chad@norge.enet.dec.com (Chad Leigh) (06/01/90)
MacWeek has an aricle about the new Macs. Some detail. No SIMMs, 68000 8mz, 9" mono screen, modified 256kb ROMs, no expansion slot in low cost Mac, retail list ~$1500. A modular Mac with one NuBus/Direct-30 configurable slot, uses fx SIMMs, 68030 20mhz. Later a machine with built in 4bit color and others at about $2000. Disclaimer: I read the article -- the above is from my memory. No promises from me or MacWeek. Chad chad@norge.enet.dec.com Vi elsker dette landet! -----------------------------------
goldader@uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Jeff Goldader) (06/02/90)
In article <12101@shlump.nac.dec.com> chad@norge.enet.dec.com () writes: >MacWeek has an aricle about the new Macs. Some detail. No SIMMs, 68000 >8mz, 9" mono screen, modified 256kb ROMs, no expansion slot in low cost >Mac, retail list ~$1500. A modular Mac with one NuBus/Direct-30 >configurable slot, uses fx SIMMs, 68030 20mhz. Later a machine with >built in 4bit color and others at about $2000. Does anyone out there have the article? I'm very curious about the price and availability of the 68030-based box. (the UH library doesn't have a subscription to MacWeek :-( ) Jeff Goldader University of Hawaii goldader@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu Institute for Astronomy "It was the Lone Biker of the Apocalypse..." Disclaimer: They don't know what I say, I don't care what they think, and we're all happy that way.
thwang@cory.Berkeley.EDU (HWANG TSONG-WEN) (06/04/90)
Actually, a MacWEEK a couple weeks ago mentioned 3 new Macs: 1: 8 Mhz 68k w/ 256k ROMS and b/w screen. Memory to be increased using memory card, NOT SIMM (BOO! HISS!). Compact Mac, so looks like SE. How this is an improvement, I dunno. 2: 20 Mhz 68020 with limited color and (I think) 1 slot which can be Processor Direct Slot or NuBus. 3: color Mac II with Apple II emulator board, board to be available in the spring. This info is admittedly from memory since I don't have the MacWEEK at hand. 1: is pretty accurate, though, as well as the Apple II emulator board. John Yen csdq122@emx.cc.utexas.edu
philip@Kermit.Stanford.EDU (Philip Machanick) (06/04/90)
In article <25411@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, thwang@cory.Berkeley.EDU (HWANG TSONG-WEN) writes: > Actually, a MacWEEK a couple weeks ago mentioned 3 new Macs: > > 1: 8 Mhz 68k w/ 256k ROMS and b/w screen. Memory to be increased > using memory card, NOT SIMM (BOO! HISS!). Compact Mac, so looks > like SE. How this is an improvement, I dunno. Well, I agree. And as long as there is no low-cost alternative to the 68030, Apple is limited to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, as far as I'm concerned. What happened to the rumour (?) that Motorola were bringing out a low-cost processor called the 68025? Having a PMMU on board doesn't matter yet, but if Apple ever gets round to doing a REAL virtual memory system, which avoids the current multi- Finder fragmentation and does protection... > 2: 20 Mhz 68020 with limited color and (I think) 1 slot which can > be Processor Direct Slot or NuBus. Not yet another slot not compatible with anything else? Just in case someone thinks this is Apple bashing, it's not - it's rumour bashing. Philip Machanick philip@pescadero.stanford.edu
userDAR@mts.ucs.UAlberta.CA (David Ross) (06/07/90)
In article <25411@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, thwang@cory.Berkeley.EDU (HWANG TSONG-WEN) writes: >Actually, a MacWEEK a couple weeks ago mentioned 3 new Macs: > I've got the May 22 article here. Just to make it clear, I have no idea if these were actually announced by Apple. My impression was that these were basically substantiated rumours brought to you by MacLEAK. I could be wrong (I don't have the Feb 20 issue which first announced it). In either case, the first new Macs won't be out until October. >1: 8 Mhz 68k w/ 256k ROMS and b/w screen. Memory to be increased >using memory card, NOT SIMM (BOO! HISS!). Compact Mac, so looks >like SE. How this is an improvement, I dunno. > This is basically correct. It will also have a FDHD. Only 1 Meg of RAM to start, upgradable to 4. I'd have to agree - I don't know how this is an improvement. However, if they make it cheap enough... (MacLEAK says less than $1500 US retail - looks like an SE, priced like a Plus?) >2: 20 Mhz 68020 with limited color and (I think) 1 slot which can >be Processor Direct Slot or NuBus. > This model supposedly not out till January and is targeted at the education market. It will come in an Apple IIGS case and include 1MB RAM and 4-bit colour. Priced < $2000. No mention of actual 68020 speed. >3: color Mac II with Apple II emulator board, board to be available >in the spring. > This one you've got a bit confused. There is supposed to be a 20MHz 68030 Mac II in an Apple IIGS case with 8-bit colour (same as ci). You've got the slot correct though - 1 slot which can be PDS or NuBus. Could be named Mac IIsi (slow with integrated video). Will use 512K ROM and 64-pin SIMMS like fx. New sound chip. Price with colour monitor, 2MB RAM, 40Meg HD, $3000 <> $4000. The Apple II emulator board is not supposed to be available until spring and is supposed to work with #2, not necessarily #3. >This info is admittedly from memory since I don't have the MacWEEK >at hand. 1: is pretty accurate, though, as well as the Apple II >emulator board. > >John Yen csdq122@emx.cc.utexas.edu No mention of hard disk in #1. That disappointed me. As a consultant I see a lot of people buying Mac Plus' with no hard disks and then proceeding to get very frustrated with their machine. I will not recommend any microcomputer (IBM or Mac) without a hard disk. With System 7.0 on the way, it seems to me that even the lowest low-end Mac should have a hard disk (and probably 2 Meg RAM!). Oh well. ---- David A. Ross, Programmer/Analyst | Internet: david_ross@mts.ucs.UAlberta.CA University Computing Systems | Bitnet: userdar@ualtamts.BITNET 352 Gen Serv Bldg, Univ of Alberta | Uucp: ..!alberta!uqv-mts!david_ross Edmonton, Alberta, Can. T6G 2H1 | Phone: 1-403-492-2462
philip@Pescadero.Stanford.EDU (Philip Machanick) (06/08/90)
[lots of MacWeak rumours about various "new" models, including Apple II compatibility, etc.] It occurs to me that Apple's biggest problem is that they've drowned the Mac's original simplicity in a whole lot of unneccessary variations. Consider (I hope this is all right...): o where screen memory is put - part of main RAM (SE and Plus) - part of main RAM (only slightly different) or NuBus card (IIci) - special video RAM (SE/30) - NuBus card or special slot (IIfx) - NuBus card (IIcx, IIx) o slots - none (Plus) - NuBus (all II models) - special slot 1 (SE) - special slot 2 (SE/30) - special slot 3 (IIfx) o keyboard / mouse - old Mac (Plus) - adb (all others) What I believe is called for at this point is 2 things: collapsing as many of these variations as possible into 1 consistent standard, and broadly lowering the price of the range to make it more realistic by the standards of PCs and low-end workstations. Maybe NuBus isn't the best solution for some purposes, but SOME standard ought to be chosen for ALL slots (even if it may be implemented with varying degrees of performance on some models). The way memory is allocated for screens could also be done in a consistent way (e.g., assume NuBus is the standard for all machines: screen memory which is physically allocated somewhere else could be implemented as a virtual NuBus card). Of course, "well-behaved" applications don't need to worry about this; I'm thinking more in terms of the difficulty of writing and maintaining system software (where's System 7?), as well as the cost of designing and supporting multiple cards for screens and other add-ons. Never mind the detail - the point is Apple's range is becoming a mess, and yet another round of new models (with presumably the Plus disappearing and everything else staying the same) is no solution. Philip Machanick philip@pescadero.stanford.edu
jdsb@occrsh.ATT.COM (John_Babcock) (06/08/90)
This message is empty.
tjones%peruvian.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Ray Jones) (07/04/90)
Don't expect the new low-cost Macs before the late fall. Actually they probably will not be available until the end of the year. The new Macs should be released with system 7.0, and concurrently with the new Apple II. Probably all in January... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Email: tjones@hell.utah.edu Login Name: Thouis Jones In Real Life: tjones My opinions are my own, but then again, no one else wants them.
