hill@petsd.UUCP (John S. Hill) (05/29/90)
Wow - I certainly seem to have picked a topic that a lot of people have an opinion on! I'd like to thank everyone who responded to my question. I now have more than enough info on the topic, so as promised, here is a (somewhat long) summation of the responses that I've received. In summarizing I decided to create three sections. The first contains my original question for those who may have missed it. The second contains my comments on the the responses, and the third contains the actual email that I received (cut down to fit). SECTION 1: ========== > Now since the old Edit 2.1 has stopped working reliably under 6.0.4, I'm > looking for a replacement text editor. What I'd really like is a no frills > editor, which does most of the things that Edit does. What I really like > about Edit is that it only reads a portion the file into memory, it allows > multiple files to be open at once and breaks the 32k limit. I would also > prefer the editor to be an application rather than a DA. Other things, like > being able to select fonts/sizes, insert real tabs instead of spaces, and > other typical mac-like things are necessary also. Programming features like > fence matching, grep searches, etc. are nice but not crucial. I have/have > seen the following editors: MicroEmacs, Jove, steVIe, MockWrite, PowerEdit, > and SigmaEdit. While emacs and its clones are by far my favorite editors > under Unix, I'd prefer a more or less mac-like editor on the mac. This rules > out the first two. The others for various reasons, don't do it for me. I > don't really care whether or not the editor is commercial, shareware, or pd. > Incidentally, I don't consider TeachText to be a text editor - I consider it > to be more or less a piece of crap, and I generally avoid it. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= SECTION 2: ========== Most people that responded recommended QUED-M (and/or the Nisus word processor), and MPW. Other editors recommended were Medit, Vantage/McSink DAs, Preditor, and ASLEdit+. There was also a recommendation to use my favorite word processor, and save as text only. The main problem with the above (except for the last suggestion and MPW), is that all the editors mentioned are RAM based. Now I've got plenty of memory, but it just goes against the grain for me to believe that a simple text editor has to be fed half a meg of memory or more to be able to comfortably do what good old Edit 2.1 did in a quarter meg of memory. I am interested in QUED-M and/or Nisus, and I did price them (QUED-M 2.07 @ $109 from MacWarehouse, and Nisus 2.03 @ $249 from MacConnection), but the prices seem a little steep for my purposes. The price of $109 for a text editor also goes against the same grain as above. At this time, I'm not real interested in MPW. I am very happy w/ Think C 4.0, and the idea of getting a development system (even if it's just the shell) to do simple text editing is a bit much. I am aware that MPW allows one to do all sorts of good things in addition to text editing, but I don't really need this now. One person did suggest that a new version of Edit comes with Consulair's assembly language development system (CDS), but again, I don't really need a development system to do simple text editing. Medit didn't interest me because, according the the description that I received, it doesn't deal with > 32K files nicely. It seems that it breaks the file into 32K chunks. The Vantage/McSink pairs don't really do it for me, mostly because they are DA's, and I want to double click on a document to open it, and not have to pull down the apple menu and select the file that way. I have tried out McSink in the past, and while it is very complete, it was not without its problems. I found a copy of the Preditor demo (full featured, just doesn't save), and it is a *very* complete programming editor. My only problem with it is that it does things using non standard MacOS calls. For example, hierarchical menus are implemented, but are very obviously not standard. This does allow the editor to function on old machines/systems, but you sort of wonder whether it isn't doomed to fail under system 7. As one person said (see below) this editor does seem to suffer from Microslow disease - "...too many features badly integrated...". If anyone is interested (and I hope that people aren't too turned off by my comments), it is (from the docs included w/ the demo) "$90 retail, but for a limited time (don't know how limited - doesn't say) it's $65. Orders may be placed from Evatac Software, P.O. Box 219093, Portland, OR 97725. I found a copy of ASLEdit+, and even though it is memory based, it is a simple editor, which does what I want. For the time being, it will be my editor. My only complaint with it, is that it wants to default to a font that is supplied with the editor - ASLFont+. If this font isn't installed, the next default is 9 point Chicago - not a very happy choice. If the font is installed, however, everything works just fine. The editor puts the same resources into the text files as Edit 2.1 (NFNT and NTAB - I think) so tab settings and font choices should be preserved between the two editors. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= SECTION 3: ========== > From: rutgers!shape.mps.ohio-state.edu!edgar > There is MPW, available from APDA. It is (among other things) a > programmable text editor, and it has ALL your features: === > From: rutgers!garnet.berkeley.edu!bmug > Since you didn't mention "free" as being a criterion, the best text editor > by far is Qued-M, by Paragon, Inc. It's both as Mac-like as a text editor > can be, and extremely powerful. Most programmers I know swear by it (not > at it). > Incidentally, if you're also looking for a full-featured word processor > with most of the power of Qued-M (including macros and grep-style > search/replace), Nisus 2.03 (soon 3.0), also from Paragon, is something > you should look at. > John Heckendorn === > From: rutgers!cs.ualberta.ca!simon > Hi: I have used most of the editors you mentioned and they all seem to > fall short of the features of QUED/M: *very* typical Mac interface, > full GREP, multi-file searches (easy to do!), beaucoup windows (I have > opened 40 at once: it makes little windows for you), etc., etc., plus > does auto backups to copies, or what ever you want, plus support for > ASCII table