farmer@ecs.umass.edu (THE MAD MUSKRAT) (05/31/91)
Hi,
Am I just dumb or has apple removed cmd-opt-e from system 7. I system 6 you
could eject a disk and remove its icon from the desktop this way. Now it
seems you MUST use the mouse. Kind of annoying since you can navigate the
whole desktop with the keyboard....(or am I just missing something here).
Thanks,
Matt Farmer
----------------------------------------------------------------------
internet: farmer@ecs.umass.edu
farmer@saturn.ucc.umass.edufarmer@ecs.umass.edu (THE MAD MUSKRAT) (06/01/91)
Hi again, In article <13860.28466288@ecs.umass.edu> I wrote... > Am I just dumb or has apple removed cmd-opt-e from system 7. The answer is CMD-Y. I am just dumb I guess since 5 people told me the answer within a few hours of posting. thanks all, Matt Farmer ---------------------------------------------------------------------- internet: farmer@ecs.umass.edu farmer@saturn.ucc.umass.edu
dave@PRC.Unisys.COM (David Lee Matuszek) (06/06/91)
>> Am I just dumb or has apple removed cmd-opt-e from system 7. > >The answer is CMD-Y. I am just dumb I guess since 5 people told me the >answer within a few hours of posting. No, you're not dumb. Cmd-Y is dumb. Cmd-Opt-E was "smart", in that it went and found the next ejectable disk, and ejected that one--it had some intelligence built in. Cmd-Y is dumb--if you happen to have a volume selected (the usual case), it tries to eject that one, and whines if it can't. If no volume is selected, it doesn't do anything. Since you have to mouse on the volume to select it, I don't see the point of moving your hands back to the keyboard to hit Cmd-Y, instead of just dragging the volume to the trash. On the whole, I like System 7. Two steps forward and one step back. Here are some more losses: Most of the "Clean Up" options are missing. System 7 has made sorting by name easier, but I knew the trick for doing that anyway. I most miss option-Clean Up to pack the icons tightly. But hey, the intelligent zoom box is a real winner! My nice SunView icl8s are useless. Pasting into the icon box in the Get Info window sort of works, if you don't care about niceties like icon masks. Unfortunately, I do. Control Panels. The new scheme is presumably more flexible (I'm not convinced of that), but it certainly takes substantially longer to get to the control panel you want, particularly if it's just the General control panel. I really like the networking capability. Too bad it's useless with a CD-ROM drive (unless you have only a single CD you want to use all the time). Probably it's equally bad with SyQuest removables? I liked hierarchical Apple menus, and now that anything can go under the Apple menu, I want them more than ever. This one I'm not worried about, however--this will be a thorn in everyone's side, so we'll soon see INITs to do the job. I used title-bar click a lot. I'll have to dig into the system to see if I can turn it on again. I like staggered icons, but only a little bit staggered, not flamboyantly staggered. Again, maybe with some digging.... -- Dave Matuszek (dave@prc.unisys.com) I don't speak for my employer. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Freedom of speech: 1776-1991. R.I.P. | -------------------------------------------------------------------------
johnston@minnie.me.udel.edu (06/07/91)
In article <17926@burdvax.PRC.Unisys.COM>, dave@PRC.Unisys.COM (David Lee Matuszek) writes... >>> Am I just dumb or has apple removed cmd-opt-e from system 7. >> >>The answer is CMD-Y. I am just dumb I guess since 5 people told me the >>answer within a few hours of posting. > >No, you're not dumb. Cmd-Y is dumb. Cmd-Opt-E was "smart", in that >it went and found the next ejectable disk, and ejected that one--it >had some intelligence built in. Cmd-Y is dumb--if you happen to have >a volume selected (the usual case), it tries to eject that one, and >whines if it can't. If no volume is selected, it doesn't do anything. Well ... I think of this as a feature. No selection => no action is logical. Command-option-arrow commands can toggle the selections on the desktop, so dismounting disks can still be a mouse-free operation. Cmd-Y does more than just eject disks, by the way. It's actually rather "smart". Try the following: Open various folders containing the documents that you want to work with during a session. Drag the icons to a "pile" on the desktop, select, and open. When you're done with the session, select the pile and type cmd-Y: the files are returned to their original folders. That's very nice. I had resisted the idea of icon-dropping because I like to keep applications in their own folders; put-away makes this painless. Bill (johnston@minnie.me.udel.edu)
