rkoble@blackbird.afit.af.mil (Roger D. Koble) (01/25/91)
I recently purchased a IIsi. Occationaly I get an odd bug. When clicking on a dialog box button sometimes the computer will continue to act as if the mouse button is down (even though it is up). For example, if you move up to a pull down menu, it pulls it down, or if you move back on top of the dialog box button, it gets hilighted. Clicking on the button again usually clears up the problem. Since this happens in various applications I suspect that it is either a system or an si bug. Does anyone else have this problem. Is there any correction for it? Roger Koble The opinions experessed here are my own.
dana@are.berkeley.edu (Dana E. Keil) (01/25/91)
rkoble@blackbird.afit.af.mil (Roger D. Koble) writes: >I recently purchased a IIsi. Occationaly I get an odd bug. When clicking >on a dialog box button sometimes the computer will continue to act as >if the mouse button is down (even though it is up). The same thing happens with my new IIci. I'm beginning to think it is something faulty with the mouse; but I'd like to hear from others who may have seen/solved the problem before I take the mouse in for replace- ment. Or maybe it's a 6.0.7 problem? My IIci had 6.0.7 on it when it arrived, lately I've been booting off a Syquest that has 6.0.5 and it seems like maybe it's not doing it (the problem isn't so bad that I've spent time trying to track it down, so I don't really know whether the problem doesn't occur when 6.0.5 is running). The mouse, by the way, says that it's made in USA and has a grey ball. While we're on mouse problems, has anyone seen this one? On an SE running system 6.0.5 with a Kensington Trackball, occasionally the cursor will get "stuck" on startup. That is, the cursor won't move from it's initial position in the upper left-hand corner. Although it doesn't seem like a general system crash (keys will sort of do things, I think, the SuperClock time will update, and so forth), the only thing to do is to restart again. I try jiggling the ADB cables but they don't seem to be obviously loose (I don't jiggle them while the machine is on, though). Usually restarting fixes it but sometimes I have to restart a third time. -- Dana E. Keil Department of Agricultural and Resource Economics University of California, Berkeley dana@are.berkeley.edu
bin@primate.wisc.edu (Brain in Neutral) (01/26/91)
From article <1892@blackbird.afit.af.mil>, by rkoble@blackbird.afit.af.mil (Roger D. Koble): > I recently purchased a IIsi. Occationaly I get an odd bug. When clicking > on a dialog box button sometimes the computer will continue to act as > if the mouse button is down (even though it is up). For example, if you > move up to a pull down menu, it pulls it down, or if you move back on top > of the dialog box button, it gets hilighted. Clicking on the button again > usually clears up the problem. Since this happens in various applications > I suspect that it is either a system or an si bug. Does anyone else have > this problem. Is there any correction for it? I have this problem on my si at home, but haven't noticed it on any of the ones at work. I conjecture that it's perhaps a bad mouse? (I've had correspondence with other users experiencing the same problems on si's, which conflicts with my conjecture of course, and indicates an si-specific problem.) Any other si owners with this problem out there? Important, too: any *non-si* owners out there with this problem? Maybe it's specific to new mice, not just this new machine. -- Paul DuBois dubois@primate.wisc.edu
kpmiller@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Kent P Miller) (01/26/91)
I have noticed this too - on an SE/30 running 6.0.7. Maybe that's the problem !?! -- ----------------------- Kent Miller KENT@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu Bitnet -> KENT@uokucsvx
brandonl@gold.gvg.tek.com (Brandon Lovested) (01/26/91)
In article <dana.664818213@are> dana@are.berkeley.edu (Dana E. Keil) writes: >...something faulty with the mouse; but I'd like to hear from others who >may have seen/solved the problem before I take the mouse in for replace- >ment. Or maybe it's a 6.0.7 problem? It's probably not 6.0.7, I'm running that, and I've detected no similar problem. It would seem the next logical thing to do is to borrow another mouse and see if the problem continues. If not, then it was the mouse. If so, then the problem lies within the computer. Perhaps, then, it would be the ADB. ============================================================================== BRANDON G. LOVESTED ::::=:::==::===:==== FOR EVERY VISION, Software Design Engineer ::::=:::==::===:==== THERE IS AN Grass Valley Group ::::=:::==::===:==== EQUAL AND OPPOSITE brandonl@gold.gvg.tek.com ::::=:::==::===:==== REVISION. ==============================================================================
so@duke.cs.duke.edu (Steve Owen) (01/26/91)
