jg23+@andrew.cmu.edu (John Robert Gray) (07/27/90)
Hi, Does any one know if the new system 7.0 alphla support mutlifinder and fileserver, like I can run my fileserver and still do my work. And some of my friends told me it crash a lot, is that true? And they also said it will take up 4meg of my ram. Is system 7.0 usable? Thanx John
dwal@midway.uchicago.edu (David Walton) (07/28/90)
In article <wafpgKm00VIC88IENR@andrew.cmu.edu> jg23+@andrew.cmu.edu (John Robert Gray) writes: > > Hi, Does any one know if the new system 7.0 alphla support mutlifinder >and fileserver, like I can run my fileserver and still do my work. And >some of my friends told me it crash a lot, is that true? And they also >said it will take up 4meg of my ram. Is system 7.0 usable? System 7.0 ALPHA certainly crashes a lot; that's why it's alpha software, not release. By the time the release version gets out, I'm sure that most of the bugs will be long gone. (I hope so; the alpha version has enough debug code to make it impossibly slow...:-) You will be able to use FileShare (personal AppleShare) and still use your Macintosh. There's a control that allows you to specify how much processing priority is given to you and how much is given to users of your server. In general, though, I doubt that you'd want to use FileShare as a permanent file server (especially if you want to use the Macintosh at the same time). For a permanent file server, it's probably best to buy the real AppleShare, especially if users will be accessing it frequently. FileShare was made for limited data sharing between users on a local network. >Thanx > >John -- David Walton Internet: dwal@midway.uchicago.edu University of Chicago { Any opinions found herein are mine, not } Computing Organizations { those of my employers (or anybody else). }
cory@three.MV.COM (Cory Kempf) (08/01/90)
jg23+@andrew.cmu.edu (John Robert Gray) writes: > Hi, Does any one know if the new system 7.0 alphla support mutlifinder >and fileserver, like I can run my fileserver and still do my work. And >some of my friends told me it crash a lot, is that true? And they also >said it will take up 4meg of my ram. Is system 7.0 usable? Bear in mind that the current version that Apple has allowed outside is still in development. It was released so developers could test their software, and so they could write system 7 studly software. In system 7, there is no single finder. The world is multifinder. Also, Appleshare server software is built in -- you can publish your disks over the network similar to how tops now does. Yes, system 7 does crash a lot it is *ALPHA* aftet all. According to the official word, system 7 requires 2 MB. +C -- Cory Kempf I do speak for the company (sometimes). The Enigami Co. 603 883 2474 email: cory@three.mv.com, harvard!zinn!three!cory
clubmac@runxtsa.runx.oz.au (Club Mac, Australia's Largest Mac Users Group) (08/03/90)
In article <397@three.MV.COM> cory@three.MV.COM (Cory Kempf) writes: >In system 7, there is no single finder. The world is multifinder. Also, >Appleshare server software is built in -- you can publish your disks over >the network similar to how tops now does. Yes, system 7 does crash a lot >it is *ALPHA* aftet all. According to the official word, system 7 >requires 2 MB. How can that be, when System 7.0b22 has been floating around for a couple of weeks in the land of wonder... the land down under? Regards, _____________________________________________________________________________ | Jason Haines, Vice-President | | Club Mac - Australia's Largest Macintosh Users Group | | G.P.O. Box 4523, Sydney, New South Wales, AUSTRALIA, 2001 | | | | INTERNET:clubmac@runxtsa.runx.oz.au UUCP: uunet!runxtsa.runx.oz.au!clubmac | | ACSNet: clubmac@runxtsa.runx.oz | | | | Phone: (02) 743-6929 Club Mac BBS: (02) 907-9198 | | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | | "This space for rent" - Quotes Are Us | |_____________________________________________________________________________|
chewy@apple.com (Paul Snively) (08/04/90)
In article <2087@runxtsa.runx.oz.au> clubmac@runxtsa.runx.oz.au (Club Mac, Australia's Largest Mac Users Group) writes: > In article <397@three.MV.COM> cory@three.MV.COM (Cory Kempf) writes: > >In system 7, there is no single finder. The world is multifinder. Also, > >Appleshare server software is built in -- you can publish your disks over > >the network similar to how tops now does. Yes, system 7 does crash a lot > >it is *ALPHA* aftet all. According to the official word, system 7 > >requires 2 MB. > > How can that be, when System 7.0b22 has been floating around for a couple of > weeks in the land of wonder... the land down under? Easy. Someone is playing games with you poor folks. The current version of System 7.0, as of this writing, is System 7.0a12. __________________________________________________________________________ Paul Snively Macintosh Developer Technical Support Apple Computer, Inc. chewy@apple.com Just because I work for Apple Computer, Inc. doesn't mean that I believe what they believe, or vice-versa. __________________________________________________________________________
dwal@ellis.uchicago.edu (David Walton) (09/04/90)
In article <2087@runxtsa.runx.oz.au> clubmac@runxtsa.runx.oz.au (Club Mac, Australia's Largest Mac Users Group) writes: >In article <397@three.MV.COM> cory@three.MV.COM (Cory Kempf) writes: >>In system 7, there is no single finder. The world is multifinder. Also, >>Appleshare server software is built in -- you can publish your disks over >>the network similar to how tops now does. Yes, system 7 does crash a lot >>it is *ALPHA* aftet all. According to the official word, system 7 >>requires 2 MB. > >How can that be, when System 7.0b22 has been floating around for a couple of >weeks in the land of wonder... the land down under? The version which Cory is referring to is the one that was distributed in May on the "Big Bang" CD, which is version 7.0a9. Have you actually _seen_ 7.0b22, or are you quoting a rumour? I'd heard that there was an early beta (b5 or so) but nothing later than that, and I had not heard that anybody outside Apple (except for the odd minor deity or two) had actually seen it. -- David Walton Internet: dwal@midway.uchicago.edu University of Chicago { Any opinions found herein are mine, not } Computing Organizations { those of my employers (or anybody else). }
clubmac@runxtsa.runx.oz.au (Australia's Largest Mac Users Group) (09/06/90)
In article <1990Sep3.201953.20513@midway.uchicago.edu> dwal@ellis.uchicago.edu (David Walton) writes: >Have you actually _seen_ 7.0b22, or are you quoting a rumour? I'd >heard that there was an early beta (b5 or so) but nothing later than >that, and I had not heard that anybody outside Apple (except for the >odd minor deity or two) had actually seen it. It seems that some people I spoke to from Apple Australia had it arse backwards, and confused 7.0d22 as being beta... It is a pity that Apple sacked so many of its more intelligent personnel... Jason
Mac.Nut@f75.n343.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mac Nut) (12/10/90)
Anyone know when 7.0 is scheduled for release? And what is the latest beta version out now. Thanks, Ed -- Mac Nut via cmhGate - Net 226 fido<=>uucp gateway Col, OH UUCP: ...!osu-cis!n8emr!cmhgate!343!75!Mac.Nut INET: Mac.Nut@f75.n343.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Greg@AppleLink.apple.com (Greg Marriott) (12/17/90)
In article <114780.276BD061@cmhgate.FIDONET.ORG> Mac.Nut@f75.n343.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mac Nut) writes: > Anyone know when 7.0 is scheduled for release? Yes. > And what is the latest beta version out now? Beta 1 was shipped far and wide on CD. Greg Marriott Blue Meanie Apple Computer, Inc.
