c3ar@zaphod.uchicago.edu (Walter C3arlip) (10/13/90)
I am a long-time MacPlus user with a new shiney Mac IIci (with 4Mb of memory). I have been extremely frustrated with the IIci and hope that some IIci guru can help identify my problem(s) and straighten out my system. (1) The IIci seems to crash *constantly*. Often this happens doing nothing more sophisticated than clicking on a window. The system hangs and has to be rebooted. (2) Dispite the 4Mb, I am often unable to run more than one program -- even though I can always run three or four programs on my plus (exactly the same programs as on the ci) with no difficulty. I have expanded the memory allocated for finder. I have not been able to get "heap-fixer" or any other tool to "fix the heap" (whatever that means) and don't understand why that would be necessary on a IIci but not on a plus. The system on the IIci seems to take up a huge amount of memory and I conjecture that it is doing so in such a way that memory is getting fragmented preventing multiple programs from running. Am I missing something? Will my problems be solved if I can only "fix" the heap? Is there some configuration somewhere that I've neglected that's eating up memory and subtly boobytrapping my system causing it to crash? I'd appreciate any advice! Thanks! --Walter _____________________________________________________________________________ Walter Carlip **** c3ar@finite.chi.il.us **** (the "3" is invisible) **** c3ar%finite.chi.il.us@gargoyle.uchicago.edu **** _____________________________________________________________________________
mdc@spt.entity.com (Marty Connor) (10/13/90)
In article <1990Oct13.002237.15313@midway.uchicago.edu> c3ar@zaphod.uchicago.edu (Walter C3arlip) writes: >(1) The IIci seems to crash *constantly*. Often this happens doing nothing >more sophisticated than clicking on a window. The system hangs and has to >be rebooted. Chances are that your heap is much too small. Under multi-finder, choose ABOUT THE FINDER, and look at the System bar graph. About 25% of the bar should be white (on the right side). Less than this can cause problems when you have INITs and when programs do things that use system heap. I had a client with a IIci the other day that had similar problems with the IIci. I don't know if a system configured for a IIci takes more memory than that for a Plus. I would assume so, seeing as it can do color and so would have code to handle some stuff loaded into RAM that a plus would have no use for. With memory prices down to the $43/meg level you might also consider a memory upgrade to 8 meg. Finally, if you just copied a system from another machine, you might want to get 6.0.5 distribution disks from a good dealer and do an install to make sure you have a clean system. And get SAM (from MacConnection) for virus protection. They (Symantec) send postcards about new viruses if you register so you can update your virus protection yourself if you want. Hope some of this helps you and others. Marty "Public Formats for Public Data!" Connor -- Marty Connor, Marty's Computer Workshop, "Specializing in Macintosh Training" 126 Inman Street, Cambridge, MA 02139; (617) 491-6935 mdc@entity.com, or ...{harvard|uunet}!mit-eddie!spt!mdc
ml27192@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (10/13/90)
One reason for ultra-large systems I find often is a Control Panel chache that's set to, oh, 1.5 megs. This wouldn't cause it to crash, though.