In article <3830@uakari.primate.wisc.edu> bin@primate.wisc.edu writes: >From article <1892@blackbird.afit.af.mil>, by rkoble@blackbird.afit.af.mil (Roger D. Koble): >> I recently purchased a IIsi. Occationaly I get an odd bug. When clicking >> on a dialog box button sometimes the computer will continue to act as >> if the mouse button is down (even though it is up). > >Any other si owners with this problem out there? Important, too: any >*non-si* owners out there with this problem? Maybe it's specific to >new mice, not just this new machine. I have the same problem on my IIsi running 6.0.7. I had assumed the problem was caused by one of my many INITs, but I had not taken the trouble to try to track down the guilty one. If this is a hardware problem (such as a bad mouse) I would like to know so I can get it fixed. Anyone out there know the answer? Steve -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Steve Owen ARPA: so@cs.duke.edu Department of Computer Science CSNET: so@duke Duke University UUCP: {mcnc,decvax}!duke!so Durham, NC 27706 USA "It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for subtlety." - Isaac Asimov -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
bin@primate.wisc.edu (Brain in Neutral) (01/26/91)
From article <664826581@grad15.cs.duke.edu>, by so@duke.cs.duke.edu (Steve Owen): > I have the same problem on my IIsi running 6.0.7. I had assumed the > problem was caused by one of my many INITs, but I had not taken the > trouble to try to track down the guilty one. If this is a hardware > problem (such as a bad mouse) I would like to know so I can get it > fixed. Anyone out there know the answer? OK, why don't we do this: if you're experiencing the problem, mail me: Your machine model and system version number How old your machine / mouse are I'll collate the results. -- Paul DuBois dubois@primate.wisc.edu
pmbergland@violet.uwaterloo.ca (Per Bergland) (01/26/91)
Just got my si, and I must say that I'm pleased getting the real heavy ball in the mouse instead of the ill-reputated lightweight one. I have the same problem with the mouse button sticking, but I think it only happens in control manager devices (buttons, scrollbar arrrows etc.). Whassamatter? -Per --
sapienza@bgsuvax.UUCP (Michael A. Sapienza) (01/26/91)
In article <1892@blackbird.afit.af.mil>, rkoble@blackbird.afit.af.mil (Roger D. Koble) writes: > I recently purchased a IIsi. Occationaly I get an odd bug. When clicking > on a dialog box button sometimes the computer will continue to act as > if the mouse button is down (even though it is up). For example, if you > move up to a pull down menu, it pulls it down, or if you move back on top > of the dialog box button, it gets hilighted. Clicking on the button again > usually clears up the problem. Since this happens in various applications > I suspect that it is either a system or an si bug. Does anyone else have > this problem. Is there any correction for it? > > Roger Koble > > The opinions experessed here are my own. I too have had this problem creep up occasionally, although I am using a IIci. The first time that it happened I almost thought that I was in IBM land using Windows or some such garbage. Perish the thought!!! Maybe it is something in the OS? I am using 6.0.7. Anybody else? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | Michael Sapienza | "I happen to be a Republican president - | | Bowling Green State University | ah, the vice president." | | sapienza@andy.bgsu.edu | -- Dan Quayle, who else?!?! | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
kevinb@wheeler.wrcr.unr.edu (Kevin Brewer) (01/26/91)
In article <3830@uakari.primate.wisc.edu> bin@primate.wisc.edu writes: >From article <1892@blackbird.afit.af.mil>, by rkoble@blackbird.afit.af.mil (Roger D. Koble): >> I recently purchased a IIsi. Occationaly I get an odd bug. When clicking >> on a dialog box button sometimes the computer will continue to act as [ stuff exactly describing the problem I have deleted] YES!!! I too have recently had this exact same problem with my new IIsi. It seems to occur at any time (buttons, menus,etc). Thinking it was a corrupted system problem, I reinstalled a new system from the master disk. Alas, the problem came back. :-( I also notice that the keyboard seems to forget that I type a key every once in a while (or is it just my poor typing?). Because of this, I have wondered if it was a ADB related problem. What to do? Does Apple have an official (or unofficial) statement on this yet? Should we take the Mac's back to the dealer for a diagnostic (sp?) check? PRAISE ON The net is great! I thought I had inadvertently fried my mac. Now I know that others have the same problem. "I'm not alone in this world anymore." :-) :-) :-) PRAISE OFF Kevin B. kevinb@wheeler.wrc.unr.edu Kevin Brewer kevinb@wheeler.wrc.unr.edu "When water chokes you, what are you to drink to wash it down?" -Aristotle
frank@dvnspc1.Dev.Unisys.COM (Frank Piper) (01/26/91)
