gross@umiami.miami.edu (JD144) (09/19/90)
I'm curious...
Now, an Amiga 3000 can be had for about $3400...and the AMAX II emulator
for about...$450 (?)
What I wanna know is...if you have this little setup...to which Mac is
it comparable to? Is it as fast as IIci (the A3000 and Iici use the
same 25MHz '030) or is it a little faster than the IIci?
Jes wonderin'... :)
--
Jason Gross Comp Sci Ugrad University of Miami Class of '91 (?)
===========================================================================
Hey, wanna save the world? | Got sumtin' to say? gross@umiami.bitnet
Nuke a Godless, Communist, | Pick and choose! gross@umiami.miami.edu
gay whale for Christ. | gross@miavax.ir.miami.edu
- Anonymous | jgross@umbio.med.miami.edu
===========================================================================
The University of Miami has a lovely fountain. Patrick.Hayes@cediag.bull.fr (Patrick Hayes) (09/19/90)
I personally wouldn't consider it the equal of a ci for the simple reason that the AMAX only gives Mac + (or maybe Mac SE) ROM compatablity. No color QD, etc... Looks more like an accelerated Plus to me. What are the current prices on a Mac + and a 25 Mhz accelerator nowadays? Pat -- +-------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | Patrick Hayes | EMail : Patrick.Hayes@cediag.bull.fr | | BULL CEDIAG | or hayes@bull.fr | | 68, Route de Versailles | or ...!mcvax!inria!bullfr!hayes | | F-78430 Louveciennes FRANCE | Tel : (33 1) 39 02 49 55 | +-------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
mjv@brownvm.brown.edu (Marshall Vale) (09/20/90)
In article <6956.26f6cc18@umiami.miami.edu> gross@umiami.miami.edu (JD144) writes: > What I wanna know is...if you have this little setup...to which Mac is > it comparable to? Is it as fast as IIci (the A3000 and Iici use the > same 25MHz '030) or is it a little faster than the IIci? Actually its comparable to a Mac Plus with a 25Mhz '030 upgrade. Why? Its because Amax (& Spectre for the Atari) use the 128k roms from a Plus. The IIci uses the 512k roms which contain ColorQuickdraw for instance. Unless conditions really change, Amax and Spectre will be stuck at the Plus level for quite awhile. Marshall --mjv@brownvm.brown.edu
bainbrdk@sage.cc.purdue.edu (David Bainbridge) (09/20/90)
In article <50421@brunix.UUCP> mjv@brownvm.brown.edu (Marshall Vale) writes: >> What I wanna know is...if you have this little setup...to which Mac is >> it comparable to? Is it as fast as IIci (the A3000 and Iici use the >> same 25MHz '030) or is it a little faster than the IIci? > >Actually its comparable to a Mac Plus with a 25Mhz '030 upgrade. Why? >Its because Amax (& Spectre for the Atari) use the 128k roms from a Plus. >The IIci uses the 512k roms which contain ColorQuickdraw for instance. >Unless conditions really change, Amax and Spectre will be stuck at the >Plus level for quite awhile. I believe it will be always stuck at the plus level since the newer machines have the ROMS soldered onto the motherboard. Whereas the Plus were placed into a socket easily removeable. Apple must have gotten worried about all those Mac Plus ROM's floating around..
