[comp.sys.mac.misc] MS Word 4.0 freezing -- HELP!!

nagel@wintermute.ics.uci.edu (Mark Nagel) (10/06/90)

I am having a very strange problem with Microsoft Word 4.0 and after
trying everything I know, I thought I'd turn to the collective
wisdom of the net to hopefully find a solution.

Background: I have a Mac 512Ke with a Dove 548S (2M) upgrade.  I run
System 6.04 usually have a smattering of INITs.  MS Word is version
4.0 (not a or b).

Recently, the Dove board fritzed, and while it was out for repair, I
borrowed an SE/30, and used my hard disk for everything.  After I got
the Dove board back, I installed it and tried it out.  Soon, my wife
noticed that MS Word was freezing up.  This is not unheard of, so I
did my standard "re-install Word from the locked master disk, remove
all setup files, etc." to start from a fresh uncorrupted state.  I
also scanned for virii, but found none.  Launching the freshly
installed MS Word resulted in the same behavior, albeit, it took a
bit longer to manifest.  That behavior is, more precisely, that
sometime soon after starting Word, usually after selecting a menu
command, the screen locks up, but the mouse still moves normally.
Nothing breaks out of this (apparently) tight loop, not even
breaking out to MacsBug and doing an 'es' or even an 'rs'.  My final
hope was that perhaps the System was corrupted (unlikely since every
other application I've used works fine).  I reinstalled System 6.04,
turned off all INITs by dragging them to a subfolder, re-installed
MS Word again, restarted, and launched MS Word.  Same behavior.
This is _extremely_ frustrating.  Has anyone ever experienced this?
Is there anything else I should try?  Incidentally, I've also used
MacTools Deluxe to analyze my hard disk, rebuilt the desktop, and
checked everything that I think might even remotely affect MS Word.

In short: HELP!!
--
Mark Nagel
UC Irvine Department of ICS   +----------------------------------------+
ARPA: nagel@ics.uci.edu       | radiation: smog with an attitude       |
UUCP: ucbvax!ucivax!nagel     +----------------------------------------+

holey@cs.umn.edu (J. Andrew Holey) (10/06/90)

nagel@wintermute.ics.uci.edu (Mark Nagel) writes:

>I am having a very strange problem with Microsoft Word 4.0 and after
>trying everything I know, I thought I'd turn to the collective
>wisdom of the net to hopefully find a solution.

I have had the same problem as described below.

>Background: I have a Mac 512Ke with a Dove 548S (2M) upgrade.  I run
>System 6.04 usually have a smattering of INITs.  MS Word is version
>4.0 (not a or b).

I have a Mac II with 5Mb, running system 6.0, MS Word version 4.0.

> ....  That behavior is, more precisely, that
>sometime soon after starting Word, usually after selecting a menu
>command, the screen locks up, but the mouse still moves normally.
>Nothing breaks out of this (apparently) tight loop, ....

I have noted the bahavior when I am changing style characteristics
using <command>-<alt>- key combinations.  Sometimes if I hit an
invalid key combination it freezes.  If I've neglected to save
recently, I become extremely frustrated.

I asked a local Mac guru who suggested it might be my screen saver
(Moire).  He told me to remove it, which I haven't, but I haven't had
the problem since either.

--Andy Holey
holey@umn-cs.cs.umn.edu
University of Minnesota
Computer Science Department

pevans@umd5.umd.edu (Peter Evans) (10/06/90)

In article <270CCE94.5585@ics.uci.edu> nagel@wintermute.ics.uci.edu (Mark Nagel) writes:
>I am having a very strange problem with Microsoft Word 4.0 and after
>trying everything I know, I thought I'd turn to the collective
>wisdom of the net to hopefully find a solution.
> ... stuff about word freezing up (mouse still moves cursor)

Ditto.  Same problem.  Word seems to go "off the air" usually for good
but sometimes for 10-20 seconds.  VERY strange.  I got rid of a few
inits and the problem stopped.  Gradually I put the inits back (when I
needed them) and the problem has not reappeared.  I suspect that the
fact the problem went away had nothing to do with the inits but I
cann't think of anything else.