tagreen@lothario.ucs.indiana.edu (Todd Green) (06/07/91)
>Since you have to mouse on the volume to select it, I don't see the >point of moving your hands back to the keyboard to hit Cmd-Y, instead >of just dragging the volume to the trash. There are several ways that you can select various icons on the desktop. Read your manuals or mail me if you wish to know them. >My nice SunView icl8s are useless. Pasting into the icon box in the Your icons are not useless. You can use ResEdit to manipulate the icon families directly. They can be found in the resource forks of your programs and/or in the invisible icon file of each volume. >Control Panels. The new scheme is presumably more flexible (I'm not >convinced of that), but it certainly takes substantially longer to get Personally I prefere it. You can either alias them and have an icon on your desktop or(and) have them appear in the Apple menu. Loading in the cdev panel under 6.0.x could take a _long_ time without a disk cache. -- Internet: tagreen@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu NeXTMail: tagreen@lothario.ucs.indiana.edu BitNet: tagreen@iubacs.bitnet
awessels@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Allen Wessels) (06/07/91)
In article <17926@burdvax.PRC.Unisys.COM> dave@PRC.Unisys.COM (David Lee Matuszek) writes: Ao >miss option-Clean Up to pack the icons tightly. But hey, the >intelligent zoom box is a real winner! I think it isn't as smart as all that. My HD window is set to view by small icon, and when I click on the zoom box, it contracts so that file names of folders/files on the far right side of the window are obscured by just about the width of the scroll bar. Yeah, picky, I know.
keith@Apple.COM (Keith Rollin) (06/08/91)
In article <17926@burdvax.PRC.Unisys.COM> dave@PRC.Unisys.COM (David Lee Matuszek) writes: > >Most of the "Clean Up" options are missing. System 7 has made sorting >by name easier, but I knew the trick for doing that anyway. I most >miss option-Clean Up to pack the icons tightly. But hey, the >intelligent zoom box is a real winner! Aren't you exaggerating when you say "most options"? You note only a "single option". >Control Panels. The new scheme is presumably more flexible (I'm not >convinced of that), but it certainly takes substantially longer to get >to the control panel you want, particularly if it's just the General >control panel. Why does it take longer? Under 6.0.x, cdevs were sorted alphabetically with a special cdev (usually General) placed at top. Under 7.0, you are free to display the icons any which way you want, including the way 6.0.x sorted them, so what have you lost? Additionally, you can now "type select" the cdev you want without having to hunt for it or scroll to it first. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Keith Rollin --- Apple Computer, Inc. INTERNET: keith@apple.com UUCP: {decwrl, hoptoad, nsc, sun, amdahl}!apple!keith "But where the senses fail us, reason must step in." - Galileo
keith@Apple.COM (Keith Rollin) (06/08/91)
In article <50120@ut-emx.uucp> awessels@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Allen Wessels) writes: >In article <17926@burdvax.PRC.Unisys.COM> dave@PRC.Unisys.COM (David Lee Matuszek) writes: >Ao >>But hey, the intelligent zoom box is a real winner! > >I think it isn't as smart as all that. My HD window is set to view by small >icon, and when I click on the zoom box, it contracts so that file names of >folders/files on the far right side of the window are obscured by just about the >width of the scroll bar. Hmmm... this doesn't happen to me. The names of my icons are fully displayed. Are you running any funky "Zoom" INITs? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Keith Rollin --- Apple Computer, Inc. INTERNET: keith@apple.com UUCP: {decwrl, hoptoad, nsc, sun, amdahl}!apple!keith "But where the senses fail us, reason must step in." - Galileo
gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu (Garance A. Drosehn) (06/08/91)
In article <53777@apple.Apple.COM> keith@Apple.COM (Keith Rollin) writes: > In article <17926@burdvax.PRC.Unisys.COM> dave@PRC.Unisys.COM (David Lee Matuszek) writes: > >Control Panels. The new scheme is presumably more flexible (I'm not > >convinced of that), but it certainly takes substantially longer to get > >to the control panel you want, particularly if it's just the General > >control panel. > > Why does it take longer? Under 6.0.x, cdevs were sorted alphabetically > with a special cdev (usually General) placed at top. Under 7.0, you are > free to display the icons any which way you want, including the way > 6.0.x sorted them, so what have you lost? Additionally, you can now > "type select" the cdev you want without having to hunt for it or scroll > to it first. More importantly, if there is some control panel that you run often you can now put an alias to that control panel in the "Apple Menu Items" folder. So you select the control panel without bringing up the folder at all. Or you could leave an alias to the control panel on your desktop, so you don't even have to pull down the apple menu. - - - - - - - - Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@rpi.edu or gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu ITS Systems Programmer Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy NY USA
