chuck@brain.UUCP (Chuck Shotton) (06/25/91)
In article <7709@emory.mathcs.emory.edu>, ospwd@mathcs.emory.edu (Peter Day {EUCC}) writes: > After being amazed that moving the video board to another slot made > MaxAppleZoom (MAZ) start working again, I came up with the following > theory. MAZ has a built-in length of time that it will allow you to try > it. It enforces that time limit by putting the date you first use it > into memory on the video board. Each time you boot, it checks to see if > a date is stored in video memory, and if so, adds the limit to that > date and compares it to your system date. If the system date is greater > than the computed date, it refuses to work. > A) What makes you think there is ANYTHING stored in "RAM" on a video card after the power is shut off? (IS it? Do you know if Toby cards have NV RAM?) B) Why wouldn't MAZ just write the date to its resource fork? C) This theory seems to be predicated on a horrible hack. Not to mention amazing coincidence. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Chuck Shotton Internet: cshotton@girch1.med.uth.tmc.edu BIAP Systems UUCP: ...!buster!brain!chuck "Your silly quote here." AppleLink: D1683 MacNet: shotton
ospwd@mathcs.emory.edu (Peter Day {EUCC}) (06/25/91)
After being amazed that moving the video board to another slot made MaxAppleZoom (MAZ) start working again, I came up with the following theory. MAZ has a built-in length of time that it will allow you to try it. It enforces that time limit by putting the date you first use it into memory on the video board. Each time you boot, it checks to see if a date is stored in video memory, and if so, adds the limit to that date and compares it to your system date. If the system date is greater than the computed date, it refuses to work. I can make some predictions based on this theory. (1) Everyone who had MAZ fail after the same date started using MAZ on the same date. (2) If MAZ stops working, you can make it start working again by removing the video card and replacing it in the SAME slot, since removing the card apparently clears the memory where MAZ keeps its date. (3) After resetting the video memory, you can determine the date it will stop working again by moving the Mac clock forward a year until it fails, then using a binary search to find the exact date. -- Peter Day | DOMAIN: ospwd@emoryu1.cc.emory.edu ITD -- Uppergate House | UUCP: gatech!emoryu1!ospwd Emory University | BITNET: ospwd@emoryu1 Atlanta, GA 30322 | PHONE: +1 404 727-7678 FAX: +1 404 727-2599
mxmora@unix.SRI.COM (Matt Mora) (06/26/91)
In article <7709@emory.mathcs.emory.edu> ospwd@mathcs.emory.edu (Peter Day {EUCC}) writes: >(2) If MAZ stops working, you can make it start working again by >removing the video card and replacing it in the SAME slot, since >removing the card apparently clears the memory where MAZ keeps its >date. > >(3) After resetting the video memory, you can determine the date it >will stop working again by moving the Mac clock forward a year >until it fails, then using a binary search to find the exact date. I got a crazy idea, How about sending your shareware fee to the author? :-) Maybe then he will send you a full working copy if what you descibe is true. Matt -- ___________________________________________________________ Matthew Mora | my Mac Matt_Mora@sri.com SRI International | my unix mxmora@unix.sri.com ___________________________________________________________
ospwd@mathcs.emory.edu (Peter Day {EUCC}) (06/26/91)
> From: chuck@brain.UUCP (Chuck Shotton) > A) What makes you think there is ANYTHING stored in "RAM" on a video > card after the power is shut off? (IS it? Do you know if Toby cards > have NV RAM?) How can removing the video card and putting it back in make a difference? Also, after the card is replaced, the display reverts to black and white and must be reset to color. Clearly some stored information got lost. Perhaps NV RAM in the Mac related to the display gets cleared, and that's where the date is stored. > B) Why wouldn't MAZ just write the date to its resource fork? Replacing MAZ with a fresh copy did not fix the problem. Thus it had not written the date to itself. > C) This theory seems to be predicated on a horrible