Configuration is SE/30  Word 4.0  6.something system and finder.

rae@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu (Reid Ellis) (10/07/90)

In <7406@umd5.umd.edu> pevans@umd5.umd.edu (Peter Evans) writes:
|Ditto.  Same problem.  Word seems to go "off the air" usually for good
|but sometimes for 10-20 seconds.  VERY strange.  I got rid of a few
|inits and the problem stopped.
...
|Configuration is SE/30  Word 4.0  6.something system and finder.

I have the same problem.  Thought it was the Radius tear-off menu
INIT, but it's happened a number of times since I removed it.

Configuration is IIci, Word 4.0, 8Mb RAM, System 6.0.5, Radius
2PD, Apple 13" colour monitor.
--
Reid Ellis  264 Broadway Avenue, Toronto ON, M4P 1V9               Canada
rae@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu || rae%alias@csri.toronto.edu || +1 416 487 1383

walkerl@mrsvr.UUCP (Larry Walker) (10/09/90)

From article <rae.655245729@fred>, by rae@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu (Reid Ellis):
> In <7406@umd5.umd.edu> pevans@umd5.umd.edu (Peter Evans) writes:
> |Ditto.  Same problem.  Word seems to go "off the air" usually for good
> ..

Yet another sufferer: Mac 512K, w/Dove 548S, System 6.0.5, Word 4.01. Lockups
seem to occur mostly when opening a file, or when activating a menu item.
Thought I had it narrowed down to an old (v1.0) version of Shield init, but
I've had lockups even with Shield removed. Lockups are only semi-reproducible
with a given file, so it's nearly impossible to pin it on a particular
init. 
 
 PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, does anybody know what's going on???

jfmjfm@caen.engin.umich.edu (John Mansfield) (10/09/90)

Various people have been complaining that Word 4.0 does weird things.
Well there are 2 upgrades to 4.0, namely 4.0a and 4.0b.  However
Microsoft, in their infinite wisdom, choose not to make this generally
known.  The  fixes were supposedly for the new machines (when the
postable and IIci came out), but you might find there were other fixes
too.  I had very bad problems with my ci and complained on the net. I
was contacted by one of the Microsoft managers who forwarded me the
upgrade I needed.  This was very useful since they upgrade that was
sent from Microsoft Customer Service 
was 4.0a, even tho' I had requested 4.0b as I had
heard that this was the correct version for a ci with multiple
monitors.
Those of you using unusual hardware configurations (ie non-Apple
upgrades) should remember that the development at Microsoft is done on
Compaq PCs and cross compiled for the 680X0 machines.  I suspect that,
while they may have had a significant number of beta testers with
various configurations of hardware, they could not cover all bases and
therefore some problems may yet be unidentified.  

Actually if you think about it Microsoft probably cannot say there is
anything wrong with ANY version of 4.0 as it is BUG free, Bill said
so.  :-) :-)

robt@mummy.agsm.unsw.oz.au (Rob Trevor) (10/10/90)

In article <3093@mrsvr.UUCP> walkerl@mrsvr.UUCP (Larry Walker) writes:
> > In <7406@umd5.umd.edu> pevans@umd5.umd.edu (Peter Evans) writes:
> > |Ditto.  Same problem.  Word seems to go "off the air" usually for good
> > ..
> 
> I've had lockups even with Shield removed. Lockups are only semi-
> reproducible with a given file, so it's nearly impossible to pin it on a 
> ...
>

Well, I have one file that GUARANTEES a lockup (on IIcx, SE, with/without 
inits, etc) if anybody from Microsoft wants it!  :-)  (Its a letterhead 
created by a table with one cell containing about 28K of hidden postscript 
code that generates the university crest.  Works fine--as long as you 
don't scroll backwards into the letterhead part of the letter.  Then your 
in real trouble!)

>  PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, does anybody know what's going on???

Haven't got a clue.  Nobody down here seems to be much interested in these 
sorts of bugs, even when there're completely reproducable.