hofbauer@csri.toronto.edu (John Hofbauer) (10/09/90)
Just picked up the Oct. 15 issue of BusinessWeek magazine which has a cover story on Apple Computer. They say the following about the new Macs: Mac Classic: 68000 1 meg., 1 floppy $999 2 meg., floppy and hard disk $1499 available October 15 Mac LC: 68020 2 meg., floppy, hard disk + color monitor $3098 available Oct. 15 Mac IIsi: 68030 2 meg., floppy, 80 meg. hard disk $3769 available January 1991 All prices are list and in US dollars. The Classic replaces the Plus and SE. The LC also has one expansion slot and is described as being in a "pizza-box" package. It is intended to go up against the IBM PS/2 model 55SX. The IIsi is intended to displace the SE/30 which, for now, gets a big price cut.
jay@ut-emx.uucp (Jay Boisseau) (10/09/90)
In article <1990Oct8.221503.24219@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu>, hofbauer@csri.toronto.edu (John Hofbauer) writes: (description of new macs deleted) > All prices are list and in US dollars. The Classic replaces the Plus and SE. > The LC also has one expansion slot and is described as being in a "pizza-box" > package. It is intended to go up against the IBM PS/2 model 55SX. The IIsi > is intended to displace the SE/30 which, for now, gets a big price cut. I purchased a SE relatively recently. Inoticed the upgrade to a SE/30 was about $1400 (academic price, UT-Austin). Is there any word from Apple on whether or not the upgrade price will come down now that SEs are being discontinued? They could cut that price in half and still make a profit, and cutting it AFTER they discontinue the SE wouldn't hurt SE/30 sales (I thought maybe they kept it high so that people--like me--wouldn't just buy an SE and an upgrade instead of an SE/30). Jay Boisseau jay@emx.utexas.edu
jk3t+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jonathan King) (10/09/90)
hofbauer@csri.toronto.edu (John Hofbauer) writes: > Just picked up the Oct. 15 issue of BusinessWeek magazine which has > a cover story on Apple Computer. They say the following about the > new Macs: > > [stuff about Mac Classic deleted] > Mac LC: 68020 > 2 meg., floppy, > hard disk + color monitor $3098 available Oct. 15 > > Mac IIsi: 68030 > 2 meg., floppy, > 80 meg. hard disk $3769 available January 1991 Is there any indication that the Mac IILC will have a floating point chip, or at least room for one? What about room for a 68551? jking
es2j+@andrew.cmu.edu (Edward John Sabol) (10/10/90)
>Is there any indication that the Mac IILC will have a floating point >chip, or at least room for one? What about room for a 68551? According to MacWEEK, no, there will be no floating point chip. I don't know if it will have room for a PMMU or not... +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+ | Edward J. Sabol | Arpa: es2j+@andrew.cmu.edu | | Carnegie Mellon University | Bitnet: R746ES2J@CMCCVB | +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+ | "The streets that Balboa walked were his own private ocean and Balboa | | was drowning." - August Wilson | +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+
ml27192@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (10/10/90)
The LC has no 881 or PMU; I don't know if it can accept any. This will cause problems with programs that assume 020=881. Apple just a few months ago began warning developers about that. Usefull.
gillies@m.cs.uiuc.edu (10/10/90)
Re: No FPU or 68851 in new 68020 mac. Buy one of these, wait 9 months, then (hopefully) get a 68040 upgrade for this machine. Not only will the machine faster than a IIfx, it will have a built-in (faster) FPU and MMU. That should solve all your problems!
jwh@wgate.UUCP (Joe Hughes) (10/10/90)
In article <1990Oct8.221503.24219@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu>, hofbauer@csri.toronto.edu (John Hofbauer) writes:
-> Just picked up the Oct. 15 issue of BusinessWeek magazine which has
-> a cover story on Apple Computer. They say the following about the
-> new Macs:
->
-> Mac Classic: 68000
-> 1 meg., 1 floppy $999
-> 2 meg., floppy
-> and hard disk $1499 available October 15
->
-> Mac LC: 68020
-> 2 meg., floppy,
-> hard disk + color monitor $3098 available Oct. 15
->
-> Mac IIsi: 68030
-> 2 meg., floppy,
-> 80 meg. hard disk $3769 available January 1991
->
Does the article go into further detail? I was wondering how many slots the
Mac IIsi will have and what is its clock speed? Thanks for the info.
