[comp.sys.mac.misc] General Mac questions

fransson@blake.u.washington.edu (Larry Fransson) (01/18/91)

In article <2508@westmark.WESTMARK.COM> billy@westmark.WESTMARK.COM (Bill D'Augustine) writes:
>I am contimplating getting myself a Mac Classic computer, and have
>some questions I an curious about.
>
>First, I settled on the Classic, cause its cheap, and it does what
>I would want it too do. In my opinion, anything above an SE, would
>be overkill for me (altho colour would be nice, but I can do with
>out it)

I recently placed an order for the Classic for the same reasons (plus the fact
that my 7-year-old //e just doesn't cut it for engineering-type applications...
I'm being called a traitor by ][ fans for wanting to sell it).

>Anyways, on the Classic model, there are two varities: one with no
>hard drive for about $900 and one with a 40mb drive for about $1400.
>$500 for a 40mb drive is quite a lot of money, so I am wondering,
>if I get the one without the hard drive, can I later add a hard
>drive too it?

Wow...someone's doing some funky pricing there.  The University Bookstore here
(University of Washington) has them for $999 and $1299 for the 1Meg and the
2/40, respectively.  For that reason, I'm buying the 2/40.  In your case, it
*may* be less expensive to buy the 1 Meg Classic without the hard drive and
buy the hard drive separately.  You can, in fact, add an internal hard drive
after the fact.  I'm not sure what that would involve, but you can bet there
would be a charge for some service person to install it.  I had considered this
route (I have a friend who works in Apple's corporate office not far from here
who works as the equipment manager, and could easily do this for me...he told me
I should look into that possibility), but it is difficult to find a good hard
drive for less than $400 that I've seen, so I chose to go for the 2/40.  It
should be noted that the hard drive installed at the factory is a Quantum hard
drive.  Other brands *could* void the warranty.  (Of course, if the warranty has
expired, I guess nobody cares too much.)

Another consideration in thinking about which to buy is how much memory you
want.  If 1 Meg will work for you, fine.  But if you are going to want more
than that, you will have to buy the memory expansion card (you see, that's
likely part of the $500 difference between the two).  Once you've got 2 MB,
it is relatively simple and cheap to expand the memory farther.  I have seen
mail order Simms chips for as low as $45 per MB.  (If I remember correctly, they
are user-installable, but you will want to check that to be sure.)  So, then,
for $90 plus shipping, you have yourself a 4MB Mac (that's as far as it goes).

I recommend checking the classified ads and various Mac/computer-oriented
publications for hard drives and memory.  Find out what it is likely to cost you
to upgrade later.  Once you have a good idea of what it may cost later, you may
find it is cheaper to buy it now (I did, anyway).

Good luck.

                                        -Larry

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-   Larry L. Fransson      ||    UW Department of Aeronautics and Astronautics -
- Naval Nuclear Aviator    ||             fransson@u.washington.edu            -
-   Aircraft Designer      ||  It's really handy to have friends who work for  -
-    Extraordinaire        ||  Apple...even if we're not roommates anymore...  -
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

macman@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Dennis H Lippert) (01/18/91)

In article <14673@milton.u.washington.edu> fransson@blake.u.washington.edu (Larry Fransson) writes:
>In article <2508@westmark.WESTMARK.COM> billy@westmark.WESTMARK.COM (Bill D'Augustine) writes:
>>I am contimplating getting myself a Mac Classic computer, and have
>>some questions I an curious about.
>
>>Anyways, on the Classic model, there are two varities: one with no
>>hard drive for about $900 and one with a 40mb drive for about $1400.
>>$500 for a 40mb drive is quite a lot of money, so I am wondering,
>>if I get the one without the hard drive, can I later add a hard
>>drive too it?
>
>buy the hard drive separately.  You can, in fact, add an internal hard drive
>after the fact.  I'm not sure what that would involve, but you can bet there

It would involve one of the new "slow-start" hard drives to avoid frying the
power supply...

>Another consideration in thinking about which to buy is how much memory you
>want.  If 1 Meg will work for you, fine.  But if you are going to want more
>than that, you will have to buy the memory expansion card (you see, that's
>likely part of the $500 difference between the two).  Once you've got 2 MB,
>it is relatively simple and cheap to expand the memory farther.  I have seen

When running a Classic.. you must remember that you're running system 6.0.7,
Mac systems are getting bigger with every release... 6.0.7 running on 1 meg
is really starting to push things a bit.

For the record... I have a Classic 2/40, the student price at Pitt was 1114 +
tax & $45 shipping (they didn't tell me about the shipping until I was ready to
order... I avoided that charge and a three-month wait by buying elsewhere...
sure I paid more, but...)
I believe the 1 meg is like $749 here.

But honestly, the memory expansion card ($150) and the 4o meg hard drive 
(approx $350) will add up to the $500 retail price difference... and there
*installed*... giving you a factory-fresh, never-opened machine.

And as to the point of "If it's aout of warranty, who cares?".... there is 
(theoretically, at least) not a single Classic on the face of the earth whose
warranty will expire in less than 8 months, 27 days from now.  Remember...
1 year warranty... released just 3 months ago!

