lorner@ecst.csuchico.edu (Lance Orner) (05/22/91)
I try to keep up with this newsgroup, but I don't think I've seen this particular question before. Then again, I could be wrong. Especially with all of the new shareware TrueType fonts around, the suitcases that are supplied contain both the TrueType and several bitmapped versions of the same font. Is there any point in keeping them both, or is the TrueType version enough? Thanks. -- Lance M Orner | To get a hold of me -- Computer Engineering | --from Internet: lorner@ecst.csuchico.edu California State | --from America Online: Caradoc University, Chico | --from Eighth Ave.: "Hey! Lance!"
brecher@public.BTR.COM (Steve Brecher) (05/22/91)
In <1991May21.232030.23869@ecst.csuchico.edu>, lorner@ecst.csuchico.edu (Lance Orner) asks: > Especially with all of the new shareware TrueType fonts around, the > suitcases that are supplied contain both the TrueType and several > bitmapped versions of the same font. Is there any point in keeping them > both, or is the TrueType version enough? The default behavior of the Font Manager is to use a bitmap if it is available for the specified size; this default can be overridden by the application. Especially in smaller sizes, bitmaps will often look better. E.g., Adobe's Helvetica 7 bitmap is much nicer than TrueType's rendering of Helvetica 7. -- brecher@btr.com (Steve Brecher)
steve@huxley.huxley.bitstream.com (Steve Stein) (05/22/91)
In article <1991May21.232030.23869@ecst.csuchico.edu> lorner@ecst.csuchico.edu (Lance Orner) writes: > Especially with all of the new shareware TrueType fonts around, the suitcases > that are supplied contain both the TrueType and several bitmapped versions > of the same font. Is there any point in keeping them both, or is the > TrueType version enough? First of all, since there seems to have been some confusion on this point, it IS possible to have bitmap fonts coexisting with the same TT fonts in the same system. If the system wants a size for which there is a bitmap, the bitmap will be used. If there is no bitmap of the desired size, the TT font is used. Now, why would you WANT to do it this way? 1. Bitmaps for certain fonts may be clearer on the screen than the hinted TT fonts. One example recently posted here was the "cl" combination in some small Times sizes coming out looking like "d". 2. There may be some incompatability in your particular applications between the widths and linespacing of the characters in the TT font and those of the bitmap font. If you have existing documents, upgrading to TT may change your line or page breaks. Installing the particular bitmaps used by your old documents will cure any incompatability problems which may arise. (Regarding this second point: Bitstream has been particularly careful to maintain width and heighth compatability wherever possible. It is possible to achieve compatability in *almost* all cases, but not all. I don't know the situation with other font manufacturers.) - Steve Stein - Bitstream, Inc. (OBVIOUS DISCLAIMER: I work for Bitstream, Inc.)
kenh@eclectic.COM (Ken Hancock) (05/28/91)
In article <2855@public.BTR.COM> brecher@public.BTR.COM (Steve Brecher) writes: >The default behavior of the Font Manager is to use a bitmap if it is >available for the specified size; this default can be overridden by the >application. Especially in smaller sizes, bitmaps will often look better. >E.g., Adobe's Helvetica 7 bitmap is much nicer than TrueType's rendering >of Helvetica 7. This brings up a related bug in the Mac OS. Say you have Times 50 point installed as well as Times Roman, Italic, Bold, and BI TrueType installed as well. Type some text in 50 point, then italicize it. What you get is QuickDrawed italics, not real Times Italic font. I assume that this is because Apple uses the braindead _RealFont. Seriously, Apple, isn't it time to create a toolbox utility for telling whether high-quality fonts are available? OutlineAvailable is nice, but you have to first set outline prefs to false, setup a grafport, call OutlineAvailable, and then set outline prefs back. Talk about a hack... Ken -- Ken Hancock | INTERNET: kenh@eclectic.com Isle Systems | Compuserve: >INTERNET: kenh@eclectic.com Macintosh Consulting | AOL: KHancock | Disclaimer: My opinions are mine, | your opinions are yours. Simple, isn't it?
