hardin@dino.cad.mcc.com (John Hardin) (07/20/90)
++++ Regarding Wanted: Two-page (mono or gray scale) monitor recommendations; ++++ I said: > I currently have a MacII with the Apple 8-bit video card and the Apple > high(?:-) resolution monochrome monitor. I want to replace my > existing mono monitor with a color monitor AND buy a new two-page > mono/gs monitor. Thus, I'm looking for advice and/or good/bad > experiences with two-page mono/gs monitors. > I've listed the ones I'm considering (in the order I'm considering > them) including the best mail order prices I've seen. If you're > making a comment on one of these monitors and you know of a better > price, please let me know that, too. (If you want to recommend > something not listed that's fine, too. Just keep it (relatively) > inexpensive! :-) > * RasterOps ClearVue $1149 > * Megagraphics Megascreen Rival $999 > * Radius $1149(?) > * Ehman $899 > If interest dictates, I'll post a summary of the responses. > Thanks for any and all help, > -jwh > P.S. I HAVE read the recent reviews in MacUser and MacWorld. > -- > John Hardin, MCC CAD Program | ARPA: hardin@mcc.com | Phone: [512] 338-3535 > Box 200195, Austin, TX 78720 | UUCP: ...!cs.utexas.edu!milano!cadillac!hardin First, I want to thank all of the people that responded to this message! Several people have subsequently asked for copies of the responses I have received. I figure posting is the easiest way to respond. Here are the responses. Before you see the responses let me say that I was *quite* surprised by all of the good "press" that Ehman received. (I was surprised because I (in part based on MacUser's TPD review in the April90 issue) expected the more expensive (bigger name) brands to be better. Typical american consumer, eh? :-) Ehman received SIX recommendations while Apple, Radius, and SuperMac received (*only*) ONE each! (In some cases, Ehman was preferred over Radius and/or Apple based on actual (personal) comparisons!) Based on these recommendations (AND PRICE! :-) I'm pursuing an Ehman two-pager. Thanks again to all who responded. -jwh # From: berwick@ai.mit.edu (Professor Robert C. Berwick) # Date: Mon, 16 Jul 90 21:59:19 EDT # To: hardin@dino.cad.mcc.com # Subject: mono monitors # # We've used several of the Radius and Ehman monitors # here at the AI lab now. After using both, I'd actually # rate the Ehman's higher in clarity. Many of the # Radius' have bothersome out-of-focus patches, on the # left. The Radius price is much higher also. # R. C. Berwick # From: John Norstad <jln@acns.nwu.edu> # To: John Hardin <hardin@dino.cad.mcc.com> # Cc: jln@acns.nwu.edu # Subject: Re: Wanted: Two-page monochrome (or gray scale) monitor recommendations # Date: Mon, 16 Jul 1990 21:02:42 CST # References: <HARDIN.90Jul16115109@dino.cad.mcc.com> # Organization: Northwestern University # # I have a Radius TPD, and I love it. My advice: Get the 21" model instead # of the 19" model if you can afford it. It has the same number of pixels # across and down, but at 74 pixels per inch instead of 82 pixels per inch. # The lower pixel density is much closer to the nominal 72 pixels per inch # on the classic Mac screen. This makes 9 point text much easier to read. # # I couldn't live without my Radius! # # John Norstad # Academic Computing and Network Services # Northwestern University # jln@acns.nwu.edu # Date: Mon, 16 Jul 90 21:56:23 PDT # From: lcuff@cmc.com (Leonard Cuff) # To: hardin@dino.cad.mcc.com # Subject: Re: Wanted: Two-page monochrome (or gray scale) monitor recommendations # Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.wanted,comp.sys.mac # Organization: Rockwell CMC # Cc: # # I have no first hand information. Have read that the radius software is the # nicest (tear-off menus, sound that works with an accelerator card) but can't # remember where I read it. Am very interested in knowing the results of your # query by mail or by posting. # # # -- # Leonard Cuff # lcuff@cmc.com # Date: Tue, 17 Jul 90 08:53:31 EDT # From: Ed Darken <erd@cs.duke.edu> # To: hardin@dino.cad.mcc.com # Subject: Re: Wanted: Two-page monochrome (or gray scale) monitor recommendations # Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.wanted,comp.sys.mac # Organization: Duke University CS Dept.; Durham, NC # Cc: # # We bought the Ehman 19" monochrome monitor for our lab. We've # had