Rob



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Rob Trevor                                       robt@mummy.agsm.unsw.oz.au
Associate Professor                                    robt@agsm.unsw.oz.au
Australian Graduate School of Management
University of New South Wales
PO Box 1                                            VOICE: +61 (2) 662-0274
Kensington, NSW                                       FAX: +61 (2) 662-2451
AUSTRALIA    2033
 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

geoff@pmafire.UUCP (Geoff Allen) (10/11/90)

jfmjfm@caen.engin.umich.edu (John Mansfield) writes:
>
>Various people have been complaining that Word 4.0 does weird things.
>Well there are 2 upgrades to 4.0, namely 4.0a and 4.0b. 

Hate to break the news to you, but...

I get the same problem with a Mac SE, System 6.0.5, Word 4.0b.

Haven't played with INITs yet; I suppose it's worth a try.

>The  fixes were supposedly for the new machines (when the
>postable and IIci came out), but you might find there were other fixes
>too. 

Among the things worth getting it for:

	If you use ATM with an Imagewriter or DeksWriter, you can
	specify fractional font spacing for better-looking output.

	If the start of a paragragh is at the top of a page, Word now
	ignores the ``space before'' feature of the paragraph, and puts
	it at the top of the page like it should be.  Doesn't work for
	the first page, though. 

Those are the fixes I know about.

-- 
Geoff Allen         \  Computers are useless.  
uunet!pmafire!geoff  \  They can only give you answers.
bigtex!pmafire!geoff  \		-- Pablo Picasso

schar@ssdvx2.mdcbbs.com (brian schar) (10/11/90)

In the course of running Microsoft Word over a period of months and years, it
builds up files called "Word Temp X" (x being an integer) in the System
Folder.  They usually show up as 0K; however, they can be several hundred K
in size.  Why they appear, I don't know.  What they are, I don't know.
However, if more than one or two show up,they can interfere with the normal
functioning of Word 4.0.  That interference can include lockup.

I would suggest taking a look at your System Folder.  If you find any Word Temp
files, trash them immediately and reboot.  That may solve your problem.

-- 
Brian Schar   |  schar@ssdvax.mdcbbs.com
McDonnell Douglas Space Systems Company (the Space Station and Delta guys)
Disclaimer:  Any opinions here are mine, not my employer's.  Any facts are in
the public domain.

carsup@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Fisher Library support) (10/16/90)

In article <1990Oct11.160600.1@ssdvx2.mdcbbs.com?(brian?schar)> schar@ssdvx2.mdcbbs.com (brian schar) writes:
>
>In the course of running Microsoft Word over a period of months and years, it
>builds up files called "Word Temp X" (x being an integer) in the System
>Folder.  They usually show up as 0K; however, they can be several hundred K
>in size.  Why they appear, I don't know.  What they are, I don't know.
>However, if more than one or two show up,they can interfere with the normal
>functioning of Word 4.0.  That interference can include lockup.
>
>I would suggest taking a look at your System Folder.  If you find any Word Temp
>files, trash them immediately and reboot.  That may solve your problem.
>
>-- 
>Brian Schar   |  schar@ssdvax.mdcbbs.com
>McDonnell Douglas Space Systems Company (the Space Station and Delta guys)
>Disclaimer:  Any opinions here are mine, not my employer's.  Any facts are in
>the public domain.

If you only want to zap Word Temp files, try FTPing an INIT called Temperament.
The INIT is written by John Rotenstein and is freeware, actually happiware, 
but you'll know what I mean when you get it.  It should be relegated to Old
directories now that there is a newer version called Temperament2, still free
and adds features such as user configurable files to zap in addition to Word
Temp ones, adds sound at startup if it tickles your fancy, and frequency of
zapping.  Also check out his init/cdev 2.0 which turns cdevs, INITs etc on/off
and to a lesser extent Folder check.  John writes many others.  Educorp has a
disk just for him.  Unfortunately, it holds a lot of older versions instead.
I don't know John personally, tho' he is in Australia.  Send him a postcard if 
you like his stuff.  Hope this is helpful.

