gampell@hpccc.HP.COM (David J. Gampell) (07/24/90)
I am posting this for my sister-in-law, so the details may be sketchy... She has been experiencing annoying and unusual crashes with her SE and the *manufacturer's* versions of Microsoft Word 4.0 and ThinkC. She is using Finder and System 6.02. The symptoms are as follows. In Microsoft Word, after many selections, menu picks, etc., the program suddenly crashes (but not all the time!) The bomb comes up and an unusual buzzing sound emanates from the computer. The display also flickers quickly. With the ThinkC program, the same flicker and buzzing occurs, but there is no rhyme or reason to when it happens. I'm just an electrical engineer :-) but this sounds to me like a hardware problem of some kind (esp. the buzzing!) Has anyone on the net experienced this kind of problem before? Any and all help appreciated. Thanks, Dave Gampell dave@hpoclpa.hp.com (408) 435-6680 Disclaimer: Stop what you're doing and get back to work!
gampell@hpccc.HP.COM (David J. Gampell) (07/25/90)
THANKS to all for e-mailing me so many responses so quickly! They're probably still rolling in, but I thought I'd post what I've received up to now. The leading contenders appear to be viruses and/or INITs. My sister-in-law's SE has been disinfected by SAM---is there any reason to suppose this wouldn't catch the viruses that could be causing the problem? I'm leaning toward INITs; although I'm not completely sure, I believe she does have some non-standard INITs that may indeed be responsible. The third place culprit is the system software itself...this will be a last-resort solution for her, since the time involved is lengthy. Again, THANKS TO ALL ON THE NET ! ! ! Regards, Dave Gampell dave@hpoclpa.hp.com (408)435-6680 Disclaimer: HP says, "Stop what you're doing and get back to work!" -------------------- From PSCCHRIS@ubvmsc.cc.buffalo.edu Tue Jul 24 13:55 PDT 1990 Received: from hp-sde.sde.hp.com by hpoclpa.HP.COM; Tue, 24 Jul 90 13:55:33 pdt Received: from ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu by hp-sde.sde.hp.com with SMTP (16.3/15.5+IOS 3.13) id AA11398; Tue, 24 Jul 90 13:54:39 -0700 Date: Tue, 24 Jul 90 16:40 EST From: PSCCHRIS@ubvmsc.cc.buffalo.edu Subject: SE crashes To: dave@hpoclpa.hp.COM Message-Id: <5D73F092D5FF804F6F@UBVMS.BITNET> X-Organization: University at Buffalo X-Envelope-To: dave@hpoclpa.hp.COM X-Vms-To: IN%"dave@hpoclpa.hp.com" Ugly, isn't it? My SE crashed similarly, along with other peculiar symptoms. After much consulting, I replaced the 1 meg SIMMs ( I had upgraded to 2.5) and so far (only a few weeks), the number of crashes is way down (although still not 0). There is one application (O.K., it's a game) that still crashes in about the manner you mention, but Word and most other stuff run fine. Bottom line: probably a hardware problem, maybe the SIMMs, but you're sure to get more knowledgable answers. Either mail me or post a summary if something good surfaces. Good luck Chris Holoman Dept of Political Science University at Buffalo Pscchris@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu Ooops-add "s" to "run" above From ladd@uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu Tue Jul 24 15:41 PDT 1990 Received: from hp-sde.sde.hp.com by hpoclpa.HP.COM; Tue, 24 Jul 90 15:41:15 pdt Received: from uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu by hp-sde.sde.hp.com with SMTP (16.3/15.5+IOS 3.13) id AA13899; Tue, 24 Jul 90 15:40:19 -0700 Received: by uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (5.61/Ultrix3.1) id AA06895; Tue, 24 Jul 90 12:38:46 -1000 Date: Tue, 24 Jul 1990 12:38:45 GMT-10:00 From: Dennis Ladd <ladd@uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu> To: dave@hpoclpa.hp.com Subject: Buzzing Mac Message-Id: <CMM.0.88.648859125.ladd@uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu> Dave Gampell-- I had the exact same thing happen to me on my Plus three times in the past year. In manoa Valley where I live in Hawaii, we have a lot of power brownouts. The first two times were during a particularly