kpmiller@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Kent P Miller) (02/04/91)
If I read one more article about the Next, I'm gonna puke. This is a macintosh news group, I read it to get news about MACINTOSH. If you want to hear about the wonderful Next, read comp.sys.mac.next. If you want to post about how stupid I and probably half a million other people were in the past few months who bought a Mac, that's a different story. :) Please, find another place to talk about this. KenT -- ----------------------- Kent Miller KENT@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu Bitnet -> KENT@uokucsvx
ez002644@deneb.ucdavis.edu (Eric W. Douglas) (02/05/91)
From article <1991Feb4.145736.25925@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu>, by kpmiller@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Kent P Miller): > If I read one more article about the Next, I'm gonna puke. > > This is a macintosh news group, I read it to get news about MACINTOSH. If > you want to hear about the wonderful Next, read comp.sys.mac.next. If you > want to post about how stupid I and probably half a million other people > were in the past few months who bought a Mac, that's a different story. > :) > > Please, find another place to talk about this. > > KenT > > Kent Miller > KENT@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu > Bitnet -> KENT@uokucsvx I agree with Kent. BUT, before some offended person flames me, let me explain myself. I am Computer Science student who uses a variety of different machines. At least once a month I do work on Silicon Graphics personal Iris workstations, DECstations, Sun workstations, Nexts, and on Macs. I have a mac at home, because not having a TCP/IP connection wouldn't work great with a Next. (At least in my opinion.) Besides, I bought a used mac for nowhere near what I could get my hands on a Next machine for. Ok, on to the explaination. I like cartain things about all of the computers that I have mentioned above, BUT, I read comp.sys.mac.***** because I WANT TO READ ABOUT MACS. When I want to read about Nexts, I read the Next users newsgroup. When I want to read about Suns, ... etc. The reason we have seperate newsgroups rather than lumping them into one large chaotic mess, is, to alleviate the problem of sorting through all of the articles that you don't want to read. When I am in comp.sys.mac.***, I don't want to read an article better suited for comp.sys.next. Just my extremely humble opinion. Eric W. Douglas * internet: ericd@csufres.csufresno.edu Dept. of Computer Science * ez002644@deneb.ucdavis.edu California State University, Fresno *
andrew@jhereg.osa.com (Andrew C. Esh) (02/10/91)
How about if we creat comp.sys.comparison for this discussion? Either that or adopt net ettiquette that requires the sender to take the discussion to EMail, or post it only in the newsgroup of the machine he/she is speaking in favor of. I'm tired of weeding out MINE vs YOURS arguments. I read Mac and NeXT, but I don't like to see them compared, mainly because I have reasons for using each. I don't need to be told one is better than the other. Tastes are individual, and mine don't need company to be worthwhile to ME. By the way, I am a ZZ Top fan, and I think all other Rock and Roll bands should be Outlawed, so nobody has to listen to the rest of the crud that they put out. :-) :-) :-) flames to EMail andrew
saaf@joker.optics.rochester.edu (Lennart Saaf) (02/12/91)
I think the attempt to stifle criticism of the Mac in this group is a shame. We can be religious in our affection for the Mac, but that's no reason to be a religion and claim that those who don't believe in the Mac will burn in hell for all eternity. I like the Mac but there are some things I hate about it. If you think your computer is better than the Mac in some area, POST IT HERE for Bob's sake. If you don't have a computer but think that the Mac sucks anyway, POST IT HERE. If you have something to say about the Mac, good or bad, POST IT HERE! "Now that I have my APPLE, I comprehend COST ACCOUNTING!" --Zippy -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Len Saaf, The Institute of Optics, Univ. of Rochester, Rochester, NY | | Internet: saaf@joker.optics.rochester.edu Bitnet: SAAF@UOROPT | ------------------------------------------------------------------------
awessels@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Allen Wessels) (02/13/91)
In article <SAAF.91Feb12104742@joker.optics.rochester.edu> saaf@joker.optics.rochester.edu (Lennart Saaf) writes: >Mac will burn in hell for all eternity. I like the Mac but there are >some things I hate about it. If you think your computer is better than >the Mac in some area, POST IT HERE for Bob's sake. If you don't have a >computer but think that the Mac sucks anyway, POST IT HERE. If you >have something to say about the Mac, good or bad, POST IT HERE! Why can't YOU go to THEIR newsgroup and ask them about their machine??? Just start out your post with "My Mac can't do X and I hate it." They'll drool all over you and laud the advantages of their Y computer. If you have criticisms about the Mac, then post it in the Mac groups. If you want to know how you can do X on the Mac, then post it in the Mac groups. If you want to know what some other computer can do subscribe to comp.sys.othercomputer.