it about two months now, and there haven't been any problems # (unlike what some other people reported to the net about their # Ehman monitors). In fact, I've been pleased with it. The picture # quality is quite good. # # Of course, it took about two months and several phone calls for # Ehman to finally deliver it, which was frustrating. However, if # I was buying a monitor with my own money, I'd order one from # Ehman. I'm willing to wait a couple of months to save hundreds # of dollars. # From: stuart@pueblo.att.com # Date: Tue, 17 Jul 90 07:36 CDT # Original-From: pueblo!stuart (Stuart D Ericson +1 708 979 4491) # To: att!hardin@dino.cad.mcc.com # Subject: Re: Wanted: Two-page monochrome (or gray scale) monitor recommendations # # [...personal line deleted...] # Here are two(?) articles I collected off the net some months back. # # Enjoy! # # ---------------------------------------------------------------- # >From jeff@tc.fluke.COM Fri Feb 23 02:03:08 1990 # >Path: cbnewsc!cbnews!att!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wuarchive!mit-eddie!uw-beaver!fluke!jeff # >From: jeff@tc.fluke.COM (Jeff Stearns) # >Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware # >Subject: Ehman 19" monitor (buy one!) # >Keywords: crt monitor 19 ehman # >Message-ID: <15136@fluke.COM> # >Date: 23 Feb 90 07:03:08 GMT # >Sender: news@tc.fluke.COM # >Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA # >Lines: 87 # > # You may have noticed the ads from Ehman Engineering, offering a 19" # two-page monitor for the SE, SE/30, and Mac II. They're selling for $899. # Ehman strikes me as one of those mail-order companies that's poised # to do real darn well, and this product is going to boost them along. # # I've spent many years of my life staring into 19" monitors attached to # Sun Workstations. Sun sells a decent middle-of-the-road monitor. The # hard-to-get OCLI anti-glare coating helps a lot, making it good enough # for continuous use day after day. # # I hoped to find something this good for my Mac. The Radius full-page # display is the best Mac display I've found, but it's too small. I've # inspected two of the Radius two-page displays, and they don't come close # to the quality of the one-pager. The display was unsteady, with moderate # to severe swimming along the left edge of the screen. Focus varied across # the screen; I could never bring more than about 40% of the screen into good # focus. The salesman told me that you just focus the part that you're working # on. Right. # # I've inspected two Apple 19" displays, and they were worse; the right # 1/3 of the displays were so out-of-focus that the desktop grey pattern # really looked grey. They were plagued with nonlinearities at the edges, # and windows would grow and shrink by about 10% as they were moved around # the desktop. This strikes me as odd, since other Apple displays are generally # quite good. I thought these stunk. Both salesmen claimed not to be bothered # by them. # # I've looked at less-expensive displays like the Cornerstone, but quality # control seemed real erratic. Some were OK, and others were horrible. # # What I really wanted was something with the clarity of the Radius full-page # display, at a price under $1000. # # (If you get the chance, look closely at the NeXT display. They set a high # standard for image quality. The pixels are rock steady and sharp, and their # monitors are nicely focused and linear.) # # I took a chance on the Ehman display. It's brand new, and the only way to # see one is to buy it. It took several weeks to arrive, because Ehman has # been unable to meet the demand for them. They were honest when I placed # the order, and they even called me once to confirm that I knew it would # take a while to arrive. # # It finally arrived tonight. It was worth the wait. And it's certainly # worth the price. # # The crt is 19", but the actual image size is 17". When I first turned it # on, it was bowed at the upper left corner, but the image straightened out # after about 10 minutes. It's now perfectly rectangular and nicely focused. # # There's about one pixel's worth of very subtle ringing in the transition from # black to white. Thus the white pixels to the right edge of dark pixels # lines are ever-so-slightly darker than those at the left edge. (This visual # artifact is