rapickering@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (09/22/90)
In article <6956.26f6cc18@umiami.miami.edu>, gross@umiami.miami.edu (JD144) writes: > I'm curious... > > Now, an Amiga 3000 can be had for about $3400...and the AMAX II emulator > for about...$450 (?) > > What I wanna know is...if you have this little setup...to which Mac is > it comparable to? Is it as fast as IIci (the A3000 and Iici use the > same 25MHz '030) or is it a little faster than the IIci? > And educational prices make the IIci around $3400. Gee, I think I'd rather have a mac. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Rob Pickering internet: pickerin@apsvax.aps.muohio.edu NeXT: pickerin@next4.acs.muohio.edu bitnet : rp1voper@miamiu.bitnet "One time the police stopped me for speeding, and they said,'Hey, don't you know that the speed limit is 55 miles per hour?'. I said,'Yeah, I know...but I wasn't going to be out that long.'" -Steven Wright $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
greg@walt.cc.utexas.edu (Greg Harp) (09/23/90)
In article <2376.26fb33e2@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu> rapickering@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu imagines:: >In article <6956.26f6cc18@umiami.miami.edu>, gross@umiami.miami.edu (JD144) writes: >> I'm curious... >> >> Now, an Amiga 3000 can be had for about $3400...and the AMAX II emulator >> for about...$450 (?) >> >> What I wanna know is...if you have this little setup...to which Mac is >> it comparable to? Is it as fast as IIci (the A3000 and Iici use the >> same 25MHz '030) or is it a little faster than the IIci? >> Can't say, but I _do_ know that my 7.14Mhz Amiga running Amax is faster than a 7.56Mhz Mac. (Custom chips, guys...) The effect is minimal, and wouldn't probably be significant until you were doing ray-traces or some other major number-crunching. (And why would I do ray-tracing on a Mac anyway? Ever priced Sculpt 3D for both Amiga and Mac?) And then I can still use AmigaDOS instead of the Mac's OS when I don't need Mac compatibility. That's nice, since I can't stand Mac's OS. >And educational prices make the IIci around $3400. Is that including a color graphics board and monitor? Keyboard? Hard drive? The A3000 comes with a keyboard (what a concept!), graphics built in, SCSI on the motherboard, 50MB Quantum HD, 2MB RAM, etc. The educational package with a multisync monitor comes to $3039. >Gee, I think I'd rather have a mac. Thanks, considering that the waiting list for A3000s is getting longer. CBM can't keep up with the DEMAND for them! >Rob Pickering >internet: pickerin@apsvax.aps.muohio.edu NeXT: pickerin@next4.acs.muohio.edu >bitnet : rp1voper@miamiu.bitnet Just what is the price of a Mac IIci with 8-bit graphics, 40-50MB Quantum, KEYBOARD, hi-res color monitor, and at least 2MB of RAM? List and educational, please... Disclaimer: "Who me? Surely you must be mistaken!" _ _ "The lunatic is in the hall. The lunatics are in my hall. AMIGA! //// The paper holds their folded faces to the floor, //// And every day the paperboy brings more." -- Pink Floyd _ _ //// \\\\//// Greg Harp greg@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu \\XX// Stolen from an idea by es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu [Ethan Solomita]: execute (Saddam_Hussein); oil_prices++;
oleg@crash.cts.com (Oleg Rovner) (09/23/90)
In article <2376.26fb33e2@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu> rapickering@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu writes: >In article <6956.26f6cc18@umiami.miami.edu>, gross@umiami.miami.edu (JD144) writes: >> I'm curious... >> >> Now, an Amiga 3000 can be had for about $3400...and the AMAX II emulator >> for about...$450 (?) >> > >And educational prices make the IIci around $3400. > >Gee, I think I'd rather have a mac. > [.sig skipped] Apple Macintosh price list at the UCSD UniversitBookstore (prices for qualified UCSD faculty staff and students only! (as of 9.11.90)) M5737ll/a Macintosh IIci (4Mb, 1 Super Drive, '030 CPU, 25 MHz, built in video) $4,100,00 Prices do not include monitor ($750.00for Apple color) or keyboard ($100. apple standard) TOTAL: $4,950.00<> "around" $3,400.00 So, where can I get a Mac IIci wih the "luxury items" like monitor and keyboard for $3,400.00? OR contents copyright (c) 1990 Oleg Rovner and may not be quoted and/or distributed without permission except by/on USENET and /dev/null ********************************************************************** "Tommy Lasorda may not be a typical SlimFast user" SlimFast disclaimer
ar4@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Piper Keairnes) (09/23/90)
In <37507@ut-emx.uucp> greg@walt.cc.utexas.edu (Greg Harp) writes: >The A3000 comes with a keyboard (what a concept!), graphics built in, SCSI >on the motherboard, 50MB Quantum HD, 2MB RAM, etc. The educational package >with a multisync monitor comes to $3039. When the keyboard isn't included, it allows for people to choose the one they want. YES, the IIci has 8-bit color built in, and SCSI is standard on everything above and including the SE. But, overall the Amiga is cheaper. 50MB HD standard? No. 2MB? IIci comes with 4MB in student discount packages here at Purdue. >Just what is the price of a Mac IIci with 8-bit graphics, 40-50MB Quantum, >KEYBOARD, hi-res color monitor, and at least 2MB of RAM? List and >educational, please... Well, when it comes down to it. That totals up to about $5000 (with a 105MB drive as opposed to 50MB). The NeXTstation looks comparitively good, but I can't do what I need to on a NeXT. I don't know about Amiga software, but I'm sure you'd love to tell me. If you choose to do so, forward it to comp.sys.amiga please! We here at comp.sys.mac don't read these groups to hear why we shouldn't own a Mac... so please let's not continue this discussion here. ----- Piper Keairnes ar4@sage.cc.purdue.edu
sross@alchemy.UUCP (Steve Ross) (09/23/90)
Lets put this whole thing to rest before it gets out of hand.