entries, stripping non-text, etc.,etc, macros, tabs, choose > your font: just take a look at it! > The only drawback is that it is memory based, so you might have trouble with > very large files if you do not have enough memory. This gives it > great speed, though. I used to keep Edit2.1 around to open up my 5+ Mbyte > text files, but now I use the MPW editor for that. > W. Simon Tortike === > From: rutgers!boulder.colorado.edu!tramp!kassarji > You might consider Medit (with macros). The latest version I've seen is 1.5. > Medit does not 'break' the 32Kb barrier, but partitions each file into 32Kb > segments, which seems to work well enough. > It is available for anonymous ftp from sumex-aim. > Hope this helps. > STEVEN J KASSARJIAN === > From: tinton!raven.phys.washington.edu!owen > I use Qued/M, by Paragon. It's main flaw is it reads files into memory > (no 32k limit, but still, it's a limit, esp. under multifinder). > It has the advantage that the file cannot be corrupted if the Mac crashes > (not that Qued ever crashes -- it's the most solid program I've ever used). > Anyway, it'll be no hassle with virtual memory! > Advantages: > - grep (good) > - macros (mediocre, but much better than nothing) > - unlimited undos (wonderful) > - auto-indent, split windows, etc. > An update is due which should make it even nicer (but not change file/memory > handling). Unfortunately, they're too busy with Nisus 3, so it could be > awhile. > Also try Preditor, a new text editor. It has even more features. > I do NOT know if it reads the whole file in. I do not know how solid it is. > I like some things it does, but I found the user interface rather clumsy > (sort of the Microsoft disease -- too many features badly integrated). > A subsequent release may have cleaned it up. Try it out. > Vantage DA is also fine. You can open big files with it (I don't know if > there's a limit or not). It's a DA and rather slow. Odd interface. > No sensible text wrap, although I heard they'll fix that in a later release. > All are reasonably priced. I'm not positive where to get Preditor > (ask the net?). The others can be had from the usual places. > Russell === > From: rutgers!eniac.seas.upenn.edu!binder > Take a look at ASLEdit+ on sumex. I just downloaded it & love it, although > I believe it IS a memory based editor. It is fast, simple and in both DA > and application form. Oh! It's for free, too! (:-) Can't beat the price to > check it out. I'm not sure which directory it's in though. > Tim === > From: rutgers!grad1.cis.upenn.edu!grobbins > Outside of Apple's MPW editor, there are Preditor (a programmer's editor > which has had good reviews), QUED/M (quite popular, and includes a grep- > superset and macros) and Nisus (which is QUED/M with zillions of word- > processing features added on.) A free demo disk of Nisus is available > from Paragon Concepts (619-481-1477). QUED/M and Nisus offer many slick > features for editing (including unlimited undo) and for working with > many files at once (editing in inactive windows, compare, sync scrolling, > multiple-file open, search through multiple unopen files, and so on.) > I haven't played with Preditor. QUED/M is about $125 retail; Nisus > is a way-expensive retail $400 (except for students.) > Check out your local computer store, or give some place with a money-back > guarantee (like MacConnection) a call. > Grobbins === > From: rutgers!psuvax1.cs.psu.edu!ultb!jjw7384 > I've heard great things about QUED/M from the same folks that wrote > Nissus. I guess it's got macros (that's the /m) and a grep-like search > function, along with multi windows and lots o' other programmer type > stuff. === > From: rutgers!u.washington.edu!dmoore > Why not use your favorite word processor in text only mode. MS Word can read > and write files as plain ascii text. (You cannot, however, save font changes. > Word wrapping is also a bit disorienting when working with files that have > long lines.) What exactly do you mean by mac-like? Is it the multiple > windows (as opposed to split windows like in Emacs)? Word certainly has the > features you mention. I would imagine other word processors could do as > well if you hate Word or can't afford it. Well, it was just a thought. I > never spent much time with Edit myself and now that it isn't up to date I > suppose I never will, but it seemed to me that it really wasn't that great. > Can't Emacs do what you want? If you do hear of an editor that outperforms > those you mentioned, please let me know. In the meantime, I'll struggle > along with sigmaEdit microEmacs and the editor in LSC's development system. > David Moore === > Of course, if you really like Edit, you could get the latest version (6.0, I > think - my copy's at home). As far as I know, the only surviving way of buying > it is to get Consulair's assembly language development system (CDS) - which > is a fair amount cheaper than MPW (about $90 from APDA, or MacWarehouse sells > the 68020/30 version for $115). > Philip Machanick === > How about either Sigma Edit or McSink (both DAs). McSink is known as > something else commercially, I can't remember. McSink is in my opinion > much better than Edit 2.1 and since it's a DA it's very convenient. > Jeff Haferman === > From: rutgers!elbereth.rutgers.edu!joseph > There is a very good series of editors called QUED and QUED/M I > think they are just what you want. They are commercial, and very > professionally done. QUED/M includes macro capabilities. Call the > publisher, Paragon Concepts at (619) 481-1477 for more info, or call > MacConnection and see if they will sell it to you with their free 30 > day evaluation plan. If you don't like it you might be able to send > it back within 30 days for a complete refund. > Seymour === > From: tinton!phoenix.princeton.edu!aabd > Try QUED/M from Paragon Systems, the same people that make Nisus. > It offers all the things that you said you liked, plus a bunch. > QUED stands for Quality Editor for Developers, and M for macros. > It believe it is quite inexpensive, and I think they still make > an even cheaper version without the macro features. > Adam === -- +=====================================+=======================================+ | Mustang GT, there is no substitute. | Go Eagles, Flyers, Phillies, Sixers, | | - "Risky Business", paraphrased. | and Wings! 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