actually quite common on CRT's, and it takes careful amplifier # design and good cabling to combat it.) Most Sun workstations are worse than # this. # # The image is rock steady. Pixels don't swim or jitter or float before your # eyes. This is important because it helps to reduce the strain on your eyes. # # The pixels aren't quite as well focused as I'd like, but they're certainly # no worse than typical CRT's. They're not quite as sharp as on my wonderful # old SE, but they're far better than the large Apple display's I've studied. # # The specs say that the image is 1050 by 817 pixels, but I've been quoted other # numbers by Ehman folks. I suspect that the exact dimensions changed as the # product was borought to market. It refreshes at 78 Hz, so there's no visible # flicker. Phosphor is standard P104. (It's a monochrome display, and Ehman # tells me that it can't ever be upgraded to greyscale because the CRT inputs are # digital rather than analog.) # # The case looks exactly like what you'd get if you took a Sun-3 monitor to # Taiwan and told them to duplicate it. It tilts and swivels nicely. It doesn't # get hot; ventilation is ample so long as you don't lay a manual on top of the # cooling slots. (Those kind of things happen when you give up most of your # desk space.) # # It comes with Stepping Out II (as though you'd want an even bigger screen!). # # It comes with all cables and your choice of interface for the SE, SE/30, or # Mac II. # # When I ordered it, I expected that I might box it up and send it back. # No way! I hope to keep it for many years to come. # -- # Jeff Stearns John Fluke Mfg. Co, Inc. (206) 356-5064 # jeff@tc.fluke.COM {uw-beaver,microsoft,sun}!fluke!jeff # # # ------------------------------ # # Date: Tue, 20 Feb 90 09:05:45 EST # From: lti2!reg@lti.uucp (Rick Genter x18) # Subject: Ehman 19" displays # # I recently purchased one of those incredibly cheap Ehman 19" B&W displays # for my Mac SE. I should say incredibly *inexpensive* because the display # is **not** "cheap". # # I love it. The quality is the same as the monitor on my Sun, as far as I # am concerned, except that I believe it might be slightly higher resolution. # I was a bit concerned with speed; I'm running a standard SE (not an SE/30, # and no accelerator installed), but it's acceptable. I should note that I # have 4 MB RAM, so holding the larger bitmap is no problem. # # The installation instructions left a lot to be desired. Fortunately I had # done work on my SE in the past (1 MB->2.5 MB, then 2.5MB->4 MB) and pretty # much knew what had to be done. A word of caution: if you have an internal # hard drive, there is *barely* enough room for the video cable (which goes # to the punch out area on the back of the SE) to snake through everything. # It took me nearly an hour to install the board in the "slot", mainly because # the video cable kept unhooking itself from the controller after I had # reinstalled the motherboard. # # Nonetheless, once I got everything back together with the cable attached, it # was a matter of turning on the Mac, putting Ehman's '19" Init' in my system # folder, and rebooting. Voila! # # Another note: I am running System 6.0.2 and do *not* have the Monitors cdev. # Fortunately, the Ehman Init (I presume) sets up the screens such that the # 19" is the menu-bar monitor, and the SE monitor is presumed to be centered and # to the left of the big monitor. This is just right if the SE and the Ehman # are on the same surface and you place the Ehman immediately to the right of # the SE. I have my SE sitting on an external hard drive, so the screens don't # line up exactly. Someday I'll glom on to the Monitors cdev and fix this. # # Overall, I am a happy camper. I bought the monitor because of the ever- # increasing amount of work I've been doing with Think C; having a source window # that extends for 70 or 80 lines in Monaco-9 is *wonderful*, and being able # to have data windows sprinkled liberally across the screen without obliterating # the source debugger or application window is great. I also do a fair amount # of writing in Microsoft Word; with 1" top and bottom margins, a full-length # window is *more* than a page, and Print Preview is actually legible. # # Count me as a satisfied customer; if you're doing serious program development or # writing, the