daven@svc.portal.com (12/19/90)
In article <11542@goofy.Apple.COM> Greg@AppleLink.apple.com (Greg Marriott) writes: > In article <114780.276BD061@cmhgate.FIDONET.ORG> > Mac.Nut@f75.n343.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mac Nut) writes: > > Anyone know when 7.0 is scheduled for release? > Yes. > Greg, nothing like begging for the next question, eh? So... ya feeling brave enough to tell us what that release data might be? No? Oh well, I won't hold it against ya! ;-) -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Newman | daven@svc.portal.com | AppleLink: D0025 Sofware Ventures Corp. | AOL: MicroPhone | CIS: 76004,2161 Berkeley, CA 94705 | WELL: tinman@well.sf.ca.us | (415) 644-3232
bin@primate.wisc.edu (Brain in Neutral) (12/21/90)
From article <1990Dec19.022823.9255@svc.portal.com>, by daven@svc.portal.com: | In article <11542@goofy.Apple.COM> Greg@AppleLink.apple.com (Greg Marriott) writes: |> In article <114780.276BD061@cmhgate.FIDONET.ORG> |> Mac.Nut@f75.n343.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mac Nut) writes: |> > Anyone know when 7.0 is scheduled for release? |> Yes. | Greg, nothing like begging for the next question, eh? So... ya feeling brave | enough to tell us what that release data might be? The answer is probably Real Soon Now, I imagine. -- Paul DuBois dubois@primate.wisc.edu
sandy@snoopy.cs.umass.edu (& Wise) (02/21/91)
> From what I gather, system 7.0 is not > made for the lower macs like classic, > se,pluses...etc. Is this true??? This is an old rumor... I am just back from an Apple 7.0 demo... The answer remains: "System 7.0 requires 2M RAM and a hard disk. Virtual memory requires an MMU." This means a 2M plus will have all 7.0 features except VM. A 2M Mac with 7.0 will have about 750K of free memory to run applications (i.e. the same as a 1M Mac under 6.0). /s -- Alexander Erskine Wise /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Software Development Laboratory /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ WISE@CS.UMASS.EDU /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\ This situation calls for large amounts of unadulterated CHOCOLATE! /\/\/\
roy@phri.nyu.edu (Roy Smith) (02/21/91)
sandy@snoopy.cs.umass.edu (& Wise) writes: > A 2M Mac with 7.0 will have about 750K of free memory to run applications > (i.e.the same as a 1M Mac under 6.0). Reality check time. You're saying that 6.0 is 250k and 7.0 is 1250k? A factor of 5 difference? Is this possible? It is hard to imagine even the most rampant orgy of adding features and increasing buffer and cache sizes resulting in a factor of 5 difference in system size. -- Roy Smith, Public Health Research Institute 455 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016 roy@alanine.phri.nyu.edu -OR- {att,cmcl2,rutgers,hombre}!phri!roy "Arcane? Did you say arcane? It wouldn't be Unix if it wasn't arcane!"
bskendig@set.Princeton.EDU (Brian Kendig) (02/21/91)
In article <1991Feb21.045213.4108@midway.uchicago.edu> dwal@ellis.uchicago.edu (David Walton) writes: >In article <1991Feb20.214745.24001@phri.nyu.edu> roy@phri.nyu.edu (Roy Smith) writes: >>sandy@snoopy.cs.umass.edu (& Wise) writes: >>> A 2M Mac with 7.0 will have about 750K of free memory to run applications >>> (i.e.the same as a 1M Mac under 6.0). >> >> Reality check time. You're saying that 6.0 is 250k and 7.0 is >>1250k? A factor of 5 difference? Is this possible? It is hard to imagine >>even the most rampant orgy of adding features and increasing buffer and >>cache sizes resulting in a factor of 5 difference in system size. The Apple engineers were having rampant orgies. I have a Mac SE with 2.5M of memory; right now the System is taking up 839k and the Finder 385k, leaving 1336k free to play around with. This is pretty much in line with the estimate of leaving 750k free on a 2M machine. (And there seems to be a bug in 7.0b1 whereby my System keeps gradually growing, until after a few hours of work it has taken up all but a small portion of the free memory...) But the stuff they added is *nice* -- and, keep in mind that there's probably still some debugging code being loaded into the machine, too. By the time that System 7.0 is released (late April?), the engineers will probably have been able to put it on a diet. << Brian >> | Brian S. Kendig \ Macintosh | Engineering, | bskendig | | Computer Engineering |\ Thought | USS Enterprise | @phoenix.Princeton.EDU | Princeton University |_\ Police | -= NCC-1701-D =- | @PUCC.BITNET | "It's not that I don't have the work to *do* -- I don't do the work I *have*."
awessels@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Allen Wessels) (02/22/91)
In article <1991Feb20.214745.24001@phri.nyu.edu> roy@phri.nyu.edu (Roy Smith) writes: > Reality check time. You're saying that 6.0 is 250k and 7.0 is >1250k? A factor of 5 difference? Is this possible? It is hard to imagine >even the most rampant orgy of adding features and increasing buffer and >cache sizes resulting in a factor of 5 difference in system size. It isn't hard to imagine at all. I run with 30-40 inits that easily take up a couple of meg. ATM chews up a big hunk, and I'd guess True Type will also. I don't even run a cache, but I wouldn't wonder if 7.0 runs one as the default. I also wouldn't be surprised if 7.0 fixed some of the problems we normally fool with the heap size to deal with. If you plan on moving to 7.0, think about upgrading your RAM to the next increment. If you're maxing out 4 meg on a Plus, SE, or Classic, think about getting a new machine, or foregoing 7.0
sandy@dino.cs.umass.edu (Sandy Wise) (02/22/91)
In article <1991Feb20.214745.24001@phri.nyu.edu> roy@phri.nyu.edu (Roy Smith) writes: I wrote: > A 2M Mac with 7.0 will have about 750K of free memory to run applications > (i.e.the same as a 1M Mac under 6.0). Reality check time. You're saying that 6.0 is 250k and 7.0 is 1250k? A factor of 5 difference? Is this possible? I don't know. Seems pretty odd, but it *is* what the guy from Apple said... He also said there was no way to put 7.0 on a floppy, and since the SuperDrive is standard in the Apple lineup, it does lend credence to the bloat theory... Some WAGS (on how to eat an extra Meg in 7.0): 32K for Disk Cache (you can't turn it off under system 7). 200K for Finder (6.0 is 140K, let's add some size for all them new features... & MultiFinder is always on). 32K for TrueType (its supposed to be simpler than ATM) 100K for the font cache (I assume TrueType needs to cache rendered fonts like ATM, and I use 96K for ATM...) AppleEvents, IAC, EditionManager, and HelpManager will all eat up RAM... another 100K? 200K? How big is something like TOPS? The built-in "Personal AppleShare" might be about the same size... Of course, if someone with a Beta can size their system folder and report it to us... Take maybe 1/3 off that to remove debugging code that won't be in the release, it might give us an idea... /s -- Alexander Erskine Wise /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Software Development Laboratory /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ WISE@CS.UMASS.EDU /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\ This situation calls for large amounts of unadulterated CHOCOLATE! /\/\/\
gavin@ramsay.UUCP (Gavin Eadie) (02/22/91)
In article <SANDY.91Feb21151144@dino.cs.umass.edu>, sandy@dino.cs.umass.edu (Sandy Wise) writes: > said... He also said there was no way to put 7.0 on a floppy, and > since the SuperDrive is standard in the Apple lineup, it does lend > credence to the bloat theory... > I put System 7.0b1 on a floppy and it boots and works fine. I've not tried it with b4 yet ... -------------------------------------------------------------------- Gavin Eadie Ramsay Consulting 507 Second Street (313) 665-2819 Ann Arbor, MI 48103
john@newave.UUCP (John A. Weeks III) (02/22/91)
In article <12170@ucrmath.ucr.edu> kychen@ucrmath.ucr.edu (kathy chen) writes: > From what I gather, system 7.0 is not made for the lower macs like classic, > se,pluses...etc. Is this true??? No. System 7.0 is for all Macs. There will be some features that will not be available without a 68030 or a 68020+PMMU (virtual memory), and System 7.0 will require 2 Meg of memory. The only Macs that will have trouble are the Mac 128 and the Mac 512. But most of those machines were left behind when HFS was introduced.... > If not, would the lower macs be stuck with the system 6.0.7? BTW, most Macs should not use 6.0.7 according to what I have read in MacWeek. Only use 6.0.7 if you need it for a IIsi, LC, or Classic. (There might be other reasons to run 6.0.7 that I am not aware of.) -john- -- =============================================================================== John A. Weeks III (612) 942-6969 john@newave.mn.org NeWave Communications ...uunet!rosevax!tcnet!wd0gol!newave!john ===============================================================================
gaines@mars.njit.edu (Starman) (02/22/91)
