ejb@think (Erik Bailey) (06/12/91)
I have a question. Short of turning balloon help on and whizzing the mouse
around the screen to look for balloons, is there any way to determine if
balloon help is supported by an application? Every time I get a new CDEV
(I *refuse* to call them Extensions or Control Panels! :-)) that's designed
for System 7, I always check if it supports balloon help. 3/4 don't (how
un-System-7-like!). There's gotta be an easier way to do this.
I thought of possibly an init that would check to see if the front
application supports balloon help (can that be done?) and if it doesn't,
grays out the "Show Balloons" menu item. This isn't a good solution,
though, because "Show Balloons" still needs to be selectable -- the user
may want help for an application on the screen, but in the background.
I really don't know if this is a solvable problem. I don't really like the
"try it, and if nothing happens, it doesn't have balloon help" approach,
but it's all that seems available.
Comments?
--Erik
--
Erik Bailey | 7 Oak Knoll | Thinking Machines Corp.
ejb@think.com | Arlington, MA 02174 | 245 First St.
harvard!think!ejb | (617) 643-0732 | Cambridge, MA 02142
/earth is 98% full. Please remove any excess inhabitants.carr@apple.com (Randy Carr) (06/14/91)
In article <1991Jun12.155432.13822@Think.COM>, ejb@think (Erik Bailey) writes: > > > I have a question. Short of turning balloon help on and whizzing the mouse > around the screen to look for balloons, is there any way to determine if > balloon help is supported by an application? Every time I get a new CDEV > (I *refuse* to call them Extensions or Control Panels! :-)) that's designed > for System 7, I always check if it supports balloon help. 3/4 don't (how > un-System-7-like!). There's gotta be an easier way to do this. You can't really tell if an application, cdev, or DA supports balloons as the Help Mgr can be called directly. However, most 7.0 studly developers will want to put a 'hfdr' resource in their app to get a custom balloon message in the Finder. So this can be a quick indicator. > > I thought of possibly an init that would check to see if the front > application supports balloon help (can that be done?) and if it doesn't, > grays out the "Show Balloons" menu item. This isn't a good solution, > though, because "Show Balloons" still needs to be selectable -- the user > may want help for an application on the screen, but in the background. You don't want to do this as an application is not the only one who takes advantage of Balloons. The system itself provides help for things like the Apple menu, window parts, the process menu, other application windows, etc. Graying out the Show Balloons menu item just isn't appropriate. > > I really don't know if this is a solvable problem. I don't really like the > "try it, and if nothing happens, it doesn't have balloon help" approach, > but it's all that seems available. > > Comments? > > --Erik > > -- > Erik Bailey | 7 Oak Knoll | Thinking Machines Corp. > ejb@think.com | Arlington, MA 02174 | 245 First St. > harvard!think!ejb | (617) 643-0732 | Cambridge, MA 02142 > /earth is 98% full. Please remove any excess inhabitants. > Randy Carr System Software (I wrote the Help Mgr) Apple Computer, Inc. Internet: carr@apple.com
ejb@think.com (Erik Bailey) (06/14/91)
In article <14057@goofy.Apple.COM> carr@apple.com (Randy Carr) writes: >In article <1991Jun12.155432.13822@Think.COM>, I wrote: >> >> I have a question. Short of turning balloon help on and whizzing the mouse >> around the screen to look for balloons, is there any way to determine if >> balloon help is supported by an application? Every time I get a new CDEV >> (I *refuse* to call them Extensions or Control Panels! :-)) that's designed >> for System 7, I always check if it supports balloon help. 3/4 don't (how >> un-System-7-like!). There's gotta be an easier way to do this. > >You can't really tell if an application, cdev, or DA supports balloons as the >Help Mgr can be called directly. However, most 7.0 studly developers will >want to put a 'hfdr' resource in their app to get a custom balloon message >in the Finder. So this can be a quick indicator. Hmm - I hadn't though of that. Yeah, I suppose I can be happy with turning help on, and whizzing the mouse over a bunch of icons, and seeing which ones pop up balloons. Ok, cool. >> I thought of possibly an init that would check to see if the front >> application supports balloon help (can that be done?) and if it doesn't, >> grays out the "Show Balloons" menu item. This isn't a good solution, >> though, because "Show Balloons" still needs to be selectable -- the user >> may want help for an application on the screen, but in the background. > >You don't want to do this as an application is not the only one who takes >advantage of Balloons. The system itself provides help for things like the >Apple menu, window parts, the process menu, other application windows, etc. >Graying out the Show Balloons menu item just isn't appropriate. True enough. Someone last week asked a question of whether the "hot spots" can be determined (ie highlighted); I'm not sure if it was answered. Is this kind of information buried in the code of the application, or is it available so an init (perhaps an FKey) could show you where help is available? >Randy Carr >System Software (I wrote the Help Mgr) >Apple Computer, Inc. >Internet: carr@apple.com Now THAT'S help straight from the source... :-) Thanks for responding, Randy! --Erik -- Erik Bailey | 7 Oak Knoll | Thinking Machines Corp. ejb@think.com | Arlington, MA 02174 | 245 First St. harvard!think!ejb | (617) 643-0732 | Cambridge, MA 02142 /earth is 98% full. Please remove any excess inhabitants.
