[comp.sys.mac.misc] Mac IIsi questions

fleckens@plains.NoDak.edu (Clint Fleckenstein) (02/21/91)

I am looking at buying a IIsi...my problem is deciding between a
2/40 configuration and a 5/80.  The reason I have doubts is price
difference.  My question is this:

Will I need the extra memory?  Will it affect performance?  How
large ARE Mac applications?

Will I need that much hard drive space?  How much space do normal
Mac applications take?

After 7 years with a //c, I deserve something like this :)  Please
help me make the correct decision.

By the way:  My uses will be telecommunication, graphics, word
processing, and games.  NO number crunching, possible use of 
SoftPC.

I *do* wish I could get an Apple// emulator...I have a LOT of //
software I'm familiar with (7 years' worth :)

-------------------------------------------------------------
Clint Fleckenstein        	fleckens@plains.nodak.edu
Mandan, ND 58554                uunet!plains!fleckens
(701)-663-2127                  fleckens@PLAINS (Bitnet)
DoD #5150                       NDCWL #2121

STREATER@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (415) (02/21/91)

I just bought a IIsi - am very happy with it. You will need 5mbytes rather
than 2 but I merely looked in the comics and paid $49/mbytes for memory. I
installed it with *no* tools and no trouble. In addition, I have not seen any
of these problems which people allege occur with the IIsi.  That is probably
cheaper than Apple memory.

As far as disk is concerned, start with the 40 mbyte and expand later. Disk is
constantly going down in price, to the extent that the correct approach is to
run with (nearly) full disks. No point in buyiong extra space that will be
cheaper when you buy it later (if you need it). Sounds like you don't know
that you will need it, so why not wait. I see that Jasmine has these cute
litte cigarette-packet sized drives that plug into the back of your SCSI port
and don't need an external power supply (the SCSI port supplies it). At
present they have only a 20mbyte for $399 but larger drives are supposed to be
in the offing.

josh@athena.mit.edu (Josh Hartmann) (02/21/91)

In article <91051.200412STREATER@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, STREATER@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (415) writes:
|> I just bought a IIsi - am very happy with it. You will need 5mbytes rather
|> than 2 but I merely looked in the comics and paid $49/mbytes for memory. I
|> installed it with *no* tools and no trouble. In addition, I have not seen any
|> of these problems which people allege occur with the IIsi.  That is probably
|> cheaper than Apple memory.

I see you like voiding your warranty! Before you could wait 90 days, but now,
you're ruining a nice 1-year warranty.

|> As far as disk is concerned, start with the 40 mbyte and expand later. Disk is
|> constantly going down in price, to the extent that the correct approach is to
|> run with (nearly) full disks. No point in buyiong extra space that will be
|> cheaper when you buy it later (if you need it). Sounds like you don't know
|> that you will need it, so why not wait.

How much lower do you think disks can go? Not too much, methinks.

|> I see that Jasmine has these cute
|> litte cigarette-packet sized drives that plug into the back of your SCSI port
|> and don't need an external power supply (the SCSI port supplies it). At
|> present they have only a 20mbyte for $399 but larger drives are supposed to be
|> in the offing.

Jasmine's service is still abysmal. You are better off getting an APS
Q80 or Q105 for about the same price. Faster, more reliable mechanism, too.

-- 

Josh Hartmann             |     ___   ___     | ``the imagination is like an
josh@athena.mit.edu       |    |   | |   |    | engine that can work on many
mit-eddie!mit-athena!josh |   /  |  |  |  \   | different fuels: but it must
BITNET: your gateway      |  /  / \   / \  \  | be powered, and sex, properly
DISCLAIMER:  My parents   | |___| |___| |___| | used, is a fuel of high 
     already claimed me   |   MAINE HOCKEY!   | potency''       -- PROPAGANDA

strange@sprite.berkeley.edu (Steve Strange) (02/22/91)

In article <8456@plains.NoDak.edu> fleckens@plains.NoDak.edu (Clint Fleckenstein) writes:
>I am looking at buying a IIsi...my problem is deciding between a
>2/40 configuration and a 5/80.  The reason I have doubts is price
>difference.  My question is this:
>
>Will I need the extra memory?  Will it affect performance?  How
>large ARE Mac applications?
>

If you want to run Multifinder, eg, a number of applications simultaneously,
I would highly recommend having 5 meg of memory.  The IIsi uses system
RAM for the screen buffer, so with 2 meg you really have at most 1 meg
of usable application memory.  A nice fast machine like the IIsi deserves
5 meg.

