gsnow@pro-freedom.cts.com (Gary Snow) (08/26/90)
Does anyone know how to get rid of an empty folder that the system says
contains files that are locked or in use. When in DiskTools, it also says the
file count on the folder is -2 (yes that is NEGITIVE 2 files). How do I just
get rid of this file, what might have caused this problem, and how do I avoid
it in the future?
Thanks in advance.....Gary
---
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InterNet: gsnow@pro-freedom.cts.com | Vancouver Apple Users GroupChris.Gehlker@p12.f56.n114.z1.fidonet.org (Chris Gehlker) (08/28/90)
> Does anyone know how to get rid of an empty folder that the system says > contains files that are locked or in use. When in DiskTools, it also says the > file count on the folder is -2 (yes that is NEGITIVE 2 files). How do I just > get rid of this file, what might have caused this problem, and how do I avoid > it in the future? > > Thanks in advance.....Gary Aha, the "Folder from Hell" raises it's ugly head again. This seems to be a particurlarly prevalent problem with system 6.0.3 though no one has kept accurate statistics. What you have is a corrupted B* tree. The easiest way to fix it is with Norton Utilities. I don't know of anyone who's had this problem with 6.0.5. -- Uucp: ...{gatech,ames,rutgers}!ncar!asuvax!stjhmc!56.12!Chris.Gehlker Internet: Chris.Gehlker@p12.f56.n114.z1.fidonet.org
kpmiller@uokmax.uucp (Kent P Miller) (08/30/90)
In article <25542.26DA84DE@stjhmc.fidonet.org> Chris.Gehlker@p12.f56.n114.z1.fidonet.org (Chris Gehlker) writes: >> Does anyone know how to get rid of an empty folder that the system says >> contains files that are locked or in use. When in DiskTools, it also says >the >> file count on the folder is -2 (yes that is NEGITIVE 2 files). How do I >just >> get rid of this file, what might have caused this problem, and how do I >avoid >> it in the future? >> >> Thanks in advance.....Gary > >Aha, the "Folder from Hell" raises it's ugly head again. This seems to be a >particurlarly prevalent problem with system 6.0.3 though no one has kept >accurate >statistics. What you have is a corrupted B* tree. The easiest way to fix it >is with Norton Utilities. I don't know of anyone who's had this problem with >6.0.5. Score one for me! Let me be the first to say I have a folder from hell with system 6.0.5. Kent Miller
roskar@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU (Veljko Roskar) (08/31/90)
In article <25542.26DA84DE@stjhmc.fidonet.org> Chris.Gehlker@p12.f56.n114.z1.fidonet.org (Chris Gehlker) writes: >Aha, the "Folder from Hell" raises it's ugly head again. This seems to be a >particurlarly prevalent problem with system 6.0.3 though no one has kept >statistics. What you have is a corrupted B* tree. The easiest way to fix it >is with Norton Utilities. I don't know of anyone who's had this problem with >6.0.5. > Well I have the "Folder from Hell" on 6.0.5. It appeared in the root directory, can't trash it, and fedit says "Expected Catalog file record not found in Extent file. This disk may have a problem." MacTools and DiskTop see 2 files in the folder, but they're not invisible and I still can't see them. I have a problem. Can't afford NU. How do I fix this without it. Please don't tell me to back up and reformat, I am finishing my MS and just don't have the time! How can avoid getting the same problem in the future?? Is it possible that some bug in an application created this ? Ppppppllease help. Thanks. -- Veljko Roskar | roskar@jhuvms.bitnet Department of Chemical Engineering | roskar@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu The Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore | uunet!mimsy!aplcen!jhunix!roskar
schabtac@stout.atd.ucar.edu (Adam Schabtach) (08/31/90)
In article <6275@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU> roskar@jhunix.UUCP (Veljko Roskar) writes: >In article <25542.26DA84DE@stjhmc.fidonet.org> Chris.Gehlker@p12.f56.n114.z1.fidonet.org (Chris Gehlker) writes: >>is with Norton Utilities. I don't know of anyone who's had this problem with >>6.0.5. >> >Well I have the "Folder from Hell" on 6.0.5. It appeared in the root directory I've gotten it on 6.0.5 too. >I have a problem. Can't afford NU. How do I fix this without it. Please don't >tell me to back up and reformat, I am finishing my MS and just don't have the >time! I certainly hope you're taking the time to back up -- it will take MUCH longer to reconstruct your MS if you don't have a backup when your hard disk dies (notice I said 'when' rather than 'if' :-). However, the way I deal with Folders From Hell (TM) is by dragging them onto the desktop (usually conveniently close to the Trash) and renaming them something like 'From Hell' or 'Dead.' Then the next time I boot or restart, I can throw them in the Trash and they stay there. It seems that the restart takes care of them (at least on my system). -- --Adam schabtac@stout.atd.ucar.edu Disclaimer: The above has nothing to do with NCAR.