bad week. This last time was when I had the TV and the Plus on at the same time on the same line, watching the Nagoya Sumo wrestling tournament. Maybe all that excess poundage did it in. The week we got full power back everything was fine and turning off the TV and rebooting got me going again. I would be interested in seeing a post of all the answers you get. --Dennis Ladd From @hp-sde.sde.hp.com,@CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu:OWEN@uwastm.phys.washington.edu Tue Jul 24 17:47 PDT 1990 Received: from hpccc.HP.COM by hpoclpa.HP.COM; Tue, 24 Jul 90 17:47:48 pdt Received: from hp-sde.sde.hp.com by hpccc.HP.COM; Tue, 24 Jul 90 17:46:53 pdt Received: from CORNELLC.CIT.CORNELL.EDU by hp-sde.sde.hp.com with SMTP (16.3/15.5+IOS 3.13) id AA15908; Tue, 24 Jul 90 17:46:40 -0700 Message-Id: <9007250046.AA15908@hp-sde.sde.hp.com> Received: from phast.phys.washington.edu by CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu (IBM VM SMTP R1.2.1MX) with BSMTP id 7784; Tue, 24 Jul 90 20:42:14 EDT Date: Tue, 24 Jul 90 17:43 PST From: Russell Owen <OWEN%uwastm.phys.washington.edu@CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu> Subject: SE crashes To: gampell@hpccc.HP.COM X-Vms-To: IN%"gampell@hpccc.HP.COM" Some things to try: 1) if using Multifinder, go to Finder and select About Finder... this brings up a bar graph showing memory usage. See if System is almost out of memory (bar mostly black, very little white). Ideally there should be about 25% white. Anyway, if low, this can cause random crashes. To fix, get HeapFixer (possibly download from sumex-aim, or I may be able to legally send a copy, I can check). Mostly this occurs if you use a lot of INITs, otherwise it should not occur. 2) Corrupted system software. Delete System and Finder and reinstall the software (this requires original Apple system disks, and some patience). It is NOT good enough to simply re-install over the existing system and finder, and existing corrupted resources will still be there. 3) Virus. Not all that likely, but might as well get Disinfectant 2.0 (from sumex-aim.stanford.edu or wherever) and run it. It's free, and well worth the time spent. While you're at it, choose "install INIT" and you'll be protected against infection from KNOWN viruses (not as safe as Gatekeeper and other protecters, but also not as annoying; read the docs). 4) Hardware problems, as you speculate. Talk to a shop, preferably NOT an Apple Authorized Dealer, since they don't know how to actually FIX things, just swap boards. Maybe check the power supply voltage? But my guess is a software problem -- that buzzing and flickering screen usually means some system memory has been overwritten. -- Russell From Tom.Lane@ZOG.CS.CMU.EDU Tue Jul 24 17:47 PDT 1990 Received: from hpccc.HP.COM by hpoclpa.HP.COM; Tue, 24 Jul 90 17:47:53 pdt Received: from hp-sde.sde.hp.com by hpccc.HP.COM; Tue, 24 Jul 90 17:46:32 pdt Received: from ZOG.CS.CMU.EDU by hp-sde.sde.hp.com with SMTP (16.3/15.5+IOS 3.13) id AA15902; Tue, 24 Jul 90 17:46:18 -0700 Date: Tue, 24 Jul 1990 20:29-EDT From: Tom.Lane@ZOG.CS.CMU.EDU To: "David J. Gampell" <gampell@hpccc.HP.COM> Subject: Re: Buzz, Buzz ?! Message-Id: <648865753/tgl@ZOG.CS.CMU.EDU> In-Reply-To: David J. Gampell's netnews message of 24 Jul 90 16:13:20 GMT Dave, I doubt your sister-in-law has hardware problems. The flickering and buzzing are fairly common byproducts of Mac system crashes, as both the video and audio outputs are memory-mapped. Apparently it's pretty easy to start fetching instructions from the audio output registers :-) Assuming that she has clean copies of Word and Think C, it could be that her problems are due to using System 6.0.2, which is now a rather old version. She should check with Microsoft and Symantec to see if there are any known compatibility problems there; if so, upgrade to a more recent System release. A much more likely cause is that she has an incompatible set of INITs. INIT-writing is nearly as much of a black art as writing TSRs for PCs, if you are familiar with that marketplace (and for much the same reasons). She should try paring down to no INITs, then adding them back one at a time until the problem reappears. Note that it's usually a combination of two or more INITs that causes trouble, rather than any one INIT by its lonesome. Finally (I hesitate to mention this, cause it's usually the first thing people holler) she could be suffering from a virus. Most of the viruses out there are pretty poorly written and tend to cause system crashes, even when that's not what the author intended :-). Get a copy of Disinfectant 2.0, or one of the commercial anti-virus kits, and see if it finds anything. Good luck. -- tom lane Internet: tgl@cs.cmu.edu UUCP: <your favorite internet/arpanet gateway>!cs.cmu.edu!tgl BITNET: tgl%cs.cmu.edu@cmuccvma CompuServe: >internet:tgl@cs.cmu.edu From barry@playfair.stanford.edu Wed Jul 25 01:56 PDT 1990 Received: from hpccc.HP.COM by hpoclpa.HP.COM; Wed, 25 Jul 90 01:56:55 pdt Received: from hp-sde.sde.hp.com by hpccc.HP.COM; Wed, 25 Jul 90 01:56:04 pdt Received: from Playfair.Stanford.EDU by hp-sde.sde.hp.com with SMTP (16.3/15.5+IOS 3.13) id AA22631; Wed, 25 Jul 90 01:55:57 -0700 Message-Id: <9007250855.AA22631@hp-sde.sde.hp.com> Received: by playfair.stanford.edu; Wed, 25 Jul 90 01:54:03 PDT Date: Wed, 25 Jul 90 01:54:03 PDT From: Barrett P. Eynon <barry@playfair.stanford.edu> To: gampell@hpccc.hp.com Subject: Re: Buzz, Buzz ?! Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac In-Reply-To: <5360053@hpccc.HP.COM> Organization: Stanford University Cc: Sounds like a virus. Get Disinfectant 2.0 from sumex.stanford.edu or other archive site and check it out. -- Barry Eynon barry@playfair.stanford.edu From @hp-sde.sde.hp.com,@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu:consp22@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu Wed Jul 25 04:20 PDT 1990 Received: from hpccc.HP.COM by hpoclpa.HP.COM; Wed, 25 Jul 90 04:20:16 pdt Received: from hp-sde.sde.hp.com by hpccc.HP.COM; Wed, 25 Jul 90 04:19:24 pdt Received: from bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu by hp-sde.sde.hp.com with SMTP (16.3/15.5+IOS 3.13) id AA23651; Wed, 25 Jul 90 04:19:16 -0700 Received: by bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu (5.57) id AA09295; Tue, 24 Jul 90 20:04:43 EDT Received: from bingsunn.pod.binghamton.edu.binghamton.edu by bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA03863; Tue, 24 Jul 90 20:01:58 EDT Date: Tue, 24 Jul 90 20:01:58 EDT From: consp22@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (Darren Handler) Message-Id: <9007250001.AA03863@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu> Received: by bingsunn.pod.binghamton.edu.binghamton.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00558; Tue, 24 Jul 90 20:01:50 EDT To: gampell@hpccc.HP.COM (David J. Gampell) Subject: Re: Buzz, Buzz ?! Well, that buzzing usually occurs in rather nasty crashes, i.e. all sorts of garbage fed to the sound manager and video manager type stuff. Does she have any INITs that load in upon startup? Is the machine set up properly? Does it have an external HD that may not be connected properly? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Consp22@Bingsuns.pod.binghamton.edu | SUNY-B Computer Consultants - | | Consp22@Bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu | Trying to keep the world safe from | |---------------------------------------| the SUNY-B Computer users. | | Consultant/Techie - World Computers |-------------------------------------| | Computer Cons. - SUNY Binghamton | Darren `Mac Hack' Handler | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------| I don't know if I am going to heaven or hell, I just hope God grades on a curve From jdevoto@apple.com Wed Jul 25 04:29 PDT 1990 Received: from hpccc.HP.COM by hpoclpa.HP.COM; Wed, 25 Jul 90 04:29:34 pdt Received: from hp-sde.sde.hp.com by hpccc.HP.COM; Wed, 25 Jul 90 04:28:41 pdt Received: from apple.com by hp-sde.sde.hp.com with SMTP (16.3/15.5+IOS 3.13) id AA23714; Wed, 25 Jul 90 04:28:34 -0700 Received: by apple.com (5.61/25-eef) id AA00411; Wed, 25 Jul 90 04:27:17 -0700 for gampell@hpccc.HP.COM Date: Wed, 25 Jul 90 04:27:17 -0700 From: Jeanne A. E. DeVoto <jdevoto@apple.com> Message-Id: <9007251127.AA00411@apple.com> To: gampell@hpccc.HP.COM Subject: Re: Buzz, Buzz ?! Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc In-Reply-To: <5360053@hpccc.HP.COM> Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA Cc: In article <5360053@hpccc.HP.COM> you write: >She has been experiencing annoying and unusual crashes with her SE and the >*manufacturer's* versions of Microsoft Word 4.0 and ThinkC. She is using >Finder and System 6.02. The symptoms are as follows. In Microsoft Word, >after many selections, menu picks, etc., the program suddenly crashes (but >not all the time!) The bomb comes up and an unusual buzzing sound emanates >from the computer. The display also flickers quickly. With the ThinkC >program, the same flicker and buzzing occurs, but there is no rhyme or reason >to when it happens. > >I'm just an electrical engineer :-) but this sounds to me like a hardware >problem of some kind (esp. the buzzing!) Has anyone on the net experienced >this kind of problem before? Any and all help appreciated. It's not a hardware problem. What's happening is that during the crash, the alternate video buffer and/or the sound buffer are getting overwritten with garbage. This is what causes the flickering and buzzing. I'd suggest she trash the system software and the applications that she's having crashes in and reinstall them from the master disks. These unexplained crashes are often fixed when the software is reinstalled. If she has any nonstandard INITs (Startup Documents or Control Panel Documents) in her System Folder, she should try temporarily removing them. If the crashes stop after she reboots without any INITs, the problem is likely due to an INIT conflict and she should add them back in one at a time to determine which INIT is causing the problem. -- ========= jeanne a. e. devoto ======================================== jdevoto@apple.com | You may not distribute this article under a jdevoto@well.sf.ca.us | compilation copyright without my permission. ______________________________________________________________________ Apple Computer and I are not authorized | CI$: 72411,165 to speak for each other. | From isr@rodan.acs.syr.edu Wed Jul 25 08:46 PDT 1990 Received: from hpccc.HP.COM by hpoclpa.HP.COM; Wed, 25 Jul 90 08:46:51 pdt Received: from hp-sde.sde.hp.com by hpccc.HP.COM; Wed, 25 Jul 90 08:45:53 pdt Received: from [128.230.1.55] by hp-sde.sde.hp.com with SMTP (16.3/15.5+IOS 3.13) id AA27188; Wed, 25 Jul 90 08:45:25 -0700 Date: Wed, 25 Jul 90 11:43:03 EDT From: isr@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Michael S. Schechter - ISR group account) Received: by rodan.acs.syr.edu (5.54/Academic-Computing-Services) id AA21265; Wed, 25 Jul 90 11:43:03 EDT Message-Id: <9007251543.AA21265@rodan.acs.syr.edu> To: gampell@hpccc.hp.com Subject: Re: Buzz, Buzz ?! Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac In-Reply-To: <5360053@hpccc.HP.COM> Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY Cc: actually it's a fairly common thing to see if you're writing code. it means you've written over all sorts of interesting parts of the OS, including the sound and video control portions and are asking your hardwar to do random things. Sorta expected by us dummies you insist on using C. As far as Word doing it, well, after all it *is* from Microsoft, who brought us messydos. Actually, I'd suspect the System,Finder, etc. check for viruses, then replace the system stuff (even if no viruses found) then see how it works out. -- Mike Schechter, Computer Engineer,Institute Sensory Research, Syracuse Univ. InterNet: isr@rodan.acs.syr.edu Bitnet: SENSORY@SUNRISE
fritzw@pro-sol.cts.com (Fritz A. Wonnacott) (07/25/90)
In-Reply-To: message from gampell@hpccc.HP.COM
Tell her to upgrade to at least System 6.0.4, preferably 6.0.5. Earlier
versions were buggy.
ProLine: fritzw@pro-sol
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