>Of course, if someone with a Beta can size their system folder and >report it to us... Take maybe 1/3 off that to remove debugging code >that won't be in the release, it might give us an idea... > >Alexander Erskine Wise /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Software Development Laboratory >/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ WISE@CS.UMASS.EDU /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ OK...here's my System folder size: 5.8 Megs. The finder is 383K. This includes DAs and INITs. The System itself is 1.8 meg. There you have it. =========================================================================== "They can fly rings around the moon, | Mike but we're years ahead of them on the highway" | gaines@mars.njit.edu =========================================================================== System 7 on an 800K floppy? HA! ===========================================================================
macman@wpi.WPI.EDU (Chris Silverberg) (02/23/91)
In article <44532@ut-emx.uucp> awessels@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Allen Wessels) writes: >If you plan on moving to 7.0, think about upgrading your RAM to the next >increment. If you're maxing out 4 meg on a Plus, SE, or Classic, think about >getting a new machine, or foregoing 7.0 I think that's a little overstated. Many inits that are needed under System 6.0 are not necessary under 7, since the features are built in. Version 7.0b1 also uses more memory than the release version will... memory usage has been reduced in b4. For me anyway, I find that I am not using much more memory for my system and finder than when I was running 6.0.x. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Chris Silverberg INTERNET: macman@wpi.wpi.edu Worcester Polytechnic Institute Main Street USA 508-832-7725 (sysop) America Online: TfChris WMUG BBS 508-832-5844 (sysop)
alexr@apple.com (Alexander M. Rosenberg) (02/23/91)
In article <SANDY.91Feb21151144@dino.cs.umass.edu> sandy@dino.cs.umass.edu (Sandy Wise) writes: > I don't know. Seems pretty odd, but it *is* what the guy from Apple > said... He also said there was no way to put 7.0 on a floppy, and > since the SuperDrive is standard in the Apple lineup, it does lend > credence to the bloat theory... > The Installer will fit it onto an FDHD floppy (1.44MB). You don't get many optional things. (Like AppleShare, the Chooser, etc.) > Some WAGS (on how to eat an extra Meg in 7.0): > 32K for Disk Cache (you can't turn it off under system 7). > 200K for Finder (6.0 is 140K, let's add some size for all them > new features... & MultiFinder is always on). > 32K for TrueType (its supposed to be simpler than ATM) > 100K for the font cache (I assume TrueType needs to cache > rendered fonts like ATM, and I use 96K for ATM...) > Finder is closer to 350K. (Not sure exactly.) > How big is something like TOPS? The built-in "Personal AppleShare" > might be about the same size... FileShare is not loaded unless it is turned on. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Alexander M. Rosenberg - INTERNET: alexr@apple.com - Yoyodyne - - 330 1/2 Waverley St. - UUCP:ucbvax!apple!alexr - Propulsion - - Palo Alto, CA 94301 - - Systems - - (415) 329-8463 - Nobody is my employer so - :-) - - (408) 974-3110 - nobody cares what I say. - -
lsr@Apple.COM (Larry Rosenstein) (02/23/91)
In article <SANDY.91Feb21151144@dino.cs.umass.edu> sandy@dino.cs.umass.edu (Sandy Wise) writes: > >Of course, if someone with a Beta can size their system folder and >report it to us... Take maybe 1/3 off that to remove debugging code (Sizing the System Folder won't tell you anything about how much RAM the system uses.) Using 7.0b4 on a Mac IIfx, 24-bit memory mode, 16K cache (the minimum), no INITs loaded (reboot with Shift key down), about 6-7 font families, the System Software took up about 1100K. In 7.0b4 the memory allocated to the Finder is included in the System Software category. -- Larry Rosenstein, Object Specialist Apple Computer, Inc. 20525 Mariani Ave, MS 3-PK Cupertino, CA 95014 AppleLink:Rosenstein1 domain:lsr@Apple.COM UUCP:{sun,voder,nsc,decwrl}!apple!lsr
bskendig@dew.Princeton.EDU (Brian Kendig) (02/24/91)
In article <661@newave.UUCP> john@newave.mn.org (John A. Weeks III) writes: >BTW, most Macs should not use 6.0.7 according to what I have read in >MacWeek. Only use 6.0.7 if you need it for a IIsi, LC, or Classic. >(There might be other reasons to run 6.0.7 that I am not aware of.) Huh? System 6.0.7 fixes lots of bugs, and also includes the new Sound Manager to boot! (Which, by the way, HyperCard 2.0 and up requires.) What did MacLeak have to say about 6.0.7? << Brian >> | Brian S. Kendig \ Macintosh | Engineering, | bskendig | | Computer Engineering |\ Thought | USS Enterprise | @phoenix.Princeton.EDU | Princeton University |_\ Police | -= NCC-1701-D =- | @PUCC.BITNET | "It's not that I don't have the work to *do* -- I don't do the work I *have*."
macgyver@skink.cis.ohio-state.edu (wilson m liaw) (02/24/91)
In article <6574@idunno.Princeton.EDU> bskendig@dew.Princeton.EDU (Brian Kendig) writes: >In article <661@newave.UUCP> john@newave.mn.org (John A. Weeks III) writes: >>BTW, most Macs should not use 6.0.7 according to what I have read in >>MacWeek. Only use 6.0.7 if you need it for a IIsi, LC, or Classic. >>(There might be other reasons to run 6.0.7 that I am not aware of.) > >Huh? System 6.0.7 fixes lots of bugs, and also includes the new Sound >Manager to boot! (Which, by the way, HyperCard 2.0 and up requires.) HyperCard 2.0 only requires 6.0.5 Mac -- Wilson MacGyver | In every heart, there is a time machine Internet:macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu | if you believe in your memeory. Trace =====================================| every place you've been, you know what Disclaimer:All opinions are mine only| it means. -Encouragement from Martika
bskendig@dry.Princeton.EDU (Brian Kendig) (02/25/91)
In article <18336@imag.imag.fr> gourdol@imag.fr (Gourdol Arnaud) writes: >Another Urban Legend. >Always use latest system software. Another Urban Legend Debunked: Don't always use the latest system software just because it's the `latest'. >New versions are issued when they are absolutely necessary, > that it when machines whit new capabilities are commercialized or >when common bugs are corrected. >But they also often correct minor bugs. >So always use latest system software. Sometimes the bugs that are fixed are ones that you would never come up against in a million years (such as the deadly Appletalk bug in 6.0.6 -- if you never use Appletalk, then 6.0.6 is as good as 6.0.7), while at the same time, new and more serious bugs are introduced. Look at System 6.0.7: it includes a new Sound Manager and a better way of reporting system errors, but many people claim that it crashes far more often than 6.0.5. Would you rather have a shiny new Sound Manager, or one that works with the programs you use? I've worked with several companies that decide not to update their Macintosh system software simply because there's no need to, and things work fine as it is. They run System 6.0.2 and LaserWriter 5.2, and they're peachy. To go through and find and upgrade every Macintosh in the facility would be too time-comsuming, and is bound to introduce problems here and there because every machine is configured differently. So, in short, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." I notice that your article isn't a followup to anything. Why did you post this? Am I missing your point? Saying `always upgrade to the latest system software' sounds kinda like saying `always remember to look both ways before crossing the street.' >BTW, I think that HC2.0 works under 6.0.5 but may have >problem with sounds. So that's why using HC2.0 with 6.0.7 is better. HyperCard 2.0 uses the System Seven Sound Manager, which is also present in System 6.0.7. If you run HyperCard 2.0 on anything prior to 6.0.7, and it tries to make any sound at all, it will most likely crash, because it's calling routines which just aren't there. Either turn your sound off, or just use 6.0.7 with HyperCard 2.0 and up, or get used to having your Macintosh make cute little buzzing sounds and scribbling all sorts of really interesting random patterns on the screen. << Brian >> | Brian S. Kendig \ Macintosh | Engineering, | bskendig | | Computer Engineering |\ Thought | USS Enterprise | @phoenix.Princeton.EDU | Princeton University |_\ Police | -= NCC-1701-D =- | @PUCC.BITNET | "It's not that I don't have the work to *do* -- I don't do the work I *have*."
jo1m+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeffrey T. Oplinger) (02/25/91)
System 6.0.7 fixes many bugs from system 6.0.6, which was the original
system for the new macs (IIsi, lc, classic). The new sound manager is
actually incompatible with some existing programs with sound (not too
many). I think MacWeek recommended 6.05 for the "older" macs (+, SE,
SE/30, IIcx, etc.), and 6.07 only if you have HyperCard 2 or one of the
newer macs that requires 6.0.7.
