samuels@nosc.mil (06/12/91)
A curious problem related to me over the phone: a friend has System 7 installed and when he looks at System memory usage (in 'About This Macintosh), the System is using 5.8 MB of RAM!! He has a IIci. I had him check the 'Memory' cdev (whoops) and VM is off, 32-bit is off, disk cache = 384 (the default for his machine, I think). He has 12 MB RAM installed - 4 1MB SIMMs, 4 2MB SIMMs. He has a Radius Color Pivot (with a Pivot card) and a FastCache card (64 K). The only INITs (sigh, extensions) he's using is some Radius INIT for their tear-off menus, etc., and a FastCache INIT. (There may have been one or two others, but none unusual - I didn't even memorize which ones they were, they sounded so 'ordinary'). Oh, and he has a DeskWriter, probably uses the HP fonts, if that statement makes sense (I know zip about the DeskWriter, and its fonts, etc.) Any idea why System RAM usage may be so high? Despite his nifty hardware, my friend is sort of a Mac neophyte; I can't see anything he's running that would cause this, unless the INITs I mentioned above are part of it. This is a weird one; I know there's limited information available here (I haven't even examined the setup myself, just got a phone report) - any takers? Larry Samuels samuels@nosc.mil
ejb@think.com (Erik Bailey) (06/12/91)
In article <2042@manta.NOSC.MIL> samuels@nosc.mil writes: >A curious problem related to me over the phone: a friend has System 7 >installed and when he looks at System memory usage (in 'About This >Macintosh'), the System is using 5.8 MB of RAM!! > >He has a IIci. I had him check the 'Memory' cdev (whoops) >and VM is off, 32-bit is off, disk cache = 384 (the default ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >for his machine, I think). He has 12 MB RAM installed - >4 1MB SIMMs, 4 2MB SIMMs. He has >a Radius Color Pivot (with a Pivot card) and a FastCache card (64 K). Try turning 32-bit mode on, and that should solve your problems. The Mac can't address all your memory in 24-bit mode, so the rest is attributed to System. >Larry Samuels >samuels@nosc.mil --Erik -- Erik Bailey | 7 Oak Knoll | Thinking Machines Corp. ejb@think.com | Arlington, MA 02174 | 245 First St. harvard!think!ejb | (617) 643-0732 | Cambridge, MA 02142 /earth is 98% full. Please remove any excess inhabitants.
philip@pescadero.Stanford.EDU (Philip Machanick) (06/13/91)
In article <1991Jun12.165855.16095@Think.COM>, ejb@think.com (Erik Bailey) writes: |> Try turning 32-bit mode on, and that should solve your problems. The Mac |> can't address all your memory in 24-bit mode, so the rest is attributed to |> System. Even more confusing - you can't get more than 8M in 24-bit mode unless you have VM on. Perhaps there should be a more informative message in the About this Macintosh dialog. (e.g., Maximum usable memory with current Memory Control Panel settings: xxxMbytes). Another point: is there any good reason the system doesn't use memory above the 8M limit for the disk cache? It could also use this space for a second-level TrueType font cache. Perhaps this kind of trickery isn't considered worth the effort because everyone will have 32-bit clean machines soon (right?). -- Philip Machanick philip@pescadero.stanford.edu
samuels@nosc.mil (06/13/91)
In article <1991Jun12.175043.17702@neon.Stanford.EDU> philip@pescadero.Stanford.EDU (Philip Machanick) writes: >In article <1991Jun12.165855.16095@Think.COM>, ejb@think.com (Erik Bailey) writes: >|> Try turning 32-bit mode on, and that should solve your problems. The Mac >|> can't address all your memory in 24-bit mode, so the rest is attributed to >|> System. Many thanks to all the folks who pointed this out. I knew it, but didn't think of it - maybe if my IICX ran in 32-bit mode, I'd think of it (hint-hint). (BTW, notice Connectix ad for MODE32 in the new Macuser, in the section on Sys 7 compatibility?!) And now for the second, tragic, part of the story. I just called my friend and said excitedly, proud of having an answer, "Turn 32-bit addressing on and reboot!" OK, he did - and now the mouse cursor is frozen by the Apple menu! Using keys, we can open the Memory CPanel, but can't get to that furshlugginer 24-bit radio button to turn 32-bit off, since the mouse is frozen! I had him try to reboot from a Sys 6 disk, but it opens up a dialog "You're in 32-bit mode. Do you want 24-bit or restart?" and neither button choice is defaulted (he tells me, at least) so he can't reset it that way. I tried zapping the PRAM (I had him hold down Shift-Control-Option - Command (overkill, I know) -p -r keys -was this right? I was/am panicked, by now!) and no help that way. I suppose it';s one of the INITs,, Radius or FastCache. Anyone have a suggestion for what I can do to help him turn off 32-bit addressing long enough to, well, turn it off (in the Memory CPanel, that is)? Thanks for listening. How embaressed I am, what a comedy! Larry Samuels samuels@nosc.mil