stui@avalon.caladan.wa.com (Stuart Burden) (06/14/91)
In article <14057@goofy.Apple.COM>, carr@apple.com (Randy Carr) writes: | Graying out the Show Balloons menu item just isn't appropriate. Had to smile.. sounds like Bush.. Wouldn't be prudent at this juncture.. :-) :-) Why..? Once you've seen it, you've seen it...! An obvious user interface flaw is the "Help" key on the Extended Keyboards.. doesn't turn on or off balloon help.. nor does Command-Help.. what the world really needs is a keyboard shortcut to turn the item on or off, and if that be the case, why not trash the icon? Why not a key to turn on or off the display of the menu item? No-one has been able to say why this is not a good idea, other than "every man and his dog will one day write Balloon Help".. So..? Stu. -- stui@avalon.uucp stui@avalon.caladan.wa.com
carr@apple.com (Randy Carr) (06/14/91)
In article <1991Jun13.203051.7210@Think.COM>, ejb@think.com (Erik Bailey) writes: > - Stuff Deleted - > > True enough. Someone last week asked a question of whether the "hot spots" > can be determined (ie highlighted); I'm not sure if it was answered. Is > this kind of information buried in the code of the application, or is it > available so an init (perhaps an FKey) could show you where help is > available? > Well, once again, since the running program is responsible for what balloons are to be displayed for its windows, this just always isn't possible. However, for programs that use 'hrct' or 'hdlg' resources, especially 'hrct' resources, it would be fairly simple to write an 'fkey' to do the rect analysis. On activation, the fkey code would examine the frontmost window, see if the active and visible flags are set and then try doing what the help mgr basically does. I.E. map any available 'hwin' resource to matching 'hrct' resources. There is a call in the Help Mgr to walk any of the Help Mgr resources, HMGetIndHelpMsg(), which allows you to get info about any record within the resource, including rectangles. The code could then display gray rects or what ever for 'hrct's and compare rects against 'DITL' items for 'hdlg' records. Go to it. Randy Carr System Software (I wrote the Help Mgr) Apple Computer, Inc. Internet: carr@apple.com
draphsor@elaine39.Stanford.EDU (Matt Rollefson) (06/15/91)
stui@avalon.caladan.wa.com (Stuart Burden) writes: >In article <14057@goofy.Apple.COM>, carr@apple.com (Randy Carr) writes: > | Graying out the Show Balloons menu item just isn't appropriate. >Why..? Once you've seen it, you've seen it...! An obvious user interface >flaw is the "Help" key on the Extended Keyboards.. doesn't turn on >or off balloon help.. nor does Command-Help.. what the world really >needs is a keyboard shortcut to turn the item on or off, and if that >be the case, why not trash the icon? Why not a key to turn on or >off the display of the menu item? Check out the cdev helium on mac.archive.umich.edu. (in the /mac/system.extensions/cdev directory). It does exactly this - you hold down the option and command keys while pointing to something, and after a certain amount of time (about a second, I'd say) the balloon help for the item you're pointing to pops up. Very nice... And, it's free! Just picked it up yesterday, so I don't know if it'll have any problems, but thus far no crashes or anything. Looks like a well-written little utility. >stui@avalon.uucp >stui@avalon.caladan.wa.com -- Draphsor vo'drun-Aelf draphsor@leland.stanford.edu
baumgart@esquire.dpw.com (Steve Baumgarten) (06/15/91)
In article <14057@goofy.Apple.COM> carr@apple.com (Randy Carr) writes:
Randy Carr
System Software (I wrote the Help Mgr)
Apple Computer, Inc.
Internet: carr@apple.com
Here's a public thank you, Randy, for one of the most powerful,
intuitive, and truly helpful help systems I've ever had the pleasure
of using. Although I'm pretty much up to speed on System 7 now, I had
the great good fortune of watching my uncle (who's used to DOS and is
somewhat of a Mac neophyte) learn all about System 7 through Balloon
Help.