>Will I need that much hard drive space?  How much space do normal
>Mac applications take?

You would probably be OK with 40 Mb, especially if you are just starting
with a mac.  I had 30 Meg on a Plus for years, and I got by fine.  So,
this is what I would recommend - Get the 2/40, and then upgrade the memory
to 5 Mb yourself (or have a friend do it, it is extremely easy on this
machine, no screws, no boards to remove!)  4 1-meg SIMMs is what you would
need, which can be had for under $200 last I checked.  The difference in
price between the two IIsi configs is like 4 times that, isn't it?  I
bought the 2/40, then upgraded to 5 Mb memory and a 105 Mb disk, total
cost less than the 5/80, and this was university prices.

>I *do* wish I could get an Apple// emulator...I have a LOT of //
>software I'm familiar with (7 years' worth :)

If you really want this, consider the LC.  Not as fast as the IIsi, but
a great way to use your old S/W and use newer Mac S/W as well.  I've never
played with one, but I've heard good things about them.  And they're
reasonably priced, considerably less than the IIsi.

		Steve Strange
		UC Berkeley

frank@mnetor.UUCP (Frank Kolnick) (02/22/91)

In article <1991Feb21.145353.29719@athena.mit.edu> josh@athena.mit.edu (Josh Hartmann) writes:
)In article <91051.200412STREATER@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, STREATER@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (415) writes:
)|> I just bought a IIsi - am very happy with it. You will need 5mbytes rather
)|> than 2 but I merely looked in the comics and paid $49/mbytes for memory. I
)|> installed it with *no* tools and no trouble. ...
)
)I see you like voiding your warranty! Before you could wait 90 days, but now,
)you're ruining a nice 1-year warranty.
)
)|> As far as disk is concerned, start with the 40 mbyte and expand later. Disk is
)|> constantly going down in price, to the extent that the correct approach is to
)|> run with (nearly) full disks. ...

I doubt if adding simms to an si voids the warranty. The case just pops off
the si. When I bought my si, I also bought memory from the same dealer.
The dealer assumed I would install it myself, to save a few bucks.

Anyway, I went for the 2/40 version for two reasons: (i) I could add the
memory myself at a lower cost, and (ii) I prefer to have an external disk,
in case the Mac itself dies. (This also made it easier to transfer my files
from my old SE.) So, I ended up with 5MB of RAM, an internal 40MB disk (on
which I keep only applications and fonts -- lots of fonts), and an external
170MB disk, which I selected because it was fast, very quiet, and had a
high MTBF. Basically I prefer the modular approach. I also added a portrait
monitor (Apple's).

This set-up meets my needs perfectly. I use the Mac almost exclusively for
technical documentation. After living with an SE/20 + external 40MB disk,
my advice is: you can't have too much disk space. Documents and illustrations
eat up space, and with room to spare I can let FrameMaker (for example)
make automatic back-ups for me. (FM also pretty much demands 5MB. Even on
the SE, when I only used MS Word and QuarkXpress, I couldn't get by with
less than 4.5MB).

-- 
Frank Kolnick,
Basis Computer Systems Inc.
UUCP: {allegra, linus}!utzoo!mnetor!frank

STREATER@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (415) (02/23/91)

From my Macintosh Reference manual (page 287), supplied with my IIsi:

"Warning: RAM expansion on the main circuit board should only be done by an
authorized Apple representative or another qualified technician. Modification
or expansion by anyone except qualified personnel voids the equipment's
warranty and could cause damage."

