mlyons@pro-truckstop.cts.com (Handles, SysOp) (10/20/90)
Attention all InterNet users; Sour Grapes. ** FLAME ON ** I'm a ProLine SysOp which can interface with UNIX computers and have asked our local University, (USF) University of South Florida, to allow me to pull some feeds from them. At first I was told that I could, then they put in a new computer, and a change of staff. With that I was told in a harsh way, NO!. Why? I was told its a conflict of interest, What? How? These schools of so called higher learning think that a lowly Apple IIGS can't possibly use any feeds? or receive them from their computer? I only wanted Apple II, Macintosh and a few UNIX feeds. (BTW: My system is totally free, except for donations). I was told that other systems get the feeds because they donate moneys and equipment to this university, so we give them access to the feeds. I was told there so called super computer can't be bothered with feeds to a small system for free. I thought the internet was free. I also know that it cost them money to use there computer and that they give the feeds to other systems, so what is the difference? So what if other small local systems would like to recieve the feeds too. A couple of small system could like a IBM, Amaga etc, sysops could use the local feeds too. Just one system per computer type or say 5 local systems could call and distribute them to the other sites that want them locally. So as a show of support for my cause, call USF TECH support, voice 813/974 -3307 or fax 813/974-3149 or thu this group, E-mail malek@sol.usf.edu . ** FLAME OFF ** Bitter; Any Comments? America OnLine : Handles | Remember Viet Nam? Remember our MIAs! INET: mlyons@pro-truckstop.cts.com | Apple's don't die, they have seeds... ProLine: I love this software. | Many a blunt word has a sharp edge...
dhoyt@vx.acs.umn.edu (10/21/90)
In article <5164@crash.cts.com>, mlyons@pro-truckstop.cts.com (Handles, SysOp) writes... > I thought the internet was free. And you though the interstate highway system is free too? Internet is paid for entirely by member connection charges, most of which are covered by federal grants. Don't get me wrong, I think that universal internet access is a nice thing to have. It is as useful the telephone net in many ways, and for me more useful than the interstate highway system. But as with everything else, it ain't free. david | dhoyt@vx.acsumn.edu | dhoyt@umnacvx.bitnet
robin@csuchico.edu (Robin Goldstone) (10/21/90)
In article <5164@crash.cts.com> mlyons@pro-truckstop.cts.com (Handles, SysOp) writes: > >I'm a ProLine SysOp which can interface with UNIX computers and have >asked our local University, (USF) University of South Florida, to allow >me to pull some feeds from them. At first I was told that I could, >then they put in a new computer, and a change of staff. With that I >was told in a harsh way, NO!. > > [stuff deleted...] > >[...] I thought the internet was free. > > [mores stuff deleted] I am confused by your story - were you going to be connecting to their system via telephone? Were you going to pay for the phone bill? If so, I don't think your request is unreasonable. Unless of course there are other factors that I am not aware of - and I am sure there are. We only have your side of the story. Regarding your comment "I thought the internet was free" I don't think it is! The Internet provides a forum for free exchange of information (free as in "freedom of speech", "freedom of the press") but it is "free" in a monitary sense. There are costs associated with operation of the computers as well as communications costs. These costs are absorbed by all the nodes in the network, so it is deceiving. But I am fairly certain that the costs of communicating over the Internet are enormous! So don't be under the misconception that the Internet is some free service that you are entitled to simply because you are a member of society. Robin Goldstone, Systems Software Specialist California State University, Chico Computing Services robin@csuchico.edu
rgm@OCF.berkeley.edu (Rob Menke) (10/21/90)
In article <5164@crash.cts.com> mlyons@pro-truckstop.cts.com (Handles, SysOp) writes: I thought the internet was free. This message will cost the net hundreds of thousands of dollars. Are you sure you wish to post [n]? Obviously, the man has never used 'Pnews'... -- "Gadget, love, do ya always carry a | Robert Menke glass cutter?" | rgm@OCF.berkeley.edu "No-- only when I want to cut glass." | ...!ucbvax!OCF!rgm
gillies@m.cs.uiuc.edu (10/22/90)
> I am confused by your story - were you going to be connecting to their > system via telephone? Were you going to pay for the phone bill? What is the cost of sending this message over the internet? Assume all computers have 9600 baud (1000 chars/second) modems, and that this message is 1000 characters. Then it costs 1 second of dialup time to transmit this message (subtracting some time for compression; adding some back for control information). But there are over 7 THOUSAND computers on the internet; the total cost could be as high as 7000 seconds of long-distance telephone time, which is approx. 100 minutes, or as much as $15 borne, in part, by everyone on the internet. Many of the computers are connected by dedicated lines in the DARPA internet, but these lines can cost even more money. Unless you were willing to forward their newsfeed to a remote computer, thereby reducing *their* long distance phone bill, why should they waste their own CPU cycles to subsidize your local BBS for nothing? Don W. Gillies, Dept. of Computer Science, University of Illinois 1304 W. Springfield, Urbana, Ill 61801 ARPA: gillies@cs.uiuc.edu UUCP: {uunet,harvard}!uiucdcs!gillies
dce@smsc.sony.com (David Elliott) (10/22/90)
In article <5164@crash.cts.com> mlyons@pro-truckstop.cts.com (Handles, SysOp) writes: >I was told that other systems get the feeds because they donate moneys >and equipment to this university, so we give them access to the feeds. I >was told there so called super computer can't be bothered with feeds to >a small system for free. I thought the internet was free. The internet isn't free (we paid something like $50K for our first year of service, including all equipment). It sounds to me, though, that you asked for a pretty standard UUCP feed from a local site (the fact that they are on the internet isn't really that relevant) and their policy changes caused them to back out. That's thier right. On the other hand, it sounds to me like just unfriendly treatment. When someone asks us for a UUCP feed, we don't ask for anything except that the person not abuse the feed (our UUCP machine is a 68020 that is also used as a news and /usr/local server), and we request that the connection be made via Telebit modem. Otherwise, it's all free and subject to the availability of my time (for now -- please don't everyone in this area code ask for a feed). I found this to be true in general (at least in the Bay Area).