-- jeffgourdol@imag.imag.fr (Gourdol Arnaud) (02/25/91)
In article <6602@idunno.Princeton.EDU> bskendig@dry.Princeton.EDU (Brian Kendig) writes: >In article <18336@imag.imag.fr> gourdol@imag.fr (Gourdol Arnaud) writes: >>Another Urban Legend. >>Always use latest system software. >So, in short, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." Sure, I agree with you on this. Personnaly I didn't upgrade to 6.0.7 until I had a good reason for. And that was the new sound manager which allows Finder Sounds to play asynchronous sounds (which is really great). What I was "fighting" against is the myth that new system versions must be used ONLY with newer computers they were made for. Many people believe this. And this can be very annoying for customer support. Sometimes, a bug in a program is due to a bug in the system software (of course, not that often, but anyway). Using the latest system version is less trouble making from customer support point of view. However, it's true that sometimes Apple make big mistakes that make the new system software less reliable, as the AppleTalk bug in 6.0.6. So, wait a few weeks before upgrading. It's rare that new system software bring new bugs that don"t get corrected. I heard about the problems with the 6.0.7, but I heard them from people with a Mac IIsi (problems with the mouse mainly). So I would rather suspect the hardware design than the software. I also understand that it costs money in big organizations to updgrade all their Mac to the latest system software and printer drivers. >I notice that your article isn't a followup to anything. Why did you >post this? Am I missing your point? Saying `always upgrade to the >latest system software' sounds kinda like saying `always remember to >look both ways before crossing the street.' Ahah! Then, you admit it's safest ! :-) :-) Someone was talking about System 7 and wander if he should upgrade to it (when available, of course, if available some day...) or stuck with System 6. I hope everybody will upgrade to System 7. As a developer it would be really easier to make this assumption. Arnaud. -- /======================//==========================================/ / Arnaud Gourdol. // On the Netland: Gourdol@imag.fr / / // Via AppleLink: Gourdol@imag.fr@INTERNET# / /======================//==========================================/
eoliver@hcunix.haverford.edu (Erik Oliver) (02/26/91)
Where can those of us dumb enough to want to try 7.0 any version, get a hold of a copy of it. I mean I am into trashing my machine how about you? Download site would be appreciated. :-) Erik (e_oliver@acc.haverford.edu <-- internet address)
bskendig@bird.Princeton.EDU (Brian Kendig) (02/26/91)
In article <18349@imag.imag.fr> gourdol@imag.fr (Gourdol Arnaud) writes: >Someone was talking about System 7 and wander if he should >upgrade to it (when available, of course, if available some day...) >or stuck with System 6. >I hope everybody will upgrade to System 7. As a developer it would >be really easier to make this assumption. Devil's advocate here: You have a Macintosh Plus, one meg of memory, and lots of software programs that work just fine. You need to buy a widget program, and you have two options. One works with what you have now. The other requires that you go to the trouble of mail-ordering another meg of memory, installing it, and upgrading to system software that's going to slow down your machine and in the end actually give you _less_ memory for your other programs to work with than you've got now, and then you've got to go to the trouble of figuring out why you get these mysterious bus errors that you never got before you upgraded. Which software company gets your patronage? Remember: just because it would be nice for everybody to be running the same System, doesn't mean it'll ever really happen. << Brian >> | Brian S. Kendig \ Macintosh | Engineering, | bskendig | | Computer Engineering |\ Thought | USS Enterprise | @phoenix.Princeton.EDU | Princeton University |_\ Police | -= NCC-1701-D =- | @PUCC.BITNET | "It's not that I don't have the work to *do* -- I don't do the work I *have*."
morales@ohsu.edu (Walter Morales) (02/26/91)
I have been lloking for a while about the system 7's new features. Does anyone have a file which contains a brief or long description about the new system. Please send it to me at morales@ohsu.edu, it can be stuffed it or whatever way you want to send it.I use a MAC II CX. Thank you so much to whoever can help me. Walter.
bskendig@set.Princeton.EDU (Brian Kendig) (02/26/91)
In article <1991Feb26.021142.12660@ohsu.edu> morales@ohsu.edu (Walter Morales) writes: >I have been lloking for a while about the system 7's new features. Does anyone >have a file which contains a brief or long description about the new >system. Info from Apple on exactly that is available for anonymous ftp from apple.com in pub/dts/mac/sys.soft/ (files sys700-qa.txt and sys700-upd.txt), and from sumex in info-mac/apple/sys/ (files sys700-q+a.txt and sys700-upd.txt). It's a bit old, but it's still correct. << Brian >> | Brian S. Kendig \ Macintosh | Engineering, | bskendig | | Computer Engineering |\ Thought | USS Enterprise | @phoenix.Princeton.EDU | Princeton University |_\ Police | -= NCC-1701-D =- | @PUCC.BITNET | "It's not that I don't have the work to *do* -- I don't do the work I *have*."
dana@are.berkeley.edu (Dana E. Keil) (02/27/91)
jo1m+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeffrey T. Oplinger) writes: >System 6.0.7 fixes many bugs from system 6.0.6, which was the original >system for the new macs (IIsi, lc, classic). The new sound manager is >actually incompatible with some existing programs with sound (not too >many). I think MacWeek recommended 6.05 for the "older" macs (+, SE, >SE/30, IIcx, etc.), and 6.07 only if you have HyperCard 2 or one of the ^^^^^^^^^^^ >newer macs that requires 6.0.7. HyperCard 2 works with 6.0.5. -- Dana E. Keil Department of Agricultural and Resource Economics University of California, Berkeley dana@are.berkeley.edu
isr@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Michael S. Schechter - ISR group account) (03/20/91)
In article <18349@imag.imag.fr> gourdol@imag.fr (Gourdol Arnaud) writes: >In article <6602@idunno.Princeton.EDU> bskendig@dry.Princeton.EDU (Brian Kendig) writes: >>In article <18336@imag.imag.fr> gourdol@imag.fr (Gourdol Arnaud) writes: >>>Another Urban Legend. >>>Always use latest system software. >>So, in short, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." >Sure, I agree with you on this. >What I was "fighting" against is the myth that new system versions >must be used ONLY with newer computers they were made for. >Many people believe this. And this can be very annoying for >customer support. Sometimes, a bug in a program is due to a bug >in the system software (of course, not that often, but anyway). I've found far far more often that so-called "power-users" always want to have the latest, newest release of software, whether it's stable or not. And these "enthusiasts" are often highly vocal an infect other users with this desire. What this means from the support viewpoint (of LOCAL support where you have to support 50 applications, not just your own 4 or five) is that with EVERY minor change of system, new betas spread outward from the faculty Apple Associates, so within a couple of days half the people on our network are all running various mixed-up versions, and typically on machines that don't need the new ones. After enough crashes and rebuilds, people have learned not to do that and to let system upgrade/INIT/etc decisions be handled by professionals, not 'enthusiasts'. Apple itself, while they used to say always use the latest, doesn't anymore. According to what i've seen, here's apple's recomendation: (please correct me if your from apple) Classic,si,lc 6.0.7 Fx,ci,portable 6.0.5 cx,ii,iix,se,+ 6.0.4 se/30 6.0.3 Now if really supporting users, you know that you don't go and upgrade with every little change, becaus eyour just asking for trouble when some rarely-used but vital-to-operations program dies on you because of some obscure rare bug. Yes, 6.0.7 works fine on a ii, and we have it installed on one, but only because that's the machine that we prepare linotronic output on and we have to use it. Everything else uses 6.0.4 with no problem. (except for the ci's, si's, and portables). Why upgrade them when things work fine? So i can pay a couple hundred upgrade fees at 5-20 bucks a shot? and then find out that they're not avilible for half the apps anyway? -- InterNet:Mike_Schechter@isr.syr.edu BITNET: SENSORY@SUNRISE
