rdd@cactus.org (Robert Dorsett) (06/10/91)
The setup: copying files to a disk which already has identical files on it. The resulting dialog: "Some items in this location have the same names as items you're moving. Do you want to replace them with the onces you're moving?" Could cause some alarm, especially if the user takes it at face value (i.e., moving = copy + delete). --- Robert Dorsett Internet: rdd@cactus.org UUCP: ...cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!rdd
norton@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Norton Chia) (06/10/91)
rdd@cactus.org (Robert Dorsett) writes: >The setup: copying files to a disk which already has identical files on it. >The resulting dialog: > "Some items in this location have the same names as items you're > moving. Do you want to replace them with the onces you're moving?" >Could cause some alarm, especially if the user takes it at face value (i.e., >moving = copy + delete). At face value, replacing with the on(c)es you're moving means exactly that -> I'm going to wipe out (replace) the stuff with the ones I'm copying across (moving). So what's the alarm? I do think the default should be "Cancel" tho'. -- // Norton Chia || I can be reached via e-mail --> norton@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU / / Micro Support || Yes, this is Australia calling. ////// AppleLink: AUST0240 / / Uni of Sydney || No, I haven't got anything to say but "Thanks", if I forgot //// When I'm talking half way around the world, my employers can't hear me ///
kiran@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (Kiran Wagle) (06/10/91)
>rdd@cactus.org (Robert Dorsett) writes: >>The setup: copying files to a disk which already has identical files on it. >>The resulting dialog: >> "Some items in this location have the same names as items you're >> moving. Do you want to replace them with the onces you're moving?" >>Could cause some alarm, especially if the user takes it at face value (i.e., >>moving = copy + delete). norton@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Norton Chia) replies: >At face value, replacing with the on(c)es you're moving means exactly that -> >I'm going to wipe out (replace) the stuff with the ones I'm copying across >(moving). So what's the alarm? But you're not moving them. You're copying them. If you were moving a file, you'd still only have one of it. But if you copy it to another disk, you have two of it. -- ...kiran __________kiran@copper.ucs.indiana.edu________(812) 331-1710 From the corrections column in a July Fresno, CA _Bee_: "An item in Thursday's [issue] about the Massachusetts budget crisis made reference to new taxes that will help put Massachusetts 'back in the African-American.' The item should have said 'back in the black.'"
norton@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Norton Chia) (06/10/91)
kiran@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (Kiran Wagle) writes: >>rdd@cactus.org (Robert Dorsett) writes: >>>The setup: copying files to a disk which already has identical files on it. >>>The resulting dialog: >>> "Some items in this location have the same names as items you're >>> moving. Do you want to replace them with the onces you're moving?" >>>Could cause some alarm, especially if the user takes it at face value (i.e., >>>moving = copy + delete). >norton@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Norton Chia) replies: >>At face value, replacing with the on(c)es you're moving means exactly that -> >>I'm going to wipe out (replace) the stuff with the ones I'm copying across >>(moving). So what's the alarm? >But you're not moving them. You're copying them. If you were >moving a file, you'd still only have one of it. But if you copy it to >another disk, you have two of it. Well, I don't know of any "move" command in the Finder. I'm suggesting it's either the metaphor that's got to change, or your perception of "moving" an icon that's got to change. Nevertheless, I think we'd all agree that we would want a more forgiving Finder that will say things like (as was bounced about on the net some time ago) that it should ask if we want the files on the target disk to be removed, or give us the option to "move and rename". At least it asks you if you wanted to replace them... Bloody Unix just does it - BANG!! Oh, sorry, Unix is for "experts" who know what they're doing and do not need some pissy Finder questioning their motives. :) At least they have both a "copy" and "move". Q: How would you rename a file from X to Y? A: You type m(o)v(e) X Y. Of course unless Y is a directory, in that case, you'll be moving X "into" Y. :) PS I love these complaints about the Mac, it keeps Apple developers on their toes and shows how much we use (tempted to say love) the Mac as well! :) Cheers, -- // Norton Chia || I can be reached via e-mail --> norton@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU / / Micro Support || Yes, this is Australia calling. ////// AppleLink: AUST0240 / / Uni of Sydney || No, I haven't got anything to say but "Thanks", if I forgot //// When I'm talking half way around the world, my employers can't hear me ///