espen@ikaros.uio.no (Espen J. Vestre) (05/29/91)
References:<1991May21.232030.23869@ecst.csuchico.edu> <2855@public.BTR.COM> <189@eclectic.COM> In article <189@eclectic.COM> kenh@eclectic.COM (Ken Hancock) writes: > This brings up a related bug in the Mac OS. Say you have Times 50 point > installed as well as Times Roman, Italic, Bold, and BI TrueType installed > as well. Type some text in 50 point, then italicize it. What you get > is QuickDrawed italics, not real Times Italic font. I assume that > this is because Apple uses the braindead _RealFont. This is a really annoying bug, not for exotic sizes like 50 points, but for the standard sizes where the installer by default installs bitmap fonts for you. Does this mean I have to throw out all the bitmap versions of e.g. Times to get access to the Times TrueType Italics fonts? It was also annoying that the Installer replaced my (Adobe bitmap) Palatino fonts, which also made Palatino Italics show up as QuickDraw-slanted Palatino. Guess I'll throw them away and put back the Adobe version. On the other hand, I notice that Helvetica Narrow works again (it stopped working with the introduction of Sys. 6.0.4!), which means I don't have to reboot the machine with 6.0.3 to get some old documents with Helvetica Narrow in their graphichs printed!! BUT, what I really would like would be TrueType versions of all the standard LaserWriter fonts. Do I have to BUY them? Why don't Apple supply real screen support for the fonts that are in their printers?? Anyway - is there a way I could do this by myself - extract the fonts out of the printer and convert them to TrueType? ----------------------------------------- Espen J. Vestre Department of Mathematics University of Oslo P.o. Box 1053 Blindern N-0316 OSLO 3 NORWAY espen@ikaros.uio.no -----------------------------------------
dorner@pequod.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Dorner) (05/29/91)
Espen J. Vestre writes: >standard LaserWriter fonts. Do I have to BUY them? Why don't Apple >supply real screen support for the fonts that are in their printers?? Because the fonts in Apple's printers are owned by Adobe, and licensed for use in LW's. Apple can't use those fonts outside the LW's without paying additional licensing fees to Adobe. Avoidance of those licensing fees is the only substantial reason I can see for TrueType to exist at all. Basically, you have to wait for Apple to recreate those fonts in TrueType form. (Or buy ATM and the Plus Pack, and be done with it.) -- Steve Dorner, U of Illinois Computing Services Office Internet: s-dorner@uiuc.edu UUCP: uunet!uiucuxc!uiuc.edu!s-dorner
draphsor@elaine39.Stanford.EDU (Matt Rollefson) (06/01/91)
espen@ikaros.uio.no (Espen J. Vestre) writes: >References:<1991May21.232030.23869@ecst.csuchico.edu> <2855@public.BTR.COM> <189@eclectic.COM> >In article <189@eclectic.COM> kenh@eclectic.COM (Ken Hancock) writes: >> This brings up a related bug in the Mac OS. Say you have Times 50 point >> installed as well as Times Roman, Italic, Bold, and BI TrueType installed >> as well. Type some text in 50 point, then italicize it. What you get >> is QuickDrawed italics, not real Times Italic font. I assume that >> this is because Apple uses the braindead _RealFont. >This is a really annoying bug, not for exotic sizes like 50 points, but >for the standard sizes where the installer by default installs bitmap >fonts for you. Does this mean I have to throw out all the bitmap >versions of e.g. Times to get access to the Times TrueType Italics fonts? Well, not precisely. It means that to get good-looking screen fonts, you have to download a neat little program from sumex-aim called bitfont. You can then use this program to create italicized bitmaps in your favorite sizes from the TrueType fonts themselves. However, make sure you remove the bitmaps from your system before doing this, or bitfont also will find the bitmaps first. After you've created your italicized bitfonts, you can replace both bitmap fonts. Thanks go to Chang.P.Woo@mac.dartmouth.edu for pointing out that you have to remove the bitmapped 'straight' version before making the italic version using bitfont. >Espen J. Vestre >Department of Mathematics >University of Oslo >P.o. Box 1053 Blindern >N-0316 OSLO 3 >NORWAY espen@ikaros.uio.no -- Draphsor vo'drun-Aelf draphsor@leland.stanford.edu
draphsor@elaine39.Stanford.EDU (Matt Rollefson) (06/02/91)
draphsor@elaine39.Stanford.EDU (that's me) writes: > ...to get good-looking screen fonts, you >have to download a neat little program from sumex-aim called bitfont. (Taking foot out of mouth.) I just checked, and bitfont is not actually available on sumex-aim (although it probably should be). It is, however, available from mac.archive.umich.edu. The path is: mac/utilities/font/bitfont.sit.hqx For a description of why you'd want this little utility, see my previous post. -- Draphsor vo'drun-Aelf draphsor@leland.stanford.edu
kenh@eclectic.COM (Ken Hancock) (06/02/91)
In article <1991May29.144244.18178@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> dorner@pequod.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Dorner) writes: >Basically, you have to wait for Apple to recreate those fonts in TrueType >form. (Or buy ATM and the Plus Pack, and be done with it.) Except Apple isn't recreating them. They're still licensing them through type houses. The current TrueType set, I believe, is licensed through Monotype (?). Ken -- Ken Hancock | INTERNET: kenh@eclectic.com Isle Systems | Compuserve: >INTERNET: kenh@eclectic.com Macintosh Consulting | AOL: KHancock | Disclaimer: My opinions are mine, | your opinions are yours. Simple, isn't it?