resnick@cogsci.uiuc.edu (Pete Resnick) (03/20/91)
isr@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Michael S. Schechter - ISR group account) writes: > Apple itself, while they used to say always use the latest, >doesn't anymore. According to what i've seen, here's apple's >recomendation: (please correct me if your from apple) >Classic,si,lc 6.0.7 >Fx,ci,portable 6.0.5 >cx,ii,iix,se,+ 6.0.4 >se/30 6.0.3 *****FLAME ON***** OK, I call your hand. Who says this? Where? I wan't verbatim quote from *Apple* (NOT MACWEEK) which says anything like this. Every version quoted claims to make bug fixes on machines listed as needing a lower version. Does Apple just fix bugs on these systems for their health? This sounds like it is just rumor. I say again, as I've said before: almost all "bugs" that appear in Apple operating system software that is out for more than a week are usually bad programming on the part of application programmers and NOT MacOS bugs. If what you and others have been saying is, as I believe it to be, just rumors, I wish it would stop. If it is not, I want to see it in PRINT from Apple. Actually, I would like to see it in print from Apple either way. *****FLAME OFF***** pr -- Pete Resnick (...so what is a mojo, and why would one be rising?) Graduate assistant - Philosophy Department, Gregory Hall, UIUC System manager - Cognitive Science Group, Beckman Institute, UIUC Internet/ARPAnet/EDUnet : resnick@cogsci.uiuc.edu BITNET (if no other way) : FREE0285@UIUCVMD
resnick@cogsci.uiuc.edu (Pete Resnick) (03/20/91)
isr@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Michael S. Schechter - ISR group account) writes: > Why upgrade them when things work fine? >So i can pay a couple hundred upgrade fees at 5-20 bucks a shot? >and then find out that they're not avilible for half the apps anyway? If companies have bugs in their code which you have already payed for, you should be getting free upgrades to fix those bugs or drop the companies software and flame them on the net. Though I continue to use MS Word, because I do not have the money to invest in another good piece of software, I hope that people will remain aware that Microsoft is notorious for these kind of bugs and will not continue to use their software. I continue to call MS and complain. Maybe they will get the hint. pr -- Pete Resnick (...so what is a mojo, and why would one be rising?) Graduate assistant - Philosophy Department, Gregory Hall, UIUC System manager - Cognitive Science Group, Beckman Institute, UIUC Internet/ARPAnet/EDUnet : resnick@cogsci.uiuc.edu BITNET (if no other way) : FREE0285@UIUCVMD
bskendig@dae.Princeton.EDU (Brian Kendig) (03/20/91)
In article <1991Mar19.163024.26790@rodan.acs.syr.edu> isr@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Michael S. Schechter - ISR group account) writes: >In article <18349@imag.imag.fr> gourdol@imag.fr (Gourdol Arnaud) writes: >>What I was "fighting" against is the myth that new system versions >>must be used ONLY with newer computers they were made for. > > Apple itself, while they used to say always use the latest, >doesn't anymore. According to what i've seen, here's apple's >recomendation: (please correct me if your from apple) >Classic,si,lc 6.0.7 >Fx,ci,portable 6.0.5 >cx,ii,iix,se,+ 6.0.4 >se/30 6.0.3 I'm not an Apple employee, but I play one on the net. ;) Apple's official word is that there's certain versions of system software that you can't use on certain machines (nothing before 6.0.3 on an SE/30, nothing below 6.0.4 on a IIci or a portable, nothing below 6.0.5 on a IIfx, and nothing below 6.0.7 on a Classic, LC, or IIsi -- correct me if I'm off on this). You're free to run anything since 6.0.2 on an SE or a Plus (6.0 and 6.0.1 were buggy), for example. If you have an SE/30 and you got 6.0.3 with it, for example, then there's no reason to upgrade to a newer system if you don't need the small benefits. Apple makes a distinction between `major upgrades', such as the move to 7.0 will be, and `service upgrades', such as 6.0.3 to 6.0.4. Your machine will run fine on the original System that was made for it. However, each successive system release fixed bugs and adds new features. Without going into details, I suggest from experience that the most practical system you should be using is 6.0.5, because that's the most stable. 6.0.7 has a few nice features, such as the error messages when you crash (which are often wrong) and the new Sound Manager (which lots of things aren't compatible with), but there have been lots of reports of users having serious problems with it. To set the record straight: Whenever Apple releases a new version of system software, IT'S FOR EVERY MODEL of Macintosh. They don't decrease functionality for one machine while providing support for new ones, and the bug fixes are often useful. (Okay, some examples: in 6.0.4, your Mac Plus sometimes won't realize when you've inserted a disk, and in 6.0.2 and 6.0.3, machines without a FDHD (high-density drive) would sometimes catch their read-write heads on the door of a disk as it was being ejected, destroying both the disk and the drive.) If you're interested in seeing what the changes between successive versions of system software are, ftp to apple.com and look in /pub/dts/sw.license. << Brian >> | Brian S. Kendig \ Macintosh | Engineering, | bskendig | | Computer Engineering |\ Thought | USS Enterprise | @phoenix.Princeton.EDU | Princeton University |_\ Police | -= NCC-1701-D =- | @PUCC.BITNET | "It's not that I don't HAVE the work to *do* -- I don't DO the work I *have*."
folta@tove.cs.umd.edu (Wayne Folta) (03/20/91)
In the discussion of whether to upgrade to the latest and greatest OS or not, people mention that 6.0.5 works just fine for the IIci. This is the Apple party line, but it is not totally true. Apple does fix bugs in new releases, as well as supporting new hardware. For example, the IIci ROMs have a problem that affects the display of fonts that are "funny" somehow (something to do with 0-width characters, I think), which causes real grief with music fonts that use separate characters for note staffs and note heads. The staffs don't display. That gave me incentive to go to 6.0.7. Apple's 6.0.5-is-fine-for-the-IIci advice is okay for the general case, but even non-power-users have a reason to go to 6.0.7. Another example is moving to the StyleWriter and TrueType (evidently, hooks for the TrueType INIT aren't in pre-6.0.7). -- Wayne Folta (folta@cs.umd.edu 128.8.128.8)
chai@hawk.cs.ukans.edu (Ian Chai) (03/20/91)
> disk, and in 6.0.2 and 6.0.3, machines without a FDHD (high-density > drive) would sometimes catch their read-write heads on the door of a > disk as it was being ejected, destroying both the disk and the drive.) Aaaigh! So *that*'s why I destroyed 2 Apple internal disk drives within a month of each other some time ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (I finally quit replacing them and just used an external 3rd party drive...) Any way I can get Apple to replace the drive for me free? (Probably not... sigh) Ian Chai 2fntnougat@ukanvax.bitnet chai@cs.ukans.edu
russ@convex.COM (Russell Donnan) (03/20/91)
In article <50466@apple.Apple.COM> winders@aux.support.apple.com (Scott Winders) writes: >In article <1991Mar19.163024.26790@rodan.acs.syr.edu> >isr@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Michael S. Schechter - ISR group account) writes: >> cx,ii,iix,se,+ 6.0.4 > >Here are the current recommendations: >Macintosh IIcx System Software 6.0.5 Just to be disagreeable, Scott, my Mac IIcx came with System 6.0.7 floppies when it was brand new. IMHO, that is the best testimonial of all. -- Russ Donnan, (214) 497-4778, russ@convex.com Convex Computer Corporation, 3000 Waterview Parkway, Richardson, TX "vi: the look-and-feel of Hollerith cards, but without the added bulk!"
bskendig@set.Princeton.EDU (Brian Kendig) (03/20/91)
In article <50466@apple.Apple.COM> winders@aux.support.apple.com (Scott Winders) writes: >Here are the current recommendations: [System Software 6.0.5 for everything except:] >Macintosh IIsi System Software 6.0.7 >Macintosh LC System Software 6.0.7 >Macintosh Classic System Software 6.0.7 But 6.0.7 includes bug fixes and such for the other machines, too. Why isn't it the recommended system for everything? << Brian >> | Brian S. Kendig \ Macintosh | Engineering, | bskendig | | Computer Engineering |\ Thought | USS Enterprise | @phoenix.Princeton.EDU | Princeton University |_\ Police | -= NCC-1701-D =- | @PUCC.BITNET | "It's not that I don't HAVE the work to *do* -- I don't DO the work I *have*."