If you bought your Amiga to run Mac software, then you bought it for the wrong
reason (and you bought the wrong machine). Sure, it's nice to be able to run
an occasional Mac thing here and there, but I would much rather run Mac
programs on a Mac, IBM programs on an IBM, and Amiga programs on an Amiga. I
have both a Mac and an Amiga, and must say that they have different strengths
and different weaknesses. Essentially you're comparing Apples and <well,
Amigas, but lets just say Oranges>. They do different things.
SteveSonny.Shrivastava@f555.n161.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sonny Shrivastava) (09/23/90)
Here's what I know about the AMAX. It doesn't support color. Furthermore,
it is only limited to 128k ROMs, which severely limits its usability. If you
are looking to use the Mac features primarily, but are buying an Amiga
because of price, don't. Might as well get a Mac.
I would assume, since AMAX totally disables the Amiga and dedicates its
system resources to running Mac software, I would say it probably performs
comparably to an accelerated Mac Plus. I'm not sure that the Amiga disk
drive can read Mac disks directly - it definitely cannot read/write Mac
high-density disks. Also, if you run AMAX on anything less than an A3000,
you'll get a 640x400 interlaced (i.e., flickering) screen. Since you're
dealing with black/white high-contrast images, the flicker will be
intolerable.
Of course, you can't use any Mac hardware add-ons either. You will also
need to purchase the Mac ROMs from somewhere. I heard that these can be
purchased from Apple dealers, but I've also heard that Apple doesn't want
those ROMs to be sold. This tells me that it's questionably whether or not
you can get your hands on Mac ROMs.
--
Sonny Shrivastava - via FidoNet node 1:125/777
UUCP: ...!uunet!hoptoad!fidogate!161!555!Sonny.Shrivastava
INTERNET: Sonny.Shrivastava@f555.n161.z1.FIDONET.ORGar4@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Piper Keairnes) (09/24/90)
In <4593@crash.cts.com> oleg@crash.cts.com (Oleg Rovner) writes: >Apple Macintosh price list at the UCSD UniversitBookstore (prices for >qualified UCSD faculty staff and students only! (as of 9.11.90)) >M5737ll/a Macintosh IIci (4Mb, 1 Super Drive, '030 CPU, 25 MHz, >built in video) $4,100,00 What makes one University's educational prices different from another? Here at Purdue University, the IIci with 4MB RAM costs $3820. The same setup with an 80MB Quantum drive is $4286. What also upsets me is that these prices are listed as up to date as of September 15th and they exactly match the prices listed as of August 15th. Wasn't there a significant drop in the IIci's price before/on September 15th? When will this be reflected?!? (If ever...) ----- Piper Keairnes ar4@sage.cc.purdue.edu
jtt@cunixd.cc.columbia.edu (James T. Tanis) (09/24/90)
PLEASE move this discussion to comp.sys.mac.misc, or, if you prefer, to /dev/null! -JT
seanc@pro-party.cts.com (Sean Cunningham) (09/25/90)
In-Reply-To: message from greg@walt.cc.utexas.edu Realisticly, if you were to make a price comparison between an A3000 and a ][ci (in terms of price), you'd have to go with an A3000-25/100. This is the 25MHz '030/882 model with the 100Mb Quantum drive, and 5Mb of RAM. I don't have the exact price in front of me, but it's under $4K for that system, plus the 14" A1950 multiscan. And of course you get AmigaVision thrown in. Sean //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// UUCP: ...!crash!pnet01!pro-party!seanc | ARPA: !crash!pnet01!pro-party!seanc@nosc.mil | " Fanatics have their INET: seanc@pro-party.cts.com | dreams, wherewith they | weave a paradise for RealWorld: Sean Cunningham | a sect. " Voice: (512) 994-1602 PLINK: ce3k* | -Keats | Call C.B.A.U.G. BBS (512) 883-8351 w/SkyPix | B^) VISION GRAPHICS B^) \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
252u3129@fergvax.unl.edu (Mike Gleason) (09/26/90)
> You will also need to purchase the Mac ROMs from somewhere. I > heard that these can be purchased from Apple dealers, but I've > also heard that Apple doesn't want those ROMs to be sold. As distressing as it will seem to us 'legit' Macintosh owners, you don't need to buy the 128k ROMs. A friend of mine with an Amiga has a version of the Amax software hacked by pirates that reads in the Mac ROM from disk. Actually he got the whole Amax thing and the Mac ROM on disk for the cost of downloading off a pirate board somewhere. The interlace isn't very annoying either. He can also make the screen larger than the traditional 512x342, so in all, he will get a psuedo-mac whose screen is larger than mine, faster than mine, and several hundred bucks cheaper than I paid for my real MacPlus. Sigh.... _____________________________________________________________________________ * Mike Gleason 252u3129@fergvax.unl.edu * "Don't you f*ckin' look at me!" -- D. Hopper cosc006@unlcdc2.unl.edu