rcochran@world.std.com (Ray Cochrane) (08/31/90)
schabtac@stout.atd.ucar.edu (Adam Schabtach) writes: >In article <6275@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU> roskar@jhunix.UUCP (Veljko Roskar) writes: >>In article <25542.26DA84DE@stjhmc.fidonet.org> Chris.Gehlker@p12.f56.n114.z1.fidonet.org (Chris Gehlker) writes: >>>is with Norton Utilities. I don't know of anyone who's had this problem with >>>6.0.5. >>> >>Well I have the "Folder from Hell" on 6.0.5. It appeared in the root directory >I've gotten it on 6.0.5 too. >>I have a problem. Can't afford NU. How do I fix this without it. Please don't >>tell me to back up and reformat, I am finishing my MS and just don't have the >>time! >I certainly hope you're taking the time to back up -- it will take MUCH longer >to reconstruct your MS if you don't have a backup when your hard disk dies >(notice I said 'when' rather than 'if' :-). >However, the way I deal with Folders From Hell (TM) is by dragging >them onto the desktop (usually conveniently close to the Trash) and >renaming them something like 'From Hell' or 'Dead.' Then the next time >I boot or restart, I can throw them in the Trash and they stay there. >It seems that the restart takes care of them (at least on my system). There is a way to kill these folders from hell! See the following message: FROM: Eric Larson TO: Ray Leninger SUBJ: A Folder Question In a message to Norm Goodger {26 Nov 89} Ray Leninger wrote: > I've never reformated my HD20 in the 4 years I've owned it, but I guess > that'll be the only solution. According to the Finder it is empty > although one of my Locator DA's shows there are 26 files in it (but won't > show anything if I open it). Another interesting "feature" of this folder > is that if I create a text file and save it to that folder, there's still > nothing in the folder according to the Finder. It would be interesting to > know WHAT causes this, but it must just be "one of those things." I've seen this mentioned several times now... the problem is caused by a discrepancy in the Macintosh file system that causes the Finder to believe a folder contains files when in fact it is empty. Of course, the Finder will not throw away a folder unless it is empty... The problem is quite easy to fix with a disk editor ala MacSnoop/Fedit/SUM Tools. First, name the folder in question something unique, like FUBAR FOLDER. Then, using a tool like DiskTop, examine the folder information to get an idea of how many files the Finder thinks are in the folder... write the number down. Now, open the volume FUBAR FOLDER resides on with your disk editor, and do an ASCII search for the string FUBAR FOLDER. When the string is found, look at the hex codes immediately following the string FUBAR FOLDER. You should see a sequence something like 0100 00xx, where 00xx is the hexadecimal equivalent to the number of files that Disktop reported being in the empty folder. Using the disk editor, change this number to 0000 and save the edited sector. When you have completed this editing, you should have no trouble throwing away FUBAR FOLDER. Of course, this is not something for the timid, or for folks who do not have a good backup of their hard disk around. But done correctly, it does let you throw away those folders from hell.... I have used this method with great success....be careful...and backup first!
gsnow@pro-freedom.cts.com (Gary Snow) (08/31/90)
In-Reply-To: message from Chris.Gehlker@p12.f56.n114.z1.fidonet.org
> I don't know of anyone who's had this problem with 6.0.5.
