pfr654@csc.anu.oz.au (12/05/90)
It seems that the reason that Apple is making such large sums of money nowadays is that us foreigners (from Finland, New Zealand, Japan and Australia) are paying about twice as much for the same equipment as are the US customers. Since we account for about 1/2 of the number of boxes sold, then we must account for more than 1/2 of the profit margin. I would like to hear someone admit that the price has little to do with the cost of production and shipping, and much more to do with the market - the US market is much more competitive, so to sell ANYTHING, they have to charge less. Other countries, for example, do not have the NeXT - and if we do get it, the pricing will no doubt follow all of the other big computer companies' policies. *====*===*===*===*===*===*===*===*===*===*===*===*===*===*===*===* Phil Ryan ANU Department of Physics and Theoretical Physics Canberra, Australia pfr654@csc.anu.oz.au phone:(61 6) 249 4678 fax:(61 6) 249 0741
gft_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu (12/05/90)
----- In article <1990Dec5.094856.3679@csc.anu.oz.au>, pfr654@csc.anu.oz.au writes... > >It seems that the reason that Apple is making such large sums of money >nowadays is that us foreigners (from Finland, New Zealand, Japan and >Australia) are paying about twice as much for the same equipment as >are the US customers. Since we account for about 1/2 of the number of boxes >sold, then we must account for more than 1/2 of the profit margin. Not necessarily. For instance, Apple is an American company and much of its production is thus oriented towards English. There is probably some non-zero amount of money involved in translating sofware, manuals, etc. into French, Swiss French, German, Swiss German, Italian, Spanish, Icelandic, Hebrew, Japanese, Arabic, Finnish, Swedish, Norwegian, Turkish, Dutch, Faerose (Faeroese???), etc. (BTW there is System Software localized to each of the above, and possibly more). This is a trivial example and of course doesn't account for any large differential between US and foreign prices, but is indicative that there might possibly be other -- as yet unnamed -- issues involved besides greed. Or maybe not. Robert ============================================================================ = gft_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu * generic disclaimer: * "It's more fun to = = * all my opinions are * compute" = = * mine * -Kraftwerk = ============================================================================
philip@pescadero.Stanford.EDU (Philip Machanick) (12/05/90)
In article <1990Dec5.094856.3679@csc.anu.oz.au>, pfr654@csc.anu.oz.au writes: |> I would like to hear someone admit that the price has little to do with the |> cost of production and shipping, and much more to do with the market - the |> US market is much more competitive, so to sell ANYTHING, they have to |> charge less. How about starting a political campaign against international price fixing? The following changes might help: 1. remove import duties - or at least red tape so private individuals can import as easily as big companies 2. make it illegal to refuse service / support to anyone who imports through "unofficial" channels (preferably, make the concept of sole distributor/sole importer illegal as a monopolistic practice) I would also consider a campaign against software manufacturers who attempt to enforce international marketing restrictions by tricks like checking the nationality of the keyboard / system software before launching. Maybe a bit of activism is called for. After all, think how much fun it will be to watch your local distributor frantically drop prices to compete with US-based mail order / grey market distributors. -- Philip Machanick philip@pescadero.stanford.edu
hv@uwasa.fi (Harri Valkama LAKE) (12/05/90)