Ehman 19" monitor is a must-have. # # - reg # -- # # # -------------------------- # Stuart Ericson AT&T Bell Laboratories # USEnet: att!ihlpa!stuart IH 1C215 # ARPA: stuart@ihlpa.att.com 2000 N. Naperville Road # Voice: (708) 979-4491 Naperville, Il 60566-7033 # From: Fabian@cup.portal.com # To: hardin@dino.cad.mcc.com # Subject: Re: Wanted: Two-page monochrome (or gray scale) monitor recommen # Lines: 13 # Date: Tue, 17 Jul 90 21:47:52 PDT # X-Origin: The Portal System (TM) # X-Possible-Reply-Path: Fabian@cup.portal.com # X-Possible-Reply-Path: sun!portal!cup.portal.com!Fabian # # John, # # Please also consider SuperMac's 21" Platinum Two Page and 19" Platinum # Displays. # # For B&W support, there's Monochrome Card. For accelerated 8-bit greyscale, # there Spectrum/8 PDQ. # # Fabian Ramirez # SuperMac Technology # # fabian@cup.portal.com # sun!cup.portal.com!fabian # Date: Wed, 18 Jul 90 04:23:52 pdt # From: well!oster@apple.com (David Phillip Oster) # To: hardin@dino.cad.mcc.com # Subject: Re: Wanted: Two-page monochrome (or gray scale) monitor recommendations # Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.wanted,comp.sys.mac # Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link, Sausalito, CA # # I got a Ehman 2pager for $745.00 at the April MacWorld expo. It is great. # The price includes the interface card and the necessary cables. I just plugged # it in and it worked. The pixels are all sharp. There is a very slight amount # of pincushion distortion on the left edge, and I believe Ehman tech support # will walk you through opening it up and adjusting it out. Both the power # switch and the brightness control are on the back, which makes them hard to # reach. I am a happy customer, though. It seems like about 75dpi instead of # 72dpi, but that is certainly close enough. # # Remember that in a two display system, the menu bar should probably be # on the right display, so that the left edge, which is the most used part # pf the screen, will be in the center of your system. # -- # -- David Phillip Oster - Note new address. Old one has gone Bye Bye. # -- oster@well.sf.ca.us = {backbone}!well!oster # From: kehr@felix.UUCP (Shirley Kehr) # Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware # Subject: SuperMac 19" Grayscale # Date: 14 Jul 90 20:04:43 GMT # Reply-To: kehr@felix.UUCP (Shirley Kehr) # Distribution: usa # Organization: FileNet Corp., Costa Mesa, CA # # "From: mmwst1@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Michael M Wagner) # " # "Does anyone have an opinion about the following large # "screen mono or greyscale monitors # " # "RasterOps Clearvue 19" # "SuperMac 19 or 21" # "Apple 2 page display # "Sigma silverview # " # "Mirror # "Ehman # "Nutmeg # # I use the SuperMac 19" grayscale at home and at work and there is another # one at work. The display is wonderful. Everything about the monitor seems # more classy than any of the other two-page displays around here (Megascreen, # Radius, E-Machines, and Ehman). # # I was the first one to buy one (of these three) it it was because it # was the first two-page monitor I could get my hands on for the SE/30. # So my unit is over a year old. # # It had a strange habit of spewing out a pattern of pixels in a horizontal # band every now and then. I could get rid of it by forcing a refresh of the # screen, so I didn't report it because I didn't want to give it up. # # I started having hard disk problems serious enough to require service, and # while the Mac was in the shop, the video card died. SuperMac replaced it, # though they did send the wrong kind at first. After that I never saw the # pattern of random pixels again. # # I had also started seeing some other problems with the display. There were # intermittent flickers of horizontal white lines (maybe like dashed lines) # and the whole display would jiggle (can't think of a better word) at this # time. It would last maybe 10 to 15 seconds, then quit. One night the # whole display blacked out for a couple seconds then came right back. After # that the other problem wasn't as apparent. This happened on the day the # warranty expired so I called SuperMac and they agreed to look at it under # warranty. The monitor is still in the shop (I think my dealer didn't # follow the procedures for sending it back and it may not really have been # there