Well, 6.0.5 has other problems that I would not like to deal with, and for the
record (is someone keeping track 8-)), I am using 6.0.4.
Gary
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InterNet: gsnow@pro-freedom.cts.com | Vancouver Apple Users Groupjonp@motbos.UUCP (Jon Parmet) (08/31/90)
In article <1990Aug30.002643.22740@uokmax.uucp> kpmiller@uokmax.uucp (Kent P Miller) writes: >> >>Aha, the "Folder from Hell" raises it's ugly head again. This seems to be a >>.......... I don't know of anyone who's had this problem with 6.0.5 > >Score one for me! Let me be the first to say I have a folder from hell Let me be the second one then :) ---- Jon Parmet @ Blackhole Technology, Winchester, Ma. UUCP: {decvax, decwrl, oakhill, rutgers!mcdhup, gatech!mcdchg}..!motbos!jonp Phone: +1 617-721-7690
robs@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (09/01/90)
@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu I pull the folder out onto the Desktop, make sure it is empty, and reboot. You can then throw it out. This has worked the ten or twelve times the "folder@hell" has popped up.
Adam.Frix@p2.f200.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Adam Frix) (09/02/90)
Adam Schabtach writes in a message on 08/30/90 at 18:53:37 ...
AS> However, the way I deal with Folders From Hell (TM) is by dragging the
AS> m onto the desktop (usually conveniently close to the Trash)
AS> and renaming them something like 'From Hell' or 'Dead.' Then
AS> the next time I boot or restart, I can throw them in the Trash
AS> and they stay there. It seems that the restart takes care of
AS> them (at least on my system)...
No, what you're describing is the Folder from Heck. If you can reboot and trash
the folder, it's not from Hell. The Folder from Hell cannot be trashed, no
matter what. Here's something I archived from the net awhile back, and I
guarantee
it works--because I've tried it:
I've had these kind of folders around for some time too ... until
yesterday! Thanks to some almost correct suggestions that came
accross the net, I DID get rid of them. The procedure I followed was:
1.) Make absolutely sure there were no invisible/locked files in the
folder by using MacSnoop to verify emptiness. (You can use several
other tools as well like ResEdit.)
2.) Rename the folder(s) to HellFolderN or something you KNOW is
unique on your disk where N is 1, 2, etc. for as many
HellFolders as you have. By renaming them all you will only
need search the disk once in the steps below to fix all of
them.
3.) Using MacSnoop (or some other suitable disk editor), open the disk
volume and do an ASCII search for the string HellFolder (without
the appended digit).
4.) If the string HellFolderN is immediately followed by 0100 0000 XXXX
hex, then change XXXX to 0000, this is the valence word in the
directory entry (the 01 tells you it is a directory entry).
NOTE: the 00 following the 01 and the 0000 need not be zeros but
they always were in my cases, these are reserved and flag bytes.
5.) Repeat steps 3.) and 4.) for **ALL** occurrences of HellFolder to
be found on the disk. This step is necessary since directory
entries get moved around and you want to make sure you get the
active one and not just some fragment left somewhere on the
disk. The searching will take some time if you have a large
disk.
6.) Quit MacSnoop and immediately reboot. (I think this is
necessary because the OS may be keeping the directory entry in RAM
or maybe the disk RAM cache is responsible. All I know is I
had to do it to be able to trash the folders.)
7.) After rebooting the HellFolder(s) should be trashable! (They were
for me.)
If you feel squeemish about this, back up your disk first and practice
on a floppy looking for the directory entries as described above.