I consider myself to be "another qualified technician", since it is part of my
official duties at SLAC to be able to perform modifications of this nature
(e.g. installing RAM, replacing EPROMs, replacing circuit boards and the like,
being aware of any problems involved such as static, bending pins on chips
etc).

mack@intvax.UUCP (Michael J. McDonald) (02/24/91)

From article <8456@plains.NoDak.edu>, by fleckens@plains.NoDak.edu (Clint Fleckenstein):
> I am looking at buying a IIsi...my problem is deciding between a
> 2/40 configuration and a 5/80.  The reason I have doubts is price
> difference.  My question is this:
> 
...
I bought the IIsi 2/40 version because 1) while an 80 meg disk is
nice, it takes quite a lot to fill it up, 2) It is easy to upgrade
the amount of memory to 5 meg (less than $200 by mail order), 3) the
price difference between configurations was very high compared to
street values for similar devices, and 4) If I ever did need the
extra disk space, I could purchase an external hard disk and have a
better choice of price/performance.

You might choose something different if you can get a deal that
doesn't have such a bad price/performance ratio (look at the cost of
upgrading after buying vs buying, figure that you won't have to get
a bigger drive for a year or more (unless you are realy hacking) and
that you will need a memory upgrade right away), then check the
price advantages.

john@newave.UUCP (John A. Weeks III) (02/24/91)

In article <8456@plains.NoDak.edu> fleckens@plains.NoDak.edu (Clint Fleckenstein) writes:
> I am looking at buying a IIsi...my problem is deciding between a
> 2/40 configuration and a 5/80.

Get the 5/80.  The memory is especially nice for multi-finder, and
you will fill up the disk before you know what is happening.  All
those init, fonts, and toys....

> Will I need the extra memory?  Will it affect performance?  How
> large ARE Mac applications?

If you get color, you will find that color paint & draw applications
will want a lot of memory.  Otherwise, expect to use 1 Meg for the
finder, then 1 Meg for each additional application that you have
running.

> Will I need that much hard drive space?  How much space do normal
> Mac applications take?

My "System Folder" is 6.8 Megbytes, and my "System Stuff" (apple file
exchange, disinfectant, misc utilities, apple utilities) is 9 Meg.
If you trade PD and shareware programs, you will quickly fill the
space.  Most applications nowdays come on 1 or more 800K disks.
Both MacWrite and UltraPaint take 3 disks each.

> By the way:  My uses will be telecommunication, graphics, word
> processing, and games.  NO number crunching, possible use of 
> SoftPC.

Other than for graphics, you will find that the IIsi will run up
to 5 times faster if you turn off the color, and up to 2 times faster
if you switch form 256 colors down to 8 colors.

Here are some PD apps that you might want to get:
	Kermit		Stuffit		Compactor
	McSink		BinHex		miniWriter
	Disinfectant

Here are a few commercial toys that you will want to check out:
	After Dark	ClickChange

> I *do* wish I could get an Apple// emulator...I have a LOT of //
> software I'm familiar with (7 years' worth :)

The Apple card will not work with the IIsi, but there is a program
called "][ In A Mac".  It ran about 1/2 speed on my Mac Plus, so
I would assume that it would kick butt on a IIsi.  I ran Appleworks
and Bolderdash on my Mac Plus.  Too cool.  Look for ads in the back
of MacUser or MacWeek.

-john-

-- 
===============================================================================
John A. Weeks III               (612) 942-6969               john@newave.mn.org
NeWave Communications                 ...uunet!rosevax!tcnet!wd0gol!newave!john
===============================================================================

kiran@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (Kiran Wagle) (03/03/91)

>If you change your own SIMMs and later develop a problem, when you
take
>it into the dealer and he declares you improperly expanded your RAM

So put your old SIMMs back in, already! Don't tell me--you managed to
find someone to buy 256K SIMMs... and the Brooklyn Bridge, too!

--
	...kiran
		__________kiran@copper.ucs.indiana.edu________(812) 331-1710

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made reference to new taxes that will help put Massachusetts 'back in
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