Joe Hughes
--
Joe Hughes Wandel & Goltermann Technologies, Inc.
Home (919) 469-3851 1030 Swabia Court
Work (919) 941-5730 Research Triangle Park
uunet.uu.net!wgate.com!jwh North Carolina 27709-3585rob@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Robert K Shull) (10/11/90)
In article <143400020@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> ml27192@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: >This will cause problems with programs that assume 020=881. >Apple just a few months ago began warning developers about that. Usefull. This should be fun. We'll get another chance to see which companies bothered to follow the rules (or think ahead). Robert -- Robert K. Shull rob@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu chinet!uokmax!rob
russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto) (10/11/90)
In article <70400068@m.cs.uiuc.edu> gillies@m.cs.uiuc.edu writes: > >Re: No FPU or 68851 in new 68020 mac. > >Buy one of these, wait 9 months, then (hopefully) get a 68040 upgrade >for this machine. Not only will the machine faster than a IIfx, it >will have a built-in (faster) FPU and MMU. That should solve all your >problems! Now why would Apple offer such a superduper upgrade for their low end machines? (I'm hoping they have a II/IIx--> 040 upgrade) -- Matthew T. Russotto russotto@eng.umd.edu russotto@wam.umd.edu .sig under construction, like the rest of this campus.
philip@pescadero.Stanford.EDU (Philip Machanick) (10/11/90)
In article <1990Oct10.203313.2806@eng.umd.edu>, russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto) writes: |> In article <70400068@m.cs.uiuc.edu> gillies@m.cs.uiuc.edu writes: |> > |> >Re: No FPU or 68851 in new 68020 mac. |> > |> >Buy one of these, wait 9 months, then (hopefully) get a 68040 upgrade |> >for this machine. Not only will the machine faster than a IIfx, it |> >will have a built-in (faster) FPU and MMU. That should solve all your |> >problems! |> |> Now why would Apple offer such a superduper upgrade for their low end machines? |> (I'm hoping they have a II/IIx--> 040 upgrade) Who said "Apple"? What about "third party"? One advantage of all the confusing new variations (like has 68020 but no FPU) is developers will have to check for these parts individually - should be good news for accelerator makers. -- Philip Machanick philip@pescadero.stanford.edu
dplatt@coherent.com (Dave Platt) (10/13/90)
In article <143400020@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> ml27192@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes: > > The LC has no 881 or PMU; I don't know if it can accept any. > > This will cause problems with programs that assume 020=881. > Apple just a few months ago began warning developers about that. Usefull. Apple has been saying "Test for the features you really want to use, and don't assume that Feature A implies Feature B" for a long time. I remember "Don't assume that machines whose type is >= MacII have a 68020, FPU, or color" several years ago. Apple has been providing developers with decent ways to check for features (e.g. SysEnvirons and more recently Gestalt) since System 4.1, I think. Apple did _reiterate_ this warning (specifically, 68020 !-> 68881) a few months ago... but they've been warning us about the risk of making undue assumptions about hardware configurations ever since Inside Mac I was first published. I don't have a lot of sympathy for developers who can't be bothered to call SysEnvirons and check the hasFPU bit.
steph@kona.cs.ucla.edu (Stephen Sakamoto) (10/19/90)
Well here are the UCLA prices. Mac Classsic $799 2/40 $1199 Mac si 2/40 $2499 5/80 $2999 adaptor card $189 12" color monitor $399 They were blowing out MacPlusses for $499. The Mac Classics are manufactured in Singapore. Apparently the same line as the SE30s. That may be the cause of the SE30 shortage. My personnel hightlight of the rollout in Los Angeles was watching the filming of "Murder She Wrote" at the Biltmore. Even saw Angela Lansbery and Arthur Hill. Stephen Sakamoto UCLA Computer Science Department "A classsic, just like the Grateful Dead" -Apple Rollout 10/15/90, Drake University