hack. Not to > mention amazing coincidence. It is the only explanation I can propose which fits the facts. > From: mxmora@unix.SRI.COM (Matt Mora) > > I got a crazy idea, How about sending your shareware fee to the > author? :-) I did, since I have used up my evaluation period and want to keep using it. However, I think it is fun to try and figure out what is going on based only on experiments. I proposed a theory which makes predictions that you can test. > Maybe then he will send you a full working copy if what you descibe is > true. I hope so. I asked him for one. -- Peter Day | DOMAIN: ospwd@emoryu1.cc.emory.edu ITD -- Uppergate House | UUCP: gatech!emoryu1!ospwd Emory University | BITNET: ospwd@emoryu1 Atlanta, GA 30322 | PHONE: +1 404 727-7678 FAX: +1 404 727-2599
huff@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu (Edward J. Huff) (06/26/91)
In article <7723@emory.mathcs.emory.edu>, ospwd@mathcs.emory.edu (Peter Day {EUCC}) writes: >> From: chuck@brain.UUCP (Chuck Shotton) > >> A) What makes you think there is ANYTHING stored in "RAM" on a video >> card after the power is shut off? (IS it? Do you know if Toby cards >> have NV RAM?) > > How can removing the video card and putting it back in make a > difference? Also, after the card is replaced, the display reverts to > black and white and must be reset to color. Clearly some stored > information got lost. Perhaps NV RAM in the Mac related to the display > gets cleared, and that's where the date is stored. > Page 127 of Designing Cards and Drivers for the Macintosh Family, Second Edition, states "There are six bytes reserved in the parameter RAM (PRAM) of a Macintosh II-family computer for each slot. ... Initialization occurs when the Macintosh Operating System detects a card for the first time or when the Slot Manager finds a BoardId in a Board sResource that is different from the BoardId in the corresponding sPRAMInit record." It sounds like the software is using the PRAM bytes. Not very nice, since that space is supposed to be used by the card's driver software.
rob@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Robert K Shull) (06/26/91)
In article <7709@emory.mathcs.emory.edu> ospwd@mathcs.emory.edu (Peter Day {EUCC}) writes: >After being amazed that moving the video board to another slot made >MaxAppleZoom (MAZ) start working again, I came up with the following There's a discussion of this going on on CompuServe right now. The latest piece of info seems to indicated that (1) this is an obscure bug and (2) you can fix it temporarily by moving your video card to a higher numbered slot. The message (from John Moran on CIS) went something like this... MAZ quit working with cards in slot 1 at 13:24:16 on 6/22/91. Each higher slot adds 12 days 3 hours 16 minutes and 16 seconds to the expiration time (it was pointed out in another message that this is 2^20 seconds) Based on this (and his testing) he points out that MAZ running on a card in slot 6 will work until 05:45:38 on 8/22/91. Note also that the bug affects only the installation, not the operation of MAZ. On another note, no one has heard from the author of MAZ, or had a shareware check cashed, in the last 3 months or so. Robert -- Robert K. Shull rob@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu
dorner@pequod.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Dorner) (06/26/91)
In article <1991Jun26.071059.1@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu> huff@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu (Edward J. Huff) writes: >It sounds like the software is using the PRAM bytes. Not very nice, since >that space is supposed to be used by the card's driver software. In other circumstances, I'd agree. But MaxAppleZoom only works because it knows intimate details about the card & driver anyway, so using a bit of PRAM may not be so bad. -- Steve Dorner, U of Illinois Computing Services Office Internet: s-dorner@uiuc.edu UUCP: uunet!uiucuxc!uiuc.edu!s-dorner
ospwd@mathcs.emory.edu (Peter Day {EUCC}) (06/26/91)