hairston@henry.ece.cmu.edu (David Hairston) (06/10/91)
[rdd@cactus.org (Robert Dorsett) writes:] [] The setup: copying files to a disk which already has identical files on it. [] The resulting dialog: [] "Some items in this location have the same names as items you're [] moving. Do you want to replace them with the onces you're moving?" [] Could cause some alarm, especially if the user takes it at face value [] (i.e., moving = copy + delete). [norton@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Norton Chia) replies:] [] At face value, replacing with the on(c)es you're moving means exactly [] that -> I'm going to wipe out (replace) the stuff with the ones I'm [] copying across (moving). So what's the alarm? [kiran@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (Kiran Wagle) writes:] [] But you're not moving them. You're copying them. If you were [] moving a file, you'd still only have one of it. But if you copy it to [] another disk, you have two of it. [norton@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Norton Chia) writes:] [] Well, I don't know of any "move" command in the Finder. I'm suggesting it's [] either the metaphor that's got to change, or your perception of "moving" [] ... perhaps the wording could change for those who would confuse moving and copying but it should be noted that on the Mac (Finder) copying files has never implied moving. the confusion is introduced by ... let's say, outsiders ... and yes, the default should be to protect the files involved, since you could use the default (repeatedly) and if it wasn't what you wanted then you could back and do it right the next time. this is, of course, less convenient than the current method. -dave- hairston@henry.ece.cmu.edu
sho@gibbs.physics.purdue.edu (Sho Kuwamoto) (06/11/91)
The Macintosh thought police wannabe speaks:
The system software *does* make a clear distinction between moving and
copying. For example, the movable modal dialog that appears is either
named move or named copy. Because of this, we should never use the
word move when we mean "move or copy."
If, by using the word move, we are referring to the physical action
done by the user, we should use the word "drag."
"Some items in this location have the same names as items you're
dragging. Do you want to replace them with the ones you're dragging?"
Since "dragging" is such a horrible word, I'd prefer to have the
dialog use the words "moving" and "copying" as appropriate.
It's not so such a big deal... It's just that making this one simple
change would make the interface just a little better. And it's these
little things which add up to give us the macintosh interface.
-Sho
--
sho@physics.purdue.edu <<-- Favorite example of inconsistent
interface: IBM's Abort, Retry, or Ignore.francis@zaphod.uchicago.edu (Francis Stracke) (06/11/91)
In article <13360@pt.cs.cmu.edu> hairston@henry.ece.cmu.edu (David Hairston) writes: >[norton@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Norton Chia) writes:] >[] Well, I don't know of any "move" command in the Finder. I'm suggesting it's >[] either the metaphor that's got to change, or your perception of "moving" >[] ... >perhaps the wording could change for those who would confuse >moving and copying but it should be noted that on the Mac >(Finder) copying files has never implied moving. the confusion >is introduced by ... let's say, outsiders ... Not so. The Finder now sometimes puts up dialogs that say "Moving." Of course, this is only when it's doing stuff inside suitcases (at least that's the only time I've seen it), but the different metaphor is there now. -- /============================================================================\ | Francis Stracke | My opinions are my own. I don't steal them.| | Department of Mathematics |=============================================| | University of Chicago | Welcome to the Real World. Enjoy the | | francis@zaphod.uchicago.edu | show. | \============================================================================/
franklin@snowball.ucdavis.edu (Paul Franklin) (06/12/91)
In article <13360@pt.cs.cmu.edu> hairston@henry.ece.cmu.edu (David Hairston) writes: >perhaps the wording could change for those who would confuse >moving and copying but it should be noted that on the Mac >(Finder) copying files has never implied moving. the confusion >is introduced by ... let's say, outsiders ... Except that if you move/copy many items at once, you get a movable modal dialog indicating the progress that specifically specifies moving (within a disk) or copying (to another disk). --Paul Franklin pdfranklin@ucdavis.edu