n67786@lehtori.tut.fi (Nieminen Tero) (10/17/90)
The idea of sideways scrolling menubar is one of the best I've seen lately. The hanging of such a thing wouldn't be any bigger problem than hanging of a scrolling menu (never happened to me so far). Maybe this is one of the thing Apple should have thought of (anyone on Apple listening). It isn't that uncommon to run out of menubar space these days, at least for those of us using the traditional 9 inch monitor (or those going to use the new 12 inch ones!). Normally all programs can include their own menus into menubar, no swet, but add up MacroMaker and perhaps QuickMail or anything similar and it's time for a bigger monitor. If you don't believe this try PageMaker forinstance, you'll see. I have recently ran into this same problem when using MPW with several "user defined" menus (Directory, Build, Lookup, and then two of my own, both full-screen-legtht) and I can't see MacroMaker menu anymore. Actually I've solved my problem, but it's not generally applicable (well maybe...), but then again you should have some extra space for DA's for example. If anyone on Apple sees this thread, I'd like to hear their comment on it! -- Tero Nieminen Tampere University of Technology n67786@lehtori.tut.fi Tampere, Finland, Europe
BRL102@psuvm.psu.edu (Ben Liblit) (10/17/90)
Rare though it is, I have occasionally seen so many items in the menu bar that
they run straight off the right edge of the screen. Menu bar real estate taken
up by goodies such as SuperClock add to the problem.
So ... how about sideways scrolling menu bars? I'm thinking of the same sort
of thing as a vertically scrolling menu, but left-right. Like a scrolling
menu, a scrolling menu bar would behave normally unless there were too many
items to fit across the screen. I suppose little arrows in the upper corners
would let the user know that there are more items off in a given direction.
I am in no way, shape, or form a Macintosh programmer, so I really don't know
how goofy my suggestion might be. Would anyone who does care to comment?
Ben Liblit
BRL102 @ psuvm.bitnet -- BRL102 @ psuvm.psu.edu
"Fais que tes reves soient plus longs que la nuit."6600patb@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Pat Breitenbach) (10/17/90)
In article <90289.160406BRL102@psuvm.psu.edu> BRL102@psuvm.psu.edu (Ben Liblit) writes: >Rare though it is, I have occasionally seen so many items in the menu bar that >they run straight off the right edge of the screen. Menu bar real estate taken >up by goodies such as SuperClock add to the problem. >So ... how about sideways scrolling menu bars? I'm thinking of the same sort >of thing as a vertically scrolling menu, but left-right. Like a scrolling >menu, a scrolling menu bar would behave normally unless there were too many >items to fit across the screen. I suppose little arrows in the upper corners >would let the user know that there are more items off in a given direction. >I am in no way, shape, or form a Macintosh programmer, so I really don't know >how goofy my suggestion might be. Would anyone who does care to comment? > Ben Liblit At the very least, I think developers ought to see if they could shorten some of their manu items (the actual words that appear across the top). I would imagine that Apple would not support a scrolling menu bar unless the Apple, File, and Edit menus never moved. And even then, I doubt it. -Patrick Internet: 6600patb@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu
francis@daisy.uchicago.edu (Francis Stracke) (10/17/90)
In article <90289.160406BRL102@psuvm.psu.edu> BRL102@psuvm.psu.edu (Ben Liblit) writes: >Rare though it is, I have occasionally seen so many items in the menu bar that >they run straight off the right edge of the screen. Menu bar real estate taken >up by goodies such as SuperClock add to the problem. So don't run SuperClock. It's evil. > >So ... how about sideways scrolling menu bars? I'm thinking of the same sort >of thing as a vertically scrolling menu, but left-right. Like a scrolling >menu, a scrolling menu bar would behave normally unless there were too many >items to fit across the screen. I suppose little arrows in the upper corners >would let the user know that there are more items off in a given direction. > Could be done with an MBDF resource. Sounds like something we'd want to be extremely careful with. What if it hangs, & you can't do anything from the menus? Anybody in c.s.m.programmer ever do anything like this? | Francis Stracke | My opinions are my own. I don't steal them.| | Department of Mathematics |=============================================| | University of Chicago | A mathematician is a professional | | francis@zaphod.uchicago.edu | schizophrenic.--Me. |
gillies@m.cs.uiuc.edu (10/17/90)
It would be so much simpler to just write an INIT to provide 2 lines of menu items, rather than just 1.
ollef@sics.se (Olle Furberg) (10/17/90)
There is an init called scrollmenubar that gives you exactly what you want. I think I have it on a floppy somewhere here.
siegman@sierra.STANFORD.EDU (siegman) (10/17/90)
It's not a menu bar, but MicroPhone II has something like this in a sideways scrollable set of command buttons that run across the bottom of the window. They only become scrollable when there are too many buttons to fit inthe available width of the window.
