shwake@raysnec.UUCP (Ray Shwake) (11/27/90)
www@sppy00.UUCP (Victor Shakapopolis) writes: >I am considering replacing my Mac Plus with either a Mac IIsi or a Mac >IIci. I can purchase a Mac IIci with 4MB/80MB, RGB monitor and keyboard >for about $1,300 more than what I would pay for a IIsi with a similar >configuration (5MB/80MB, RGB monitor and keyboard). Does this figure take into account the additional cost of an adapter board to get the 68882 coprocessor chip (standard on ci, not on si)? Also, note that, with only 4 SIMM slots, memory expansion beyond 5 MB requires replacement of *all* 1 MB SIMMs with 4 MB SIMMS according to a recent InfoWorld. Now *that* will be costly!
kent@circus.camex.com (Kent Borg) (11/28/90)
In article <1034@sppy00.UUCP> www@sppy00.UUCP (Victor Shakapopolis) writes: > >I am considering replacing my Mac Plus with either a Mac IIsi or a Mac >IIci. ... >My question, is the IIci worth the additional $1,300 over the IIsi? The differences are approximately four: 1) The IIci is faster then the IIsi 2) The IIci is more expandable than the IIsi. 3) The IIsi is smaller, cheaper, and quieter than the IIci. 4) The IIsi has sexy (but useless??) sound input hardware. Do you plan on adding more than one card to your new Macintosh? (Remember, the IIsi does have built-in 13", 8-bit video--like the IIci.) The IIci is somewhat faster than the IIsi, partly because of its 25Mhz clock (vs. 20MHz) and partly because the IIci includes a math chip out-of-the-box. The IIsi only includes an FPU when you add a necessary Apple adaptor card for a Nubus or PDS card. The IIci can also take a plugin cache card for a 30%-ish speedup. On the IIsi's plus-side, it is smaller, lighter, quieter (?), and cheaper than the IIci. (At home I recently swapped a worked-owned IIsi for a work-owned IIfx. I am waiting to get the IIsi back home. The IIfx might be faster, but it also takes up so much more room, and is *so* much louder--besides, I need Ethernet and the slots at work but not at home.) As for power supply problems, it depends on whether the Nubus card you want to add is a power hog. Most Nubus cards are not a problem. The ones that are power hogs are the ones that are "high performance". Fancy accelerator chips are power-hungry. Some (all?) 24-bit video cards are also power hogs--the video RAM needs to be fast and fast means hungry. What should you buy? Count up all the Nubus cards you know you want to install. If the number is even slightly greater than one, buy a IIci. If you still have a IIsi and no more than a single Nubus board in mind, check that the board follows the Apple power limits. If the IIsi still looks good to you, *buy* one. It is a great machine. Apple is going to sell tons of the--for good reason. -- Kent Borg internet: kent@camex.com AOL: kent borg H:(617) 776-6899 W:(617) 426-3577 "The prospect of their mass excites astrophysicists, who are always on the lookout for ways to make the universe heavier" -- The Economist, 9-22-90
espen@math.uio.no (Espen J. Vestre) (11/29/90)
In article <1660@camex.COM> kent@circus.camex.com (Kent Borg) writes: > What should you buy? Count up all the Nubus cards you know you want > to install. If the number is even slightly greater than one, buy a > IIci. If you still have a IIsi and no more than a single Nubus board > in mind, check that the board follows the Apple power limits. > > If the IIsi still looks good to you, *buy* one. It is a great > machine. Apple is going to sell tons of the--for good reason. > An interesting question is: Which of these machines will there be a '040 upgrade for, in a couple of months? ----------------------------------------- Espen J. Vestre Department of Mathematics University of Oslo P.o. Box 1053 Blindern N-0316 OSLO 3 NORWAY espen@math.uio.no -----------------------------------------
ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright) (11/30/90)
In article <1660@camex.COM> kent@camex.com (Kent Borg) writes: > 4) The IIsi has sexy (but useless??) sound input hardware. The Hyprcard 2 audio pallete will soon ship, so it won't be useless much longer. >The IIci can also take a plugin cache card for a 30%-ish speedup. I believe there is a third party that is planning to market a cache card which will fit into the PDS slot on the IIsi. (I can't resist: Despite rumors to the contrary, the cache card will not work in an automatic teller machine. :-) >What should you buy? Count up all the Nubus cards you know you want >to install. If the number is even slightly greater than one, buy a >IIci. If you still have a IIsi and no more than a single Nubus board >in mind, check that the board follows the Apple power limits. There is also a third-party manufacturer that has announced it will produce a NuBus expansion box for the IIsi. This should solve the power problems as well as increasing the number of slots. (The reason for the power problem is that some NuBus cards use more power than is allocated to one slot.)