awessels@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Allen Wessels) (06/10/91)
In article <53778@apple.Apple.COM> keith@Apple.COM (Keith Rollin) writes: >In article <50120@ut-emx.uucp> awessels@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Allen Wessels) writes: >>folders/files on the far right side of the window are obscured by just about the >>width of the scroll bar. > >Hmmm... this doesn't happen to me. The names of my icons are >fully displayed. Are you running any funky "Zoom" INITs? Nope. I just tried it several times again. I have 3 columns of files/folders in Small Icon view. If they are all lined up fairly evenly, then the "shrink- to-fit" zoom works. If I move an icon in the 3rd column out to the right, the window shrinks but obscures part of the name of that file/folder. I'm running SuitCase, SmartClock, Pyro!, Just Click, and SoundMaster.
dave@PRC.Unisys.COM (David Lee Matuszek) (06/15/91)
In article <53777@apple.Apple.COM> keith@Apple.COM (Keith Rollin) writes: >In article <17926@burdvax.PRC.Unisys.COM> dave@PRC.Unisys.COM (David Lee Matuszek) writes: >> >>Most of the "Clean Up" options are missing. System 7 has made sorting >>by name easier, but I knew the trick for doing that anyway. I most >>miss option-Clean Up to pack the icons tightly. But hey, the >>intelligent zoom box is a real winner! > >Aren't you exaggerating when you say "most options"? You note only a >"single option". No, I wasn't exaggerating. However I had not found any decent documentation when I wrote this, and have since discovered that the options are still there, just a little less obvious. When I make a selection I can get it to clean up just the selection, but now I have to hold down the shift key; it's not automatic. I can get it to sort by Kind by switching the view to Kind, switching back to Icon, and then using option-Clean Up (I'll never know how this one got past the human interface people!). >>Control Panels. The new scheme is presumably more flexible (I'm not >>convinced of that), but it certainly takes substantially longer to get >>to the control panel you want, particularly if it's just the General >>control panel. > >Why does it take longer? Under 6.0.x, cdevs were sorted alphabetically >with a special cdev (usually General) placed at top. Under 7.0, you are >free to display the icons any which way you want, including the way >6.0.x sorted them, so what have you lost? Additionally, you can now >"type select" the cdev you want without having to hunt for it or scroll >to it first. It takes longer because System 7 now opens the Extensions folder (is that the right one?), and one thing that's gotten a lot slower under System 7 is opening a folder and drawing all the in it. So I'll stand on what I said. I've since heard that control panels don't have to go into this folder, but can go into the Apple Menu Items folder. I'll try this with the General control panel, I guess, but there are already too many things in the Apple menu. (I'll be the first in line when someone figures out how to make the Apple menu hierarchical....) Lest I leave the wrong impression, thought, I DO like System 7. Very much. Now if I can only get TrueType fonts to print out with proper spacing.... >-- >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Keith Rollin --- Apple Computer, Inc. >INTERNET: keith@apple.com > UUCP: {decwrl, hoptoad, nsc, sun, amdahl}!apple!keith >"But where the senses fail us, reason must step in." - Galileo -- Dave Matuszek (dave@prc.unisys.com) I don't speak for my employer. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Freedom of speech: 1776-1991. R.I.P. | -------------------------------------------------------------------------
baumgart@esquire.dpw.com (Steve Baumgarten) (06/19/91)
In article <18001@burdvax.PRC.Unisys.COM> dave@PRC.Unisys.COM (David Lee Matuszek) writes:
It takes longer because System 7 now opens the Extensions folder (is
that the right one?), and one thing that's gotten a lot slower under
System 7 is opening a folder and drawing all the in it. So I'll stand
on what I said.
