philip@pescadero.Stanford.EDU (Philip Machanick) (06/07/91)
In article <1991Jun6.180820.14114@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, dorner@pequod.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Dorner) writes: |> In fact, the ONLY apps I use that are broken under system 7 are from Apple. On this subject: is anyone else irritated by the fact that many apps that use colour mess up each other's colours? Finder, ResEdit 2.1 and MacX spring to mind. I wouldn't mind so much if the background app was messed up and was OK when it moved to the foreground, but sometimes things stay mashed (for example, yesterday, the delicate shade of grey in window borders became a delicate shade of purplish brown in all applications). -- Philip Machanick philip@pescadero.stanford.edu
gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu (Garance A. Drosehn) (06/07/91)
The one thing that aggravates me the most is the situation with MPW. It really
seems there could have been a version of MPW available which would save files
under system 7. In my case I wanted to buy the ETO disk anyway, but for anyone
who does not want to shell out $1K there is currently no way to use Apple's own
editting environment under system 7.
MPW is a pretty nice editor system, and it's irritating that Apple left people
with the choice of:
1) you can use MPW to edit text files
or 2) you can run system 7
or 3) you can shell out $1000 (and find a CD-ROM player) to get
a beta version of MPW that can actually save changes made
to a text file.
Now, option 3 is reasonable for those who want C, Pascal, C++, MacApp, and
everything else on E.T.O (or at least a large subset of the many things that
are included). For me, it's OK. For people who just need one compiler (maybe
even some third-party compilier that happens to run under MPW) and something to
edit large text files with (MPW itself), the comment that they can buy ETO to
get a working text editor is pretty obnoxious.
The new MPW environment is quite nice, but for those with less $$$ to spend on
such luxuries it would be nice if there was a version available, all by itself,
that could at least be *used* with system 7. Even if it was just the old
version without all the new goodies but with the ability to save changes under
system 7.
Well, I better stop before I get really worked up about this all over again.
Other than the snafu with MPW, I think system 7 is a pretty impressive job.
- - - - - - - -
Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@rpi.edu or gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu
ITS Systems Programmer
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy NY USAlsr@Apple.COM (Larry Rosenstein) (06/08/91)
In article <mjwhpzd@rpi.edu> gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu (Garance A. Drosehn) writes: >The one thing that aggravates me the most is the situation with MPW. It >really seems there could have been a version of MPW available which would >save files under system 7. In my case I wanted to buy the ETO disk anyway, Isn't there an upgrade from APDA to MPW 3.2? MPW 3.2 went final about the same time System 7 did. > or 3) you can shell out $1000 (and find a CD-ROM player) to get > a beta version of MPW that can actually save changes made There's no need to use a beta version of MPW. -- Larry Rosenstein, Apple Computer, Inc. lsr@apple.com (or AppleLink: Rosenstein1)
Jim.Spencer@p510.f22.n282.z1.fidonet.org (Jim Spencer) (06/10/91)
Larry Rosenstein writes in a message to All LR> Isn't there an upgrade from APDA to MPW 3.2? MPW 3.2 went final LR> about the same time System 7 did. > or 3) you can shell out $1000 (and find a CD-ROM player) to get > a beta version of MPW that can actually save changes made LR> There's no need to use a beta version of MPW. Bzzzt. Wrong. Thank you for playing. Unfortunately for those of us who are not certified developers, there is no choice ( at least as of today, June 9) other than to use a beta version of 3.2 and even that can only be obtained from ETO. The final shell has apparently made available on the Golden Master but the riff-raff don't get this. The shell may have gone final with System 7 but APDA isn't shipping it yet. * Origin: White Mailer Test Point (1.0d6) (1:282/22.510)
jackb@MDI.COM (Jack Brindle) (06/12/91)