Best of all, he had a smile on his face as he was learning, and it was
obvious that he enjoyed the immediate feedback of being able to point
at things and discover what they do or how they operate.
Lots of folks in this group have grumbled about Balloon Help, saying
that it was annoying or that they turned it off after 2 minutes; but I
think that it's simply wonderful for those people who don't have
access to Usenet and have to learn about System 7 for themselves.
I'm also eagerly awaiting Microsoft's implementation of Balloon Help
for their insane "Commands" dialog in Word... :-)
--
Steve Baumgarten | "New York... when civilization falls apart,
Davis Polk & Wardwell | remember, we were way ahead of you."
baumgart@esquire.dpw.com |
cmcl2!esquire!baumgart | - David Lettermanashwin@gatech.edu (Ashwin Ram) (06/15/91)
In article <1CE00001.h2b15n@avalon.caladan.wa.com> stui@avalon.caladan.wa.com (Stuart Burden) writes: > An obvious user interface > flaw is the "Help" key on the Extended Keyboards.. doesn't turn on > or off balloon help.. nor does Command-Help.. what the world really > needs is a keyboard shortcut to turn the item on or off, and if that > be the case, why not trash the icon? Why not a key to turn on or > off the display of the menu item? I agree this is a good idea. The recently posted HelpMeister does this -- it allows you to turn Balloon Help on and off using control-Help. It would be nice to have the option of turning off the Balloon Help icon if a keyboard shortcut is turned on, although personally the icon doesn't bother me (in fact, it's kind of cute). Another nice addition to HelpMeister would be to modify the Balloon Help menu to display the appropriate keyboard shortcut next to the Hide/Show Balloons menu item. Also, it would make more sense to use Help or Command-Help instead of control-Help -- maybe future versions of HelpMeister can be made configurable? (As an aside, I wish there was some set of guidelines for the use of shift, control, option and command keys -- everyone seems to use them differently. The user ought to be able to guess which key is the appropriate modifier for a given type of function modification.) -- Ashwin (ashwin@cc.gatech.edu)
oleary@ux.acs.umn.edu (Doc O'Leary) (06/15/91)
In article <1CE00001.h2b15n@avalon.caladan.wa.com> stui@avalon.caladan.wa.com (Stuart Burden) writes, among other things: >In article <14057@goofy.Apple.COM>, carr@apple.com (Randy Carr) writes: > | Graying out the Show Balloons menu item just isn't appropriate. >Why..? Once you've seen it, you've seen it...! An obvious user interface >flaw is the "Help" key on the Extended Keyboards.. doesn't turn on >or off balloon help.. nor does Command-Help.. what the world really >needs is a keyboard shortcut to turn the item on or off, and if that >be the case, why not trash the icon? Why not a key to turn on or >off the display of the menu item? There are (at least) two utilities that allow turning Help on/off using the keyboard. The first is Helpmeister (a system extension, I think) that allows the Help key on the extended keyboard to toggle balloons. Second is Helium (what I use) that brings up the balloons when you hold down a combination of special keys (command, option, shift, and/or control). >No-one has been able to say why this is not a good idea, other than >"every man and his dog will one day write Balloon Help".. So..? It can produce an inconsistent interface. Let me ask you, how many time do you use the Edit menu? Probably not much, since the command key equivalents are so much quicker (at least that's my reason for not using it much). So why not give the user the option to turn the Edit menu off (that alone would give enough space in *every* program for SuperClock)? This can be extended to all menu items. Unfortunately, in places like public labs, one user may not need a menu item (knowing the command keys) while a newer user might have to go through the hassle of putting the item back into the menu bar (and the User #1 removes it again and the User #2 . . .). Worse yet, User #2 tries out a program he's never used before and may never realize that some of the menu items (thus, some of the program options) are missing (User #1 uses the program a lot :-)! --------- Doc ********************** Signature Block : Version 2.6 ********************* * | * * "Was it love, or was it the idea | It's hard to look cool with your * * of being in love?" -- PF | arm Super-Glued to your forehead * * (BTW, which one *is* Pink?) | * * | --->oleary@ux.acs.umn.edu<--- * ****************** Copyright (c) 1991 by Doc O'Leary ********************
pejacoby@mmm.serc.3m.com (Paul E. Jacoby) (06/17/91)
