minich@unx2.ucc.okstate.edu (Robert Minich) (02/17/91)
allbery@NCoast.ORG (Brandon S. Allbery KB8JRR) writes: | Look, friend. Advertizers have done a very, very good job of convincing | everyone in the U.S. that everyone needs an all-singing, all-dancing | megacomputer just to balance their checkbooks. THAT is what p*sses me | off. And then you NeXT types come in and perpetuate the myth. Well sure, not everyone needs the latest things but I prefer to blow MY money (I'm not rich (!!) nor am I a "typical" user... CS major and dedicated techno-freak) on the best stuff I can afford. I set a fairly high standard for my "minimal" and I am usually very satisfied with my purchases for years to come because of that. For example, I can't afford a NeXT because I would need about $2500 more than the ~$3500 edu price to make it comparably functional to my SE/30. [1] (Functional does not imply performance in this case but rather software ability.) More to the point, I would be very careful about recommending minimal computers to people who don't have much experience with that particular class of system. For a machine with an interface like the Mac, I think the Plus/Classic level with 2MB and 40MB hard disk is minimal. VERY minimal. If you scrimp in one area (RAM, disk), you only make the other parts less useful. With system 7, the Mac will become more complex and the hardware requirements will go up as well. The 68000 Macs are dead end machines. IF they do what you need now and will work for you in the future (ie, you can upgrade them enough or buy another), then that's great, go ahead and buy one. [2] The RAM limitations are starting to pinch a lot of people and the lack of a slot (Classic) is always painful when you find you need that that little "extra" like a larger monitor. Sys 7 will up memory requirements a bit and remember that MultiFinder is no longer optional so that 4MB maximum RAM has a large chunk reserved for the System and Finder. melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger): | By the way, you are also wrong(IMHO) about people switching to System | 7.0. I think most people will switch. Isn't that the reason Apple is | shipping most Macs with 2 megs of RAM and a 40MB hard drive? They | want you to switch. I do wish Apple would ship machines with 2.88MB | floppy drives, then a 2 floppy system might be feasible again. PLEASE don't get a Mac to run modern software without a reasonable hard disk!!! Ditto for 2+MB of RAM. A campus lab here has made many many people think that Macs are REALLY slow. Why? No hard disk. I know they'd be much much faster with just a small hard disk. Ditto for RAM. It's cheap enough that you shouldn't scrimp. Floppies are too slow and to small to use for primary disk space. [3] I wish Apple didn't have to force people to get hard disks and RAM with the machines by bundling them at outrageous cost (ie, let us get a stripped Mac and call up the mail order houses to flesh it out) but too many people don't get a reasonable machine otherwise. (Note that this appears to be happening with the low-end NeXT setup. People buy the stripped machine for standalone use and get mad that so much is missing...) Remember, just because you see an ad for a low cost Mac and the dealer will sell you it for $XX, chances are the one you want/need is going to be significantly higher priced, just like a new car. Look to used machines for really low cost Macs. [4] Of course, your mileage may vary. I just want everone to be happy. "Is that so wrong?" =============== [1] My SE/30 = 40MB hd + 5MB RAM (RAM was at the right price...) [2] I would recommend a used SE or Classic. The SE has a slot, the other is mighty popular so add in boards should be numerous. [3] The 10 Macs in that lab are still used much more than the 30 PCs with VGA color, xxMB hard disks, and 286's. :-)] [4] I never could figure out the line between want and need. :-) -- |_ /| | Robert Minich | |\'o.O' | Oklahoma State University| "I'm not discouraging others from using |=(___)= | minich@d.cs.okstate.edu | their power of the pen, but mine will | U | - "Ackphtth" | continue to do the crossword." M. Ho
macman@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Dennis H Lippert) (02/19/91)
In article <1991Feb17.002722.18106@unx2.ucc.okstate.edu> minich@unx2.ucc.okstate.edu (Robert Minich) writes: > >Well sure, not everyone needs the latest things but I prefer to blow >MY money (I'm not rich (!!) nor am I a "typical" user... CS major and >dedicated techno-freak) on the best stuff I can afford. I set a fairly ^^^^^^^^^^ I'd hope that you'd buy a true-blue IBM over a clone then. > More to the point, I would be very careful about recommending minimal >computers to people who don't have much experience with that particular >class of system. For a machine with an interface like the Mac, I think >the Plus/Classic level with 2MB and 40MB hard disk is minimal. VERY >minimal. If you scrimp in one area (RAM, disk), you only make the other >parts less useful. It depends... with a small word processor (WriteNow), and a FDHD (ie. the base Classic) you caould do very well. There'd be room for inits & stuff too. It's be slow, but it'd be USEABLE. > > With system 7, the Mac will become more complex and the hardware >requirements will go up as well. The 68000 Macs are dead end machines. >IF they do what you need now and will work for you in the future (ie, >you can upgrade them enough or buy another), then that's great, go ahead >and buy one. [2] The RAM limitations are starting to pinch a lot of >people and the lack of a slot (Classic) is always painful when you find >you need that that little "extra" like a larger monitor. Sys 7 will up >memory requirements a bit and remember that MultiFinder is no longer >optional so that 4MB maximum RAM has a large chunk reserved for the >System and Finder. Personal thought... is system 6.0.x really several times more useful than, say, system 3.2? It uses that much more space. And, for the record, my Classics has yet to complain about a 3.2 boot. > >[3] The 10 Macs in that lab are still used much more than the 30 PCs > with VGA color, xxMB hard disks, and 286's. :-)] Amen... you oughta see what a lab with 30 pluses can draw... 30 users, plus a 10 person waiting list. Meanwhile, the 286 monochrome Zeniths (20) may have 5 users at one time! Of course there's a room full of PS/2 Model 50's up the block,and Digital 386 clones a bit farther... Dennis Lippert - macman@unix.cis.pitt.edu (a consultant who must deal with PC-users and Zeniths at the same time..augh!