In article <676606177.0@macgate.fidonet> Jim.Spencer@p510.f22.n282.z1.fidonet.org (Jim Spencer) writes: > >Bzzzt. Wrong. Thank you for playing. > >Unfortunately for those of us who are not certified developers, there >is no choice ( at least as of today, June 9) other than to use a beta >version of 3.2 and even that can only be obtained from ETO. The final >shell has apparently made available on the Golden Master but the >riff-raff don't get this. Bzzzt. Wrong. Thank you for playing. The System 7 GM CDRom contains a BETA version of the 3.2 shell (3.2b12). It does NOT contain final versions of any of the MPW software. To put it another way, "certified" developers (AKA Apple Partners) don't have the final version either. Of course, if you had ETO, you could be using betas of 3.3 instead of betas of 3.2. :-). Thus everyone (except Apple Folks themselves) is in the same boat, waiting for MPW 3.2 to release. On the other hand, both 3.2 beta and 3.3 beta (both from ETO) appear to be quite stable under System 7. Jack Brindle ham radio: wa4fib/7
gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu (Garance A. Drosehn) (06/12/91)
In article <1991Jun11.191431.27158@MDI.COM> jackb@MDI.COM (Jack Brindle) writes: > In article <676606177.0@macgate.fidonet> Jim.Spencer@p510.f22.n282.z1.fidonet.org (Jim Spencer) writes: > > > >Bzzzt. Wrong. Thank you for playing. > > > >Unfortunately for those of us who are not certified developers, there > >is no choice ( at least as of today, June 9) other than to use a beta > >version of 3.2 and even that can only be obtained from ETO. The final > >shell has apparently made available on the Golden Master but the > >riff-raff don't get this. > > Bzzzt. Wrong. Thank you for playing. > > The System 7 GM CDRom contains a BETA version of the 3.2 shell (3.2b12). > It does NOT contain final versions of any of the MPW software. To put it > another way, "certified" developers (AKA Apple Partners) don't have the > final version either. Of course, if you had ETO, you could be using betas > of 3.3 instead of betas of 3.2. :-). > > Thus everyone (except Apple Folks themselves) is in the same boat, waiting > for MPW 3.2 to release. On the other hand, both 3.2 beta and 3.3 beta (both > from ETO) appear to be quite stable under System 7. Jim was mostly right (does that give him partial credit, only a half-buzzt perhaps?). His main point was that ordinary folk can not get their hands on a version of MPW that works under system 7. That is correct. His speculation that non-ordinary folks can get the final version was wrong, but that wasn't the main point of his comments. I signed up for ETO because I want to have most of the stuff on there anyway. For me the system 7 vs MPW situation isn't too bad. For people who are using MPW with a single compiler, they must give up system 7, or give up MPW (for the moment), or give up $1000 to become an ETO subscriber. I consider that somewhat irritating, all things considered. It would have been much friendlier if a working MPW had been available from APDA, all by itself, *before* system 7 hit the streets. I'm not saying it has to be MPW 3.2 (which is really nice and has a lot of great new features), but at least a 3.1+7 which would be just like 3.1 except that it could save changes to a text file under system 7. Hopefully this will all be sorted out in a week or so, and everyone will be able to order a working version of MPW (all by itself). Until then, it irritates me that the main problem I personally had with system 7 came from software released by the same place that released system 7 (ie, Apple). - - - - - - - - Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@rpi.edu or gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu
DN5@psuvm.psu.edu (D. Jay Newman) (06/12/91)
In article <1991Jun11.191431.27158@MDI.COM>, jackb@MDI.COM (Jack Brindle) says: >The System 7 GM CDRom contains a BETA version of the 3.2 shell (3.2b12). >It does NOT contain final versions of any of the MPW software. To put it >another way, "certified" developers (AKA Apple Partners) don't have the >final version either. Of course, if you had ETO, you could be using betas >of 3.3 instead of betas of 3.2. :-). I just looked at the MPW shell I got from the golden CD, and it doesn't say "beta" on it anywhere! Are you sure that its 3.2b2, and not MPW Shell 3.2 final? Also, has anybody actually seen ETO #4? Or hasn't it shipped yet? (Not complaining, but I want to know because our mail is being messed up...). ()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()() D. Jay Newman ! That is not dead which can eternal lie dn5@psuvm.psu.edu ! And with strange eons even death can die CBEL--Teaching and Learning Technologies Group
lsr@Apple.COM (Larry Rosenstein) (06/14/91)
In article <91163.120050DN5@psuvm.psu.edu> DN5@psuvm.psu.edu (D. Jay Newman) writes: > >I just looked at the MPW shell I got from the golden CD, and it doesn't >say "beta" on it anywhere! Are you sure that its 3.2b2, and not >MPW Shell 3.2 final? You are right, the shell on the System 7 GM CD is 3.2 final. The CD doesn't seem to have all of MPW, however. -- Larry Rosenstein, Apple Computer, Inc. lsr@apple.com (or AppleLink: Rosenstein1)