In article <1CE00001.h2b15n@avalon.caladan.wa.com> stui@avalon.caladan.wa.com (Stuart Burden) writes: > >Why..? Once you've seen it, you've seen it...! An obvious user interface >flaw is the "Help" key on the Extended Keyboards.. doesn't turn on >or off balloon help.. nor does Command-Help.. what the world really >needs is a keyboard shortcut to turn the item on or off, and if that >be the case, why not trash the icon? Why not a key to turn on or >off the display of the menu item? For those that haven't seen them yet, there are already several Extensions out which will allow you to turn Balloon Help on and off from the keyboard. HelpMeister uses "Control-Help" to toggle, and Helium allows you to assign your own Help key. Both are VERY useful for those 'spot-check' items you can't recall when needed. -- | Paul E. Jacoby, 3M Company, 3M Center, 235-3F-27 | | Maplewood, MN 55144-1000 .-----------------------------------| | => pejacoby@3m.com | I'm afraid this is getting | | (612) 737-3211 | too silly! |
dave@PRC.Unisys.COM (David Lee Matuszek) (06/25/91)
In article <1CE00001.h2b15n@avalon.caladan.wa.com> stui@avalon.caladan.wa.com (Stuart Burden) writes: >Why..? Once you've seen it, you've seen it...! An obvious user interface >flaw is the "Help" key on the Extended Keyboards.. doesn't turn on >or off balloon help.. nor does Command-Help.. what the world really >needs is a keyboard shortcut to turn the item on or off, and if that >be the case, why not trash the icon? Why not a key to turn on or >off the display of the menu item? > >No-one has been able to say why this is not a good idea, other than >"every man and his dog will one day write Balloon Help".. So..? I think two such utilities already exist, and I'm sure more will be written. With this in mind, here is the up-and-coming FAQ for this fall: "My balloon help has disappeared! What happened to it? Is my System corrupted? DO I HAVE A VIRUS????" There have already been a couple of instances of net postings where the poster said he turned off balloon help first thing. Then he proceeded to ask a stupid question about System 7 that would have quickly been answered by the balloon help. Oops. I expect we will soon be seeing a new acronym: RTFB. The balloon help should be a major selling point for Macs (that is, if Apple ever gets around to providing System 7 on new machines). Don't forget that novices need it most, and will be least likely to discover how to turn it on when they need it, or why it's suddenly missing. The obvious flaw in using "Help" or "Command-Help" to toggle the balloon help is that the Help key does not exist on every keyboard. Go back and look at your Human Interface Guidelines--they strongly discourage options that can ONLY be accessed if you have a certain keyboard (though it's OK if you have another method, such as a menu item). Here's a method in which the flaw is less obvious. I believe that with "Helium" you move the mouse to an item and then hold down "Command-Option" (or some similar pair of keys) for a second or two, then the help balloon pops up. However, in Nisus, holding down Command, or Shift, or Option will change some of the menu entries. I don't have Helium, but I suspect that this will not interact at all well with balloon help for these items. This isn't "just Nisus" either, since the System 7 Finder also does this with its Clean Up commands, so probably other developers will pick up on this idea. (Developers, take note: Nisus does it better than the Finder. In the Finder you have to be holding the key before you pull down the menu; in Nisus you can pull the menu down first, then watch it change as you press and release keys. Much nicer!) Yes, like everyone else, I keep balloon help off most of the time. I do expect to use it more with the next generation of software, though, and I want to keep it handy. What I'd like to see is a control panel, preferably named "Balloon Help", that I could drop into the Apple Menu. (Obvious icon, right? Balloon help icon with a slider.) Even a novice has a fair chance of finding it in the Apple Menu, and I personally don't toggle it often enough for it to merit a power-key sequence. The control panel might let you set (or turn on/off) something like Helium's magic keys. What I would like to see in a control panel is a settable delay before the balloon pops up (so I don't get a balloon unless I hesitate on something for a second or two without selecting it); I had this on my old Xerox Dandelion, and I MISS IT! -- Dave Matuszek (dave@prc.unisys.com) I don't speak for my employer. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Freedom of speech: 1776-1991. R.I.P. | -------------------------------------------------------------------------
philip@pescadero.Stanford.EDU (Philip Machanick) (06/25/91)
In article <18090@burdvax.PRC.Unisys.COM>, dave@PRC.Unisys.COM (David Lee Matuszek) writes: |> Here's a method in which the flaw is less obvious. I believe that |> with "Helium" you move the mouse to an item and then hold down |> "Command-Option" (or some similar pair of keys) for a second or two, |> then the help balloon pops up. However, in Nisus, holding down |> Command, or Shift, or Option will change some of the menu entries. I |> don't have Helium, but I suspect that this will not interact at all |> well with balloon help for these items. Good point - this is probably why it's configurable. -- Philip Machanick philip@pescadero.stanford.edu