graham@ug.cs.dal.ca (Michael Graham) (02/13/91)
In article <SAAF.91Feb12104742@joker.optics.rochester.edu> saaf@joker.optics.roc hester.edu (Lennart Saaf) writes: >Mac will burn in hell for all eternity. I like the Mac but there are >some things I hate about it. If you think your computer is better than >the Mac in some area, POST IT HERE for Bob's sake. If you don't have a >computer but think that the Mac sucks anyway, POST IT HERE. If you >have something to say about the Mac, good or bad, POST IT HERE! Here Here!! I agree fully. Mac magazines regularily report on what is going on in the NeXT world and do comparisons - the same should be done here. Here's a question - why can't a $10000 IIfx format a floppy in the background? Is that too much to ask? Why does the control panel take 10-15 seconds to appear on my Mac Plus (4 meg - 64k, ram cache). I think the Mac is a great machine, but it has a bunch of annoying "features" like the ones above that are REALLY irritating. mike -- | Michael Graham | We're two doctors...two big doctors - | | graham@ug.cs.dal.ca | we're not imposters. - Woody Allen | | mgraham@ac.dal.ca | Sleeper |
ez002644@deneb.ucdavis.edu (Eric W. Douglas) (02/13/91)
On the NeXT vs Mac, or Mac vs the world, etc... I by no means claim that the mac is THE best computer to have, but it might be the best for some people. As far as comparing different platforms in this group, well, I think that is a good idea. My spiff is with those who insist on waging the flame wars with "My mainframe is better than your micro...." "My Amiga has "truuuuuueeeeeeee multitasking, your mac can't do that!" This kind of rhetoric is useless, and gives no insight into different computer worlds, where some of us mac nuts might be interested. I am all for different platform discussion, but as far as the original reason for this post, I must agree with the original poster, if NeXT lovers want to spead the all encompassing glory of their machines, then let them do it in their own newsgroup. Eric W. Douglas * i'net: ericd@csufres.csufresno.edu Dept. of Computer Science * ericd@yosemite.csufresno.edu California State University, Fresno * ez002644@deneb.ucdavis.edu
Garance_Drosehn@mts.rpi.edu (02/13/91)
In article <1991Feb12.223252.23864@cs.dal.ca> graham@ug.cs.dal.ca (Michael Graham) writes: ...(skipping along)... >Here Here!! I agree fully. Mac magazines regularily report on what is going >on in the NeXT world and do comparisons - the same should be done here. > The Mac magazines use the right titles for their discussions. If the article is about Next, it will say so in the subject. They will not have an article titled "68040 for the Mac?" which concentrates on the NeXT vs Mac debate. NeXT fans will promote their favorite machine no matter what the topic of the subject thread is. This means that readers constantly have to filter out the articles, no matter what the subject is. This is a waste of time, especially for people who simply can not buy a NeXT machine right now even if they wanted to. They also keep a sense of Mac-balance. Mac people are interested in what good-old (or bad-old) Steve Jobs is up to, but the magazine knows that people do not buy their Mac magazine simply to read about NeXT. There are times when the non-Mac traffic in this newsgroup exceeds the mac-related traffic (that's probably not true at the moment, but it does happen). - Garance_Drosehn@mts.rpi.edu
minich@unx2.ucc.okstate.edu (Robert Minich) (02/13/91)
by saaf@joker.optics.rochester.edu (Lennart Saaf): > I think the attempt to stifle criticism of the Mac in this group is a > shame. We can be religious in our affection for the Mac, but that's no > reason to be a religion and claim that those who don't believe in the > Mac will burn in hell for all eternity. I like the Mac but there are > some things I hate about it. If you think your computer is better than > the Mac in some area, POST IT HERE for Bob's sake. If you don't have a > computer but think that the Mac sucks anyway, POST IT HERE. If you > have something to say about the Mac, good or bad, POST IT HERE! Bad idea. How about having all those who want to flame away until all our machines are pushing up daisies send their annoying "discussions" to: > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > | Len Saaf, The Institute of Optics, Univ. of Rochester, Rochester, NY | > | Internet: saaf@joker.optics.rochester.edu Bitnet: SAAF@UOROPT | > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I'm sure he'll be very happy. If Len really wants to see what he asks for, I suggest a new alt hierarchy: "alt.comp.sys.XXXXX.sucks". I'd be curious to see where the most posts come from. :-) -- |_ /| | Robert Minich | |\'o.O' | Oklahoma State University| "I'm not discouraging others from using |=(___)= | minich@d.cs.okstate.edu | their power of the pen, but mine will | U | - "Ackphtth" | continue to do the crossword." M. Ho
breidenb@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Oliver Breidenbach) (02/13/91)
hi there,
shure enough it's time to get annoyed by all these "I've got a better computer
than you, whatever arguments you'll have" discussions. That's suitable for
some comp.sys.home.computer.kiddie newsgroups, but not for us serious
mac users. If you want to have "TheBest" computer, then buy a BIG box,
a Cray Y/MP, a IBM 6000, a NeXT, some Macs, an amiga and a 50 MHZ 486 machine
and try to work out a operating system which includes mach, mac_os, X-windows
NFS, AppleTalk, TCP/IP aso. and put it all together into the box. By that
time you'll be $1 Billion down and the "solution" won't solve any
specific problem at all. So I suggest not to discuss what computer is better,
but help to work on solutions for problems. Maybe we can discuss improvements
to the systems but once and for all stop that stupid "haha, but MY computer
does have all this". It really doesn't solve the problems people might have.