dorner@pequod.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Dorner) (03/20/91)
In article <7339@idunno.Princeton.EDU> bskendig@set.Princeton.EDU (Brian Kendig) writes: >But 6.0.7 includes bug fixes and such for the other machines, too. >Why isn't it the recommended system for everything? BECAUSE IT BREAKS THINGS. Like HyperCard 1.2, for example. Ok? -- Steve Dorner, U of Illinois Computing Services Office Internet: s-dorner@uiuc.edu UUCP: uunet!uiucuxc!uiuc.edu!s-dorner
dawg6844@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (<blank>) (03/21/91)
dorner@pequod.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Dorner) writes: >In article <7339@idunno.Princeton.EDU> bskendig@set.Princeton.EDU (Brian Kendig) writes: >>But 6.0.7 includes bug fixes and such for the other machines, too. >>Why isn't it the recommended system for everything? >BECAUSE IT BREAKS THINGS. Like HyperCard 1.2, for example. Ok? >-- >Steve Dorner, U of Illinois Computing Services Office >Internet: s-dorner@uiuc.edu UUCP: uunet!uiucuxc!uiuc.edu!s-dorner Thats why you get Hypercard 2.0 with it, steve. -- ________________________________________________________________________________ Dan Walkowski | To understand recursion, Univ. of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci. | you must first understand recursion. walkowsk@cs.uiuc.edu |
dorner@pequod.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Dorner) (03/21/91)
>>BECAUSE IT BREAKS THINGS. Like HyperCard 1.2, for example. Ok? >Thats why you get Hypercard 2.0 with it, steve. Ah, yes, HyperCard 2.0 is on the 6.0.7 disks. I forgot :-). Upgrading HyperCard is no small matter, as you have lots of stacks to sort through (let's see, how DO I copy the data from my old clunky "Address" stack into my new, spiffy "Address" stack?), and then you have to "convert stack" everything you've written. All in all, it's a pain I don't have time for at the moment. It's also a pain to have lots of sounds and sound applications broken. I picked HyperCard as an example so the knee-jerk, holier-than-thou, apps-oughta-follow-Apple-rules crowd would keep their mouths shut. I guess I got the knee-jerk, why-would-you-ever-use-a-back-revision- of-anything crowd instead. Upgrades can cost significant amounts of time, money, and hassle. Even though the 6.0.5 -> 6.0.7 upgrade doesn't (I am so grateful for ftp site and the new installer...), the fact that it forces me to upgrade 43 other things makes it an INDIRECT pain in the posterior. Apple understands this, and so recommends 6.0.5 for macs that don't HAVE to have 6.0.7, because the improvements are not earth-shattering. Which is exactly what somebody from Apple said many articles ago. -- Steve Dorner, U of Illinois Computing Services Office Internet: s-dorner@uiuc.edu UUCP: uunet!uiucuxc!uiuc.edu!s-dorner
park@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Yongsup Park) (03/21/91)
In article <1991Mar19.163024.26790@rodan.acs.syr.edu> isr@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Michael S. Schechter - ISR group account) writes: >recomendation: (please correct me if your from apple) >Classic,si,lc 6.0.7 >Fx,ci,portable 6.0.5 >cx,ii,iix,se,+ 6.0.4 >se/30 6.0.3 I'm not from Apple but our newly-arrived fx uses 6.0.7. -- Yongsup Park / park@casbah.acns.nwu.edu / Man can understand Physics and Astronomy Dept. / park@anmsd3.msd.anl.gov / things beyond the pale Northwestern University / B40180@ANLCV1.BITNET / of his imagination. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
wirehead@oxy.edu (David J. Harr) (03/23/91)
Of course one should never upgrade to a new system when you have one that is working perfectly well. Apple puts out new system releases only for the new Macs. So, when System 7 comes out, it will only be for users of the new Mac Tower. And if you believe that, I have a bridge I can sell you, cheap. David
peirce@outpost.UUCP (Michael Peirce) (03/24/91)
In article <155289@tiger.oxy.edu>, wirehead@oxy.edu (David J. Harr) writes: > > Of course one should never upgrade to a new system when you have one that is > working perfectly well. Apple puts out new system releases only for the new > Macs. So we should all be running 6.0.0 right? Apple does more than just support new machines with their X.X.Y releases. They fix bugs for all machines. Some software depends on these bugs being fixed. Apple also intrduces new features, some are abvious like the new sound manager, other are less visible like a Time Manager that actually works or a script manager that almost works. Apple also introduces a *very* few bugs with each new release. This is how software works late in the twentieth century. Why do you think Apple ships System 6.0.7 in the box with all new machines (even "oldies" like the SE/30). -- michael P.S. Then of course there are people like my father. He still uses his dual floppy Mac 512K and hasn't bought software in years... -- Michael Peirce -- outpost!peirce@claris.com -- Peirce Software -- Suite 301, 719 Hibiscus Place -- Macintosh Programming -- San Jose, California 95117 -- & Consulting -- (408) 244-6554, AppleLink: PEIRCE
dorner@pequod.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Dorner) (03/25/91)
In article <0B010004.1cgpfb@outpost.UUCP> peirce@outpost.UUCP writes: > >In article <155289@tiger.oxy.edu>, wirehead@oxy.edu (David J. Harr) writes: >> Of course one should never upgrade to a new system when you have one that is >> working perfectly well. Apple puts out new system releases only for the new >> Macs. >So we should all be running 6.0.0 right? Mr. Harr was being sarcastic. Guess Mr. Pierce missed that. >Why do you think Apple ships System 6.0.7 in the box with all new >machines (even "oldies" like the SE/30). 1. Because it's cheaper for Apple to produce ONE version of the system. <MAJOR SHIFT IN MAGNITUDE OF IMPORTANCE> 2. It's one way to encourage developers to make their apps compatible. 3. New mac owners are less likely to have old software that the new release might break. The fact that they ship the newest version with all systems doesn't mean they necessarily recommend that users of previous systems upgrade. -- Steve Dorner, U of Illinois Computing Services Office Internet: s-dorner@uiuc.edu UUCP: uunet!uiucuxc!uiuc.edu!s-dorner
ccastjs@prism.gatech.EDU (The Amazing Jim Stembridge (04/03/91)
I saw posted yesterday that system 7.0 was put on sumex. I tried
to get it today, but no system 7.0. Can anyone tell me when it
will actually be there? Thanks
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
ccastjs@prism.gatech.edu
Jim Stembridge, 3037 Springdale Road, Hapeville, Georgia 30354
------------------------------------------------------------------------paixao@ug.cs.dal.ca (Nuno M. Paixao) (04/03/91)
I just saw the following posted in a comp.sys.mac.digest posting. > > Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1991 19:05:07 PST > From: "J. Sculley" <moof@apple.com> > Subject: [*] System Software 7.0 > > Greetings and salutations, erstwhile netters. > > Please enjoy downloading the latest release of our system software. > > Sincerely, > > J. Sculley > > [Archived as /info-mac/apple/sw.license/README.txt; 10K > /info-mac/apple/sw.license/70-install-1.hqx; 1172K > /info-mac/apple/sw.license/70-install-2.hqx; 902K > /info-mac/apple/sw.license/70-utilities.hqx; 1464K > /info-mac/apple/sw.license/70-fonts.hqx; 1022K > /info-mac/apple/sw.license/70-printing.hqx; 879K] > So I promptly FTPed to SUMEX, and found out that the sw.license software does not exist. Was it posted in another directory. If not, does anybody know if any other sites got it? I tried APPLE.COM and couldn't find anything/ Nuno -- *----------------------*---------------------------*------------------------* | Nuno M. Paixao | paixao@ug.cs.dal.ca | dexter@ac.dal.ca | *----------------------*---------------------------*------------------------* | McIntosh Jr ... The Power to Crush the other Kids!!! (SNL) |
tisu@quads.uchicago.edu (Seth Tisue) (04/03/91)
In article <25412@hydra.gatech.EDU> ccastjs@prism.gatech.EDU (The Amazing Jim Stembridge say no more, say no more....) writes: >I saw posted yesterday that system 7.0 was put on sumex. I tried >to get it today, but no system 7.0. Can anyone tell me when it >will actually be there? Thanks The date yesterday was April 1st, right? I hope that clears this up. -- ---- Seth Tisue USMail: c/o Plaster Cramp Press ---- (tisu@midway.uchicago.edu) P.O. Box 5975 "Please to be restful. It is only a few Chicago IL 60680 crazies who have from the crazy place outbroken." --------------
strange@sprite.berkeley.edu (Steve Strange) (04/03/91)
In article <1991Apr2.202156.7857@cs.dal.ca> paixao@ug.cs.dal.ca (Nuno M. Paixao) writes: >I just saw the following posted in a comp.sys.mac.digest posting. > >> >> Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1991 19:05:07 PST >> From: "J. Sculley" <moof@apple.com> >> Subject: [*] System Software 7.0 >> >> Greetings and salutations, erstwhile netters. >> >> Please enjoy downloading the latest release of our system software. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> J. Sculley >> >So I promptly FTPed to SUMEX, and found out that the sw.license software >does not exist. Was it posted in another directory. If not, does anybody >know if any other sites got it? I tried APPLE.COM and couldn't find anything/ > This was clearly an April Fool's joke. Note the posting was apparently from John Sculley, Apple CEO! BTW, no, I was not the prankster :-). Steve Strange UC Berkeley
patel@mwunix.mitre.org (Anup C. Patel) (04/03/91)
In article <25412@hydra.gatech.EDU> ccastjs@prism.gatech.EDU (The Amazing Jim Stembridge say no more, say no more....) writes: >I saw posted yesterday that system 7.0 was put on sumex. I tried >to get it today, but no system 7.0. Can anyone tell me when it >will actually be there? Thanks >-- >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ccastjs@prism.gatech.edu > Jim Stembridge, 3037 Springdale Road, Hapeville, Georgia 30354 >------------------------------------------------------------------------ I believe that this is one of the many April Fool's jokes played on us yesterday. Funny huh??
bskendig@set.Princeton.EDU (Brian Kendig) (04/03/91)
In article <1991Apr2.202156.7857@cs.dal.ca> paixao@ug.cs.dal.ca (Nuno M. Paixao) writes: >I just saw the following posted in a comp.sys.mac.digest posting. >> Greetings and salutations, erstwhile netters. >> Please enjoy downloading the latest release of our system software. >> Sincerely, >> J. Sculley I got it without any problem. If you're having troubles finding the directory it's in, you might want to try accessing it between 5:00 and 5:30 in the morning. Due to net traffic and other people using that machine, it's not accessible from certain parts of the coutry at other times. << Brian >> P.T.: Oh, and don't forget to feed your dogcow. He's been hungry lately. | Brian S. Kendig \ Macintosh | Engineering, | bskendig | | Computer Engineering |\ Thought | USS Enterprise | @phoenix.Princeton.EDU | Princeton University |_\ Police | -= NCC-1701-D =- | @PUCC.BITNET | "It's not that I don't HAVE the work to *do* -- I don't DO the work I *have*."