that long or it may have been in transit a couple times.) # # One of my tests was to take the monitor to work and try it out on an identical # system. This was at SuperMac's suggestion. The first day it performed # flawlessly. I assumed by now that my power was dirty and called around to # find a power line conditioner. Just before going out to buy it, the monitor # started doing its jiggling thing again, so I took it to the dealer to send # back to SuperMac instead. # # The two SuperMacs at work are perfect as far as I can tell. My monitor is # probably a very early unit (as is my hard disk with the stiction problem) # so I would be afraid to buy SuperMac again. However, unless you need the # grayscale, there are MUCH cheaper alternatives. # # We have some of the Ehmans around here and we are highly pleased with them. # As far as I know, it is the only monitor we're buying anymore. The delivery # isn't very swift (plan on months of waiting), but the display is very # sharp. $899 is a terrific price compared to $2500 for the same screen # real estate. # # The SuperMac has an antiglare coating that makes it the easiest display # in the building to look at all day long, but you can always add antiglare # to anything else. # # Lots of luck on your search for the perfect monitor. I sure wish I could # have color sometime, but the text display is so fuzzy compared to monochrome # displays that it would be irritating trying to read it all day long. # # Shirley Kehr # Date: Wed, 18 Jul 90 15:22:11 EDT # From: jjwcmp@ultb.isc.rit.edu (Jeff Wasilko) # To: hardin@dino.cad.mcc.com # Subject: Re: Wanted: Two-page monochrome (or gray scale) monitor recommendations # Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.wanted,comp.sys.mac # Organization: none to speak of # Cc: # # # If you can pick up the Apple monitor @ educational prices, it would be # worth it. I just ordered two (with cards) for about $1200 each. # # Jeff # -- # | RIT VAX/VMS Systems: | Jeff Wasilko | RIT Ultrix Systems: | # |BITNET: jjw7384@ritvax+----------------------+INET:jjw7384@ultb.isc.rit.edu| # |INTERNET: jjw7384@isc.rit.edu |___UUCP:jjw7384@ultb.UUCP____| # |'claimer: I speak only for myself. Opinions expressed are NOT those of RIT.| -- John Hardin, MCC CAD Program | ARPA: hardin@mcc.com | Phone: [512] 338-3535 Box 200195, Austin, TX 78720 | UUCP: ...!cs.utexas.edu!milano!cadillac!hardin
hardin@dino.cad.mcc.com (John Hardin) (07/20/90)
AND, I forgot to mention that Ehman has a two (yes, Tina (at Ehman) told me they have a TWO year warranty) AND they have a 30-day MONEY BACK GUARANTEE! -jwh -- John Hardin, MCC CAD Program | ARPA: hardin@mcc.com | Phone: [512] 338-3535 Box 200195, Austin, TX 78720 | UUCP: ...!cs.utexas.edu!milano!cadillac!hardin
jr@amanue.UUCP (Jim Rosenberg) (07/22/90)
In <HARDIN.90Jul19134247@dino.cad.mcc.com> hardin@dino.cad.mcc.com (John Hardin) writes: >AND, I forgot to mention that Ehman has a two (yes, Tina (at Ehman) >told me they have a TWO year warranty) AND they have a 30-day MONEY >BACK GUARANTEE! But, if it takes two months for the monitor to arrive after you buy one, how long will it take to get it repaired? Most likely it's been out a short enough time that not too many netters would have had a chance to experience this problem. I don't have a 19" monitor, though I covet one badly. Having to wait two months after ordering might not be so bad, but once I got used to working with it on a daily basis, having to wait two months to get it *back* from repair would be EXCRUCIATING! -- Jim Rosenberg -- cgh!amanue!jr CIS: 71515,124 UUCP: / / | WELL: jer dsi.com pitt! ditka! BIX: jrosenberg Internet: cgh!amanue!jr@dsi.com
cec@portia.Stanford.EDU (Charles Cunningham) (07/31/90)
I bought a Mirror technologies Pixel View II 19" monitor and have been generally pleased with the product. It cost ~$930 including shipping (UPS ground), comes with a 30 day money back guarantee and a 1 year warranty, and comes with a disk of software which includes a screen saver, pop up menus, a big font for the menubar, and a few other things I haven't tried yet. It is just black and white and is unable to be upgraded to multi gray shades. It has a 78 Hz screen refresh rate. There is no noticible screen distortion or flicker. I saw the advert in Macworld & MacUser. Charles Cunningham cec@portia.stanford.edu