jgsmith@watson.bcm.tmc.edu (James G. Smith) (07/20/90)
I should make this plea to the whole pc community, but heck, I have some admiration for companies with major R&D. This is a plea for someone to come up with an input device for the off hand/ non mouse-using hand. I would suggest a dial or pair of dials. The immediate use that I see for such a device would be to scroll the active window (one dial for horizontal and one for vertical). The best example I know of where such a system was implemented (I think very effectively) was the video game Tempest. * (Ted Nelson may have made such a statement in Computer Lib (his book), in which case he may also claim a patent or copyright or some such.)
dana@are.berkeley.edu (Dana E. Keil) (07/20/90)
In article <1412@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu> jgsmith@watson.bcm.tmc.edu (James G. Smith) writes: > >This is a plea for someone to come up with an input device for the off hand/ >non mouse-using hand. I would suggest a dial or pair of dials. The immediate >use that I see for such a device would be to scroll the active window (one >dial for horizontal and one for vertical). This suggestion and the current discussion of three-button mice for the Mac reminds me to mention a rumor about a really great input device being developed with the aid of a popular organ company, something I've been wanting to see for a long time: an ADB footpedal keyboard. Just think! Now a simple command-option-double click big toe will be all that's necessary instead of those tiresome scroll bars we hate to deal with. ;-)
ac08@vaxb.acs.unt.edu ((C. Irby)) (07/20/90)
In article <1412@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>, jgsmith@watson.bcm.tmc.edu (James G. Smith) writes: > I should make this plea to the whole pc community, but heck, I have some > admiration for companies with major R&D. > > This is a plea for someone to come up with an input device for the off hand/ > non mouse-using hand. I would suggest a dial or pair of dials. The immediate > use that I see for such a device would be to scroll the active window (one > dial for horizontal and one for vertical). The best example I know of where > such a system was implemented (I think very effectively) was the video game > Tempest. This is going on in another string... Why not use the built-in shift, command, option, and control keys? It's what I do all day... trust me, it's easy... > > * > (Ted Nelson may have made such a statement in Computer Lib (his book), in which case he may also claim a patent or copyright or some such.) -- || C Irby || "In one 8 hour period, I worked on a VAX, a ac08@vaxb.acs.unt.edu || Macintosh, three MS-DOS clones, a Novell server, ac08@untvax || a Unix box, and an Apple IIGS. || And people wonder why my concentration is
gdavis@primate.wisc.edu (Gary Davis) (07/20/90)
From article <1412@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>, by jgsmith@watson.bcm.tmc.edu (James G. Smith): > > This is a plea for someone to come up with an input device for the off hand/ > non mouse-using hand. I would suggest a dial or pair of dials. The immediate I think the inventor of the mouse, Doug Engelbart, did have an input device for the other hand. As I recall it was a simple five-fingered keyboard. I'm not sure what the keys did. He used the mouse and this keyboard to control some kind of hypertext like system he developed at SRI in the 60's. Apparently he could do amazing things with it, but everyone else found it difficult or impossible to learn how to use. As others have pointed out here, the Mac also provides something for the non-mouse hand to do, namely play with the modifier keys. Gary Davis
ac08@vaxb.acs.unt.edu ((C. Irby)) (07/20/90)
In article <37657@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU>, dana@are.berkeley.edu (Dana E. Keil) writes: > > This suggestion and the current discussion of three-button mice for the > Mac reminds me to mention a rumor about a really great input device being > developed with the aid of a popular organ company, something I've been > wanting to see for a long time: an ADB footpedal keyboard. Just think! Now a > simple command-option-double click big toe will be all that's necessary instead > of those tiresome scroll bars we hate to deal with. ;-) I always thought they should have one of those motion-detecting helmets... I like the idea of <option>-<click>-<shift>-<headbutt>... :) -- || C Irby || "In one 8 hour period, I worked on a VAX, a ac08@vaxb.acs.unt.edu || Macintosh, three MS-DOS clones, a Novell server, ac08@untvax || a Unix box, and an Apple IIGS. || And people wonder why my concentration is
pv9y@vax5.cit.cornell.edu (07/20/90)