kempkec@mist.CS.ORST.EDU (Christopher Kempke) (04/03/91)
In article <25412@hydra.gatech.EDU> ccastjs@prism.gatech.EDU (The Amazing Jim Stembridge say no more, say no more....) writes: >I saw posted yesterday that system 7.0 was put on sumex. I tried >to get it today, but no system 7.0. Can anyone tell me when it >will actually be there? Thanks Yesterday, huh? Like, April First? A national holiday of sorts, no? Did you read the message? From "Moof@apple.com"? From John Sculley, even though he's never posted to the net before? To the best of my knowledge, System 7.0 will be released May 13, and even that may be a viscous rumor. Happy April. --Chris
tcwan@umiami.ir.miami.edu (04/03/91)
In article <1991Apr2.202156.7857@cs.dal.ca>, paixao@ug.cs.dal.ca (Nuno M. Paixao) writes: > I just saw the following posted in a comp.sys.mac.digest posting. > >> >> Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1991 19:05:07 PST ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Sorry to disappoint you, but always take anything posted on April Fool's Day with a large dose of salt :) Still, even if it was wistful thinking, I guess it must've caused quite a stampede to sumex yesterday and today!! As we anxiously wait for May 13........... >> From: "J. Sculley" <moof@apple.com> ^^^^ so who's this?? ;) >> Subject: [*] System Software 7.0 tcwan@umiami.miami.edu Grad Student, ECE Univ. of Miami, FL
russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto) (04/03/91)
In article <1991Apr2.202156.7857@cs.dal.ca> paixao@ug.cs.dal.ca (Nuno M. Paixao) writes: >I just saw the following posted in a comp.sys.mac.digest posting. > >> -----> Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1991 19:05:07 PST Enough said? -- Matthew T. Russotto russotto@eng.umd.edu russotto@wam.umd.edu .sig under construction, like the rest of this campus.
ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright) (04/03/91)
In article <1991Apr2.202156.7857@cs.dal.ca> paixao@ug.cs.dal.ca (Nuno M. Paixao) writes: >I just saw the following posted in a comp.sys.mac.digest posting. > >> >> Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1991 19:05:07 PST ^ ^^^ ^^^^ Note the date. >> From: "J. Sculley" <moof@apple.com> ^^ ^^^^^^^ Note the signature.
strange@sprite.berkeley.edu (Steve Strange) (04/03/91)
In article <1991Apr2.230140.26025@eng.umd.edu> russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto) writes: >In article <1991Apr2.202156.7857@cs.dal.ca> paixao@ug.cs.dal.ca (Nuno M. Paixao) writes: >>I just saw the following posted in a comp.sys.mac.digest posting. >> >>> >-----> Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1991 19:05:07 PST > >Enough said? Yes! I think poor Nuno gets the idea. We should remember that not everyone knows who the president of Apple is, or that sys 7 is not due out yet. After all, there were *some* legit. postings yesterday, right? :-) Steve Strange UC Berkeley
chai@hawk.cs.ukans.edu (Ian Chai) (04/03/91)
In article <1991Apr3.001757.6068@agate.berkeley.edu> strange@sprite.berkeley.edu (Steve Strange) writes: >Yes! I think poor Nuno gets the idea. We should remember that not everyone >knows who the president of Apple is, or that sys 7 is not due out yet. After >all, there were *some* legit. postings yesterday, right? :-) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Really? WHERE? WHO? Bring the rope, Jake... we've got a varmint to string up. -- Ian Chai | "God loves you just the way you are, but Internet: chai@cs.ukans.edu | He loves you too much to let you stay that Bitnet: 2fntnougat@ukanvax | way." - Harry Poindexter
russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto) (04/03/91)
In article <1991Apr02.215239.14499@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> kempkec@mist.CS.ORST.EDU (Christopher Kempke) writes: > To the best of my knowledge, System 7.0 will be released May 13, and > even that may be a viscous rumor. Yeah, hate them viscous rumors. The thin, watery kinds are much better. -- Matthew T. Russotto russotto@eng.umd.edu russotto@wam.umd.edu .sig under construction, like the rest of this campus.
amanda@visix.com (Amanda Walker) (04/03/91)
paixao@ug.cs.dal.ca (Nuno M. Paixao) writes: I just saw the following posted in a comp.sys.mac.digest posting. > Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1991 19:05:07 PST > From: "J. Sculley" <moof@apple.com> > Subject: [*] System Software 7.0 So I promptly FTPed to SUMEX, and found out that the sw.license software does not exist. Don't they have April Fool's Day in Canada :) ? -- Amanda Walker amanda@visix.com Visix Software Inc. ...!uunet!visix!amanda -- "No confidence is so vast as that which is grounded in ignorance." --Judith Tarr
james@netcom.COM (James L. Paul) (04/03/91)
In article <1991Apr2.210505.17847@agate.berkeley.edu> strange@sprite.berkeley.edu (Steve Strange) writes: >In article <1991Apr2.202156.7857@cs.dal.ca> paixao@ug.cs.dal.ca (Nuno M. Paixao) writes: >>I just saw the following posted in a comp.sys.mac.digest posting. >> >>> >>> Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1991 19:05:07 PST >>> From: "J. Sculley" <moof@apple.com> >>> Subject: [*] System Software 7.0 >>> >>> Greetings and salutations, erstwhile netters. >>> >>> Please enjoy downloading the latest release of our system software. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> >>> J. Sculley >>> >>So I promptly FTPed to SUMEX, and found out that the sw.license software >>does not exist. Was it posted in another directory. If not, does anybody >>know if any other sites got it? I tried APPLE.COM and couldn't find anything/ >> > >This was clearly an April Fool's joke. Note the posting was apparently from >John Sculley, Apple CEO! BTW, no, I was not the prankster :-). > > Steve Strange > UC Berkeley I don't know anything about this, but the first candidate for golden master is system 7.0FC1, and _is_ available for downloading on AppleLink. System 7.0B6 is also available on AppleLink, but is an older version. -- James L. Paul Internet: netcom!james@apple.com | AppleLink: D1231 | CompuServe: 72767,3436 UUCP: {apple,amdahl}!netcom!james | GEnie: J.PAUL | Voice: 415 377-1981 Packet: N6SIW@N6EEG.CA.USA.NA | Delphi: JLPaul | Home Fax: 415 377-0381
janl@ifi.uio.no (Nicolai Langfeldt) (04/03/91)
In article <1991Apr2.165735.8570@umiami.ir.miami.edu>, tcwan@umiami.ir.miami.edu writes: > >> From: "J. Sculley" <moof@apple.com> > ^^^^ so who's this?? ;) moof? Beware: For That Is The Sound Of The Dogcow Crying. (an aproximation anyway). But seriously: janl@saaga ~/hp48>finger moof@apple.com [apple.com] connect: Connection timed out Apple obviosly has a comunications problem... (fancy prompt I have though...) Anyone who has tried the MacDTS Q&A stack and/or read some Tech Notes will know the dogcow (and it's sound). It's the pet of the MacDTS staff. And we all know and love it. Nicolai, the Tech Note addict.