In article <dana.664818213@are> dana@are.berkeley.edu (Dana E. Keil) writes: >rkoble@blackbird.afit.af.mil (Roger D. Koble) writes: [ reports of stuck mouse button deleted ] Our 6.0.7 IIsi sometimes does this too. I doubt it's the mouse; probably yet another problem with 6.0.7. BTW, I've also seen this problem on a PC [bletch, foo] running Windows! (But not 6.0.7 :-) ) Anyway, don't be too quick to blame the hardware, especially when you're running 6.0.7... Frank Piper (frank@dvnspc1.dev.unisys.com) Unisys Devon Engineering
jtgorman@cs.arizona.edu (J. Taggart Gorman) (01/26/91)
From article <1892@blackbird.afit.af.mil>, by rkoble@blackbird.afit.af.mil (Roger D. Koble): > I recently purchased a IIsi. Occationaly I get an odd bug. When clicking > on a dialog box button sometimes the computer will continue to act as I have a IIsi, and _have not_ encountered this problem, buuuuuuuuuuuuuut... I am disatisfied with the mouse, anyways. The rollers in it seem to clog up about evry week to the point where the mouse skips across the screen and I can actually feel the mouse 'stick' alittle. So is this why the IIsi is so cheap? No real interrupt and a mouse with various problems???? | John Taggart Gorman Jr. | "I'm a no rust build up man myself." | | -Christian Slater | jtgorman@caslon.cs.arizona.edu | in 'Heathers'
macman@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Dennis H Lippert) (01/27/91)
In article <1991Jan25.192910.10529@watdragon.waterloo.edu> pmbergland@violet.uwaterloo.ca (Per Bergland) writes: >Just got my si, and I must say that I'm pleased getting the real >heavy ball in the mouse instead of the ill-reputated lightweight one. > >I have the same problem with the mouse button sticking, but I think >it only happens in control manager devices (buttons, scrollbar arrrows etc.). Wrong! I was playing with our scanner station here in the lab today and I had my first button stick on the SI (heavy-ball, "better" (even though I was one of the more vocal complainers about the light "worse") mouse). It was when I was clicking on a menu... I decided not to do what I was gonna do, so I just moved the mouse back up to the menu bar, let go of the button, and lo and behold... the menu stayed there! Confused the heck out of the other user- consultant here! But the scary part is... the menu staying on when you let go of the button has real shades of a PC-like quality to it... yuck! So, it appears that you *can't get* a good mouse from Apple these days... it'll either jump all over the place, or play dead :-). Dennis Lippert - macman@unix.cis.pitt.edu
dana@are.berkeley.edu (Dana E. Keil) (01/29/91)
Last night I just had this "no mouseup" thing happen on my IIci that is running sys 6.0.5. -- Dana E. Keil Department of Agricultural and Resource Economics University of California, Berkeley dana@are.berkeley.edu
dorner@pequod.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Dorner) (01/31/91)
It sounds like you folks have found bad hardware/buggy software. Goodness knows it's not the first time Apple has sacrificed quality in hardware to save a few pennies (original Apple III's and original Mac power supplies come to mind). It's worthwhile to note, however, that Easy Access could probably cause similar symptoms. You might remove it from your system folder and reboot before you blame your rodent. -- Steve Dorner, U of Illinois Computing Services Office Internet: s-dorner@uiuc.edu UUCP: uunet!uiucuxc!uiuc.edu!s-dorner
rdw89@ecs.soton.ac.uk (Williams RD) (01/31/91)
In <1991Jan30.172515.6479@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> dorner@pequod.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Dorner) writes: >It sounds like you folks have found bad hardware/buggy software. Goodness >knows it's not the first time Apple has sacrificed quality in hardware to >save a few pennies (original Apple III's and original Mac power supplies >come to mind). HA! A few pennies eh? At that price! Well all I can say is that if the si I've ordered comes up with all the bugs mentioned in the last few weeks, the best use I'll have for it is as a doorstop. It's a pity that the bit in the si advertising leaflet ("The best thing about the si is the knowledge that it possesses plug-and-go compatibility with all other macintosh products, giving the user...") isn't legally binding! Seriously though, are there really that many problems with the si, or are the problems described common to all the Mac II range? I can't see why it should be a major problem designing a computer based on a machine that has already been around for some time. Software that is 32 bit clean should (I would have thought) work as well on the si as on the ci or fx. Why then are people getting drastic sounding bombs like 'bus error'? Richard.
amanda@visix.com (Amanda Walker) (02/01/91)
I haven't had any mouse problems with my IIsi (although I hate the "improved" lightweight ADB mouse!), but I have noticed that it sometimes ignores key up-transitions (usually on the left shift key, but occasionally on alphabetic keys). Sigh. I haven't gotten around to playing the Keyboard Swap Game yet, but it's on my To Do list... -- Amanda Walker Visix Software Inc.