And it doesn't make life any easier.
Have fun, anyway.
Oliver.
Ps. we should have a comp.sys.what_is_the_best_computer newsgroup for
those who really need it.
--- Oliver Breidenbach, CSD, Technische Universitaet, Muenchen
E-Mail: Oliver.Breidenbach@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.deingemar@isy.liu.se (Ingemar Ragnemalm) (02/13/91)
saaf@joker.optics.rochester.edu (Lennart Saaf) writes: >I think the attempt to stifle criticism of the Mac in this group is a >shame. We can be religious in our affection for the Mac, but that's no >reason to be a religion and claim that those who don't believe in the >Mac will burn in hell for all eternity. I like the Mac but there are >some things I hate about it. If you think your computer is better than >the Mac in some area, POST IT HERE for Bob's sake. If you don't have a >computer but think that the Mac sucks anyway, POST IT HERE. If you >have something to say about the Mac, good or bad, POST IT HERE! Very important side note: If you *don't* have anything to say (which is the case with *most* articles I've seen in the flame wars computer vs computer) then SHUT UP! We have heard it all before. "My computer can do more than yours for less money". "My computer is faster than yours." Etc, etc. We know what drawbacks the Mac has, thank you. We don't need dozens of posting each day (distributed all over the world taking gigabytes of disk space) telling that over and over again. If you have something *NEW* to say, post it where it fits. Yes, please, a comp.comparisons would be great. I would unsubscribe immediately, of course (and resubscribe when I'm going to buy a new computer). -- Ingemar Ragnemalm Dept. of Electrical Engineering ...!uunet!mcvax!enea!rainier!ingemar .. University of Linkoping, Sweden ingemar@isy.liu.se
gourdol@imag.imag.fr (Gourdol Arnaud) (02/14/91)
Sure, this stupid war about "my menus are longer than yours" is... stupid. However, we shall admit that the Mac is not perfect (and no other computer is perfect either). It's always difficult to admit, specially when NeXT or Amiga owners come and tell you "yeah, but my box does it all" because we don't want to look like dumbs for buying a Mac. The Mac IS a great computer. It's main feature is (IMHO) "ease of use". But often things can be improved, for example: * Background formatting of disks * Variable size heaps under MultiFinder * The possibility to change the printer in the Print dialog box without leaving it to go to the chooser (as NeXT does). * ... There are many other topics. They can be identified by the fact that naive users who have never used computers before just ask you "But WHY does it work like this" (of course PC users are so used to illogical tricks that nothing puzzle them). I thik that by identifying what we are missing we can oblige Apple to make changes and improve the Mac. Arnaud.-- /======================//==========================================/ / Arnaud Gourdol. // On the Netland: Gourdol@imag.fr / / // Via AppleLink: Gourdol@imag.fr@INTERNET# / /======================//==========================================/
saaf@joker.optics.rochester.edu (Lennart Saaf) (02/14/91)
From: Gary Greene <garyg@zip.Convergent.COM> Subject: Re: If I read one more Next article. . . Date: Tue, 12 Feb 91 15:57:03 PST In comp.sys.mac.misc you write: >I think the attempt to stifle criticism of the Mac in this group is a >shame. We can be religious in our affection for the Mac, but that's no >reason to be a religion and claim that those who don't believe in the >Mac will burn in hell for all eternity. I like the Mac but there are >some things I hate about it. If you think your computer is better than >the Mac in some area, POST IT HERE for Bob's sake. If you don't have a >computer but think that the Mac sucks anyway, POST IT HERE. If you >have something to say about the Mac, good or bad, POST IT HERE! Len -- Basically I agree with you, BUT, I am (emphasize AM) interested in an 040 for my Mac IIx and I'm getting very tired of every bloody post with that sort of title being a NeXT vs Mac flame. I mean, how about just some occaisional data about the REAL subject. It might even be interesting to open something like that and see something about someone, anyone, who has acquired such a beast and what their experiences with it are. True, anyone who HAS such an upgrade probably has a beta accelerator card or a card that pre-empts the 030 on the motherboard, but there really, truely, are