francis@zaphod.uchicago.edu (04/04/91)
In article <1991Apr3.035039.27806@eng.umd.edu> russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto) writes: >In article <1991Apr02.215239.14499@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> kempkec@mist.CS.ORST.EDU (Christopher Kempke) writes: >> To the best of my knowledge, System 7.0 will be released May 13, and >> even that may be a viscous rumor. >Yeah, hate them viscous rumors. The thin, watery kinds are much better. On the contrary--viscous rumors don't spread as fast. Clearly, there can be no viscous rumors on the Net. -- /============================================================================\ | Francis Stracke | My opinions are my own. I don't steal them.| | Department of Mathematics |=============================================| | University of Chicago | Until you stalk and overrun, | | francis@zaphod.uchicago.edu | you can't devour anyone. -- Hobbes | \============================================================================/
francis@zaphod.uchicago.edu (04/04/91)
In article <7811@idunno.Princeton.EDU> bskendig@set.Princeton.EDU (Brian Kendig) claims: In article <1991Apr2.202156.7857@cs.dal.ca> paixao@ug.cs.dal.ca (Nuno M. Paixao) writes: >I just saw the following posted in a comp.sys.mac.digest posting. >> Greetings and salutations, erstwhile netters. >> Please enjoy downloading the latest release of our system software. >> Sincerely, >> J. Sculley I got it without any problem. If you're having troubles finding the directory it's in, you might want to try accessing it between 5:00 and 5:30 in the morning. Due to net traffic and other people using that machine, it's not accessible from certain parts of the coutry at other times. << Brian >> Liar, liar, pants on fire, hand stuck in the telephone wire. (Just absorbing the ambient childishness here. :-) -- /============================================================================\ | Francis Stracke | My opinions are my own. I don't steal them.| | Department of Mathematics |=============================================| | University of Chicago | Until you stalk and overrun, | | francis@zaphod.uchicago.edu | you can't devour anyone. -- Hobbes | \============================================================================/
nmm2@quads.uchicago.edu (nathaniel marinus mccully) (05/03/91)
In article <1991May3.140213.11381@milton.u.washington.edu> jonwd@milton.u.washington.edu (Jon Wiederspan) writes: >The answer from Apple is that there will never be a KanjiTalk 7.0 . That Wrong. They are working on it as we speak. The current upgrade version will be KanjiTalk 6.1, with TrueType support for all 7,000 characters. 7.0 will come after that. Notice how the revs have been coming faster and faster, as demand for parity between systems has grown. System 6.x went through 5 versions just last year. Expect 7.0-J sooner than you think, along with qualified support to the user. >means, of course, that they have no idea yet how many years it will take. >As far as I can tell, this is because KanjiTalk is a kludge (patch, hack) >in the first place, and System 7.0 won't allow it. The entire KanjiTalk >package would have to be rewritten. Well, if they're going to do that, >hopefully they will take their time and incorporate something like the >Unicode system (which is itself still years away, I guess). > System 7.0 does allow a patch for unicode. That is one of the things that is holding its rollout up. KanjiTalk has already been completely re-written for version 6.1, along with a new international version of 32-bit Quickdraw that can handle 2-byte character sets (for TrueType). >So don't hold your breath, although it might help to send letters to Apple >letting them know how little you think of their support of KanjiTalk. It's >bad enough that they won't really begin distributing it in the States until >the english System 7.0 is out already. Apple has already started shipping KanjiTalk out to the dealers who support it. SystemSoft has many third-party packages in stock and ready to go out via next-day air. The same cannot be said about 7.0 English. >Let them know that you are tired >of switching systems to do your work! Better yet, tell them you're selling >your Mac to buy a Unix machine (a Sun!) so you can get some REAL work done. > >NOTE: OK, this hasn't been an official announcement. It has, however, >been corroborated by two Apple employees, an Aldus employee who's job it >is to know these things about Apple, and a one-time Apple programmer who >still has friends there. I'd like to know who your friends are, because they should get their info straight, from people actually involved in the USA distribution project. Questions? Mail me! I mean nothing personal by the above editorial. -- !!\\ !! !!\\ //!! Dept. of EALC !! \\ !! !! \ / !! Univ. of Chicago !! \\ !! !! v !! c/o SHINNOSUKE !! \\!! AT !! !! cCULLY ===> nmm2@midway.uchicago.edu
rcbaem@rw5.urc.tue.nl (pooh 'Ernst' Mulder) (05/21/91)
Someone else posted about a watchcursor problem. Every now and then my watchcursor gets trashed too. It seems to happen if I open and close a number of Finder windows, especially when the window is opened using an alias in the Apple Menu Items folder. After a while the watchcursor gets its normal shape again. The weird part is that the watchcursor doesn't trash all the time. It trashes when a window is opened, then sets back to its normal shape, and may trash once more just before turning back into the arrow cursor. Mac Plus, 4Mb of memory, vanilla system, 20Mb drive, Mac Plus installation. pooh -- /********************************************************************* * Everything stated above is absolutely true. * Only the facts have been changed to protect the people involved. ***/
philip@pescadero.Stanford.EDU (Philip Machanick) (05/22/91)
In article <rcbaem.674838784@rw5.urc.tue.nl>, rcbaem@rw5.urc.tue.nl (pooh 'Ernst' Mulder) writes: |> Someone else posted about a watchcursor problem. Every now and then my |> watchcursor gets trashed too. It seems to happen if I open and close |> a number of Finder windows, especially when the window is opened using |> an alias in the Apple Menu Items folder. It was I that posted. Someone from Apple told me this is known and is "innocuous". -- Philip Machanick philip@pescadero.stanford.edu
jclee@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Jimmy Lee) (06/02/91)
Fist of all, System 7.0 requires a minimum of 2 megs and a hard disk
to operate, but you will not have enough ram to load one big program
or several programs at once. VM is out for those of you who does
not have a PMMU chip--that's the Plus, SE, Classic, LC, and, I think
some of the Mac II's. Tip--get at least 4 megs. Even though some
of you can't use VM, don't feel sad because VM slows down the
computer to a snail--well, close to it.
System 7.0 loves to access your hard disk a lot. For those of you
in the market for a hard disk, get a Quantum because it will make
your life a whole lot better in terms of speed. If you don't have
the money to buy another hard disk then set the ram cache to a value
of at least 128--the more the better provided you have the ram. I
set mine at 256 and works great. With this setting the accesses to
my hard disk is cut in half.
For those with Mac +'s, try formatting you drive with Silverlining
5.27 or later. While in the program, choose "Silverlining fast
blind" SCSI loop--if your hard disk will support it. Next, still
hungry for speed, check to see if you need to increase the system
heap. Look at the bar under the "About this Macintosh" to see if
there is a 20-25 % of free space. If not, get the program call
"Bootman" or "Heapfixer" to increase the heap. Tip--even though
System 7.0 will adjust the heap automatically, do use the program to
increase the heap--beyond that of the 20-25%. For example, I set my
heap up to 1024K, even though at 750K the 20-25% is met. The more
the better, provided you have the ram, but don't go crazy and
incease the heap to 4098K--don't abuse it. Restart and enjoy your
"new" Mac Plus. Things I noticed after following these
recommendations. 1-loading and quiting applications is a lot faster.
2-duplicating files a lot faster
3-opening and closing folders a lot faster
4-speed could match or beat that of a SE.
5-speed could match or beat that of a SE/30-just
kidding!
New stuff with System 7.0. When duplicating files, the computer now
will read and write at 100K chunks instead of the 200K chunk with
System 6.0X. This seems to speed up things visually, but when time
is concern, it slows down. Things are slow in the finder, but
blazes in the application. Switching between applications is smooth
as silk. Loading and working in Ms Word is faster, but the Print
Preview is slow it you are using TrueType fonts instead of the
Bit-Mapped. Tip-if you are only using one size of a particular
font, then take out the TrueType in the system suitcase and put back
the Bit-Mapped. Oh, how can you tell which one is which. TrueType
icon will have three different sizes of "A" and Bit-Mapped will have
only a single "A" drawn in the icon. Opening each folder is slow
or fast depending on your point of reference. With Sys. 7, once you
double click on the folder, the pointer changes into a watch and
some processing is needed before it opens. In Sys 6.0X, once you
double-click, it opens instantaneously. In Sys 7.0, after the
"processing," the folder will shoot out at you. In 6.0X, that
effect is much subtle.
Enjoy your new software. If there are any questions, email or post
on the net. I do not work for anyone and am not responsible for any
damages it may have caused with the tips I give. Try only with your
valuable data back up.
I have a Mac Plus, with 4 megs, 40 meg Ehman Hard Drive, running
system Seven since May 15th. Not had any major problem YET--I
better keep my mouth shut!rmh@apple.com (Rick Holzgrafe) (06/04/91)
In article <20016@sdcc6.ucsd.edu> jclee@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Jimmy Lee) writes: > Tip-if you are only using one size of a particular > font, then take out the TrueType in the system suitcase and put back > the Bit-Mapped. Keep the TrueType *and* the bitmap, it's OK to have both. The system will use a bitmap instead of a TrueType font when the bitmap is available in the correct size. ========================================================================== Rick Holzgrafe | {sun,voder,nsc,mtxinu,dual}!apple!rmh Software Engineer | AppleLink HOLZGRAFE1 rmh@apple.com Apple Computer, Inc. | "All opinions expressed are mine, and do 20525 Mariani Ave. MS: 3-PK | not necessarily represent those of my Cupertino, CA 95014 | employer, Apple Computer Inc."
kaufman@neon.Stanford.EDU (Marc T. Kaufman) (06/04/91)
rmh@apple.com (Rick Holzgrafe) writes: >In article <20016@sdcc6.ucsd.edu> jclee@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Jimmy Lee) writes: -> Tip-if you are only using one size of a particular -> font, then take out the TrueType in the system suitcase and put back -> the Bit-Mapped. >Keep the TrueType *and* the bitmap, it's OK to have both. The system will >use a bitmap instead of a TrueType font when the bitmap is available in >the correct size. However, you should be aware that the font metrics for the bitmaps are not the same as for the TrueType outlines, so that DrawString will give different length results depending on which one you are using. Apple: why didn't you recalculate the Bit-Mapped font metrics so they match the TrueType metrics? Marc Kaufman (kaufman@Neon.stanford.edu)