**My employers don't understand me, so I guess I'm on my own when I speak out**
Norton Chia		|	I *think* my address is 
Micro Support		|		carsup@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU
*******************************************************************************

walkerl@mrsvr.UUCP (Larry Walker) (10/16/90)

From article <1990Oct16.014700.27160@metro.ucc.su.OZ.AU>, by carsup@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Fisher Library support):
> In article <1990Oct11.160600.1@ssdvx2.mdcbbs.com?(brian?schar)> schar@ssdvx2.mdcbbs.com (brian schar) writes:
>>
>>In the course of running Microsoft Word over a period of months and years, it
>>builds up files called "Word Temp X" (x being an integer) in the System
>>Folder.  They usually show up as 0K; however, they can be several hundred K
>>in size.  Why they appear, I don't know.  What they are, I don't know.
>>However, if more than one or two show up,they can interfere with the normal
>>functioning of Word 4.0.  That interference can include lockup.
>>
>>I would suggest taking a look at your System Folder.  If you find any Word Temp
>>files, trash them immediately and reboot.  That may solve your problem.
>>
>>-- 
>>Brian Schar   |  schar@ssdvax.mdcbbs.com
>>McDonnell Douglas Space Systems Company (the Space Station and Delta guys)
That doesn't seem to do it either. I'm running Temperament with delete-on-
every-boot enabled, and I still get lockups. At Microsoft's suggestion, I've
rebuilt my desktop, moved System and Finder to a new, empty folder (to
eliminate all INITs and CDEVs), booted from a floppy, and reloaded Word
(both V4.0 and V4.00B). No help, still getting lockups...
 
 At this point I'm hoping for a virus! I`ve been running Vaccine, and
 Interferon shows a clean bill of health. I plan to get a copy of
 Disinfectant today and see what that shows. I have had an occasional lockup
 in Red Ryder, but it's an old copy (9.2), so I didn't think much of it.
  












  ... news reader fodder...

derosa@motcid.UUCP (John DeRosa) (10/18/90)

walkerl@mrsvr.UUCP (Larry Walker) writes:
>From article <1990Oct16.014700.27160@metro.ucc.su.OZ.AU>, by carsup@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Fisher Library support):
>> In article <1990Oct11.160600.1@ssdvx2.mdcbbs.com?(brian?schar)> schar@ssdvx2.mdcbbs.com (brian schar) writes:
>>>
>>>In the course of running Microsoft Word over a period of months and years, it
>>>builds up files called "Word Temp X" (x being an integer) in the System
>>>
>>>I would suggest taking a look at your System Folder.  If you find any Word Temp
>>>files, trash them immediately and reboot.  That may solve your problem.
>>>
>>>McDonnell Douglas Space Systems Company (the Space Station and Delta guys)
>That doesn't seem to do it either. I'm running Temperament with delete-on-
>every-boot enabled, and I still get lockups. At Microsoft's suggestion, I've
>rebuilt my desktop, moved System and Finder to a new, empty folder (to
>eliminate all INITs and CDEVs), booted from a floppy, and reloaded Word
>(both V4.0 and V4.00B). No help, still getting lockups...

Two items of interest:

1) The latest version of MS Word is 4.0C.  I did not see anything in
   release notes about this specific problem but it may pay to get this
   update.

2) I had a similar problem with MS Word that was tracked down to a 
   corrupt Word Settings file that resides in the system folder.  About
   once a month I need to trash the file to keep Word up and running.
   Usually I would not get a lockup, rather Word would appear to start
   up then die mid-way through.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=    John DeRosa, Motorola, Inc, Cellular Infrastructure Division           =
=                   e-mail: ...uunet!motcid!derosaj                         =
=                           motcid!derosaj@uunet.uu.net                     =
=                Applelink: N1111                                           =
= I do not hold by employer responsible for any information in this message =
=      nor am I responsible for anything my employer may do or say.         =
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

holey@cs.umn.edu (J. Andrew Holey) (10/18/90)

derosa@motcid.UUCP (John DeRosa) writes:
>1) The latest version of MS Word is 4.0C.  I did not see anything in
>   release notes about this specific problem but it may pay to get this
>   update.

My latest lockup was on version 4.0C.

--Andy Holey
University of Minnesota