such cards out there. I saw several at MacWorld Expo in San Francisco. As a graphic artist who does 3D simulation and animation, this is an important subject for me, and these flames are burying my access to some worthwhile data. My server has something wrong with it, so I can't post to register my request with the community. As you can see, I can read news and e-mail quite easily; just the post function is busted. If you might be so kind to repost this I would be greatful. Gary Greene Unisys/Convergent Technology San Jose, California garyg@convergent.com -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Len Saaf, The Institute of Optics, Univ. of Rochester, Rochester, NY | | Internet: saaf@joker.optics.rochester.edu Bitnet: SAAF@UOROPT | ------------------------------------------------------------------------
saaf@joker.optics.rochester.edu (Lennart Saaf) (02/15/91)
In article <1991Feb13.065702.21201@unx2.ucc.okstate.edu> minich@unx2.ucc.okstate.edu (Robert Minich) writes: > > Bad idea. How about having all those who want to flame away until all > our machines are pushing up daisies send their annoying "discussions" > to: > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > | Len Saaf, The Institute of Optics, Univ. of Rochester, Rochester, NY | > > | Internet: saaf@joker.optics.rochester.edu Bitnet: SAAF@UOROPT | > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > I'm sure he'll be very happy. If Len really wants to see what he asks for, > I suggest a new alt hierarchy: "alt.comp.sys.XXXXX.sucks". I'd be curious > to see where the most posts come from. :-) Time for your pill, Robert. Thanks for your helpful suggestion. I find it interesting, though not totally surprising, that you feel that people flaming the Mac in this group should not do so, while at the same time you flame me personally in this group. Just because you find a "discussion" annoying, doesn't mean that it shouldn't have been posted. I find your call to flood my mailbox annoying, but I think you should be a able to post whatever you like. Now, getting back to the Mac... I'm sure that the Mac/NeXT war (if that's what you want to call it) in this mac group has a counterpart in an IBM group, an IBM/Mac war. The success of the Mac is due to people being fired up about it. "Flaming" PCs is the duty of every stout-hearted Mac devotee. :-) Now, I know, some people drone on and on and say nasty things like "the Mac sucks," but, come on, it's a computer not your mother fer crissakes. My point is this: if you have something to say about the Mac, good or bad, then comp.sys.mac.misc is an appropriate place to post it. If you get heartburn from reading nasty or, god forbid, boring news articles, then you should either pour youself a whiskey and read some Plato or join a right-wing political party. Len -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Len Saaf, The Institute of Optics, Univ. of Rochester, Rochester, NY | | Internet: saaf@joker.optics.rochester.edu Bitnet: SAAF@UOROPT | ------------------------------------------------------------------------
melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) (02/20/91)
In article <18039@imag.imag.fr> gourdol@imag.imag.fr (Gourdol Arnaud) writes:
Sure, this stupid war about "my menus are longer than yours" is... stupid.
However, we shall admit that the Mac is not perfect (and no other
computer is perfect either). It's always difficult to admit,
specially when NeXT or Amiga owners come and tell you "yeah, but
my box does it all" because we don't want to look like dumbs
for buying a Mac.
I didn't realize that the NeXT discussion had degenerated that much.
(for those who weren't following the debate, it didn't)
The Mac IS a great computer. It's main feature is (IMHO) "ease of use".
But often things can be improved, for example:
* Background formatting of disks
* Variable size heaps under MultiFinder
* The possibility to change the printer in the Print dialog box
without leaving it to go to the chooser (as NeXT does).
* ...
Any computer can always be improved. It's just some of them are
starting to show their age(early 80's technology). BTW, your wish
list can be fulfilled if you buy a NeXT.
Hey everyone, it's only been 2 years since the SE/30 was released. I
found an article about it in a March 1989 issue of MacWorld that I
have at home. Does anyone remember how much it costs?(anyone, anyone)
$5000. Let's here it again folks. The NeXT is too damn expensive!
-Mike