mikef@bbs.acs.unc.edu (Michael Freedburg) (03/19/91)
phil@brahms.amd.com (Phil Ngai) writes, that win has Excel 3.0, what does the mac have, implying that windows now have a killer spreadsheet application while mac users still rely on Multiplan or something. Excel 3.0 will be out for the Macintosh in very short order and will provide all of the features found in the windows version. I am stunned at Phil Ngai's assertion that Word for Windows is much better than the Macintosh version. How so? There are a number of features in the Macintosh version that are differently implemented in Word for Windows and rarely as well. Take the Define Styles dialog box, not the easiest thing on the Macintosh and even more cumbersome to use in Word for Windows. What precisely makes Word for Windows better? The fact that it is a windows app? Please... This entire matter is way out of hand. Everyone knows better than the hardware and software people how it all should be done. My feeling is, if you are such a *&^%$ know-it-all, why don't you design, produce, and market this be-all and end-all computer? It is so easy to point to flaws, but much harder to correct them and even much more difficult to design a product that is somehow totally error-free and suffers in no way from any compromises in terms of design or pricing or performance. Lessing countered the argument against the critic by claiming that one did not need to be a cook to know that a soup is too salty, but he also knew that recognizing the fault does not make one a cook. Apple, Microsoft, IBM, DEC are **businesses** and not saints. On the matter of how intuitive it is to use a Macintosh, it is not ever been a matter of totally hiding the OS from the user, but making the OS much more alike to other operating environments with which the user might be familiar. Take the C:\> prompt. To what does that refer? A disk, a command line, what? A new user cannot possibly deduce from it to what it refers. Now take the disk icon that actually looks like a floppy. It may not be obvious which disk it is or where that disk may be, but there is rarely any confusion about the referent of that object. It refers to a disk. The trash can is a clear and meaningful icon to ***any*** of the beginners I have taught. The C:\> prompt is not. Just for reference: I do hands-on training in DOS, Macintosh, and Unix at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, as well as User Services and have almost 6 years of experience in using and training under my belt. Flame me all you want, but leave me out of this. mikef@samba.acs.unc.edu
phil@brahms.amd.com (Phil Ngai) (03/21/91)
In article <3016@beguine.UUCP> mikef@bbs.acs.unc.edu (Michael Freedburg) writes: |I am stunned at Phil Ngai's assertion that Word for Windows is |much better than the Macintosh version. How so? There are a I just started using the tiny Mac and so far I see that Mac Word doesn't have the ribbon (it does have a ruler) and doesn't have fields. The mail merge stuff feels like I've gone back to Word for DOS. As for speed, comparing an SE/30 (with a 512 pixel line) to a 20 MHz 386 (with an 800 pixel line) I will grant the Mac seems perhaps a tiny bit faster, but not by much and it's doing a lot less work. |This entire matter is way out of hand. Everyone knows better |than the hardware and software people how it all should be |done. My feeling is, if you are such a *&^%$ know-it-all, why |don't you design, produce, and market this be-all and end-all I didn't say I know better than MS. I am saying WinWord seems to be a later and more advanced Word than Mac Word. No doubt Mac Word will catch up eventually. But I believe Windows will receive preferential treatment. |Take the C:\> prompt. To what does that refer? A disk, a command |line, what? A new user cannot possibly deduce from it to what it |refers. |Now take the disk icon that actually looks like a floppy. It may Go ahead and bash DOS. What a waste of time. Do you think there is a single PC user on the planet that doesn't know about Windows? |The trash can is a clear and meaningful |icon to ***any*** of the beginners I have taught. The C:\> Trash can sucks when there's no alternative. Why doesn't the delete key work? How come page up and page down are so inconsistent? Sometimes they work. Sometimes they don't. Very confusing. -- Help! I just got a Macintosh. Anyone got a magnifying glass?
Christopher Tate <CXT105@psuvm.psu.edu> (03/21/91)
In article <1991Mar21.023337.8791@amd.com>, phil@brahms.amd.com (Phil Ngai) says: >As for speed, comparing an SE/30 (with a 512 pixel line) to a 20 MHz >386 (with an 800 pixel line) I will grant the Mac seems perhaps a tiny >bit faster, but not by much and it's doing a lot less work. That's real interesting, IMHO, since the SE/30 is running at 16 MHz, not 20. And I don't buy your comment about how the Mac is doing a lot less work. ------- Christopher Tate | "Mr. Churchill, you're drunk!" | cxt105@psuvm.psu.edu | "Yes madam, and you are ugly. In the {...}!psuvax1!psuvm.bitnet!cxt105 | morning, however, I shall be sober." cxt105@psuvm.bitnet |
phil@brahms.amd.com (Phil Ngai) (03/22/91)
Christopher Tate <CXT105@psuvm.psu.edu> writes: >And I don't buy your comment about how the Mac is doing a lot less work. It has a lot fewer pixels to move. The Mac screen is only 512 pixels across. How many down? 384? I don't know, you probably do. Each pixel is 1 bit. My 386 screen is 800 pixels across by 600 down. Each pixel is 16 colors. -- Help! I just got a Macintosh. Anyone got a magnifying glass?
phil@brahms.amd.com (Phil Ngai) (03/23/91)
claytor@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu (Nelson Claytor) writes: >Fine. So who says you have to use MS software? I feel that there are much No one is forcing me. But I prefer it. As will most people in a mixed office environment where some use PCs and some use Macs. Don't underestimate the power of applications that run on both platforms. >better and more Mac-like options for everything they sell (except possibly Mac-like. Is that supposed to be something I jump at the chance to pay money for? Do I really care at all? (no) >Of course MS is going to develop new versions for Windows first--after >all, they sell it, and they have a vested interest in keeping the market All you Mac bigots say "of course MS supports Windows better", like that didn't matter just because it was obvious. I think you're ignoring a very important advantage MS has: cross platform support. Either that, or you're college students that don't work in large companies on teams. -- Help! I just got a Macintosh. Anyone got a magnifying glass?