff... but system 7.0 doesn't have it. And what about INIT management? INITS are the bane of all Mac users but system 7.0 provides nothing in the way of utilities for resolving conflicts and sequencing INIT loading. At least nothing that I've found. Maybe the Golden release has more than Ive seen in the Beta releases. Sigh. o Full 32-bit clean ROMS on all machines. Well this isn't a system 7.0 gripe really but hey... how come I don't have 32-bit clean ROMs in my Mac IIcx? This means I can only have 1.5 times the memory existant in my machine as virtual memory**. So if I'm running with 8 megabytes of memory, I get only 14 meg of virtual as opposed to the 1 gigabyte of virtual those pricey FX's can do. ** these numbers gleaned from tests using 7.01 beta and a mac II (24-bit ROMS) a 68030 Daystar accelerator board. So yes system 7.0 is a massive improvement but it doesn't solve a lot of major defeciencies with the Mac.
ralph@cbnewsj.att.com (Ralph Brandi) (05/12/91)
In article <9396@idunno.Princeton.EDU> bskendig@bird.Princeton.EDU (Brian Kendig) writes: >You can specify the font and point size for the text the Finder uses >(Geneva 9 by default) from the Views control panel. You can also In 7.0b4, this only worked with fonts installed directly in the System. Choosing fonts installed using Suitcase would default back to Geneva. Has this been fixed for the final version? (Guess I'll find out soon enough....) -- Ralph Brandi ralph@mtunq.att.com att!mtunq!ralph R.I.P. Radio Canada International 1942-1991
scasterg@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stuart M Castergine) (05/12/91)
> >If you try to drag a file near the edge of a window, it will scroll >horizontally, vertically, or diagonally to keep up -- no more having >to move a file out to the desktop, scroll the window, then put the >file back in just to drop it into a folder that was scrolled out of >sight originally! > I just thought of something: If the window autoscrolls when you drag an icon near its edge, how _do_ you drag an icon onto the desktop? -- scasterg@magnus.ircc.ohio-state.edu Stuart M Castergine "Don't take life too seriously. You'll never get out alive." -- Bugs Bunny
bskendig@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Brian Kendig) (05/12/91)
In article <1991May11.233253.8853@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> scasterg@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stuart M Castergine) writes: >>If you try to drag a file near the edge of a window, it will scroll >>horizontally, vertically, or diagonally to keep up -- no more having >>to move a file out to the desktop, scroll the window, then put the >>file back in just to drop it into a folder that was scrolled out of >>sight originally! > >I just thought of something: If the window autoscrolls when you drag >an icon near its edge, how _do_ you drag an icon onto the desktop? Just drag it directly onto the desktop as usual. The window only autoscrolls when you hold the icon near an inside edge or corner of the window. << Brian >> | Brian S. Kendig \ Macintosh | Engineering, | bskendig | | Computer Engineering |\ Thought | USS Enterprise | @phoenix.Princeton.EDU | Princeton University |_\ Police | -= NCC-1701-D =- | @PUCC.BITNET | "You gave your life to become the person you are right now. Was it worth it?"
weiss@watson.seas.ucla.edu (Michael Weiss) (05/12/91)
In article <YEE.91May10160142@pmin27.osf.org> yee@osf.org (Michael K. Yee) writes: > Is there a way to EASILY select multiple files when you are viewing > files "as Name"? Yes. From what I understand, Sys 7 does precisely that (at least, that's what MacUser said). -- \ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | / - Michael Weiss weiss@watson.seas.ucla.edu | School of Engineering and - - izzydp5@oac.ucla.edu | Applied Science, UCLA - / | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | \
phaedrus@milton.u.washington.edu (Mark Phaedrus) (05/12/91)
In article <1991May11.233253.8853@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> scasterg@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stuart M Castergine) writes: >I just thought of something: If the window autoscrolls when you drag >an icon near its edge, how _do_ you drag an icon onto the desktop? Simplicity itself. When you drag an icon *near* the edge of a window (but still inside it), the window scrolls, but this doesn't change the on-screen position of the mouse pointer or the icon you're dragging. As soon as you drag the icon outside of the window, that window stops scrolling. You can do anything with a file icon under Finder 7 that you could under Finder 6. -- Internet: phaedrus@u.washington.edu (University of Washington, Seattle) The views expressed here are not those of this station or its management. "If you can keep your head while those about you are losing theirs, consider an exciting career as a guillotine operator!"