I've since heard that control panels don't have to go into this
folder, but can go into the Apple Menu Items folder. I'll try this
with the General control panel, I guess, but there are already too
many things in the Apple menu. (I'll be the first in line when
someone figures out how to make the Apple menu hierarchical....)
You can put an alias wherever you like, or wherever it's most
convenient. If you have a Control Panel that you use all the time,
put it (or an alias of it) on the desktop. Heck, put the Control
Panels folder itself on the desktop and take it out of the Apple Menu
Items folder if it's too difficult or slow to get to that way.
My own experience (on a IIfx) is that bringing the Control Panels
folder to the front and opening it is faster than running the old
Control Panel DA under System 6. Plus, I like being able to arrange
the Control Panels in the folder so that they're grouped logically and
with my most-often used ones at the top.
I think the ability to put a folder in the Apple Menu Items folder and
have it brought to the front and opened is marvelous, intuitive, and
consistent; I hate going back to System 6 now. A pox on hierarchical
menus; aliases are a much better solution.
(Speaking of improvements: the "Find" command in the Finder is
insanely great. It works *exactly* as I've always wanted all these
"Find File" DAs to work. Kudos to the human interface folks at Apple
for making all the right decisions.)
--
Steve Baumgarten | "New York... when civilization falls apart,
Davis Polk & Wardwell | remember, we were way ahead of you."
baumgart@esquire.dpw.com |
cmcl2!esquire!baumgart | - David Lettermangillies@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Don Gillies) (06/21/91)
There is one irritating thing about the new DA scheme in system 7.0. You can no longer open a DA within the application heap. Frequently, I run my FOP postscript interpreter, which requires me to operate the chooser to switch between the laserwriter and deskwriter printer driver. FOP, the FOP spooler, System 7.0, and MS-Word, take all 5Mb of my memory. It is very irritating to be unable to open the chooser because you're low on memory. Sometimes you get to a critical section in your work and you want to print. Leaving your application might destroy the object you want to print. The chooser has no memory so you end up deadlocked, unable to choose -- unable to print. This was never a problem before. Some life-critical DAs should be able to run in the system heap, using some sort of memory emergency-reservation scheme. Don Gillies - gillies@cs.uiuc.edu - University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign --
philip@pescadero.Stanford.EDU (Philip Machanick) (06/21/91)
In article <1991Jun20.232314.4961@m.cs.uiuc.edu>, gillies@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Don Gillies) writes: |> There is one irritating thing about the new DA scheme in system 7.0. |> You can no longer open a DA within the application heap. Frequently, |> I run my FOP postscript interpreter, which requires me to operate the |> chooser to switch between the laserwriter and deskwriter printer |> driver. FOP, the FOP spooler, System 7.0, and MS-Word, take all 5Mb |> of my memory. How much memory does Chooser need? On my machine, it is only given 20K. Couldn't you just slice a few K off the memory allocated to each program to fit it in? -- Philip Machanick philip@pescadero.stanford.edu
long@mcntsh.enet.dec.com (Rich Long) (06/21/91)
In article <1991Jun20.232314.4961@m.cs.uiuc.edu>, gillies@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Don Gillies) writes: >There is one irritating thing about the new DA scheme in system 7.0. >You can no longer open a DA within the application heap. Frequently, There are two ways to do this: 1. Open the DA in question with Suitcase II. You will then be able to launch it in the app. heap by holding option when you pick it from the menu. 2. Get hold of Font/DA Mover 4.1 or Resedit and install the DA directly into the application. Richard C. Long | long@mcntsh.enet.dec.com | Selfware: If you like --------------- | ...!decwrl!mcntsh.enet.dec.com!long | this program, send A First Edition | long%mcntsh.dec@decwrl.enet.dec.com | yourself five bucks!