raymond@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva) (06/13/91)
From article <1991Jun12.165855.16095@Think.COM>, by ejb@think.com (Erik Bailey): > In article <2042@manta.NOSC.MIL> samuels@nosc.mil writes: > Try turning 32-bit mode on, and that should solve your problems. The Mac > can't address all your memory in 24-bit mode, so the rest is attributed to > System. I keep hearing people saying you can't address more than 8Mb with 24bit addressing. WHY? 24 bits of address gives you 16Mb. What completely brain dead thing has Apple done here or does 24bit addressing actually adress 16Mb and not 8Mb? Raymond. -- Raymond Wilson. email: raymond@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz snail: c/- Computer Science Department, University of Canterbury, New Zealand.
norton@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Norton Chia) (06/13/91)
raymond@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva) writes: >I keep hearing people saying you can't address more than 8Mb with 24bit >addressing. WHY? 24 bits of address gives you 16Mb. >What completely brain dead thing has Apple done here or does 24bit addressing >actually adress 16Mb and not 8Mb? Some nice person will or probably have explained to you the reason or referred you to earlier postings as to why. Maybe one day you'll get to ask nicely. :) -- // Norton Chia || I can be reached via e-mail --> norton@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU / / Micro Support || Yes, this is Australia calling. ////// AppleLink: AUST0240 / / Uni of Sydney || No, I haven't got anything to say but "Thanks", if I forgot //// When I'm talking half way around the world, my employers can't hear me ///
tecot@momenta.com (Ed Tecot) (06/14/91)
philip@pescadero.Stanford.EDU (Philip Machanick) writes: >Another point: is there any good reason the system doesn't use >memory above the 8M limit for the disk cache? It could also use >this space for a second-level TrueType font cache. Perhaps this >kind of trickery isn't considered worth the effort because everyone >will have 32-bit clean machines soon (right?). It can't use this memory for the same reason that the apps can't - it's unable to address it. All of the memory addresses in a stock Mac II class machine are reserved for ROM and I/O. It would take a small portion of the trickery in VM to make it available. Hmmm... Dean? Are you up for it? _emt
tecot@momenta.com (Ed Tecot) (06/14/91)
samuels@nosc.mil writes: >I suppose it';s one of the INITs,, Radius or FastCache. Anyone >have a suggestion for what I can do to help him turn off 32-bit >addressing long enough to, well, turn it off (in the Memory CPanel, >that is)? Two suggestions: 1) Hold down the command option and shift keys while you reboot. This will prevent all extensions from loading (actually only one of these keys is needed, but I forget *which* one). 2) Use Easy Access to manipulate the mouse. Type command-shift-clear to turn on the feature, use the keys around the 5 on the keypad to move the mouse. The 5 key is the mouse button, the 0 locks it down, and the . releases it. _emt
murat@farcomp.UUCP (Murat Konar) (06/18/91)
Ed Tecot writes: > >1) Hold down the command option and shift keys while you reboot. This will >prevent all extensions from loading (actually only one of these keys is >needed, but I forget *which* one). > It's the shift key that prevents extensions from running. -- ____________________________________________________________________ Have a day. :^| Murat N. Konar murat@farcomp.UUCP -or- farcomp!murat@apple.com
mdm@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Michael McDaniel) (06/26/91)
The central problem here is probably *not* the lack of 32-bit addressing. With virtual memory, the system will gobble up as much physical RAM as you have - it uses it for swap space. An si can't have 12 MB of ram anyway unless virtual memory is on, valid ram configurations are 1, 2, 5, 9, and 17 MB. I'll bet it's VM. Michael -- Michael McDaniel mdm@dartmouth.edu Kiewit Consulting Staff - Blitzmail Postmaster Group - Star Trek Fan