In article <1990Dec5.002230.13579@midway.uchicago.edu> gft_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu writes: >----- >In article <1990Dec5.094856.3679@csc.anu.oz.au>, pfr654@csc.anu.oz.au writes... >Not necessarily. For instance, Apple is an American company and much of its >production is thus oriented towards English. There is probably some non-zero >amount of money involved in translating sofware, manuals, etc. into French, >Swiss French, German, Swiss German, Italian, Spanish, Icelandic, Hebrew, >Japanese, Arabic, Finnish, Swedish, Norwegian, Turkish, Dutch, Faerose >(Faeroese???), etc. (BTW there is System Software localized to each of the >above, and possibly more). No, no, no. APDA sells these System disks for $35 if I remember correct. So it can't help a thing. BTW, I don't want localized system software. All I need is that I can use the same character sets that are used here in Finland. This is partly because they are translated so glumsy. -- == Harri Valkama, University of Vaasa, Finland ================================ P.O. Box 700, 65101 VAASA, Finland (tel:+358 61 248426 fax:+358 61 248465) hv@uwasa.fi hv@nic.funet.fi hkv@flame.uwasa.fi harri.valkama@wmac00.uwasa.fi Moderating at chyde.uwasa.fi (128.214.12.3) & nic.funet.fi (128.214.6.100)
Bruce.Hoult@bbs.actrix.gen.nz (12/05/90)
In article <1990Dec5.002230.13579@midway.uchicago.edu> gft_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu writes: > Not necessarily. For instance, Apple is an American company and much of its > production is thus oriented towards English. There is probably some non-zero > amount of money involved in translating sofware, manuals, etc. into French, > Swiss French, German, Swiss German, Italian, Spanish, Icelandic, Hebrew, > Japanese, Arabic, Finnish, Swedish, Norwegian, Turkish, Dutch, Faerose > (Faeroese???), etc. (BTW there is System Software localized to each of the > above, and possibly more). I'm sure this has _some_ effect on those non-english speaking countries, but can hardly be a major factor in the prices in New Zealand, Australia, and Great Britain. -- Bruce.Hoult@bbs.actrix.gen.nz Twisted pair: +64 4 772 116 BIX: brucehoult Last Resort: PO Box 4145 Wellington, NZ
MBDZM@ROHVM1.BITNET (12/06/90)
You are forgetting import duties and local sales taxes. I am not familiar with the taxes in OZ, but I have investigated the price differences between the U.S. and the U.K. In the U.K.: There is an import duty on electronic equipment manufactured outside the U.K. This helps keep Sir Clive in business. It also fosters a market that will buy Brittish equipment, most of which is better designed and built than the Japanese, Korean, and Tiwanese stuff. But with out the duty, no one would buy the stuff as it is too expensive. The quantities made are too small to charge less. I beleive that the duty is one half the retail cost of the item. (U.K. posters, help please.) There is also a Value Added Tax (Sales tax) of about 15 percent. The VAT varies depending on where you are (England, Scotland, Channel Islands, Northern Irelan d). So in order to sell a MAC Classic that lists for $1500 (US), (2meg,40meg HD) Apple needs to ask about about 70% more (The VAT is on the after duty price), just to break even. (about $2500 US or 1250-1500 Pounds Sterling) Add in the incremental costs, such as a 220V power supply, Brittish certificati on (equivalent to U.L. and F.C.C) changes for national languages and keyboards, cost of having a sales and support office overseas, etc, the price is quite reasonable. There is no (or minimal) duty in the U.S. on Japanese, Tiwanese, or Korean manufactured electronics. The sales tax is added after the price and is Anywhere from zero to 8 (in NY city) percent. Here in Philly it's 6%. Now you know why foreign tourists in the U.S. stock up on VCRs, computers, Cameras, etc. It easier and cheaper to buy a PAL VCR in New York than London, but there are no precorded tapes for sale or signals to record. Geoff Mendelson (uunet!gsm001!gsm)
gft_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu (12/07/90)
------ In article <1990Dec5.065209.17114@uwasa.fi>, hv@uwasa.fi (Harri Valkama LAKE) writes... >In article <1990Dec5.002230.13579@midway.uchicago.edu> gft_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu writes: >>----- >>In article <1990Dec5.094856.3679@csc.anu.oz.au>, pfr654@csc.anu.oz.au writes... >>Not necessarily. For instance, Apple is an American company and much of its >>production is thus oriented towards English. There is probably some non-zero >>amount of money involved in translating sofware, manuals, etc. into French, >>Swiss French, German, Swiss German, Italian, Spanish, Icelandic, Hebrew, >>Japanese, Arabic, Finnish, Swedish, Norwegian, Turkish, Dutch, Faerose >>(Faeroese???), etc. (BTW there is System Software localized to each of the >>above, and possibly more). > >No, no, no. APDA sells these System disks for $35 if I remember >correct. So it can't help a thing. I'm sorry, perhaps I was mistaken on this. I thought that localized system software was distributed in the relevant country. For instance, I thought Finnish system software would be distributed in Finland. If this is not the case, I stand corrected. If it is the case, you have no point. Robert ============================================================================ = gft_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu * generic disclaimer: * "It's more fun to = = * all my opinions are * compute" = = * mine * -Kraftwerk = ============================================================================