At various times my girlfriend has tried using a trackball with her feet and she said that it would take a little practice but that it seemed like it could be done relatively easily. Then the trackball died so we never messed with it any more. There were of course some problems, such as what to do in the winter when it was too cold to take your shoes (or possibly socks as well) off, or if your feet sweated a lot in the summer, etc. I suspect some enterprising engineers could get around the environmental problems with clever design though. just a thought ........... Adam In article <30061.26a665ae@vaxb.acs.unt.edu>, ac08@vaxb.acs.unt.edu ((C. Irby)) writes: > In article <1412@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>, jgsmith@watson.bcm.tmc.edu (James G. Smith) writes: >> I should make this plea to the whole pc community, but heck, I have some >> admiration for companies with major R&D. >> >> This is a plea for someone to come up with an input device for the off hand/ >> non mouse-using hand. I would suggest a dial or pair of dials. The immediate >> use that I see for such a device would be to scroll the active window (one >> dial for horizontal and one for vertical). The best example I know of where >> such a system was implemented (I think very effectively) was the video game >> Tempest. > > This is going on in another string... > > Why not use the built-in shift, command, option, and control keys? > > It's what I do all day... trust me, it's easy... > >> >> * >> (Ted Nelson may have made such a statement in Computer Lib (his book), in which case he may also claim a patent or copyright or some such.) > -- > || > C Irby || "In one 8 hour period, I worked on a VAX, a > ac08@vaxb.acs.unt.edu || Macintosh, three MS-DOS clones, a Novell server, > ac08@untvax || a Unix box, and an Apple IIGS. > || And people wonder why my concentration is -- Adam C. Engst pv9y@vax5.cit.cornell.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "I ain't worried and I ain't scurried and I'm having a good time" -Paul Simon
quinn@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Clark Quinn) (07/20/90)
In article <2787@uakari.primate.wisc.edu> gdavis@primate.wisc.edu writes: >From article <1412@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>, by jgsmith@watson.bcm.tmc.edu >> >> This is a plea for someone to come up with an input device for the off hand/ >> non mouse-using hand. > >I think the inventor of the mouse, Doug Engelbart, did have an input device >for the other hand. As I recall it was a simple five-fingered keyboard. >I'm not sure what the keys did. > I believe, although I'm not certain, that the five-fingered keyboard Englebart used was a chord keyboard, where combinations of key presses could specify different characters. This has always been a reasonable idea, with the one caveat that the combinations can be hard to learn. An acquaintance of mine came up with a ten-key (ie two hand) chord keyboard that he claimed was faster and easier than even a Dvorak keyboard. He tried to get Apple to invest in it. I was involved in a CHI lab at the time (at UCSD) and he came and gave a presentation. Don Norman (leader of the lab and my advisor) thought that the most innovative thing about the work was the key mapping that Will had devised (chord keyboards were old news). As far as I know, nothing ever came of Will's keyboard, nor the use of chord keyboards. It may turn out that the combination of a five-fingered chord keyboard for one hand and pointing/clicking device for the other (be it mouse, trackball, or pen) is the most efficient input method for two hands. Or consider a ten-keyed chord keyboard (which should easily cover all the separate keys you might want) that could roll around on the desktop. It will require, however, a good analysis of the efficiency of various designs of both the physical characteristics of the keyboards and the psychological issues in mapping key combinations to characters.. I sympathize with the original posters request and hope that further research might devise such a device. -- Clark ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Clark N. Quinn (412) 624-9581 Learning Research and Development Center quinn@unix.cis.pitt.edu University of Pittsburgh quinn@pittunix.bitnet Pittsburgh, PA 15260
jgsmith@watson.bcm.tmc.edu (James G. Smith) (07/21/90)