kik@wjh12.harvard.edu (Ken Kreshtool) (05/14/91)
In article <RGM.91May11001236@cyclone.Berkeley.EDU> rgm@ocf.berkeley.edu (Rob Menke) writes: -In article <YEE.91May10160142@pmin27.osf.org> yee@osf.org (Michael K. -Yee) writes: Is there a way to EASILY select multiple files when you are viewing files "as Name"? -If the window is wide enough (i.e. zoomed open), you can rubber-band a -group of files provided that you click at the far right (about an inch -past the "Last Modified" field... Wow! That's really neat! And after playing around a bit, I discovered that it also works if you start _below_ the list of names and stretch your rubberband upwards! (Which still won't work if your names scroll past the bottom of your screen.) Ken Kreshtool kik@wjh12.harvard.edu
nerm@Apple.COM (Dean Yu) (05/14/91)
In article <YEE.91May10160142@pmin27.osf.org> yee@osf.org (Michael K. Yee) writes: >In article <9348@idunno.Princeton.EDU> bskendig@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Brian Kendig) writes: >> ... the ability to move through files in Finder windows by typing >> their names and using the arrow keys and Tab key, > > This is a great feature, but it reminds me of the problem in 6.0.x > in which you cannot drag select files if you are using View "as > Name". I know you can Shift-Click on each file you want to select, > but cannot drag select (i.e. drag rectangle to enclose selection in > view "as Icon" or "as Small Icon"). > > Is there a way to EASILY select multiple files when you are viewing > files "as Name"? > Actually, under System 7, as long as you don't click in the icon, or the name of the file, you'll drag out a selection marquee, even in list views. -- Dean Yu Blue Meanie, Negative Ethnic Role Model, etc. Apple Computer, Inc. My opinions and so on and so forth and it's f*ckin' out the door!
nerm@Apple.COM (Dean Yu) (05/14/91)
In article <1991May11.233253.8853@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> scasterg@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stuart M Castergine) writes: >> >>If you try to drag a file near the edge of a window, it will scroll >>horizontally, vertically, or diagonally to keep up -- no more having >>to move a file out to the desktop, scroll the window, then put the >>file back in just to drop it into a folder that was scrolled out of >>sight originally! >> > >I just thought of something: If the window autoscrolls when you drag >an icon near its edge, how _do_ you drag an icon onto the desktop? > >-- The area around a window which activates autoscrolling is fairly small, and you have to keep the icon there for a certain amount of time before the autoscrolling kicks in. If you just drag at a normal pace, the window you're dragging out of won't scroll before you're done moving the icon. -- Dean Yu Blue Meanie, Negative Ethnic Role Model, etc. Apple Computer, Inc. My opinions and so on and so forth...
kik@wjh12.harvard.edu (Ken Kreshtool) (05/15/91)
>>In article <9348@idunno.Princeton.EDU> bskendig@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Brian Kendig) writes: >>> ... the ability to move through files in Finder windows by typing >>> their names and using the arrow keys and Tab key, >> >> This is a great feature, but it reminds me of the problem in 6.0.x >> in which you cannot drag select files if you are using View "as >> Name". I know you can Shift-Click on each file you want to select, >> but cannot drag select (i.e. drag rectangle to enclose selection in >> view "as Icon" or "as Small Icon"). >> >> Is there a way to EASILY select multiple files when you are viewing >> files "as Name"? Oops. Dumb me. When I replied that you can click below the names and then rubberband upward around them (if there's a little extra white space down there), I should have mentioned that that's in 6.0.x. I misinterpreted the question, but I still think it's pretty neat to know. Great for getting rid of all those Word temp files that pile up on a public machine. (I don't have System 7 yet.) Not that anyone who reads this is going to be using System 6.0.x anymore by next week, though... Ken Kreshtool kik@wjh12.harvard.edu
s8105119@ipc10.tmc.edu (Gary Kevin MAKIN) (05/15/91)
In article <605@wjh12.harvard.edu> kik@wjh12.UUCP (Ken Kreshtool) writes: >Wow! That's really neat! And after playing around a bit, I discovered that it >also works if you start _below_ the list of names and stretch your rubberband >upwards! (Which still won't work if your names scroll past the bottom >of your screen.) It also works if you start to the left, or in between fields. Gary Makin.
