Leo.Bores@p25.f15.n114.z1.fidonet.org (Leo Bores) (05/24/91)
Wherefore rejoice? Amid all the hulabaloo, shouting, brass bands and oratory -
let us pause and reflect. Let us ask the question asked 130 years ago before
the South fired on Fort Sumpter: "Do you really want to do this?" Let us not
get carried away by slogans such as:"Studly 7"; "7 Rules!"; or images of the
numeral 7.0 carved into a rock face. I have on my desk a large piece of granite
serving as a paper weight. The problem is, that rock would not withstand a
sneeze or a cough for the simple reason that it is a "movie rock" - it only
looks like a rock, in fact it floats. Please remember that this new system is
brought to you by one of the flakiest companies in Christendom (or anywhere
else) that cannot decide how it should be organized and that pontificates rules
it repeatedly breaks.
Are you a masochist? Have you run the Incompatibilty Checker yet? Notice the
name. I got a list as long as my arm which included most of my favorite
utilities and a large portion of my most used applications. These are listed in
the report as "must upgrade". It may be true that many of these utilities are
"not needed in system 7 (I only have 3 of these listed) and that if you have
none of these, system 7 won't give you any trouble. I submit that if you don't
use these utilities - you probably also don't need system 7. Those of us who
do, are going to be the most affected by this new system - which by the way is
now at 7.1? Even the newest version of Hypercard can't hack it - you "must
upgrade" to version 2.1 - and you can't get it on any BBS service. Whatever
happened to "guaranteed" compatibility with earlier systems?
I've called many of the companies involved - all of them complain that Apple
was changing things up to the last minute and that any upgrade will come
anywhere from 2 weeks to several months from now - which is probably a
blessing. Also - some of the upgrades are pricey. Even at $10-15, you're
talking big bucks in short order. So what to do? Well, look again at the list
of "goodies" that you get with 7 and decide whether you really need virtual
memory or aliases or another version of multifinder or publishing/subscribing,
etc. I could use most of those capabilities and will eventually change - but
not yet and not soon because if I did, it appears that I'd get nothing done.
System 6.0.7 breaks enough as it is.
Studly 7? More like Dudly 7!
Leo Bores, M.D.
--
Uucp: ...{gatech,ames,rutgers}!ncar!asuvax!stjhmc!15.25!Leo.Bores
Internet: Leo.Bores@p25.f15.n114.z1.fidonet.orgjkc@Apple.COM (John Kevin Calhoun) (05/24/91)
In article <11949.283C9CB3@stjhmc.fidonet.org> Leo.Bores@p25.f15.n114.z1.fidonet.org (Leo Bores) writes: >Have you run the Incompatibilty Checker yet? [stuff deleted] >Even the newest version of Hypercard can't hack it - you "must upgrade" >to version 2.1 - and you can't get it on any BBS service. Let's talk facts. HyperCard 2.0v2, released six months ago, is "mostly compatible" with System 7.0. When I run the Compatibility Checker, it says Item Your Checked Version Status Notes ------------------------ ------- ------------- --------- HyperCard 2.0v2 Mostly comp. 2.1 RI The "RI" means "When you upgrade to System 7, replace this item with the version on the System 7 installation disks (or on one of the other disks) included with your upgrade materials." HyperCard 2.1, released two weeks ago, is "fully compatible" with 7.0. It's included in the System 7.0 Personal Upgrade Kit and the Group Upgrade Kit. Furthermore, if you're a registered user of HyperCard 2.0v2, Claris will send you 2.1 at no charge at your request. However, as you pointed out, it's not available for downloading. Here are the known incompatibilities between HyperCard 2.0v2 and System 7.0. They have all been fixed in HyperCard 2.1. - When you ask for the names of the system Help or Application menus from HyperTalk, you get indecipherable strings. - "the menus" doesn't include the system Help and Application menus. - When you launch HyperCard and it can't find the Home stack, you must select a Home stack from a standard file dialog. If the stack you select can't be opened (this can happen if it has already been opened with write permission by another application) HyperCard will freeze the machine. - If there are no user menus, the System 7 Help menu disappears when the userLevel changes. It comes back if a user menu is created from a script. - The HyperTalk commands that refer to files don't work with alias files. Kevin Calhoun jkc@apple.com
gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu (Garance A. Drosehn) (05/25/91)