ar4@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Piper Keairnes) (09/28/90)
In <1990Sep26.153139.5802@hoss.unl.edu> 252u3129@fergvax.unl.edu (Mike Gleason) writes: >As distressing as it will seem to us 'legit' Macintosh owners, you don't >need to buy the 128k ROMs. A friend of mine with an Amiga has a version >of the Amax software hacked by pirates that reads in the Mac ROM from >disk. Actually he got the whole Amax thing and the Mac ROM on disk for >the cost of downloading off a pirate board somewhere. You are awfully brave to admit that you know of someone who has an illegal copy of Mac ROMs and he is still your friend. Is he in jail yet? Nope? Should be.... ;-) ----- Piper Keairnes ar4@sage.cc.purdue.edu
russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto) (09/28/90)
In article <4517@sage.cc.purdue.edu> ar4@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Piper Keairnes) writes: >In <1990Sep26.153139.5802@hoss.unl.edu> 252u3129@fergvax.unl.edu (Mike Gleason) writes: > > >>As distressing as it will seem to us 'legit' Macintosh owners, you don't >>need to buy the 128k ROMs. A friend of mine with an Amiga has a version >>of the Amax software hacked by pirates that reads in the Mac ROM from >>disk. Actually he got the whole Amax thing and the Mac ROM on disk for >>the cost of downloading off a pirate board somewhere. > >You are awfully brave to admit that you know of someone who has an illegal >copy of Mac ROMs and he is still your friend. Is he in jail yet? Nope? >Should be.... ;-) Did you know that Macsbug calls the police every time you do an IL in Macsbug in ROM? (You may not disassemble, reverse compile, reverse engineer, etc, etc, etc) Seriously,(and in response to a previous message) I believe there are some states where 'shrink-wrap' licenses like that on the system software are not valid. In such a case, couldn't a clone-maker make his clone there, and require users to buy Real Apple system software? -- Matthew T. Russotto russotto@eng.umd.edu russotto@wam.umd.edu .sig under construction, like the rest of this campus.
seanc@pro-party.cts.com (Sean Cunningham) (09/29/90)
In-Reply-To: message from 252u3129@fergvax.unl.edu While I'm aware of the "pirateware" version of the Apple ROMs, the real ones aren't hard to get at all, and you don't have to go through Apple or their dealers to get them. Up until last Saturday, I worked at the local Ami-store. We had more than one distributor that could provide them, and they are available from almost every mailorder house that sells Amax, or the AmigaTosh drive (a mac-compatible 3.5" 800Kb floppy drive with internal sockets for the ROMs)... I won't even pretend to know where they're getting them though...heh, looks like it isn't just Commodore that has to worry about "grey market" products. Sean // \X/ C. //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// UUCP: ...!crash!pnet01!pro-party!seanc | ARPA: !crash!pnet01!pro-party!seanc@nosc.mil | " Fanatics have their INET: seanc@pro-party.cts.com | dreams, wherewith they | weave a paradise for RealWorld: Sean Cunningham | a sect. " Voice: (512) 994-1602 PLINK: ce3k* | -Keats | Call C.B.A.U.G. BBS (512) 883-8351 w/SkyPix | B^) VISION GRAPHICS B^) \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
jimb@silvlis.com (Jim Budler) (10/02/90)
In article <1990Sep28.154417.1086@eng.umd.edu> russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto) writes: >Seriously,(and in response to a previous message) >I believe there are some states where 'shrink-wrap' licenses >like that on the system software are not valid. In such a case, couldn't >a clone-maker make his clone there, and require users to buy Real Apple >system software? There are some states where 'shrink-wrap' licenses are not valid. However I don't believe Apple System Software License qualifies as 'shrink-wrap'. Or at least the portion on the outside which always states something like "This software is only licensed for use on a single Apple Macintosh CPU." Usually the 'shrink-wrap' laws only require that if on opening the package, the conditions are unacceptable, you can get a full refund despite any conditions in the license stating otherwise. They don't allow you to ignore *all* the license conditions on your own judgement. >-- >Matthew T. Russotto russotto@eng.umd.edu russotto@wam.umd.edu jim -- Jim Budler jimb@silvlis.com +1.408.991.6115 Silvar-Lisco, Inc. 703 E. Evelyn Ave. Sunnyvale, Ca. 94086