nvi@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Charles C. Allen) (10/14/90)
> Chances are that your heap is much too small. Under multi-finder, > choose ABOUT THE FINDER, and look at the System bar graph. About 25% > of the bar should be white (on the right side). OK, I give. I keep hearing this advice, but I never hear any *good* explanations for it, just folklore. I would appreciate an explanation, from someone who *knows* how MultiFinder works, of why the System heap allocation could cause problems like this. I've used II's and IIci's for years and have never "expanded" the heap on any of them. I've also never had mysterious crashes like this. The System bar graph certainly has never been 25% white during all these years. Charles Allen Internet: cca@physics.purdue.edu Department of Physics nvi@mace.cc.purdue.edu Purdue University HEPnet: purdnu::allen, fnal::cca West Lafayette, IN 47907 talknet: 317/494-9776
wilkins@jarthur.Claremont.EDU (Mark Wilkins) (10/14/90)
In article <5770@mace.cc.purdue.edu> nvi@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Charles C. Allen) writes: >> Chances are that your heap is much too small. Under multi-finder, >> choose ABOUT THE FINDER, and look at the System bar graph. About 25% >> of the bar should be white (on the right side). > >OK, I give. I keep hearing this advice, but I never hear any *good* >explanations for it, just folklore. I would appreciate an >explanation, from someone who *knows* how MultiFinder works, of why >the System heap allocation could cause problems like this. The reason you've never had any trouble is that you're running MultiFinder. The System Heap never changes size under the ordinary single Finder, and if you find less that 25% free then you're in trouble. However, in MultiFinder, the System Heap changes size dynamically, and there's NOTHING YOU CAN DO to increase the free space in the system heap short of some difficult hack which wouldn't serve any function anyway. If you're running Finder, you need something to solve the problem. If you're running under MultiFinder and suffer from crashes then something else is your problem. -- Mark Wilkins -- ******* "Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitude!" ********** *-----------------------------------------------------------------------------* * Mark R. Wilkins wilkins@jarthur.claremont.edu {uunet}!jarthur!wilkins * ****** MARK.WILKINS on AppleLink ****** MWilkins on America Online ******
jordan@Apple.COM (Jordan Mattson) (10/16/90)
In article <7409@spt.entity.com> mdc@spt.UUCP (Marty Connor) writes: >In article <1990Oct13.002237.15313@midway.uchicago.edu> c3ar@zaphod.uchicago.edu (Walter C3arlip) writes: > >>(1) The IIci seems to crash *constantly*. Often this happens doing nothing >>more sophisticated than clicking on a window. The system hangs and has to >>be rebooted. > Dear Marty - I am really suprised that you missed this one. This sounds to me like WDEF, which caused a lot of the concerns about the CI and compatibility. >Chances are that your heap is much too small. Under multi-finder, >choose ABOUT THE FINDER, and look at the System bar graph. About 25% >of the bar should be white (on the right side). > >Less than this can cause problems when you have INITs and when >programs do things that use system heap. > >I had a client with a IIci the other day that had similar problems >with the IIci. I don't know if a system configured for a IIci takes >more memory than that for a Plus. I would assume so, seeing as it can >do color and so would have code to handle some stuff loaded into RAM >that a plus would have no use for. > >With memory prices down to the $43/meg level you might also consider a >memory upgrade to 8 meg. > >Finally, if you just copied a system from another machine, you might >want to get 6.0.5 distribution disks from a good dealer and do an >install to make sure you have a clean system. > >And get SAM (from MacConnection) for virus protection. They >(Symantec) send postcards about new viruses if you register so you can >update your virus protection yourself if you want. > >Hope some of this helps you and others. > >Marty "Public Formats for Public Data!" Connor > >-- >Marty Connor, Marty's Computer Workshop, "Specializing in Macintosh Training" >126 Inman Street, Cambridge, MA 02139; (617) 491-6935 >mdc@entity.com, or ...{harvard|uunet}!mit-eddie!spt!mdc -- Jordan Mattson UUCP: jordan@apple.apple.com Apple Computer, Inc. CSNET: jordan@apple.CSNET Development Tools Product Management AppleLink: Mattson1 20400 Stevens Creek Blvd, MS 75-8X Cupertino, CA 95014 408-974-4601 "Joy is the serious business of heaven." C.S. Lewis
c3ar@zaphod.uchicago.edu (Walter C3arlip) (10/19/90)
About a week ago I posted a plea for help: my IIci at work seems to be very flakey constantly crashing and refusing to run multiple applications. I would like to thank the many people who sent me replies -- so many I have not had time to thank each individually. I think I have a satisfactory explanation for the apparent memory shortage: evidently the video board grabs up a bunch of memory and my color backdrop takes up another chunk, and color quickdraw a third, resulting in less useable ram in comparison to my plus. On the other hand, the constant crashes remain unexplained. Common suggestions were: (1) Check for the wdef virus (I did, using Disinfectant 2.2; no virus present); (2) Increase the amount of heap using heap-fixer (this seems to be a hotly debated issue: is this needed for multifinder users or not; someone sent me heapfixer and I increased the heap and still have problems); (3) Get rid of my inits and cdevs (these work fine on my plus, and I can't live without them, but after trying various configurations with many of the left out, I still have crashes) (4) Don't use "questionable" applications (I have had crashes with such applications as hypercard and apple file exchange). I'm still open for suggestions! --Walter _____________________________________________________________________________ Walter Carlip **** c3ar@finite.chi.il.us **** (the "3" is invisible) **** c3ar%finite.chi.il.us@gargoyle.uchicago.edu **** _____________________________________________________________________________