Leo.Bores@p25.f15.n114.z1.fidonet.org (Leo Bores) writes: > Wherefore rejoice? Amid all the hulabaloo, shouting, brass bands and oratory > let us pause and reflect. Let us ask the question asked 130 years ago before > the South fired on Fort Sumpter: "Do you really want to do this?" [etc] Well, to answer the question in the subject, I personally am having fun with system 7. I do have things setup so I can bounce back to system 6.0.7 easily, for whatever things which do not work with system 7. I hate bouncing back to system 6.0.7 though, I'm getting used to the features of system 7 very quickly. I have now paused and reflected on the matter based on your article. I am annoyed that I need to get a new version of MPW. I am annoyed that I need to get a new version of Hypercard. I do find myself thinking about buying 4 more meg of RAM for my Mac IIci. All that said, it's still true that I'm having fun with system 7, and very much prefer it over system 6.0.7. I only use system 6.0.7 if I have to, and never use it because I want to. - - - - - - - - Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@rpi.edu or gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu ITS Systems Programmer (handles NeXT-type mail) Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy NY USA
jackb@MDI.COM (Jack Brindle) (05/25/91)
In article <11949.283C9CB3@stjhmc.fidonet.org> Leo.Bores@p25.f15.n114.z1.fidonet.org (Leo Bores) writes: >Wherefore rejoice? Amid all the hulabaloo, shouting, brass bands and oratory - >let us pause and reflect. Let us ask the question asked 130 years ago before >the South fired on Fort Sumpter: "Do you really want to do this?" Let us not >get carried away by slogans such as:"Studly 7"; "7 Rules!"; or images of the > ... > >Studly 7? More like Dudly 7! > >Leo Bores, M.D. With comments like this, and the actions these folks take every day, its no wonder that Engineers are far more professional than doctors. Rather than find a solution I guess it is just easier to gripe. Just don't come near MY body... Jack Brindle
bc@Apple.COM (bill coderre) (05/26/91)
Although I must admit I was impressed by Leo Bores' oratory, I do think his argument doesn't bear up under scrutiny. Presumably you bought the 10 or 15 things that need updating to be System 7 compatible. I somehow cannot imagine that you would suddenly be unable to afford the update fees. In many cases, updates are free, and in most others, the updates are pretty darn low-cost. No one makes money on updates. It costs a lot to make those floppies, hire people to mail them, write documentation, and -- hell -- develop the software and test it. If you bought Hypercard 2.0, you'll get 2.1v2 FREE. You don't even have to do anything. (And, to be honest, this Claris upgrade is better than most others: the bugs that it fixes are tiny, and the new features it adds -- Apple Events in your stacks, for example -- are huge.) I know that Apple worked very hard to be compatible with as many existing apps as possible, and that they even worked with developers to help them fix their code. Almost all of my favorite apps work just fine -- including some that I wrote. That's pretty darn compatible. I also know that Apple worked extra hard to make System 7 compatible across the entire line of Macintoshes -- including MacPlusses that were upgraded from Mac128K's. These machines are still 100% viable, and indeed work better than ever with this new software. That's also pretty darn compatible. I agree, it sucks big rocks when upgrading the system software causes problems with your programs. But that problem has been happening ever since the beginning of computers, and will always be a problem. I do understand that this upgrade is much harder than previous ones. Unfortunately, there simply was no other choice. Luckily, the payoff for making the switch is huge: vastly improved "workgroup" potential with the network features and publish/subscribe; a better type model that gives high-quality type on all devices; virtual memory that performs better than most people thought possible; and a greatly enhanced user interface. With Apple Events, applications can finally cooperate, not just co-operate. And future additions to System 7 promise even more. But most important, System 7 provides a solid foundation for future advances, and a coherent architecture for the future of Macintosh. That's really the best payoff of all. bill coderre who works for, but does not legally speak for "one of the flakiest companies in christendom"
chai@hawk.cs.ukans.edu (Ian Chai) (05/27/91)
In article <72gh!q-@rpi.edu> gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu (Garance A. Drosehn) writes: >system 7. I do have things setup so I can bounce back to system 6.0.7 easily, >for whatever things which do not work with system 7. I hate bouncing back to >system 6.0.7 though, I'm getting used to the features of system 7 very quickly. Yeah, I've things set up to bounce back to 6.0.x, too (in my case, 6.0.5) and I've found myself not needing to do it near as often as I thought I would, given the Compatibility checker list. The one thing I *really* miss is DfaultD... especially with the new SFgetfile SFputfile structure, I *really* need it! More power to ya, Jon Gotow! [1] May you have sys7-compatible DfaultD ready before I go crazy bouncing up and down my directories... Ian [1] Jon's the author of DfaultD -- Ian Chai Internet: chai@cs.ukans.edu Bitnet: 665instr@ukanvax I don't believe in flaming. If I appear to be flaming, either (a) it's an illusion due to the lack of nonverbal cues or (b) my sprinkler system has suffered a momentary glitch, so just ignore me until it's fixed.