a544@mindlink.UUCP (Rick McCormack) (05/03/90)
I have heard from one who tried this unit, and their main comment was that it
was a good machine. Their major disappointment: they used the PC emulator, and
found it only supported CGA screens in the PC mode. They said it was a real
drawback, but it might be rectified with the new software. ("They" are a group
of multi-media users in an instructional media centre at a university.) I know
its got my interest piqued. (I'm a Plus owner.)bparsia@eagle.wesleyan.edu (05/04/90)
Having followed the Amiga 3000 post in comp.sys.amiga, and having just read the Byte article on the same, and having seen the Wall Street journal add on the very same, I now post. What do people think about this machine? On the cover of Byte the byline is "Mac II power...at a Commadore price". From what I can tell, this just might be the case. It has a '030 running at 16 or 25 mhz, enhanced special chips for everything from DMA to graphic acceleration. It comes with 16-bit (I think-4090 colors) color *standard*, though it cannot be upgrade futher (at least, not with any ease), yet how many people would just like *some* color and don't really need 24-bit color (after all, up until recently, a Mac II could only access 8-bit color--256 colors at one time). The operating system has been enhanced in many ways including a preferences option which allows one to change various aspects of the GUI (something badly needed as a standard feature on the mac--the shareware stuff is nice, but often it causes endless trouble and can be difficult for many of us to get a hold of), the famed multitaking, and a macro language that allows the welding of many small programs into a large, multifunction one that takes advantages of the new, standardized file formats. All this, and more, for around and under $3000 list (with, I might add, *excellant* upgrade offers). (Note: All this stuff above is hearsay. I haven't seen the machine, and I don't know much about it. I can't even be sure that I remember what I seem to know correctly. Take it all with salt.) I'm curious about a few things (and I'm sure everyone is wondering why I post this article in the mac section): 1) What do people think this machine will mean to us as Mac users? Will it force Apple to lower prices? What will this mean for the 'multimedia' hype (C= is marketing the A3000 as the ideal multimedia machince)? 2) If mac emulation comes to this powerhouse (as I'm sure it will) will the A3000 become the Mac II clone many of us would like? 3) Now that C= has a great high-end machine, will the lack of a low-end Mac entice people into investing in Amigas as they have a complete (and cheaper) line? I think that this thing is important to us as Mac users, and should be (nicely) discussed. I think the mac could be much improved by ideas from the Amiga *and* from the price/power/performace standard that C= has set up. I invite responses. Bijan J. Parsia
daveo@Apple.COM (David M. O'Rourke) (05/05/90)
In my *PERSONAL* (read this isn't apple saying this) opinion it doesn't
mean anything until they get some software standards that the business
community is willing to accept. The Mac's had a hard enough time being
accepted by businesses. Until Commador loses it's "game machine" image,
acurate or not, I don't think it means much.
The Amiga doesn't have near the software industry support that the Mac
enjoy's, and the software industry doesn't recieve the support from
Commador that Mac developer's enjoy. So until those two problem get fixed
Commador can come out with hardware all it wants...
But that's just *MY* opinion...
--
daveo@apple.com David M. O'Rourke
"Hey where'd you learn to shoot like that?" ... "At the 7-11."