jackb@MDI.COM (Jack Brindle) (06/22/91)
In article <1991Jun20.232314.4961@m.cs.uiuc.edu> gillies@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Don Gillies) writes: >There is one irritating thing about the new DA scheme in system 7.0. >You can no longer open a DA within the application heap. Frequently, >I run my FOP postscript interpreter, which requires me to operate the >of my memory. > >It is very irritating to be unable to open the chooser because you're >low on memory. Sometimes you get to a critical section in your work >and you want to print. Leaving your application might destroy the >object you want to print. The chooser has no memory so you end up >deadlocked, unable to choose -- unable to print. This was never a >problem before. Some life-critical DAs should be able to run in the >system heap, using some sort of memory emergency-reservation scheme. How would this help? The Mac would try to load the chooser into the system heap, discover it needs more room, try to expand it, only to find there wasn't enough memory, then give you an "out of memory" dialog. You would be left in the exact same situation you are in now. At least you have a chance of running the DA if you have VM going (if you can run it...). As I understand it, the system heap never gets swapped, so it still would have memory problems after loading the DA into the system. This brings up another question. Is it possible to lock out a running application that has been swapped out? Consider this scenerio: Some piece of code is loaded into the system heap. It causes a large application to be swapped. The new code is locked, and increases the system heap so that the application no longer has enough memory available to run. Possible? Or will the system catch it and keep the additional code from loading into the system? Hmmmmm....... Jack B, ham radio: wa4fib/7
dant@ryptyde.UUCP (Daniel Tracy) (06/22/91)
Responding to the following: "There is one irritating thing about the new DA scheme in system 7.0. You can no longer open a DA within the application heap. Frequently, I run my FOP postscript interpreter, which requires me to operate the chooser to switch between the laserwriter and deskwriter printer driver." Determine what application you want to open a DA in. Use Font/DA Mover 4.1 to move that DA INTO the application (with option-open). From then on, I believe, the DA WILL appear in the Apple Menu and holding down the option key while selecting it will open it within the current app.
dant@ryptyde.UUCP (Daniel Tracy) (06/23/91)
Responding to the following: "How would this help? The Mac would try to load the chooser into the system heap, discover it needs more room, try to expand it, only to find there wasn't enough memory, then give you an "out of memory" dialog. You would be left in the exact same situation you are in now. At least you have a chance of running the DA if you have VM going (if you can run it...). As I understand it, the system heap never gets swapped, so it still would have memory problems after loading the DA into the system. This brings up another question. Is it possible to lock out a running application that has been swapped out? Consider this scenerio: Some piece of code is loaded into the system heap. It causes a large application to be swapped. The new code is locked, and increases the system heap so that the application no longer has enough memory available to run. Possible? Or will the system catch it and keep the additional code from loading into the system?" 1) I thought the System 7.0 Process Manager treats DA's as applications for the most part. That is, they're given their own chunk of memory and layer as applications are. Why would the Chooser be loaded into the System Heap? 2) With Virtual Memory, I don't think the above applies. Does the entire application have to be loaded at once? I thought the Mac used demand-paged virtual memory. That is, because of resources, only the parts that are needed at the time are loaded into memory. Even if this weren't true, your statement just doesn't seem right. Maybe I don't know enough about Mac OS, but consider this: You have 5 megs of VM total. As long as the CODE resource fits in this virtual space any amount of swapping can be done, right? Am I taking your example wrong?
Rick_McCormack@mindlink.bc.ca (Rick McCormack) (06/23/91)
Anyone care to change the title of this thread? Thanks. -- _________________________________________________________ | IMAGISTICS Business Theatre Technology | Rick McCormack | | Interactive Effective Compelling | Vancouver, BC | |________________________________________|________________| | UseNet: Rick_McCormack@mindlink.uucp | A O-L: Rique | |_________________________________________________________| .
nick@cs.ed.ac.uk (Nick Rothwell) (06/24/91)
In article <93@ryptyde.UUCP>, dant@ryptyde.UUCP (Daniel Tracy) writes: > Determine what application you want to open a DA in. Use Font/DA Mover > 4.1 to move that DA INTO the application (with option-open). From then > on, I believe, the DA WILL appear in the Apple Menu and holding down > the option key while selecting it will open it within the current app. You don't even need to hold the option key. Nick. -- Nick Rothwell, Laboratory for Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh. nick@lfcs.ed.ac.uk <Atlantic Ocean>!mcsun!ukc!lfcs!nick ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ <-- WEST VIEWING ROOM EAST VIEWING ROOM -->