vd09+@andrew.cmu.edu (Vincent M. Del Vecchio) (10/17/90)
Well, for all of you people hypothesizing about sideways scrolling menu bars, it has basically already been implemented for Dave McWherter's Vantage/McSink. Since he put the menu bar inside the window, and the window is resizable, the menu bar had to scroll. Check it out. It's not too bad. I also agree that developers should try as hard as possible to cut down the names so that they will squeeze in without scrolling. +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Vincent Del Vecchio \ #include <stddisclaimer.h> | | Box 4834 \ #include <stdquote.h> | | 5125 Margaret Morrison St.\ BITNET: vd09+%andrew@cmuccvma.bitnet | | Pittsburgh, PA 15213 \ UUCP: harvard!andrew.cmu.edu!vd09 | | (412) 268-4441 \ Internet: vd09+@andrew.cmu.edu | +-------------------------------------------------------------------+
niko@du248-16.cc.iastate.edu (Schuessler Nikolaus E) (10/17/90)
-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Niko Schuessler "On a two semester mission to engineer where niko@iastate.edu no-one has engineered before.... :-) " ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
vakselro@jarthur.Claremont.EDU (Vadim Josh Akselrod) (10/18/90)
I've seen an init called ScrollMBar I believe that does exactly the kind of scrolling of the menu bar that you're talking about. I believe it's on Sumex (haven't checked lately) and it was posted about a year and half back. If you have trouble finding it, write me E-mail and I'll try to send it to you binhexed. Cheers, -Josh (vakselro@jarthur.claremont.edu)
philip@pescadero.Stanford.EDU (Philip Machanick) (10/18/90)
In article <70400076@m.cs.uiuc.edu>, gillies@m.cs.uiuc.edu writes: |> |> It would be so much simpler to just write an INIT to provide 2 lines of |> menu items, rather than just 1. Don't Apple people always claim that the reason they have a menu bar arranged as it is at the top of the screen is you can hit it fast without having to aim vertically? If you have 2 lines of menus, the advantage is is gone. How about running an extra _column_ of menubar down the right side of the screen: File Edit menu1 menu2 menu3 m e n u 4 (with the option of doing the writing horizontally if the screen is wide enough) -- Philip Machanick philip@pescadero.stanford.edu
vd09+@andrew.cmu.edu (Vincent M. Del Vecchio) (10/19/90)
> Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.mac.misc: 17-Oct-90 Re: idea -- sideways > scroll.. Philip Machanick@pescade (794) > How > about running an extra _column_ of menubar down the right side of the screen: > File Edit menu1 menu2 menu3 > m > e > n > u > 4 > (with the option of doing the writing horizontally if the screen is wide > enough) Well, for that matter, why don't we just put menu bars on all 4 sides of the screen? :-) +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Vincent Del Vecchio \ #include <stddisclaimer.h> | | Box 4834 \ #include <stdquote.h> | | 5125 Margaret Morrison St.\ BITNET: vd09+%andrew@cmuccvma.bitnet | | Pittsburgh, PA 15213 \ UUCP: harvard!andrew.cmu.edu!vd09 | | (412) 268-4441 \ Internet: vd09+@andrew.cmu.edu | +-------------------------------------------------------------------+
tecot@momenta (Ed Tecot) (10/24/90)
n67786@lehtori.tut.fi (Nieminen Tero) writes: >The idea of sideways scrolling menubar is one of the best I've seen >lately. The hanging of such a thing wouldn't be any bigger problem >than hanging of a scrolling menu (never happened to me so far). Maybe >this is one of the thing Apple should have thought of (anyone on Apple >listening). This idea was tested and discarded at Apple in late 1987. What we found was that the menu bar as it exists has two major benefits: a) All menu titles are always visible. b) Users can rely on kinetic memory to find the proper menu. We found that although scrolling menu bars permit more menus; they completely trash the two benefits above. In addition, we found that although hierchical menus are in general a bad idea; they were a better solution for this problem. _emt
hadjiyia@cat46.cs.wisc.edu (Simos Hadjiyiannis) (10/26/90)
In article <gb7UURy00awDQ97190@andrew.cmu.edu> vd09+@andrew.cmu.edu (Vincent M. Del Vecchio) writes: >> Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.mac.misc: 17-Oct-90 Re: idea -- sideways >> scroll.. Philip Machanick@pescade (794) >> How >> about running an extra _column_ of menubar down the right side of the screen: >> (with the option of doing the writing horizontally if the screen is wide >> enough) >Well, for that matter, why don't we just put menu bars on all 4 sides of >the screen? :-) I'm amazed no one has mentioned Hierachical Menus yet. It seems to me that theyobviate the need for any kind of extended menu bar. Simos Hadjiyiannis