Adam.Frix@p18.f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Adam Frix) (05/19/91)
kik@wjh12.harvard.edu (Ken Kreshtool) writes:
KK> Not that anyone who reads this is going to be using System 6.0.x
KK> anymore by next week, though...
Oh, there'll be one or two of us holdouts...
--Adam--
--
Adam Frix via cmhGate - Net 226 fido<=>uucp gateway Col, OH
UUCP: ...!osu-cis!n8emr!cmhgate!20.18!Adam.Frix
INET: Adam.Frix@p18.f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORGdik@cwi.nl (Dik T. Winter) (05/21/91)
In article <264401.2837F1C1@cmhgate.FIDONET.ORG> Adam.Frix@p18.f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Adam Frix) writes: > kik@wjh12.harvard.edu (Ken Kreshtool) writes: > KK> Not that anyone who reads this is going to be using System 6.0.x > KK> anymore by next week, though... > Oh, there'll be one or two of us holdouts... > Yup. Considering I am still using 4.1 or thereabouts.... -- dik t. winter, cwi, amsterdam, nederland dik@cwi.nl
francis@arthur.uchicago.edu (Francis Stracke) (05/22/91)
In article <264401.2837F1C1@cmhgate.FIDONET.ORG> Adam.Frix@p18.f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Adam Frix) writes: kik@wjh12.harvard.edu (Ken Kreshtool) writes: KK> Not that anyone who reads this is going to be using System 6.0.x KK> anymore by next week, though... Oh, there'll be one or two of us holdouts... --Adam-- U. of Chicago is planning to hold off on installing Sys7 on the campus machines until the end of the summer, and is encouraging people in the dorms to do likewise, since the networked printers won't be set up with the Sys7 drivers until then. Please don't think there's nobody out here without 7.0! -- /============================================================================\ | Francis Stracke | My opinions are my own. I don't steal them.| | Department of Mathematics |=============================================| | University of Chicago | What do you get if you multiply 6 by 9? | | francis@zaphod.uchicago.edu | --Ultimate Question | \============================================================================/
dik@cwi.nl (Dik T. Winter) (05/22/91)
In article <3566@charon.cwi.nl> dik@cwi.nl (Dik T. Winter) writes: > In article <264401.2837F1C1@cmhgate.FIDONET.ORG> Adam.Frix@p18.f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Adam Frix) writes: > > kik@wjh12.harvard.edu (Ken Kreshtool) writes: > > KK> Not that anyone who reads this is going to be using System 6.0.x > > KK> anymore by next week, though... > > Oh, there'll be one or two of us holdouts... > > > Yup. Considering I am still using 4.1 or thereabouts.... I ought to qualify this. Just this evening I did use 6.0.3 some hours. But I am fine again, currently using 4.1 (yes, my system is 200K). And some weeks ago I needed 1.1g, so I did use it, worked fine (although it was the Banana variant, I have the original also somewhere). Why did I need 1.1g? I needed a 800k MFS floppy. Saves 3Kb over an HFS floppy. Can be a lifesaver. (Trivia question. How do you create a double sided MFS floppy?) -- dik t. winter, cwi, amsterdam, nederland dik@cwi.nl
torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie) (05/22/91)
dik@cwi.nl (Dik T. Winter) writes: >(Trivia question. How do you create a double sided MFS floppy?) Hold down the Option key as you choose Erase Disk, if I recall correctly. I had to do that once when I wanted a program on an 800K disk, which assumed all its files were at the root level, and didn't understand folders... -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Evan Torrie. Stanford University, Class of 199? torrie@cs.stanford.edu "Lay me place and bake me pie, I'm starving for me gravy... Leave my shoes and door unlocked, I might just slip away - hey - just for the day."
russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto) (05/23/91)
In article <3568@charon.cwi.nl> dik@cwi.nl (Dik T. Winter) writes: >(Trivia question. How do you create a double sided MFS floppy?) Depends on your system version. On some, holding down various option keys would do it (and create a HFS 400K floppy too.). I believe formatting an 800K disk as HFS, switching to an old System version, and Erasing the 800K disk will also work on a Mac Plus. -- Matthew T. Russotto russotto@eng.umd.edu russotto@wam.umd.edu .sig under construction, like the rest of this campus.