torrie@Neon.Stanford.EDU (Evan James Torrie) (11/30/90)
espen@math.uio.no (Espen J. Vestre) writes: >In article <1660@camex.COM> kent@circus.camex.com (Kent Borg) writes: >> What should you buy? Count up all the Nubus cards you know you want >> to install. If the number is even slightly greater than one, buy a >> >An interesting question is: Which of these machines will there be a '040 >upgrade for, in a couple of months? I'd say both of them... although the IIci may be the first to get it - I imagine Daystar Digital are working on 040 revisions of their IIci cache slot plug-ins right now... The only question about the IIsi is whether it has enough power to run the 1.2 mill transistor 68040. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Evan Torrie. Stanford University, Class of 199? torrie@cs.stanford.edu "Dear Fascist Bully Boy, Give me some money, or else. Neil. P.S. May the seed of your loins be fruitful in the womb of your woman..."
long@mcntsh.enet.dec.com (Rich Long) (12/05/90)
[ IIci vs. IIsi ] This is a question I'm arguing over myself. The way I see the differences (some one please correct as needed): IIci IIsi ---- ---- 25Mhz 68030 (MMU) 20Mhz 68030 (MMU) FPU No FPU 3 Nubus slots One gender neutral slot (can be Nubus or PDS, depending on plug-in adapter @ about $200, includes FPU) Can take 1/2 height Can take 1/3rd height drives drives Built-in video for The same built-in video certain Apple monitors Two ADB ports One ADB port Two serial ports Same Cache card None 512K ROM Same ROM SIMM upgrade Same slot 8 RAM SIMM slots, 4 SIMM slots, plus 1MB on the motherboard, expandable expandable via Nubus via Nubus (there goes the slot!) 1 internal floppy Same No built-in sound Built-in sound input input The street prices between a IIci and a IIsi (equipped with FPU) appears to be about $1000. I think the ci is worth the extra bucks, because of expandability and speed. At some point, I'd like to add a second monitor, and with the si, I'd have to kiss the slot goodbye. With the ci, I've still got two more to play with. Also, at some point if you want to expand beyond the motherboard memory (don't laugh!), the ci gives you some extra slots to do it with. Rich
kent@circus.camex.com (Kent Borg) (12/06/90)
In article <1990Nov29.100009.27395@ulrik.uio.no> espen@math.uio.no (Espen J. Vestre) writes: >An interesting question is: Which of these machines [IIci or IIsi] >will there be a '040 upgrade for, in a couple of months? How much power does a 68040 suck? That might make the difference, the IIsi maybe can't keep a 68040 fed. Second question: How much support circuitry does a 68040 need? Could it be squeezed on the IIsi adapter while still leaving room for the Nubus slot? (*Certainly* won't need a 68881 on that card if there is a 68040 there! That helps some.) Considerations: The IIci is owned by people who wanted more power than a IIcx. The IIsi will probably have a bigger installed base before long. Which is the better market for Daystar, et al, to tackle? I hadn't thought of being able soon to add a 68040 to a IIsi. Interesting idea...nice idea! P.S. We really seem to be heading away from having very many open slots. Sure, most people don't use them, but some folks are really hurting in slot-shortages. -- Kent Borg internet: kent@camex.com AOL: kent borg H:(617) 776-6899 W:(617) 426-3577 Kent's Invasion Countdown: 44 Days
jtgorman@cs.arizona.edu (J. Taggart Gorman) (12/06/90)
In article <17802@shlump.nac.dec.com> long@mcntsh.enet.dec.com (Rich Long) writes: > > [ IIci vs. IIsi ] > > IIci IIsi > ---- ---- > 3 Nubus slots One gender neutral slot (can be Nubus or PDS, > depending on plug-in adapter @ about $200, > includes FPU) As mentioned elsewhere, if you _really_ need to, you can get an expansion chassis, but they supposedly cost near $1,000. (Prices anyone?) > Two ADB ports One ADB port You can get a Y-ADB cable for about $17, if you need two ports. I'll be getting this cable. > 8 RAM SIMM slots, 4 SIMM slots, plus 1MB on the motherboard, expandable > expandable via Nubus via Nubus (there goes the slot!) With the current limit of usable system memory at 8 megs, a IIsi user can get to that limit quickly with 2 meg SIMMs. (Yes, the ci user can get there with 1 meg SIMMs, but that's not my point.) You can get up to 17 megs and I really don't think many of us need that much memory. Hell, I'll be happy with the 5 megs I will have. Just trying to even the score. I'm not saying the IIsi is better, but it's all I could afford, so I will get and love it and hug it and name it George... | John Taggart Gorman Jr. | "I'm a no rust build up man myself." | | -Christian Slater | jtgorman@caslon.cs.arizona.edu | in 'Heathers'
long@mcntsh.enet.dec.com (Rich Long) (12/06/90)
In article <572@caslon.cs.arizona.edu>, jtgorman@cs.arizona.edu (J. Taggart Gorman) writes... > With the current limit of usable system memory at 8 megs, a IIsi user can >get to that limit quickly with 2 meg SIMMs. (Yes, the ci user can get there >with 1 meg SIMMs, but that's not my point.) You can get up to 17 megs and >I really don't think many of us need that much memory. Hell, I'll be >happy with the 5 megs I will have. Well, I take the attitude that one can never have too much memory. Just think, when the Plus first came out, 1MB was considered a lot; now, it's minimal, and when System 7.0 appears, it will be inadequate. Things like color paint programs, sound digitizers, page layout applications, etc. can be quite memory-hungry. 17MB may sound like a lot now, but as applications grow in capability and complexity, so will memory needs. I'd just rather have a system that can easily expand if need be. [BTW, does anyone know what the limit is on Nubus expansion memory?] Yes, I know about Virtual, and it's very nice, but there's no substitute for real memory. Take it from one currently using a 16MB VAX, and I could use a lot more! Richard C. Long * long@mcntsh.enet.dec.com * ...!decwrl!mcntsh.enet.dec.com!long * long%mcntsh.dec@decwrl.enet.dec.com
jimb@silvlis.com (Jim Budler) (12/11/90)
Memory on the IIsi is expandable to 17m using 4 meg SIMMs, and
is compatible with future 16meg SIMMs. Do you need slow NuBus
memory if those 16meg SIMMs become available?
Rumor is several 3rd party vendors are working on bus expanders.
If the quantities of IIsi's reported to be shipping are correct
I suspect they're working hard.
Do you need extra slots, really? I work with spreadsheets, Think C.
telecom programs, misc. utilities, and the only thing I can think
of are a 24 bit video card or a two page b&w card.
Yes, with more slots, I could have both. But I find it hard to
believe my finances could really extend to both.
The non FPU isn't really a question, if you use your slot for
anything, you have an FPU. If you don't you can buy a slot adaptor
to get one, or wait a while. Third party vendors are *bound* to
offer an FPU board. Therefore, if you're worrying about your slot
usage, you neednt worry about the FPU.
jim
.
--
__ __
/ o / Jim Budler jimb@silvlis.com | Proud
/ / /\/\ /__ Silvar-Lisco, Inc. +1.408.991.6115 | MacIIsi
/__/ / / / /__/ 703 E. Evelyn Ave. Sunnyvale, Ca. 94086 | ownerlong@mcntsh.enet.dec.com (Rich Long) (12/13/90)
In article <1990Dec11.083628.12791@silvlis.com>, jimb@silvlis.com (Jim Budler) writes... >Memory on the IIsi is expandable to 17m using 4 meg SIMMs, and >is compatible with future 16meg SIMMs. Do you need slow NuBus >memory if those 16meg SIMMs become available? Memory on the IIci is expandable to 32MB using 4MB SIMMs. I believe the ci is also compatible with 16MB SIMMs (anyone know for sure?). >Rumor is several 3rd party vendors are working on bus expanders. >If the quantities of IIsi's reported to be shipping are correct >I suspect they're working hard. You mean like "slots in a box"? The ones I've seen for the SE are usually around a grand. For that money, might as well have bought the ci. Richard C. Long * long@mcntsh.enet.dec.com * ...!decwrl!mcntsh.enet.dec.com!long * long%mcntsh.dec@decwrl.enet.dec.com