jtgorman@cs.arizona.edu (J. Taggart Gorman) (02/02/91)
In article <3875@uakari.primate.wisc.edu> bin@primate.wisc.edu writes: >4) A note of personal experience. I started thinking about replacing >my old 512KE (which I've since given away) back in April, and waited >all the way to October to find out what the new machines would be like, >and slapped down $3K to get a IIsi in November. 3 months later, I >have not a single regret. Neither do my 3- or 14-year old. The thing >is constantly in use. I can't get near it as often as I'd like, but >after all, when I bought it, I wanted it to be used. I too, got a new IIsi and that poor thing has gotten more use in the past month than my Plus did in two or three months. It's pretty much a game of "Who gets back to the dorm first gets to use the Mac first." Luckily, since I _own_ the thing, I can pull rank on my roommate and use it when it's a matter of life 'n' death. :) | John Taggart Gorman Jr. | "I'm a no rust build up man myself." | | -Christian Slater | jtgorman@caslon.cs.arizona.edu | in 'Heathers'
frank@mnetor.UUCP (Frank Kolnick) (02/04/91)
In article <6494@ecs.soton.ac.uk> rdw89@ecs.soton.ac.uk (Williams RD) writes: )In <1991Jan30.172515.6479@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> dorner@pequod.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Dorner) writes: )... ) Seriously though, are there really that many problems with the si, or )are the problems described common to all the Mac II range? I can't )see why it should be a major problem designing a computer based on a )machine that has already been around for some time. Software that is )32 bit clean should (I would have thought) work as well on the si as )on the ci or fx. Why then are people getting drastic sounding bombs like )'bus error'? Since you asked... I've had my si since last November. It crashes about ten times a day. In fact, if I print something, there's a 90% chance the next app I open will crash the system. Most of the games I had (on an SE, which practically never crashed, with the same set of software) don't work. About half the time when I boot the machine, the boot hangs, generally on a disk access (with the only scsi device being the Apple internal hard disk, btw). Apple has replaced the motherboard, but that had no effect. Does that answer your question :-) I'm trying to remain optimistic. I like the price, I like the speed, and I like the footprint. But overall I don't like the machine, and am hoping Apple will solve the problem (hopefully a system 6.0.7 problem so I don't have to lose my machine for service again) before I get sick of it. (Btw, the technician tried booting the system with no external devices hooked up and with no inits installed with the same results. A friend of mine with an si, but different software -- more finance oriented than me -- has similar problems, plus others related apparently to his color screen.) In summary, there's something seriously wrong here. The new machines are excellent in concept, but somewhat weak in execution. -- Frank Kolnick, Basis Computer Systems Inc. UUCP: {allegra, linus}!utzoo!mnetor!frank
rob@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Robert K Shull) (02/06/91)
In article <5659@mnetor.UUCP> frank@mnetor.UUCP (Frank Kolnick) writes: >In article <6494@ecs.soton.ac.uk> rdw89@ecs.soton.ac.uk (Williams RD) writes: >)In <1991Jan30.172515.6479@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> dorner@pequod.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Dorner) writes: >)... >) Seriously though, are there really that many problems with the si, or >)are the problems described common to all the Mac II range? I can't > >Since you asked... >I've had my si since last November. It crashes about ten times a day. In >fact, if I print something, there's a 90% chance the next app I open will >crash the system. Most of the games I had (on an SE, which practically never >crashed, with the same set of software) don't work. About half the time when >I boot the machine, the boot hangs, generally on a disk access (with the only >scsi device being the Apple internal hard disk, btw). Apple has replaced >the motherboard, but that had no effect. Does that answer your question :-) Sounds like it could be a disk problem? >In summary, there's something seriously wrong here. The new machines are >excellent in concept, but somewhat weak in execution. I can't say what's wrong with your machine, other than to say that I don't see it on my wife's machine :-). I had pre-loaded the cartridge drive on my Mac II with System 6.0.7 before she received her IIsi, and when it arrived I simply connected the drive to the IIsi and dragged the System Folder over (I had, of course, configured the System for both machines). I don't think I've ever seen a crash on the new machine. Of course, I pre-check new downloads for compatibility on my Mac II, and find some problems occasionally. Anyway, I haven't yet seen a program that will run on my Mac II under 6.0.7 and won't run on the IIsi. The incompatibilities I've seen or heard of are mainly: (1) Programs that won't run on ANY Mac II series. Extremely common problem if you are moving up from a Plus, SE, or earlier. Many old programs had serious problems on Mac II's. Games are the absolute worst offenders on this. INIT's are a close second. (2) Programs that won't run under the new Sound Manager added in 6.0.6 (and 6.0.7). It's a good time to find this out, since they'll certainly die under System 7.0. Again, games seem to have problems with this (3) Programs that were written to expect an FPU on any Mac II series machine. I've never seen this, since her machine came with the NuBus adapter installed. (This one's a pet peeve of mine. After all, SysEnvirons was included for a reason). >Frank Kolnick, Robert -- Robert K. Shull rob@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu chinet!uokmax!rob