espen@math.uio.no (Espen J. Vestre) (06/03/91)
References:<1991May29.100330.3042@ulrik.uio.no> <draphsor.675749830@elaine39.Stanford.EDU> In article <draphsor.675749830@elaine39.Stanford.EDU> draphsor@elaine39.Stanford.EDU (Matt Rollefson) writes: > Well, not precisely. It means that to get good-looking screen fonts, you > have to download a neat little program from sumex-aim called bitfont. > You can then use this program to create italicized bitmaps in your > favorite sizes from the TrueType fonts themselves. However, make sure > you remove the bitmaps from your system before doing this, or bitfont > also will find the bitmaps first. After you've created your italicized > bitfonts, you can replace both bitmap fonts. > > Thanks go to Chang.P.Woo@mac.dartmouth.edu for pointing out that you > have to remove the bitmapped 'straight' version before making the italic > version using bitfont. Thanks alot! But, I decided to save disk space and rather live with somewhat ugly fonts, so I removed all the bitmapped versions of the TrueType fonts... But then - Helvetica Narrow (which I thought was acting ok again after being unusable in systems 6.0.4-6.0.7) strikes again!!! When I select a size of Helvetica which I also have a Helvetica Narrow bitmap font for, Helvetica Narrow shows up on the screen! Could someone please finally explain me what's wrong with Helvetica Narrow??? ----------------------------------------- Espen J. Vestre Department of Mathematics University of Oslo P.o. Box 1053 Blindern N-0316 OSLO 3 NORWAY espen@math.uio.no -----------------------------------------
neff@hp-vcd.HP.COM (Dave Neff) (06/04/91)
>But then - Helvetica Narrow (which I thought was acting ok again after >being unusable in systems 6.0.4-6.0.7) strikes again!!! When I select a >size of Helvetica which I also have a Helvetica Narrow bitmap font for, >Helvetica Narrow shows up on the screen! >Could someone please finally explain me what's wrong with Helvetica >Narrow??? I can't explain it, but Helvetica Narrow has given me problems too. I removed all Helvetica Narrow fonts (I only had bitmaps) from my System (7) file. There were no more Helvetica Narrow fonts in the system. I tripple checked. But EVERY application insisted Helvetica Narrow was available for use, yet when I would try to apply this font attribute I would only get the default font (Geneva I think). Finally, I just gave up and put the helv bitmaps back in my system. After all, if the applications are gonna insist I have the font, I might as well really have it. These were not True Type fonts of course, just the bitmapped fonts that are optional fonts for the DeskWriter (I also have Helvetica Narrow outline fonts but those are only used by the DeskWriter printer driver when printing, not for screen display). Maybe the system has some sort of check like this :-) if (helvetica_narrow) BeTotallyWeird(sometimes); Dave Neff neff@hpvcfs1.HP.COM
cj@modernlvr.wpd.sgi.com (C J Silverio) (06/05/91)
--- kenh@eclectic.COM (Ken Hancock) writes: |In article <1991May29.144244.18178@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> dorner@pequod.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Dorner) writes: |>Basically, you have to wait for Apple to recreate those fonts in TrueType |>form. (Or buy ATM and the Plus Pack, and be done with it.) | |Except Apple isn't recreating them. They're still licensing them through |type houses. The current TrueType set, I believe, is licensed through |Monotype (?). One thing you can do is spend $90 or so on AltSys's Metamorphosis, which will convert Type 1 fonts to TrueType outlines. The results aren't quite as nice as hand-converted outlines, but they're not bad. --- cj@modernlvr.wpd.sgi.com C J Silverio/Brahms Gang/Berkeley CA 94720 "The absence of any corrective action year after year can only be explained by bureaucratic rigidities and the abject worship of that bitch-goddess, cost reduction." --Ralph Nader, in Unsafe at Any Speed
espen@math.uio.no (06/05/91)
In article <1930006@hp-vcd.HP.COM> neff@hp-vcd.HP.COM (Dave Neff) writes: >>But then - Helvetica Narrow (which I thought was acting ok again after >>being unusable in systems 6.0.4-6.0.7) strikes again!!! When I select a >>size of Helvetica which I also have a Helvetica Narrow bitmap font for, >>Helvetica Narrow shows up on the screen! >>Could someone please finally explain me what's wrong with Helvetica >>Narrow??? > >I can't explain it, but Helvetica Narrow has given me problems too. >I removed all Helvetica Narrow fonts (I only had bitmaps) from my >System (7) file. There were no more Helvetica Narrow fonts in the >system. I tripple checked. But EVERY application insisted Helvetica >Narrow was available for use, yet when I would try to apply this font >attribute I would only get the default font (Geneva I think). Finally, >I just gave up and put the helv bitmaps back in my system. After all, if >the applications are gonna insist I have the font, I might as well really >have it. These were not True Type fonts of course, just the bitmapped fonts >that are optional fonts for the DeskWriter (I also have >Helvetica Narrow outline fonts but those are only used by the DeskWriter >printer driver when printing, not for screen display). > I experienced just what you describe. To stop Helvetica Narrow from appearing in font menus, I had to use ResEdit to remove the FOND resource. But then for the good news: It seems I have finally managed to clean it up now, by using some newer Helvetica Narrow fonts I found on a local server. I can't tell their origin, but I suspect them to have come with a newer printer. The font suitcase included style fonts for all the LW Plus/IINT(X) fonts, but no TrueType fonts. So if you have a Helvetica Narrow problem, try to get hold of fresh screen fonts, for instance fonts supplied with a recently buyed Laser Printer! To be sure, I would recommend removing every trace of the old fonts with ResEdit before installing the new ones. -espen