-- Marty McFly (Back to the future III)
_______________________________________________________________________________
I do not speak for Apple in any official sense.ins_apw@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU (Philip Wong) (05/05/90)
I asked the same question on the amiga sub and they were very nice about helping me out. It seems that the advantages to the amiga are many--including multi- tasking and graphics features. The disadvantages are the number of colors. The consensus says that if you are looking for a low cost mac, then that's the wrong way to go. A mac emulator is availiable, but is somewhat limited in that it doesn't recognize a hd yet...there were rumors about a new more conprehensive emulator, but it's still only rumors. If you are looking for an amiga that can use some mac programs...like excel or writenow or word...then go with the amiga. thanks to the amiga people who helped me out (if you are reading this) ins_apw@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu
eb1z+@andrew.cmu.edu (Edward Joseph Bennett) (05/07/90)
>What do people think about this machine? On the cover of Byte the byline is >"Mac II power...at a Commadore price". From what I can tell, this just might be >the case. It has a '030 running at 16 or 25 mhz, enhanced special chips for >everything from DMA to graphic acceleration. It comes with 16-bit (I >think-4090 colors) >color *standard*, though it cannot be upgrade futher (at least, not with any >ease), yet how many people would just like *some* color and don't really need >24-bit color (after all, up until recently, a Mac II could only access 8-bit >color--256 colors at one time). Question: Does Commadore offer any additional educational discount? If not it won't have much impact on the educational (higher education) market because I can get at Mac IIcx for $2724.00 or a 25MHz MacIIci with built in 8 bit video for $3658.00 Some comments on the A3000: 1) It is 16 MHz, not 25 MHz. So it is more akin to a IIcx than a IIci 2) I read the article in Byte also and I thought they said it was 6 bit (64 colors) out of a choice of 4090 and it is not (a least not straightforwardly) ugradable (I'm sure there are ways around it). If this is true, then I would say this is its biggest weakness (especially considering it targeted for multimedia) 3) It's support of premptive multitasking is probably one of its strongest points. Some more questions: _ just to what extent can Amigas emulate Macs? I Think the Atari ST can do a pretty good job of emulating a plus from what I hear. If it can only emulate a Plus then I don't think it will carry much weight as far a clone goes. (Especially since it looks like the Plus's days are numbered, It would really have to be able to emulate the MacII seris to be a serious low cost clone.) Also: Could Mac applications take advantage of its multitasking capabilities? - Does the Amiga have any slots? If so how many, what kind (are the compatible with NuBus?) and what's available for them.) I would like to get to play with one so I could evaluate its GUI in comparison to the Macs. I think the real question is: Will Apple deliver any time soon on any of the low cost machines that I have been hearing about. Ex: '020 Modular Mac with built in 4 bit color for $1500 with a Apple IIe compatable card and possiblely an optional CD ROM built in. I've also heard rumors of '030 machines in $2000 range. If Apple is really diverting attention to the low cost market like they say and really deliver one of these rumored machines this fall. If Apple gives us one of these machines then I think they will minimize the impact of the A3000 and we may be talking about the impact of the low cost Mac on the Amiga, PC /DOS machines, Atari, etc. If not the Amiga could potentially do damage (or potentially help if it a true clone) if Apple is just talking about low cost machines. The ball is basically in Apples court. If they deliver on their promise to devote effort to the low end then I think the A3000 will not impact the Mac, If they don't then it will have some impact. Also important: when will 7.0 make it out and how much will it enhance the Macs attractiveness. Ed P.S. I think the A3000 will impact the Apple II line and k-12 markets immediately.
broe@plains.UUCP (Paul Broe) (05/08/90)
In article (Edward Joseph Bennett) totally loses it:(sorry, his address got
munged)
<If not it won't have much impact on the educational (higher education)
<market because I can get at Mac IIcx for $2724.00 or a 25MHz MacIIci
<with built in 8 bit video for $3658.00
Yes, it is on the educational discount. The exact pricing should be available
later this month. (At least that's what I hear.)
<Some comments on the A3000:
< 1) It is 16 MHz, not 25 MHz. So it is more akin to a IIcx than a IIci
WRONG! There are *TWO* versions, a 16 MHz version *AND* a 25 MHz version.
< 3) It's support of premptive multitasking is probably one Of its
<strongest points.
And a strong point it is.
<Some more questions:
<_ just to what extent can Amigas emulate Macs? I Think the Atari ST can
<do a pretty good job of emulating a plus from what I hear. If it can
<only emulate a Plus then I don't think it will carry much weight as far
<a clone goes. (Especially since it looks like the Plus's days are
<numbered, It would really have to be able to emulate the MacII seris to
<be a serious low cost clone.) Also: Could Mac applications take
<advantage of its multitasking capabilities?
Currently only a Mac Plus. As for the future...?
<- Does the Amiga have any slots? If so how many, what kind (are the
<compatible with NuBus?) and what's available for them.)
Yes, there are slots. One CPU slot (for later upgrade, e.g. 68040 board).
Four Zorro III slots (16/32 bit to remain compatible with Zorro II boards).
Two PC AT slots.
The above is for the Amiga 3000, directly from Commodore's booklet.
No, they are not compatible with NuBus. (Maybe an expansion chassis?)
<I would like to get to play with one so I could evaluate its GUI in
<comparison to the Macs.
A lot of people would like to get to play with one, me included (see .sig).
<'030 machines in $2000 range. If Apple is really diverting attention to
<the low cost market like they say and really deliver one of these
<rumored machines this fall. If Apple gives us one of these machines then
Apple make a *LOW COST* machine? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
(Not a flame, really... I have an SE. I can't afford a good (IIci on up) II.)
Hope this answered some of your questions.
--
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/ "I have seen my next computer, and it is the Amiga 3000." - me /
/ "All men are cremated equal." MS-DOS... ick! <broe@plains.nodak.edu> /
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