If this works for you, post a note to the net so that others may feel
more confident in using the technique and BY ALL MEANS post corrections
if you think I described something incorrectly.
Good Luck!
--
Adam Frix via cmhGate - Net 226 fido<=>uucp gateway Col, OH
UUCP: ...!osu-cis!n8emr!cmhgate!200.2!Adam.Frix
INET: Adam.Frix@p2.f200.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORGAdam.Frix@p2.f200.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Adam Frix) (09/03/90)
R > I pull the folder out onto the Desktop, make sure it is empty, R > and reboot. You can then throw it out. This has worked the R > ten or twelve times the "folder@hell" has popped up.... nope. You're describing the "folder from heck." The Folder from Hell cannot be trashed, even after rebooting, without diddling with the disk or using something like Norton Utilities. --Adam-- -- Adam Frix via cmhGate - Net 226 fido<=>uucp gateway Col, OH UUCP: ...!osu-cis!n8emr!cmhgate!200.2!Adam.Frix INET: Adam.Frix@p2.f200.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Chris.Gehlker@p12.f56.n114.z1.fidonet.org (Chris Gehlker) (09/03/90)
In a message to All dated 08/30/90 at 17:22:02, Adam Schabtach writes: schabtac@stout.atd.ucar.edu (Adam Schabtach) writes: AS> However, the way I deal with Folders From Hell (TM) is by dragging AS> them onto the desktop (usually conveniently close to the Trash) and AS> renaming them something like 'From Hell' or 'Dead.' Then the next time AS> I boot or restart, I can throw them in the Trash and they stay there. AS> It seems that the restart takes care of them (at least on my system). If that works, they aren't true Folders from Hell. What you've had is merely a Folder from Purgatory. The same is true for folders where you can look in them with ResEdit or the like and find a locked, invisible file. With these you just make the file unlocked and invisible and you can trash the folder. In fact, Virtual always turns your System Folder into a Folder from Purgatory but True folders from Hell are rarer. BTW, I'm unsure of the header etiquite here. Please let me know which, if either, of the header lines above is appropriate. -- Uucp: ...{gatech,ames,rutgers}!ncar!asuvax!stjhmc!56.12!Chris.Gehlker Internet: Chris.Gehlker@p12.f56.n114.z1.fidonet.org
roskar@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU (Veljko Roskar) (09/03/90)
In article <8369@ncar.ucar.edu> schabtac@stout.atd.ucar.edu (Adam Schabtach) writes: >I certainly hope you're taking the time to back up -- it will take MUCH longer >to reconstruct your MS if you don't have a backup when your hard disk dies >(notice I said 'when' rather than 'if' :-). > >However, the way I deal with Folders From Hell (TM) is by dragging >them onto the desktop (usually conveniently close to the Trash) and >renaming them something like 'From Hell' or 'Dead.' Then the next time >I boot or restart, I can throw them in the Trash and they stay there. >It seems that the restart takes care of them (at least on my system). > Well I do keep my MS Thesis (and System folder) backed up, but I don't have the time to back up the rest of the junk I've accumulated. I also have the the Word Application on original discs so I don't need to back up that either. I tried restarting and just about everything but it didn't work. I also tried to fix the error with MacTools Rescue, but that didn't work either. It told me that it was fixing the extent file or something, but the F From Hell remained. So much for new products. -- Veljko Roskar | roskar@jhuvms.bitnet Department of Chemical Engineering | roskar@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu The Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore | uunet!mimsy!aplcen!jhunix!roskar
pj@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Paul Jacoby) (09/04/90)