While the modifier keys have some functional use for the off hand, they make a lousy interface. The mouse is great because I can see where it is with peripheral vision, put my hand on it and go without ever looking away from the screen. This is not the case with the modifier keys, which I always have to search for, partly because I use several keyboards in a day, and the modifier keys are always in different places. I had forgotten about the chord keyboard. Heck, I'd be happy with a 5 button keyboard, forget the chord business (except for the power users who will have the time and inclination to learn the chords). *
ewm@mdavcr.UUCP (Eric W. Mitchel) (07/21/90)
In article <1412@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu> jgsmith@watson.bcm.tmc.edu (James G. Smith) writes: > >This is a plea for someone to come up with an input device for the off hand/ >non mouse-using hand. Gee, I think somebody did come up with an idea. It was called... Hmmm, let me see now... Oh yeah! A keyboard! ;-) Eric
landman@hanami.Eng.Sun.COM (Howard A. Landman x61391) (07/24/90)
In article <2787@uakari.primate.wisc.edu> gdavis@primate.wisc.edu writes: >I think the inventor of the mouse, Doug Engelbart, did have an input device >for the other hand. As I recall it was a simple five-fingered keyboard. Sounds like the "chord" keyboard sometimes used at Xerox PARC. >Apparently he could do >amazing things with it, but everyone else found it difficult or impossible >to learn how to use. I don't know about that. It was great for playing MazeWar. -- Howard A. Landman landman@eng.sun.com -or- sun!landman
tjc@castle.ed.ac.uk (A J Cunningham) (07/24/90)
In article <139441@sun.Eng.Sun.COM> landman@hanami.Eng.Sun.COM (Howard A. Landman x61391) writes: >In article <2787@uakari.primate.wisc.edu> gdavis@primate.wisc.edu writes: >>I think the inventor of the mouse, Doug Engelbart, did have an input device >>for the other hand. As I recall it was a simple five-fingered keyboard. Get a hold of the video proceedings of the ACM Conference on the History of Personal Workstations. It was held in '86 at PARC and the tapes can be got from the ACM. They have some footage of Engelbart using the mouse with one hand and his 'chord' keyboard in the other. It's quite spectacular. One of the later speakers describes this as 'Dispensing Lightning with Both Hands'. The rest of the tape is pretty good too. >Sounds like the "chord" keyboard sometimes used at Xerox PARC. Hah just another Xerox ripoff :-) Tony -- Tony Cunningham, Edinburgh University Computing Service. tjc@castle.ed.ac.uk If a man among you has no sin upon his hand Let him throw a stone at me for playing in the band.
ssimmons@unix.cie.rpi.edu (Stephen Simmons) (07/25/90)
In article <1426@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu> jgsmith@watson.bcm.tmc.edu (James G. Smith) writes: > >I had forgotten about the chord keyboard. Heck, I'd be happy with a 5 button >keyboard, forget the chord business (except for the power users who will have >the time and inclination to learn the chords). > Yeah. A five button chord keyboard would be nice; you could easily have all the letters of the alphabet with the off hand, and the mouse with the on hand. A ten key chord keyboard would be nice too, because it would (apparently) allow rapid entry of data. The 95WPM (or so) barrier of QWERTY keyboards is frustating to me. I'm not sure I'd buy five key one, but a ten key one would be for me, worth paying for. --Stephen Simmons
KPURCELL@LIVERPOOL.AC.UK (07/28/90)
Don't write off the chord keyboard too soon. A company in the UK called MicroWriter Systems makes a pocket 'organiser' (diary, notebook and address/phonebook all in one) called the AgendA. It costs #195 to #250. The most notable feature of this device is a five button chord keyboard that can be used to enter data into the machine. The chords are not too difficult to learn (took me about 1 hour or so and I wan't really trying) and eventually after several weeks you should get up to 1.5 times handwriting speed (in fact the limitation in the speed is mostly to do with the lack of mechanical feedback -- in the eariler version with clickly finger switches a user could easily get to twice handwriting speed (around 40 wpm)). Why mention it here. The company also makes a package to transfer information to/from a Mac (keep the machine backed up on the mac and keep it capable of using Hypertalk stacks and transfering notes to WP files). It also allows you to use the chord keyboard in addition to the main mac keyboard, so you can keep one hand (the left hand) on the mouse and type with the other. Should be most useful for spreadsheet use. The chord keyboard is not dead, just underated. Kevin ^Kevin ^Purcell .........................Comments? Questions? Flames? Applause? \ Surface Science \ Waiter,Waiter, \ Liverpool University \ There's a bug in my soup....... \ Liverpool L69 3BX \ ....No Sir! Thats not a bug it's a feature...