nilesinc@well.sf.ca.us (Avi Rappoport) (12/07/90)
In article <1990Dec5.004655.20387@Neon.Stanford.EDU> philip@pescadero.stanford.edu writes: >How about starting a political campaign against international price fixing? >The following changes might help: >2. make it illegal to refuse service / support to anyone who imports > through "unofficial" channels (preferably, make the concept of > sole distributor/sole importer illegal as a monopolistic practice) I think there are differences between software and hardware sales. If a company has to pay someone to localize the product, and do tech support, it makes sense for them to want to get some return for that investment. There is a value for the customer, rather than a rip-off. -- -- Help me justify my online bills: ask me EndNote questions, please! -- Avi Rappoport 2000 Hearst, Berkeley, CA 94709 nilesinc@well.sf.ca.us, 415-649-8176 Niles.Assoc on AppleLink fax: 415-649-8179
rcbaab@rw7.urc.tue.nl (Annard (Icon) Brouwer) (12/07/90)
nilesinc@well.sf.ca.us (Avi Rappoport) writes: >In article <1990Dec5.004655.20387@Neon.Stanford.EDU> philip@pescadero.stanford.edu writes: >>How about starting a political campaign against international price fixing? >>The following changes might help: >>2. make it illegal to refuse service / support to anyone who imports >> through "unofficial" channels (preferably, make the concept of >> sole distributor/sole importer illegal as a monopolistic practice) >I think there are differences between software and hardware sales. If >a company has to pay someone to localize the product, and do tech support, >it makes sense for them to want to get some return for that investment. >There is a value for the customer, rather than a rip-off. This is the most outrageous idea I have heard for many a day! In the Netherlands it's nearly impossible to get ANY good tech support, be it from Apple or another company... Most of the time I have to tell them what's new (listen: they even shipped System 6.0.6 here with the new Macs!). I'm of the opinion that whereever I bought the product (hardware and software), I'm the customer, I have paid a great deal of money to get something and I want service! Have a nice day! Annard -- | Annard Brouwer Bitnet : rcgbbaab@heitue51 | Dreef 74 UUCP : rcbaab@urc.tue.nl | NL-5504 LD Veldhoven packet-radio : pe1koo@pi8mid | The Netherlands [44.137.28.6]
ingemar@isy.liu.se (Ingemar Ragnemalm) (12/10/90)
pfr654@csc.anu.oz.au writes: >It seems that the reason that Apple is making such large sums of money >nowadays is that us foreigners (from Finland, New Zealand, Japan and >Australia) are paying about twice as much for the same equipment as >are the US customers. Since we account for about 1/2 of the number of boxes >sold, then we must account for more than 1/2 of the profit margin. >I would like to hear someone admit that the price has little to do with the >cost of production and shipping, and much more to do with the market - the >US market is much more competitive, so to sell ANYTHING, they have to >charge less. >Other countries, for example, do not have the NeXT - and if we do get it, >the pricing will no doubt follow all of the other big computer companies' >policies. Here in Sweden, I can't blame Apple for charging too much, compared to US. Most equipment imported from US will cost about 10 SEK (swedish crowns) per USD. Compared to the exchange rate, about 6 SEK/USD, it appears a bit expensive, but it applies to virtually *all* equpiment. High taxes, freight and importer's profits makes the difference. That 10 to 1 rule of thumb was applicable to Macs as well as anything else, until recently. When I compare swedich and US Mac prices, I don't feel bad about it at all: it is roughly 8 to 1 now! Someone has cut corners. Can it be different market strategies in different local Apple departments? -- Ingemar Ragnemalm Dept. of Electrical Engineering ...!uunet!mcvax!enea!rainier!ingemar .. University of Linkoping, Sweden ingemar@isy.liu.se