Hope the above helps bias the decision toward the 2/40!  :-)

Dennis Lippert- macman@unix.cis.pitt.edu

gsm@gsm001.uucp (Geoffrey S. Mendelson) (01/19/91)

billy@westmark.WESTMARK.COM (Bill D'Augustine) asked:

>
>I am contimplating getting myself a Mac Classic computer, and have
>some questions I an curious about.
>

I have recently purchased a Mac Classic.   If you use system 6.0.7,
which is the earliest release that works (there was a 6.0.6) and is 
supported on a Classic, you will have trouble fitting any applications
on a 1.4meg floppy.

The price of $500 for the two meg ram, 40 meg disk is actually quite
a bargin.  The drives sell for about $399. new. They are Connor 1" high
3 1/2" scuzzy drives.  You can pick up a used one on the net for about 
$250 plus shipping.  

The extra meg of ram is not just a SIMM (plug in module), there is an
expansion card reqired too.

So what you end up spending is:

Used drive	250
1meg Simm	 40
Non Apple card	150
___________________
total		440

Considering the Apple version costs you only 60 bucks more, its worth
getting it for the warrenty.  Note that this was with a USED drive,
with a new on its almost $150 more. 


As for price, you can easliy get your local dealer down to $1400 for
the 2/40 system (I did).  I have heard that Heath/Zenith sells them for
$1300, but I did not bother to check them out as I had already bought mine.


I would not bother buying an Se as the two differences are:
 
	1.) 	It has an expansion slot and 
	2.) 	It has a second floppy drive bay.

Since the Classic has an expansion slot (disguised as the memory card slot
for the 2meg model), number one is a moot point. You can already buy non
Apple memory and 68030 cards for the Classic.  

A second floppy is not really worth it, as an Apple 1.4m floppy drive 
is almost as expensive as their 40m hard disk. If you use an internal
hard disk on the Se, you give up the second floppy bay anyway.

I expect that you will want the hard disk as soon as you get the machine.
I also expect that you will want a 68030 in a few months.  The Classic
is infuriatingly slow.  I do not have another Mac to compare it to,
but I do have a 12Mz 80286 and an Amiga 2000.  Both machines seem to leave the 
Classic in the dust. It's not really that bad, but since you can't see
the disk activity light (there isn't one) or hear the disk, (it's verrrry
quiet), it just seems to be standing still alot.

Then on the other hand, if you don't get bored easliy, you may not care.

If you've never had a "personal" computer before, I suggest that you look
at a used Mac Plus.  You can get one for about $500. or less if you bargain.
Just make sure that it has at least 1meg of ram, and an 800k floopy drive.

If you have it for a month and decide you aren't one of "the rest of us",
(you prefer a command line interface) or you decide you like the Mac, but
want speed or color, you can sell the plus for very close to what you paid for
it and get a system more suited to your needs.


-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Geoffrey S. Mendelson  |  Computer Software Consulting    |    Dr.      |
|  (215) 242-8712         |  IBM Mainframes, Unix, PCs, Macs |    Who      |
|  uunet!gsm001!gsm       |                                  |    Fan  too!| 

francis@uchicago.edu (Francis Stracke) (01/19/91)

In article <1991Jan18.212051.457@gsm001.uucp> gsm@gsm001.uucp (Geoffrey S. Mendelson) writes:

   billy@westmark.WESTMARK.COM (Bill D'Augustine) asked:

   >
   >I am contimplating getting myself a Mac Classic computer, and have
   >some questions I an curious about.
   >

   I have recently purchased a Mac Classic.   If you use system 6.0.7,
   which is the earliest release that works (there was a 6.0.6) and is 

Strictly speaking, 6.0.6 is not a release, since it was never
released, if you see what I mean.  (Or even if you don't, actually.
:-)

--
/=============================================================================\
| Francis Stracke		| My opinions are my own.  I don't steal them.|
| Department of Mathematics	|=============================================|
| University of Chicago		| Until you stalk and overrun,	     	      |
| francis@zaphod.uchicago.edu	|  you can't devour anyone. -- Hobbes 	      |
\=============================================================================/

smiley@gcc.uucp (Wise men still seek Him) (02/05/91)

In article <2508@westmark.WESTMARK.COM>, billy@westmark.WESTMARK.COM (Bill D'Augustine) writes:
> I am contimplating getting myself a Mac Classic computer...
> ... on the Classic model, there are two varities: one with no
> hard drive for about $900 and one with a 40mb drive for about $1400.
> $500 for a 40mb drive is quite a lot of money, so I am wondering,
> if I get the one without the hard drive, can I later add a hard
> drive too it? 

The model with the 40 MB hard drive also includes 2 MB of RAM - making it 
ready to run the System 7.X software, when it becomes available.  The extra
megabyte of RAM in the Classic involves an extra card that plugs into the
board, not just another 1 MB SIMM.  Thus the $500 gets you the hard drive,
the card with the extra SIMM sockets and another 1 MB SIMM.

Although the $500 may still seem like a lot for a 40 MB drive and the memory,
consider the fact that the power supply on the Classic is small - it needs a
drive that specifically meets that small power requirement.  Presumably,
the drive that Apple put into it does - third party internal drives may not!
(Several third parties initially released and recalled Classic internal drives
for this reason.  They are now beginning to reappear.)

Jim Smiley