steffen@watson.bcm.tmc.edu (David Steffen) (01/05/91)
Thanks to all who replied to my questions about the AppleII emulation card that Apple will be releasing early next year, and my apologies for waiting so long to post a summary; the version of Pnews I have access to is broken; I am borrowing another machine to post this. Probably the best piece of advice I received was to look at the MacWorld review. I had read the MacUser review, but with regards to this card, the MacWorld review was much better. One major question was not answered by my respondants: With the inexpensive (12") color monitor on the LC, the resolution in "Mac-Mode" is less than the maximum resolution of an AppleIIe. Does anyone know how this will be resolved? If I have to get the better color monitor, this extra expense will kill the purchase for me. According to my sources at Baylor College of Medicine Computer Resource Center, the AppleIIe card DOES work with the 12" monitor (they say a demo of a pre-release card) so it must be resolved somehow. Summary of responses (with my editorial comments in angle brackets; e.g. <comment>; follows: ====================================================================== From: tribe@ted.cs.uidaho.edu (Duane Tribe) Organization: University of Idaho, Moscow Steffen writes: >(2) What does AppleII emulation do to the screen display? Apple II programs depend on most of those color restrictions, so the adapter must emulate them. Try to find someone with an Apple II with and RGB monitor or an Apple //gs (running *old* software!), I suspect that they will look the same as the LC. I really doubt that the emulator card will give access to extra res or colors (but there may be undocumented hacks... :-) Also, I suspect that you will have to buy the 640x480 color 13" monitor. The Apple IIe "double hi-res" graphics or 80 col text will require 560 pixels per scanline, beyond the 512x384 ability of the cheaper 12" color. ----- From: asuvax.eas.asu.edu (John A. Starta) Organization: Before Computing Inc., Phoenix, AZ Steffen writes: > (1) Using this card, can you read/write 3.5" AppleII disks? I can't say for certain about the use of the internal 3.5". At the Cupertino roll-out, they were doing transparent reads and writes to an external 5.25" drive. (The standard Apple 5.25" drive.) I'm sure the same is true of a 3.5" drive; the question is whether the internal one is available as an Apple II device. <According to my reading of the MaxWorld article, the answer is YES> > (2) What does AppleII emulation do to the screen display? It makes it "as ugly as an Apple II". > (3) Is it possible to somehow attach a 5.25" drive that can both > function as an AppleII drive and as an MSDOS drive? You can attach a 5.25" drive, but I don't think it can function as a MS-DOS drive using Apple File Exchange. Perhaps with another utility, but to the best of my knowledge, Apple File Exchange doesn't have the code to read 5.25" disks. <Apple File exchange can read a special Apple-supplied 5.25" drive, but as best I can tell, to read AppleII and MSDOS 5.25" disks will require 2 different 5.25" drives.> > (4) Can you run AppleII processes at the same time as Mac processes? No, not currently. (Don't read anything into this.) > (5) Is it possible to use this card as a coprocessor? Anything is possible, but for the time being I believe the answer is no. <As best I can tell, the card takes over the machine and so nothing like the two possibilities (4&5) I proposed can be done.> ----- From: dave@prc.unisys.com (Dave Matuszek) Organization: Unisys Corporation, Paoli Research Center; Paoli, PA The card is essentially an Apple IIe on a chip. You start it simply by running the Mac application "Apple II". I don't yet know how you stop it. So basically, you're running one computer OR the other. > (1) Can you read/write 3.5" AppleII disks? The card has a built-in port for the old 5.25" drive, and that's what I'll be using. If the Apple IIe does, then I expect that it is supported. My Apple II+ never had a 3.5" drive, so I've never looked into this. > (2) What does AppleII emulation do to the screen display? As for the screen display, there's bad news and good news. The bad news is that Apple II programs produce Apple II displays, in glorious green, blue, purple, orange, B&W. There's no way to magically improve the resolution or the color scheme. But the good news is that the output signal is intercepted by the card and changed to Color QuickDraw commands, so you get the same crisp images you expect from a Mac screen (and without slowing down the program any!). > (3) Is it possible to somehow attach a 5.25" drive that can both > function as an AppleII drive and as an MSDOS drive? As noted above, you can certainly attach the 5.25" drive. My Apple II+ has been mostly dormant the last couple of years, so I don't know where the Apple IIe has gone. But the answer to your question is the same as it is for the Apple IIe (whatever that is). > (4) Can you run AppleII processes at the same time as Mac processes? No. As I understand it, some of the Mac motherboard is used to help the card process the video signals for the IIe card. > (5) Is it possible (assuming the ability to program) to use this card > in other inventive ways, e.g. as a coprocessor? Very likely not. BTW, the December (?) MacWorld had a good writeup on the IIe card. Sounds like Apple really did it right. Some unsolicited opinions: The Apple II technology is near the end of its lifetime. Apple Corp. would really like to replace them all with Macs. BUT there's a HUGE investment in lots and lots of good software, expecially educational software, that it would be a real shame to lose, and lots of vocal people want "Apple II forever!" I think the Apple IIGS was the first attempt to kill the Apple II off; but when I looked at them to keep my software investment, I found the IIGS (1) too expensive, (2) too slow, (3) the Mac interface was too seriously compromised. I think the LC is the second attempt, and the one that works for me. Bottom line: If you have Apple II software that you want to keep, but you really prefer the Mac, then an LC with IIe emulator is the way to go. (This is my status.) If you want a Mac but also want access to the vast array of games and educational software available for the Apple, then an LC with IIe emulator is the way to go. If you want a Mac primarily for serious purposes, and don't have any real interest in existing Apple II software, skip the emulator card. There are enough good games on the Mac to keep you happy (but just barely), and I predict that the LC will lead to an upsurge in the number of good Mac games. If I'm wrong, you can always buy the card later. ----- From: eplrx7!zip!janesdc@uunet.uu.net (Dave) Organization: DuPont Engineering Physics Lab Unfortunately, you switch between Apple II and Mac modes by re-booting the machine, i.e. no Mac and Apple II under MultiFinder. I think they did it that way because it was the cheapest way to do it, which was the central design philosophy for the LC. If your interested in the background story of the LC, check out Stephen Levy's Iconoclast column in the December MacWorld entitled The Strange Story of the Macintosh LC, the computer Apple built in spite of itself. ----- From: stuart@cbnewsc.att.com (Stuart Ericson) Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories > (1) Can you read/write 3.5" AppleII disks? I think you will be able to use 3.5" AppleII disks directly. I also was under the impression that you could ALREADY read them with apple file exchange on ANY mac... > (2) What does AppleII emulation do to the screen display? From what I've read, I understand that the emulation takes over the whole machine, and changes the display for Apple IIe mode. Specific resolutions have not been discussed. > (3) Is it possible to somehow attach a 5.25" drive that can both > function as an AppleII drive and as an MSDOS drive? The card has ports for a joystick and a 5.25" drive. It is probably only designed to be used while emulating the Apple IIe. > (4) Can you run AppleII processes at the same time as Mac processes? Not according to reports - because the emulation mode takes over the whole machine - you have to boot up in emulation mode or something like that. It has been stated that you CANNOT do Mac and Apple IIe at the same time. Whether this is a hardware or software problem is uncertain. > (5) Is it possible to use this card as a coprocessor? Probably not. =============================== End of Responses ========================