werner@rascal.ics.utexas.edu (Werner Uhrig) (03/23/91)
this is a persistent FALSE belief that has repeatedly surfaced over the years. Apple has ... + ...ALWAYS received wholesale prices for machines sold to students (and, well, ours was, and may still be, the store selling more Macs than any other in the world) + ...has received many INVALUABLE and UNTOLD helpful services in return. + ...has spend RELATIVELY LITTLE on adverising in that market + ... the MAC (and possibly Apple) might NOT HAVE SURVIVED the problems of 1985, had it not had the university consortium stores income as the Mac was a complete business failure then and Apple on the ropes in the managerial, engineering and the moral department (and if AT&T had had any sense, they would have bought the whole company then, sitting fat and pretty today, instead of chasing a losing proposition such as pursueing whats-their-name); not to mention the sales and support work done by the many who "evangelized" friends, family and acquaintances *AND* businesses - just because they were enamoured with the Mac and its potential and what the company once stood for (so? haven't you ever been enfatuated without well-founded rhyme and reason? expect no apology from me! ;-) I don't know how typical the local university consortium store and university is, but I believe of ours that: + it is, if not the first, certainly the most profitable operation run by the student union - which, by the way, has always been questioned (and deservedly so, in my opinion) in its benefits to students, not run by (or responsible to) students (but the regents rather, maybe not really surprising, unless you came here used to European conditions, or simply a "trouble-maker" questioning the fairness of "the deal" students get in US universities. + has always seemed TO ME an "obscure outfit run irresponsibly wasting (student?) moneys (the union) and not accountable or responsive to student interests or concerns" (seems like a proper description most anything done by the union) + is as unpleasant and obnoxious to do business with, that it would not last for a week in the open market, was it not for the (nowadays only slight) advantage in price and location it offers to the students, and the limitations put on university departments (which allows them to spend money there with a paper transfer, but makes spending money outside the university - such as 'mail-order; or 'by messenger delivery' - "hell to pay"; ask me about repair horror stories I have heard, or the inability to get third-party add-on alternatives in this 'captured market') In my 18 years of acquaintance I have come to regard the local Student Union (and their micro-computer shop now in its 7th year) as a disgrace in "service and value" (versus what I think they should be). I still remember a period when the student union building was closed for nearly 4 years "for renovations" (which turned out as non-functional and costly as the floors of the University chief executives in many ways) while student HAD TO pay (steadily rising) union fees, possibly for a whole undergraduate carreer of "reduced services". And the Micro-computer store pays slave wages (of course! reflects the regards for an undergraduate around here - and those qualifying for better wouldn't go work there, would they now?), makes you waste HOURS for the simplest of purchases (university employees ABSOLUTELY HATE to have to go there - so does everyone else in their right mind), people there all seem to have an attitude saying "we are doing you a favour" (making you wonder if this is part of indoctrination), while demonstrating mostly only rudimentary knowledge of the stuff they are selling and of the computer market and technology, in general (below even other computer stores in the area) All in all, I am often amazed that Apple and the local university store have survided, wonder how much longer until the competitive market (and many people disgusted by consumer-unfriendly attitude and behavior) and consumer reaction will put both out of business; not that I wish that to happen, I'd much rather see "change for the better" because I believe "better" for students (and customers in general) IS compatible with successfully running a business... ps: this was many years in coming and I'll probably get 'hell to pay' for letting the world know what I think.... think of this as a one-sided opinion that comes out a lot more angrily than if similar sentiments found expressed and were taken into consideration more often. btw: has it often (enough) been stated that students DESERVE to get to buy computers "at cost" or even subsidized by the university or society? After all, changes and advantages have been to their benefit; to wit: 20+ years ago the universities provided me with a multi-million dollar computer to do my study-related work on, no extra-charge, today they nickel-and-dime students to death with "additional computer user fees", "modem use fees", "printer paper fees". "computer literacy courses" fees for courses taught by the computer center, etc, etc. When a student buys a computer and modem and printer to do his work, he relieves the university of providing him with the resources that it used to provide, and it boggles the mind why the consortium store should work on a "for profit" basis rather then having the whole operation heavily subsidized by the university; and I believe even the purchase-price of the computer itself should be subsidized with a interest-free loan and as a tax-deductable expense (I am in danger to go after THAT topic another day...) Not to speak of the social unfairness for students not able to afford to buy their own computers - at every semester deadline I see students "loosing" battling for the insufficient number of public access machines, loosing out when the main-frames crunch to a halt or the "funny-money" funding runs out in their accounts, requiring days, even a week before they can work again - of course, while the deadline affecting their grade has come and gone.... -+- -+- -+- -+- -+- -+- -+- -+- -+- | Internet: werner@rascal.ics.utexas.edu | | werner@cs.utexas.edu | | BITnet: werner@UTXVM | | UUCP: ...!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!werner | -+- -+- -+- -+- -+- -+- -+- -+- -+- Thoguht-of-the-Week: Iraq, Kuweit, Israel, Jordan, US, Russia, Turkey, Mexico, Panama, El Salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Germany, Ireland, India, Burma, China, South Africa, Ethiopia, Chad, Lybia, Marocco.... Hamlet is right: Something is rotten, but not just in Denmark.
bin@primate.wisc.edu (Brain in Neutral) (03/23/91)
Sounds terrible. The Apple operation at UWisc-Madison is run by the computing center, not a student union, and is well-staffed and easy to deal with. Maybe you should move here? -- Paul DuBois dubois@primate.wisc.edu
mkelly@obelix.cs.uoregon.edu (Michael A. Kelly) (03/24/91)
In article <4098@uakari.primate.wisc.edu> bin@primate.wisc.edu writes: > >Sounds terrible. >The Apple operation at UWisc-Madison is run by the computing center, >not a student union, and is well-staffed and easy to deal with. > >Maybe you should move here? > Same goes for U of Oregon. (Although the staff is often not very knowledgeable.) Mike. -- _____________________________________________________________________________ Michael A. Kelly America Online: Michael792 mkelly@cs.uoregon.edu Compu$erve: 73567,1651 _____________________________________________________________________________