> >Aha, the "Folder from Hell" raises it's ugly head again. This > > seems to be a >particurlarly prevalent problem with system 6.0.3 > > though no one has kept >accurate >statistics. What you have is a > > corrupted B* tree. The easiest way to fix it >is with Norton > > Utilities. I don't know of anyone who's had this problem with > > >6.0.5. I have a Compactor archive with shows the "Busy" checkbox in ResEdit. That checkbox is UNchangeable, and no number of reboots has cleared the problem. This is under 6.0.5, MF 6.1b9, Compactor 1.21. Off to find the Delete Busy FKEY! .-----------------------------------------------------------------------------. | UUCP: {rosevax, crash, orator}!orbit!pnet51!pj | Working with idiots keeps | | ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!pj@nosc.mil | my life interesting... | | INET: pj@pnet51.cts.com | | `-----------------------------------------------------------------------------'
dbarnhar@oiscola.Columbia.NCR.COM (09/05/90)
In article <25910.26E2384C@stjhmc.fidonet.org> Chris.Gehlker@p12.f56.n114.z1.fidonet.org (Chris Gehlker) writes: >In a message to All dated 08/30/90 at 17:22:02, Adam Schabtach writes: >schabtac@stout.atd.ucar.edu (Adam Schabtach) writes: > >AS> However, the way I deal with Folders From Hell (TM) is by dragging >AS> them onto the desktop (usually conveniently close to the Trash) and >AS> renaming them something like 'From Hell' or 'Dead.' Then the next time >AS> I boot or restart, I can throw them in the Trash and they stay there. >AS> It seems that the restart takes care of them (at least on my system). > >If that works, they aren't true Folders from Hell. What you've had is merely >a Folder from Purgatory. The same is true for folders where you can look in >them with ResEdit or the like and find a locked, invisible file. With these >you just make the file unlocked and invisible and you can trash the folder. > In fact, Virtual always turns your System Folder into a Folder from Purgatory > >but True folders from Hell are rarer. > Agreed. All of my FFHs are much harder to do anything with. They cannot be moved from the current folder in which they reside, and they cannot be renamed. What's more, if you place a folder of the same name in the folder with the FFH, the FFH will appear to be deleted, but upon reboot, *BOTH* folders are there, and they still have the same name. I haven't yet tried the trick of changing the # of files byte to 00, but unless it causes a rebuild of the catalog file, I doubt that it will help. Of course, that won't keep me from trying it out tonight. Dave Barnhart NCR Cooperative Computing Systems Division 3245 Platt Springs Rd. West Columbia, SC 29169 email: uunet!ncrlnk!ncrcae!secola!oiscola!dbarnhar -- Dave Barnhart NCR Cooperative Computing Systems Division 3245 Platt Springs Rd. West Columbia, SC 29169 email: uunet!ncrlnk!ncrcae!secola!oiscola!dbarnhar
gmoff@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Moffat) (09/05/90)
roskar@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU (Veljko Roskar) writes: >>I boot or restart, I can throw them in the Trash and they stay there. >>It seems that the restart takes care of them (at least on my system). ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >have the the Word Application on original discs so I don't need to back up Some folks always learn the hard way, don't they? BTW, how much time have you spent already trying to get rid of the thing? A simple, sledge-hammer remedy: 1- Backup all your disk (since you do this regularly, an incremental backup doesn't take very long, does it :-)) except the problem stuff 2- Reformat 3- Restore from backups (I use SUM Backup which positions folders/windows exactly as they were, a feature which IMO makes up for the lack of flexibility in choosing what is backed-up/restored) This also gives you, for free, a complete file de-fragmentation and disk optimisation :-) Who needs to buy DiskExpress or SUM Tuneup? -- Graeme Moffat Phone : +64 9 737 999 x8384 Computer Aided Design Centre, Fax : +64 9 366 0702 School of Engineering, Mail : Private Bag, Auckland, NZ University of Auckland Email : gmoff@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz -- Graeme Moffat Phone : +64 9 737 999 x8384 Computer Aided Design Centre, Fax : +64 9 366 0702 School of Engineering, Mail : Private Bag, Auckland, NZ University of Auckland Email : gmoff@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz