johnsonr@spot.Colorado.EDU (Richard Johnson) (09/21/90)
I've been playing telephone tag with the folks at Fifth Generation Systems support. My question is simple. I'm a FastBack II owner, and I want to know if a newer version of the program supports DEC's SCSI TK-50 tape drive (I no longer have a working Apple unit). My problem: their message center refuses to take any message other than "so-and-so called with a question". Since the University hasn't seen fit to give lowly graduate students phones in their offices, and I'm often in class, I'm not around when they call back. Three times around this useless loop is too much. On the strength (or lack thereof) of their technical support message center, Fifth Generation Systems has convinced me that FastBack II is not a viable option for backing up my HD anymore. I've heard of Retrospect, but what are the other options? (You can bet I'll try their support procedures before I buy, too.) Richard johnsonr@spot.colorado.edu
dan@hpnmdla.HP.COM (Dan Pleasant) (09/21/90)
>I've been playing telephone tag with the folks at Fifth Generation >Systems support. My question is simple. I'm a FastBack II owner, >and I want to know if a newer version of the program supports DEC's >SCSI TK-50 tape drive (I no longer have a working Apple unit). My >problem: their message center refuses to take any message other than >"so-and-so called with a question". Since the University hasn't seen >fit to give lowly graduate students phones in their offices, and I'm >often in class, I'm not around when they call back. Three times >around this useless loop is too much. > >On the strength (or lack thereof) of their technical support message >center, Fifth Generation Systems has convinced me that FastBack II is >not a viable option for backing up my HD anymore. I've heard of >Retrospect, but what are the other options? (You can bet I'll try >their support procedures before I buy, too.) > >Richard >johnsonr@spot.colorado.edu ---------- [Disclaimer in advance: I'm one of Fastback II's authors, but I don't work for Fifth Generation Systems and I don't get royalties from sales of Fastback II.] Frankly, I don't see how you can blame FGS just because you don't have a phone. FGS *is* calling you back, right? If you think it's so easy to explain your problem to a secretary-receptionist type, then why not explain it to your secretary (or whoever is answering your phone and taking messages for you), who can then explain it to FGS tech support when they call back? In general, you can't expect most secretaries to take technical messages and get them right, and I assume that's why the FGS phone-answerer doesn't try. Maybe you have a secretary who can. I know that CU is cheap (except where the football team is concerned) -- I got my B.S. there. But let's not flame well-intentioned, hardworking tech support people just because you're going to an underfunded university. In answer to your original question, I must say that I'm not familiar with the DEC TK-50, and you're the first person who has requested it that I know of. In fact, I won't even go so far as to say that the TK-50 will work on the Mac *at all* -- does DEC use differential or single-ended SCSI? But if you have version 2.1 of Fastback II, and the TK-50 doesn't work, then it won't work on version 2.5 (the latest) either. Flames to /dev/null, please. Dan Pleasant
m_herodotus@coors.dec.com (Mario Herodotus - Digital Customer Support Center (800) 525-6570) (09/22/90)
In article <26624@boulder.Colorado.EDU>, johnsonr@spot.Colorado.EDU (Richard Johnson) writes... >I've been playing telephone tag with the folks at Fifth Generation >Systems support. My question is simple. I'm a FastBack II owner, >and I want to know if a newer version of the program supports DEC's >SCSI TK-50 tape drive (I no longer have a working Apple unit). My >problem: their message center refuses to take any message other than >"so-and-so called with a question". Since the University hasn't seen >fit to give lowly graduate students phones in their offices, and I'm >often in class, I'm not around when they call back. Three times >around this useless loop is too much. > >On the strength (or lack thereof) of their technical support message >center, Fifth Generation Systems has convinced me that FastBack II is >not a viable option for backing up my HD anymore. I've heard of >Retrospect, but what are the other options? (You can bet I'll try >their support procedures before I buy, too.) > >Richard >johnsonr@spot.colorado.edu > You've got to be kidding! Your not around to recieve a callback, and you blame the support staff? Call them when you have some time to be by the phone! I work in a support center too, I don't want my ability to support judged by a persons availability to take a callback. If they call you and can't answer your question then you have a reason to complain, but if they can't reach you because of a situation that is out of their control, then that is not their fault, it's yours. Mario -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I can't afford my own opinions, and DEC won't pay for them either. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mario Herodotus [ CX03 1/K4 ] | m_herodotus@coors.dec.com Digital Equipment Corporation | Customer Support Center | - or - m_herodotus%coors.dec@decwrl.dec.com 305 Rockrimmon Blvd. | Colorado Springs, CO 80919 | - or - ...!decwrl!coors.dec.com!m_herodotus (800) 525-6570 Ext 25520 | [direct line (719) 592-5520] | --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RMG3@psuvm.psu.edu (09/25/90)
In article <1938@mountn.dec.com>, m_herodotus@coors.dec.com (Mario Herodotus - Digital Customer Support Center (800) 525-6570) says: >In article <26624@boulder.Colorado.EDU>, johnsonr@spot.Colorado.EDU (Richard >Johnson) writes... >> Since the University hasn't seen >>fit to give lowly graduate students phones in their offices, and I'm >>often in class, I'm not around when they call back. Three times >>around this useless loop is too much. >You've got to be kidding! Your not around to recieve a callback, and you >blame >the support staff? Call them when you have some time to be by the phone! The > comments are from someone who works in 'customer service'. The >> are from a frustrated user who is trying to get some service. I always had a sneaking suspicion that > was the attitude of the people claiming to be in customer 'service'. After the company sends out hardware or software that doesn't work (not quite the situation here, but it generalizes) the company then feels it is up to the customer to sit on hold, or by the phone, until the company feels ready to give an answer. Obviously nobody would ever have a life other than to wait by the phone for the customer 'service' people to come off coffee breaks, figure out why the product doesn't work in the first place, play darts, or whatever. Fortunately not all customer service people are like this. Unfortunately many are. (I recently went through problems with a company with a piece of hardware that was dead on arrival, and whose external switches were incorrectly set. The unit was eventually repaired, in 6 days rather than the 48 hours guaranteed. On the repair sheet they took credit for setting the switches that I had fixed. My recent experience reminded me about the bad end of things.) Bob Grumbine a.k.a. rmg3@psuvm.psu.edu
francis@morganucodon.cis.ohio-state.edu (RD Francis) (09/26/90)
In article <90268.095830RMG3@psuvm.psu.edu> RMG3@psuvm.psu.edu writes: >In article <1938@mountn.dec.com>, m_herodotus@coors.dec.com (Mario Herodotus - >Digital Customer Support Center (800) 525-6570) says: >>In article <26624@boulder.Colorado.EDU>, johnsonr@spot.Colorado.EDU (Richard >>Johnson) writes... >>> Since the University hasn't seen >>>fit to give lowly graduate students phones in their offices, and I'm >>>often in class, I'm not around when they call back. Three times >>>around this useless loop is too much. >>You've got to be kidding! Your not around to recieve a callback, and you >>blame >>the support staff? Call them when you have some time to be by the phone! > The [>>] comments are from someone who works in 'customer service'. The > [>>>] are from a frustrated user who is trying to get some service. > I always had a sneaking suspicion that > was the attitude of the people >claiming to be in customer 'service'. After the company sends out hardware >or software that doesn't work (not quite the situation here, but it >generalizes) the company then feels it is up to the customer to sit on >hold, or by the phone, until the company feels ready to give an answer. >Obviously nobody would ever have a life other than to wait by the phone >for the customer 'service' people to come off coffee breaks, figure out >why the product doesn't work in the first place, play darts, or whatever. I have to agree here. It's not a simple, clearcut case of someone bitching because you didn't call them when they were there. The customer in this case was willing to try to pass on more information to the support people through their message center; the message center refused to take down the details of the customer's problem. Customer support should be there to support the customer; this includes customers who may have special needs. It's not that much to ask for the message center to take down a sentence or two about the problem. For that matter, it shouldn't be too much for the message center to figure out *when* the customer is available, and include that information with the message, or for the customer support people to put a message back into the queue if a call is unsuccessful. I've had to deal with customer support people who don't seem to agree with me. There was one customer support group (no names, as I don't want to be seen as taking a cheap shot, since I don't think either of the companies I've dealt with most frequently have net access) that couldn't manage to contact me when I was in the office. Everytime I called, I would tell them, "I'll be leaving my office at 5PM my time, that's 2PM your time. If you can't call me then, call me in the morning." Next morning, sure enough, around 7PM my time, their people had called. I'm not allowed to go home? I've got to wait around for these people, who might be too busy to get back to me that day? The customer support person says "Call them when you have some time to be by the phone. I've had customer service people not get to my message for *DAYS*! Find me anyone who needs to call customer support folk and can afford to sit by the phone for days, hoping they'll call! We've got our own jobs to do, however difficult they may have been made by the lack of a callback from a customer service department. Oh, and when you call and I'm not there, what happens then? From my experience, the customer support person must say, "Gee, guess he didn't *really* want support or he'd still be by the phone. I left a message, he can call us back." This is a crock of shit, folks. Especially when I'm willing to give you my availability (you can rarely do more than leave a message for the customer support people when you call in, making that a futile endeavor), I'd think the least you could do is not merely leave me a message, but also, return my request to the queue. I shouldn't have to call three times to get someone to call back and get in touch with me, especially when dealing with companies that have busy customer service departments where I can never get throught o a customer support person on my first try! Finally, as a courtesy, if the person with whom the message is left could give us an idea (it's allowed to be wrong) as to how long before we can expect a callback, it would be very helpful. -- R David Francis francis@cis.ohio-state.edu
m_herodotus@coors.dec.com (Mario Herodotus - Digital Customer Support Center (800) 525-6570) (09/29/90)
In article <84049@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu>, francis@morganucodon.cis.ohio-state.edu (RD Francis)
This is a synopsis...the people here seem to think that the customer support
centers are responsible for getting a hold of a customer...
I have had many situations where I have tried to contact customers and
they were not available. The policy here at Digital (for hardware calls) is to
give the customer a callback within 10 minutes (within one hour for software).
There are times when it is very busy here and we do not meet these goals, but
we try. Put yourself in our situation, I try to call you but you don't answer,
should I hold this call and keep trying because you may have gone to take care
of some other business or should I leave a message and get on to the next call.
I usually go on to the next call. My reasoning is that if I hold onto this
call, then everyone waits for you to get to a phone. If I go on to the next
call there are more people who get a person to speak with.
The support we provide here at Digital is a contract service and since
we recieve payment for it we can staff according to the size of the business.
If we have a lot of contracts we have a lot of specialist. This is probably
very different from the support centers at some of the software vendors we all
(me too) deal with. If they run a limited support staff as a customer curtesy
you will have to deal with long delays what else can they do but start charging
for the service (which you would like even less). Remember staffing costs a
company and someone has to pay.
Here at Digital we also try to screen calls as they come in. A call
that is severe (systems or clusters down/hung for instance) will receive a
faster response then something less severe (how long can an EIA cable be?). We
also try to accomodate customers that can't receive call backs (I have paged
customers that leave pager numbers so they can call me when I'm ready, I have
called customers at prearranged times, and best for everyone is asking a
customer for a dialup number, username and password to their system along with
a description of the problem...I then log in when I'm ready and diagnose the
problem and can either call back or send mail to any account the customer
specifies (we do this with almost every call in the hardware queue)).
I have been on the other end of the phone, as a user needing support
too. I try my best to work within the guidlines that the support group has set
up, but I have had times where I've been upset by the service too. I don't
send a message to the net saying the product isn't worth it. I try to ask the
person answering the phone to escalate the status of my call, or I ask to speak
to a manager. There are better ways to deal with the problem then the original
poster did. Also it sounds to me that the person involved here did not have
much time at all to wait for a callback, this is not the support staffs fault
its his own problem.
The worst situation though is when you get one of those call menuing
systems...these force you to wait until someone is ready to talk to you.
Personally I like the call back support staffing strategy better. I can get
some things done while I wait rather than listen to musak while I pay long
distance charges.
I don't mean to sound like I'm too busy to call anyone back, I do my
best to return calls. I try as often as is posible during my shift to get back
to customers (most people are there for the first callback by the way) but like
the last post said "I have to go home sometime too". If a call is only a
couple of hours old I'll pass it on to another specialist, If it is older then
that I will send a message to the local Field Service rep to contact this
customer about the problem. Like I said earlier I try my best and I don't like
my ability to support judged by someones inability to receive a callback.
Mario
PS I don't drink coffe or take smoke breaks, so if I don't call right away
atleast you know that wasn't the reason ;^)
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I can't afford my own opinions, and DEC won't pay for them either.
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Mario Herodotus [ CX03 1/K4 ] | m_herodotus@coors.dec.com
Digital Equipment Corporation |
Customer Support Center | - or - m_herodotus%coors.dec@decwrl.dec.com
305 Rockrimmon Blvd. |
Colorado Springs, CO 80919 | - or - ...!decwrl!coors.dec.com!m_herodotus
(800) 525-6570 Ext 25520 |
[direct line (719) 592-5520] |
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