In article <7709@emory.mathcs.emory.edu>, ospwd@mathcs.emory.edu (Peter Day {EUCC}) writes: : > I can make some predictions based on this theory. : > (2) If MAZ stops working, you can make it start working again by > removing the video card and replacing it in the SAME slot, since > removing the card apparently clears the memory where MAZ keeps its > date. Based on the following note, I tested my above prediction, and it was NOT confirmed. When I put the card back in slot 1, MAZ stopped working. So my theory is not correct. Date: Wed, 26 Jun 91 07:58:06 CDT From: John R. Howell <jrh@de.deere.com> MaxAppleZoom appears to have some strange bug in it that causes it to stop working after a certain date. The date is dependent on which NuBus slot your video card is in. If your card is in slot 1, MaxAppleZoom stops working on June 22, 1991. If you move your card to a higher slot you will gain approximately 12 days (10^20 seconds) before MaxAppleZoom quits for each slot you move. So you can still use MaxAppleZoom until some time towards the end of August if your card is in slot 6. You can always set your clock back also. Hopefully by the time the last slot runs out, someone will have heard from Naoto on how to fix this problem. John -- Peter Day | DOMAIN: ospwd@emoryu1.cc.emory.edu ITD -- Uppergate House | UUCP: gatech!emoryu1!ospwd Emory University | BITNET: ospwd@emoryu1 Atlanta, GA 30322 | PHONE: +1 404 727-7678 FAX: +1 404 727-2599
rrr@u02.svl.cdc.com (Rich Ragan) (06/27/91)
In <7726@emory.mathcs.emory.edu> ospwd@mathcs.emory.edu (Peter Day {EUCC}) writes: >MaxAppleZoom appears to have some strange bug in it that causes it to >stop working after a certain date. The date is dependent on which >NuBus slot your video card is in. If your card is in slot 1, >MaxAppleZoom stops working on June 22, 1991. If you move your card to >a higher slot you will gain approximately 12 days (10^20 seconds) >before MaxAppleZoom quits for each slot you move. So you can still use >MaxAppleZoom until some time towards the end of August if your card is >in slot 6. You can always set your clock back also. >Hopefully by the time the last slot runs out, someone will have heard >from Naoto on how to fix this problem. I don't run MaxAppleZoom anymore because it won't work with 2 monitors. However, Monday the problem surfaced for some folks and my immediate fix was to replace MAZ with a new copy on the theory that it got munged. Sure enough, that cured the problem. Having watched this discussion, all talk seems to be about versions 1.2 and 1.3. The version that I used for replacement is labeled 1.31. I wonder if it has different behavior than 1.3? I can't remember now where I got it from although I vaguely recall maybe getting it from America Online which I visit infrequently. BTW, one of the folks here who has paid the author has heard nothing from him about upgrades, date problems or anything (for what it's worth). -- Richard R. Ragan rrr@svl.cdc.com (408) 496-4340 Control Data Corporation - Silicon Valley Operations 5101 Patrick Henry Drive, Santa Clara, CA 95054-1111
gillies@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Don Gillies) (06/27/91)
I sent the author of MAZ a check for $25, and I also sent him a copy of the "FixMax" init (which fixes the banding on the right hand side of the screen in monochrome mode). This was three months ago. I have heard nothing from the author. Don Gillies - gillies@cs.uiuc.edu - University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign --
cbm@well.sf.ca.us (Chris Muir) (06/27/91)
In article <25760@unix.SRI.COM> mxmora@unix.sri.com (Matt Mora) writes: >I got a crazy idea, How about sending your shareware fee to the author? :-) > >Maybe then he will send you a full working copy if what you descibe >is true. I am a registered M.A.Z. user and I never got anything other than a postcard to acknowlidge that I had registered. I think this is just a very unfortunate bug. On CI$ people have discovered that each slot is 2^20 seconds away from each other in time, with the slot nearest the power supply being the earliest. 2^20 seconds is about 12 days, so about July 4th we should see another batch of failures. -- __________________________________________________________________________ Chris Muir | "There is no language in our cbm@well.sf.ca.us | lungs to tell the world just {hplabs,pacbell,ucbvax,apple}!well!cbm | how we feel" - A. Partridge